Desperate for help - 6 month old still waking 2/6 times a night

[ukchick]

I am at the end of my tether, so tired am in a cloud and just do not know how to help my lo sleep better - and us of course!!

He started sleeping through at 12 weeks - then after about 3/4 weeks started waking again and has not stopped 

here is his routine - 4 hour easy

Awake 7 - feed 8oz
Breakfast 8-8.15 - porridge/pear - eats all!
Nap 1 - 9am - walk to nursery - in gro bag, cuddle, drowsy in cot, a few move abouts to find his position - asleep (easy!) Naps for at least an hour most the time

Awake 10 - 10.15 - play, get dressed etc
11.00 bottle - 8oz
Nap 2 - 12.30-1pm depending on cues etc. - usually another hour sometimes more sometimes less
Awake 2 ish - Lunch - veggies - eats all!

catnap - 3.30-4.30 - 30/45 minutes

5.00 ish dinner - veggies/chicken - mostly eats all.

bedtime wind down 6pm - bath, dressed in nursery, lights dimmed, bottle by 6.30 asleep by 7 usually. Now we are trying to put him in cot awake but most the time he is well drowsy from his bottle and obviously tired from the day. We usually put his gro bag on in his cot which aroses him enough so he knows he is now in his cot.

Now this is where the fun starts......

He can wake anything from 3 times before midnight to zero - then after his favourite times are from 3am - 5am but depends can be anything from 12, 1, 2am - irratic I would say.

This has been going on months! He dropped his night bottle at 12 weeks as he was only taking a few oz at 4am - this caused no probs and he was no hungrier in the morning.

We have been DF until 5 days ago and have now dropped this because he was getting a lot of leaky nappies in the night, he was drinking it all then hardly having any of his morning bottle and we wondered if it mght have been contributing to the waking.

He is eating better in the morning now but still not ravenous so I do not think he is hungry in the night. He is 19 lbs and eating his solidds well.

He has a dummy but I would not say he is dependant as he spits it out but latley he has been mastering the following:

Taking his dummy out and replugging himself a lot
Shouting/squealing - found his voice
creeping - he has been rolling for weeks and we often find him on his tummy in the crib but now he can be up the other end of the crib - god knows how he gets there?

Any idea's I am going mad! Sorry it is so long trying to awsner all possible questions before.

[momofclaire]

It appears to me that he may be overtired.  If his naps are just about an hour, he is not getting enough sleep. Also, the crawing, scooting thing can certainly cause him to wake at night just to see if he can still do it.   Give him plenty of floor time during the day.
Also, when did you start solids?  Being that he is 6 months and already on 3 meals a day may be causing him a bit of tummy trouble.

[ukchick]

The dreaded overtired word - been hearing that for months! he has just started taking longer naps the last month previously hit by the 30/45 nap monster so for him naps of over 1 hour are good!

How do you suggest fixing the overtiredness then as to me I am doing all I can to help him sleep - 3 naps a day, reading his cues, A times spot on - he doesn't resist naps. I am confused with the whole overtired thing you know. 3 hours in naps at 6 months is right I thought?

Thanks

[momofclaire]

If he is getting three hours then you may be ok there.  You said that sometimes his naps are less than an hour and that was where I saw the problem.  Sleep is a cummulative thing.  If they sleep well one week they may still be down sleep from the prior week or day.  I would maybe move his bedtime a bit earlier so you are on a 6:30-6:30 sch. Does he wake for that 9 df or do you go in and give it to him?
Also, have you considered that the food may be part of the problem?

[Samuel's mum]

When Sam started to take more solids he woke a LOT more. I think he was basically experiencing 'digestive' sensations! It might be worth keeping a food diary to see if anything makes a difference. Has there been any change with solids?

[nursekat]

Hey chick I had another thought...he is going to bed drowsy, is he needing you in any way?  As in, when he wakes at night does he need Mommy to help him go back down?  What are you doing at night when he wakes? 

And just a random thought...if you are not doing the DF what happens if you try feeding him during that first wake?  Does he sleep better?  Bethany went back and forth between needing feeds at night and not.

[ukchick]

Hey guys thanks for your replies.

I will consider the food - tonight we have not given him dinner to see if that makes a difference - he has had lunch and brekkie. He has only been on solids a month so maybe I am going to fast - haven't seen any issues though and he seems to want the food??

Kat - hey chick nice to see you here!!!  Hadn't considered feeding because he is never that ravenous in the morning - even after dropping the DF he is still not that bothered about morning bottle - odd? I take that as my cue he isn't hungry in the night - could I be wrong do you think??? Do I really want to go back to night feeding? Mind you those days of up and 3am - feed and back down by 3.30am seem easy now!!!!!

I dunno its a mystery, I have noticed today though he is rolling to tummy then back to back then creeping round so I think he is waking - having a practice then getting stuck in an awkward position and needing me to move him back at which point he is wide awake !! Lots going on developmentally - sitting, rolling both ways, creeping round in circles, he is also doing a kind of sing song to himself at the moment - and we hear him doing this when he wakes as well.

