desperately seeking advice...little one does not sleep!

[Colin Macs Mom]

Definitely great!!!      It's hard to not rush in with a spirited LO since they tend to be noisy sleepers and noisy the rest of the time too 

[rthomp]

Hello,
I just wanted to let you know of our success in sleep training our lo.  He is doing really well and normally only takes about 10-20 mins for our lo to settle down once his bed.  I rarely have to pick him up and settle him.  I just ssshh him and rub his head.  Wonderful!
However,  I have a couple questions.  Will I start to become his prop for going back to sleep?  Also I am still having quite a lot of trouble with him waking up throughout the night.  I leave him to try and put himself back to sleep and he normally gets close but what happens is he moves around so much that he gets himself stuck in a corner or turned onto his tummy.  By this point he has gotten himself wound up and I usually end up bf 'ing him, changing diaper and putting him back to bed and then he settles himself in minutes. 
How do I know if he really is hungry or just wants comfort?  And should my lo be going most of night now without eating?
Any words of wisdom would be helpful.
Thanks,

[yaya]

hurrah!
i would be wary of BFiong back to sleep, you dont want to create a prop.  You can tell if he's really hungry by his previous feeds and whether he's taking a full feed at the nightwake in Question, If not then he's only sucking for comfort

[rthomp]

Well sadly, what was working just doesn't seem to be working very well at all anymore.  nap times are not bad however, they are getting shorter and shorter.  And I dread bed time every day.  I do the same thing every day starting at about 6:30-7.....bath, bf, books(sometimes a song), blind, bed.  And now every time either he is very playful (this part could last about a half hour or so) or he just jumps right into screaming.   For the playing part I have to leave the room but when he's crying I stay with him and ssssh him and rub his head (he doesn't like the pats at all unless I am holding him).  I try to comfort him like this as much as I can unless the screaming gets out of hand and then I Pu/pd.  However, this seems to really make it worse because I get him settled and then tell him I am putting him down and halfway to the bed he is screaming again.  So I try to deal with it with him in his bed and we'll go through about 4 serious crescendo's and finally he will go off to sleep.  Sometimes this could go on for an hour.  Mostly it is about a half hour but is it always going to be like this or will he start to just get it and just go to sleep but with out all the drama?  What's making it worse is the nightwakings are becoming more frequent as well.  He'll fall asleep at 7:30ish, awake @ 8:30 (I'll try to let him settle himself - this never happens) I'll go in and he goes back to sleep with in 10-20 mins (of course this time is mostly spent fussing and  crying), he'll wake again around 10 to bf, goes back to sleep with little fuss, will wake again between 11:30 & 12:30 wanting to eat again.  I always try to settle him first but normally end up feeding him,  change his diaper and he's goes back to sleep easily.  And if I am lucky he will sleep until 3ish, bf, diaper and he will wake again  around
5:30/6:30 to bf but then want to get up and play.  this short lived and is ready to go back to sleep within an hour.  sometimes he will sleep for hour - 2 hours and he will be up for a while.
please what am I doing wrong???  I really need to get some sleep.  And I feel like I am traumatizing my lo with all the crying.....What can I do??

 

[momofclaire]

rthomp,

I am sorry you are having such a tough time. Sometimes, actually most times, sleep training can be a two steps forward, one back kinda deal.   

It sounds like you may be giving in and feeding even though he's doesn't need it.  Is that possible?  If so, you may be creating a bad habit.

You are not traumatizing him, so don't worry about that.  Hang in there, it does get better.  Post back

[rthomp]

I do realize that feeding him through the night might be turning into a habit.  How many times should I be feeding him?  During the day I feed him roughly every 2.5-3 hours, should it be the same at night?  How long should I be trying to settle him?  What if it takes over an hour? 

What I find frustrating, aside from everything else!!, is during the night when he wakes up I let him try to settle himself and sometimes I think that he's getting it but he moves around so much during this time that he gets himself onto his stomach  or into a corner and gets stuck and then the screaming starts.  Is there anything I can do about this or do I just keep letting him do it and go in when he really needs me?

Does the crying before sleep eventually stop?   

[momofclaire]

At 4.5 months, he shouldn't need to be fed every 2.5-3 hours during the day.  He should be able to go four easily, I would think.  Has he gained weight well?  Is he otherwise healthy? 
I remember patting and shhing for what seemed like hours when I first started sleep training Claire.  Yes, it can take an hour. The thing you must remember about sleep training is that you have to be consistant.  You are trying to teach him something.  He's just a baby so he learns and takes his cues from you.  If you have taught him that he eats, then sleeps, then he is going to naturally expect that. 
We put Claire in a sleep positioner, which kept her on her back until she could roll back and forth quite well. Is that an option?  Does he roll front to back and back to front by himself?  What is he getting stuck on?
Have you read any of Tracy's books? 
I hope this helps a bit. I know it can be hard and frustrating, but it doesn't last forever.

[rthomp]

really??!  4 hours seems like a long time.  I'm assuming there should be a nap in each of the 4 hour chunk and then of course the last one is bedtime. 
Very healthy little boy, by 4 months he had almost completely doubled his birth weight (born 8.9, 4mths 16lbs).  And during the day for the most part he is a very happy kid and he is learning fast.  So I am not concerned that there is something wrong. 
How long before Claire started to get it? 

[momofclaire]

He should be able to go four hours between feeds.  He is snacking right now and thus eats every 2 or 3 instead of having a proper meal.  Yes, there would be a nap in each of the 4 hour chunks. 
You may want to check out some sample easy routines and I would pick up a copy of Baby Whisper Solves All Your Problems, either at the bookstore or the library. It is jam packed with helpful info.
Here are a couple links that may help. 
https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=10385.0
https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=69369.0
I starting implementing the BW methods when Claire was very young, around 8 weeks.  She was on a 4 hour sch at 3.5 months and was not having a night feed at 4.5 months.  By that I mean, I would put her down, give her a dream feed at 10:30 and she would sleep without food until about 6:00.  Of course they change so much so quickly that once you get something down you are forced to move onto the next thing.    We had to do a bit of sleep training around 7 months and struggled a bit with the transition to one nap at 12 months.
The key is consistancy.  We can help you devise a plan or stategy but consistancy will get you there the fastest, notice I did not say the easiest.