11.5 Week Old back to waking twice per night

[shanlbc]

I want to start by saying that BW and these boards have saved my life and I want to thank everyone who offers help and support here.  You are all wonderful.   

I know this sounds like lots of other topics but I don't want it to get lost.

My 11.5 week old DS is waking twice per night.  I know the first is hunger because he wakes at a different time every morning, usually 2:00-3:30am.  He then wakes at 5:30 every morning--I know that one is not hunger because it's always the same time.  I really need him to sleep until 7am since I work at home and need him on a regular routine.  I know I can hold him out with a paci for a little while but I don't think for an hour and a half.  Bad idea, I know, but I have been giving him a 2 oz bottle at 530 to hold him off until 7.  He still takes a full feeding at 7.  If he could make the 10-4 stretch then I think he would stay asleep til 7am.

We tried to cluster feed but it was always a battle because he wasn't really that hungry in the evenings.  I was thinking of adding an ounce to some of his bottles today to see if that helps.  I noticed the past few days that he has been leaving an ounce in a couple of bottles per day, but draining the other two.  He takes anywhere from 4-5oz per bottle, usually 5.  Last week he lasted from the dream feed until 4am two different nights but now he is back to his old routine.

Our routine:
3 hr EASY; 7,10,1,4,7--730 bath; 8pm bed--10pm dream feed.  We are bottle feeding.  His naps are good.  Usually two 1.5 hr naps, some days three, and a catnap around 530 that I sometimes have to wake him up from.

We had been BF but he was not gaining weight (5th %ile at 2 mos after being born in the 75th %ile) so we started supplementing.  After that he didn't want to BF anymore.  Which is OK because he gained 2 lbs in 12 days and is a much happier baby.  We started supplenting 3 weeks ago.

Should the dream feed be at 1030 instead?  Should I try clusterfeeding again?

Thanks to everyone for your help.

[shoemom]

My 12 week old DS is having similar problems as yours. I've tried playing with the DF time (pushing it back a bit further-10:30 instead of 10:00) and he always wakes within 4 hours (definately hungry, and downs a 6 oz bottle). But for a few days he also kept waking at 5:00 or 5:30 and when I thought it was hunger, he would only snack. I know some would suggest W2S but it's a little daunting to try especially if you have a hard time getting him back to sleep. Also some say that it may be his natural biorhythm waking him (he may just be an early bird!). I fought with my LO for those few nights (popping his paci back in to get more sleep, every half hour till 7:00 breakfast ) and then I noticed the other day that he was eating a full 6 oz bottle at practically every meal (he usually eats anywhere from 3-5 oz). I suspect he's gone through a growth spurt and the last 2 nights we've gone back to just one night waking to feed between 3-3:30 am The cluster feeding didn't work for us either, but I'm sure if you add an ounce to every bottle he'll probably take it, and maybe he's just going through a growth spurt as well.

Hopefully someone more experienced will reply as well; I'm a first time mom and would like some other advice too seeing that we're going through similar issues!

Good luck and I'll check back soon

Jessica

[Colin Macs Mom]

I would try the 10:30 DF and see if that helps.

[shanlbc]

I will try tonight.  We had friends over last night and poor DS woke up at 9:15 after an 8pm bedtime unable to settle.  So I had to give him his DF at 9:15 so he could go back to sleep.  He woke at 1:15 (the usual 4 hrs) then again at 530, as usual.  I was too tired to try to hold him out so DH gave him a 2 oz bottle.

Jessica--I see you have a refluxer.  Is your LO on Prevacid by any chance?

[shanlbc]

That makes sense.  I had a cheap black out shade on the window and it fell down (for the third time) a few days ago.  I have been wondering if the light filtering in (even though it is very little) might be waking him.

[Colin Macs Mom]

Jessica--I see you have a refluxer.  Is your LO on Prevacid by any chance?

Nope, Zantac. He's weaned now though and eats all sorts of stuff I never thought he would 

[shoemom]

Just for info, this waking at 5-5:30 dealie many if not most babies do it.  That last few hours of of sleep is very light and they are easily woken.  This is especially true when they are younger and are still taking night feeds.