We'll see how tonight goes with no dinner and naps today have been 2 x 1.5 hours and a catnap from 4.15-4.50 (35 mins) bedtime aiming for 7pm.

Will let you know - cheers xx

[nursekat]

Mind you those days of up and 3am - feed and back down by 3.30am seem easy now!!!!!

Exactly my point.    One NW with a feed is much better than what you are describing! 

Bethany has never had much bottle in the morning, ever.  Even when she was eating at night.  It might be something worth trying, anyway.  If it doesn't work then at least you can rule out one variable, right?  I also noticed if I could get her back to sleep and she'd wake back up in an hour or less, that usually meant she was hungry - she was sleepy enough to fall back asleep but then her belly woke her again shortly.

I was asking what you do when he wakes currently because it might also be a thing where he knows he will get something from you and wants it and thus a bit of accidental parenting creeps in, kwim?  Describe what you currently do if he wakes at night...

[ukchick]

Hi Kat

When we go in we usually go in quite quickly cos we don't want him to wake right up cos then it is harder to get him back off and takes longer. We will walk in - it is dark, we put no lights on, don't speak, just feel around in his crib for the paci give it to him then either walk right out or put a hand on his chest or hold his hands if they are flailing. We have a stool next to the crib so sometimes we sit down to hold his arms, put a hand on his chest etc. We rarely pick him up, unless we think there is something wrong or we have checked and he is soaking through his clothes - then we do put the nightlight on for full change which does wake him right up for a good hour and a half! Thats another reason we dropped the DF.

I think your right, there is def some AP going on but we don't give him much attention at all. What would you do if it was you?

Maybe we are not consistent enough as me and dh have different styles - he is firmer than me and is better at putting him down for naps/sleep with minimal cuddling and more awake - I on the other hand will give him a couple of mins cuddling until I feel him relax then put him down - is this a problem do you think?

Thanks for your help Kat 

[nursekat]

No I don't think the cuddling is a problem...but I'm curious about what cues you are getting to go in when he wakes...your comment that you go in quickly so he doesn't wake all the way up, this to me sounds like he is not learning to self-settle if he wakes at night.  He will ALWAYS wake at night (Bethany still does, I just don't hear her , the trick is that he learns to go back to sleep on his own.

I realize potentially that if you DON'T go in then he will wake up and cry more and more and then you have to go in, but then you work on just settling him and then walking back out when he is still awake.  This may take several nights of less sleep than you are getting now (so sorry!), but it teaches him that when he wakes up, he can go back to sleep without needing his hands held, etc.  Does that make sense? 

What does he sound like now when he wakes?  Is he just fussing a bit or really doing an all-out I-need-you-now cry?

[ukchick]

he hardly cries he is not a night crier - I know your thinking why the hell go in then  , because I suppose I am just trying to rescue the potential situation which at worst is fully awake for 1.5 hours middle of night. My anxiety at bed time and during the night is because I am always dreading what could be - I've got myself in a state.

Last night he woke at 3.30 - quick paci insert back out straight back to sleep. Then the 5.15am awaking - rolled him on his side with paci he went back to sleep til 6.00 then that was it he was up  To me that ws a good night - he did have some meds before bed cos he has a bit of cold coming and I do think these knock him out a bit but he was asleep by 7.15. This 6am waking is new - the last week or so, is that common?

So, he wakes in the night, yes I do hear him call and I don't always attend unless he starts to fuss. Some nights he calls right out and I am just so tired I think I kind of ignore him and he does go back off so he can put himself back to sleep without me I suppose it is when he wakes right up - know what I mean? So are you saying leave him until he cries then respond? Thing is he hardly cries, just wakes up and fusses mostly - do I leave or attend?

DH is now off for a week so we need to start what we are going to do now so we can hopefully sort it before he starts his new job. I just need a plan so we can say right this is how we are going to deal in the night. I don;t think were doing too much wrong to be fair just need to tweak here and there I think, OR maybe I am expecting too much and his wakings are normal - is it too much to expect no night wakings that need attention at this age??

Thanks Kat sorry if I am taking up too much of your time here but I do respect your advice and experience.

Cheers hon. xx

P.s. hope your ok by the way it is all me me me at the moment 

[nursekat]

P.s. hope your ok by the way it is all me me me at the moment 

You're so sweet, that is the whole point of starting your own thread, chick! 

Well, this is going to be hard to do but I would leave him until he cries.  Do you have a monitor or can you hear him really well?  If you are using a monitor, I would turn it off.  You might be suprised at how much more sleep you get.    Waking at night is normal - you wake at night periodically, everybody does.  It's if he knows to just go back asleep on his own or if he's saying, "Mommy come see me I'm awake!" - THAT is the difference. 

HOpe he is feeling better and you are surviving without your DH.