In regards to this comment Stacy, what would one do then? My LO is going back to this 5:00 am waking habit, and he's not really hungry, but the pacifier isn't working either. If I give him a couple ounces he'll go back to sleep, but then at 7:00 or 7:30 he only takes  3 ounces (usually eats 5-6)! The other issue is that my DH works nightshift and gets home around 4:30 am- I wonder if while my DS is in light sleep, he hears my DH and wakes (last night he wouldn't sleep until my DH went in to see him!)

Another issue lately; my DS is waking before his DF (usually goes back down no problem), but he is now waking earlier and earlier to eat (1:00 am instead of 3:00) He used to go 4 hours at night, now he wants to eat every 2.5 to 3 hours! I'm going a little batty with the lack of sleep, and it's hard doing it alone! Any suggestions???!!!

Thanks,
Jessica

[shanlbc]

You are describing my LO to a tee! He was waking at 4am, then 3am, then 2am, and the last two nights at 1am!  Here is what happened last night:

6:45pm feed
8pm bedtime
10:00pm DF (I want to stretch the DF to 1030/1100 but I am afraid he will wake before so I want to do it gradually)
1:10am wake/feed
5:10am wake, pacifier til 5:40am
5:40am 2oz feed; put him down awake but resettled himself until 7am
7:20am full feed (4.5-5oz)

I have been trying to give him more formula during the day but it does not seem to be having an effect on night sleep.

I have read in BWSAYP one way to break habitual waking is to go in before the usual time and wake them yourself.  I was thinking of going in at 4/430 but I don't think he would go back to sleep w/o a feed.  If I give him a full feed at 400 will I be starting a new habit?  I understand that he still needs a night feed at this age--I just want to get it from two feeds to one feed.

Thanks for your help!

[EllenS]

My lo started this around 12 weeks (along with a host of other situations).  Now she is 17 weeks and has sorted herself out.

This too shall pass.

[shoemom]

Wow!!! I really feel for you Shanlbc Just when you thought the 5:00 am wake was hell, now you've got an earlier and earlier first feed like me! Tonight I'm just going to try our regular routine (feed 7pm, bath, bed 7:30, and DF around 10:30) and see if he starts to wake again b4 the DF. If he does I'll try to get him back to sleep and skip the DF (though the last time I did that he was up at 12:30-a month ago).

Stacy, thanks for all the helpful advice I was thinking my LO was going through a growth spurt, and I may try to cluster feed again. It didn't work for us b4, but that was quite a while ago and I'm desperate to try anything! (but I know to just try 1 change at a time for a week and see how it goes!)

I hope that your night goes better tonight Shanlbc. If not, maybe we'll just have to stick it out for a little while still until our LO's mature!!!

[shanlbc]

Shoemom--Thanks for the support! I guess we're in it for the long haul so we'll just have to stick it out!  I am not complaining--I know a lot of moms have a lot worse problems than this.

Stacy--thanks for the advice.  My LO is not waking before the DF so I will keep it for now.  If I could just get 6 hours out of him (he's done it before) after the DF then I could give him a full feed at 4am and he would hopefully not wake at 5 again.  I know countless moms have hoped and prayed for the same thing--it just sounds so simple!  Ha Ha.


One thing I have noticed about him in the past--his first night time stretch is the longer one.  It varies from 4-6 hours (or at least it used too!).  But the second stretch would always be only 3 hours or so.  Is that typical?  If I skip the DF and get 6 hours out of him, that would be 1am...would he be more likely to sleep another 6 since I hadn't interrupted his sleep pattern?

First I think I am going to try even harder to up his ounces during the day.  Next I am going to try to delay the dream feed by half an hour.  If that doesn't provide some results I am going to consider dropping the dream feed.  The worst case scenario is he wakes up for the dream feed! 

Thanks again for the advice--and I'll look forward to hearing how your night goes too, Shoemom!

[shoemom]

Well this is how last night went; I cluster fed my DS to make sure he was getting enough in him (he is a huge boy and is over 16 lbs!!) and also did the DF. So he ate at 6pm (6oz), had his bath, tried to get him to catnap from 7pm to 7:45 (but he just babbled the whole time), then ate at 8pm (5 oz), went to bed at 8pm (with no problems and without his soother, he doesn't usually take it any more anyway!), and then DF at 10:30 (4oz). This time he didn't wake before the DF or during it.

Needless to say, he was awake and hungry 3 hours after the DF, so I fed him 6oz at 1:30. Up again at 4:40 (another 3 hours later!) and ate 4oz. Both times he was really hungry and wouldn't take his soother when I offered it. Well, then at 7:00am he was up again (I thought maybe he'd sleep in a little bit, but of course not!) and would only eat 2oz, and then proceeded to spit up half of it

My question is: should I continue with the cluster feed and Df for a few more nights? I know he's taken in enough formula (41 ozs yesterday!) and used to take in between 35-38 ozs. Something else that may be affecting his night sleep is his napping. We've been trying to extend his naps as most times he wakes around 45 min. The odd time he can sleep thru on his own, and I have tried wake 2 sleep (with success yesterday, but not today). I know good daysleep leads to good night sleep, so maybe that's contributing to our problems. Unfortunately our routine is now thrown off today, and I ended up feeding him early (9:30 am instead of 10, because he was hungry after spitting up breakfast and waking early from nap!!!)

Well, I'll stop rambling now, I hope your night went better than mine Shanlbc!

Jessica

[EllenS]

Short naps definitely affect night sleep.

My lo also does a longer stretch first, and shorter after.

Sounds to me like he might be getting ready to transition to a 3.5 hour EASY?  It's kindof early, but he's a big feller.  For us it was sortof like entering a tunnel of chaos for a couple of weeks, and she came out the other side with a 3.5 hour EASY.

[shanlbc]

Shoemom--thanks for the encouragement!  We had a similar night but we didn't cluster.  I practically forced him to take 6oz at every bottle yesterday and the end result was that he pretty much refused the DF, taking only 2.5 oz and crying the whole time.  He woke back up at 12:30am, but I popped his paci back in and he went back to sleep until 1:15am.  Then I fed him about 4.5oz.  Of course he woke at 5:00am.  I gave him 2.5 oz and he slept until 6:45am.  Then he would only take 3.5oz at 7am.  I went out at 9:30pm last night to buy a new room darkening shade and it keeps falling off the wall!!  So frustrating........

His naps had been better until this week.  The first morning nap was ALWAYS 1.5 hrs with no wake up, then the later naps were 45min but I am always able to get him back to sleep.  Lately they have all been 45 min and he is getting harder to get back to sleep.  Hmmm....

EllenS--my DS is not so big, he is only about 12.5lbs, but I have been thinking that he might be ready for a 3.5hr EASY.  Do you think the biggest indicator of readiness is his eating habits or his ability to stay awake?  That is my biggest worry--he is so tired after 1hr 15min A time that he falls asleep on the changing table!

Also, I start back to work tomorrow and I want to make sure my nanny (who is my wonderful, grandmotherly, ex-MIL) can handle the "chaos" as you put it.  Any suggestions!

Thank you so much to everyone for their input!!!

[shanlbc]

Stacy--thanks so much for the further advice.  I finally got the shade up tonight with drywall screws.   I am the handyman at our house!  We'll see what happens at 5am.

We don't use a CD--he had been congested from his reflux so we started using a vaporizer and now we're hooked.  I think I already need a new filter from running it so much for the noise.  We have a teenager in the house so it helps drown out her and her friends and her music.

One thing I did differently today--I stopped feeding at 7pm as soon as he started to lose interest--about 4oz--instead of prodding him to take more.  I am hoping that will make him hungrier for the DF.  He took less today as a whole than he did yesterday so I am hoping for a full DF tonight.  I think that is why he woke at 1230am last night.

As far as a 3.5 hr EASY--that's what I was afraid of--I definitely don't think his A times are ready for the time it would take.  When we are out and about he can go longer but at home he makes it abundantly clear when he is ready to go down for a nap.

BTW--what would A times be for a 3.5hr EASY?  1hr 45min?

Shoemom--be sure to let me know how tonight goes!