Author Topic: habitual night wakings - UPDATED really need some support : (  (Read 4224 times)

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Offline Pigeon

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Hi, for the last 3 nights I have stopped feeding my 11 week old at night.  :) He has a df at 10.30 and then goes through till 6.30. He's just not hungry.
However, for the past 2 weeks or so, he has been waking every 2 hours or so from 1 am. (We've just come back from holiday, where we were sharing a room with him. Think we got into v. bad habits as I was doing everything in my power to get him into a deep sleep so that he wouldn't disturb us with his thrashing around :-\). Last night was 1.30, 3.30, 5 and 6. He's relatively easy to resettle, just by rubbing his back, but at 3.30 he cried UNLESS I rubbed his back to sleep. And now when he wakes at night he cries (he wasn't  crying 2 weeks ago).  I think he became kind of dependent on us/maybe we interfered too much with his natural ways of getting to sleep on holiday. What do I do to combat these night wakings now? How do I get back on track? Am loathe to leave him to cry as afraid it will wake DD, who isn't in the same room, but who can hear everything in our smallish 3 bed terrace.
Any ideas?
« Last Edit: June 07, 2007, 09:48:43 am by Pigeon »
Laura, studying SAHM of
Megan Isabelle - April 2004
William Harvey (Billy) - March 2007

Offline MDHmommy

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Re: habitual night wakings
« Reply #1 on: June 05, 2007, 13:18:39 pm »
Hi there!
Could you post your routine - just so that we can take a look to make sure there's nothing there that might need a tweek? If all's well - you might want to try shh/pat with him since he's still so little. There will be some crying...maybe a white noise machine or fan is in order for Miss Megan.
Kate
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Offline Pigeon

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Re: habitual night wakings
« Reply #2 on: June 05, 2007, 14:24:07 pm »
Hi, I'd love to post our routine, but it changes daily . Am trying my best to stick to EASY - but Billy will generally only nap for 30-45 mins at a time. I then spend the rest of my time trying to get him to go back to sleep until his next feed. He wakes at 6.30 for the day and is awake for 1 hr or so before I put him down. On a good day he will have one 1.5 to 2 hour nap. Today he has put himself back to sleep but the first time he did it it took him 40 mins!  :-[. Bit of crying, then quietening etc.
Finding it very hard to get him in a proper daily routine to fit around Megan, who has pre-school twice a week (and to top it all, one pm session and one am session). Am also finding it hard to get out the house with them both as Buster won't sleep properly at all in the pushchair. I'm trying to transition to 3.5 hour EASY as he is not hungry at 3 hours anymore....
Here, for example, was our day yesterday:
6.20 awake and feed
7.30 sleep (two lots of 40 minutes, had to resettle him halfway through)
9.15 feed
11.15 (!) 2 hour sleep (had to go out to DD's swimming lesson - hence the two hour A time)
1.10 pm - feed
2.10 pm sleep (he was giving me tired signals, I didn't want to believe them, but went with him)
2.45 woke, didn't resettle so
4.10 - I fed him.
5.00 - nap for 45 mins
6.10 - feed and bed by 6.45.
I know that's all over the place, just trying to get him back into a routine after the holiday.
Laura, studying SAHM of
Megan Isabelle - April 2004
William Harvey (Billy) - March 2007

Offline MDHmommy

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Re: habitual night wakings
« Reply #3 on: June 05, 2007, 15:51:41 pm »
I love it that you call him Buster, my mother calls my DS Buster as well... :)

Ok then, your routine, as you know...could be a bit more structured. I know it's hard with two. I don't actually *know* but I can imagine that it must be. Particularly in the summer when there are lots of activities. Will DD be attending pre-school all summer? Or will she be on summer vacation soon? That might be a good time to try to work out a bit more of a structured routine.

That aside, it sounds like your DS might have some overtiredness. The 40 minute nap is usually a pretty good indication of that, as is the frequent waking at night. Given that you've just stopped the night feeds, you might have some issues going on there too. 2 months seems a bit young to stop the night feeds is he FF or BF? Did you stop it cold turkey or gradually wean it out?

Sorry for more questions - just want to make sure I've got a full picture before I go making suggestions!
Kate
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Offline Pigeon

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Re: habitual night wakings
« Reply #4 on: June 05, 2007, 18:12:49 pm »
Hi, just wanted to post our routine for today (a full day in without any Megan commitments). This is a "structured" day!
6.30 - awake and feed
7.45 - sleep, woke at 8.20, resettled himself by 9 (mantra crying, then going quiet)
10 - woke and feed
11.45 - sleep, woke at 12.30, resettled himself by 1 (mantra crying)
1.35 - woke him to feed.
2.45 - sleep woke at 3.30, didn't go back
4.30 - feed
4.45 - put to bed, asleep by 5
5.50 - woke
6.10 - feed, bath and bed by 7.

Will DD be attending pre-school all summer? Or will she be on summer vacation soon? That might be a good time to try to work out a bit more of a structured routine.Yes, she will be off from July, hoping that I can make a better routine then, if its not too late. I was really hoping to start while he's so little (we've been attempting EASY since day 1)


2 months seems a bit young to stop the night feeds is he FF or BF? Did you stop it cold turkey or gradually wean it out?
He's BF. I know, I thought the same thing. It just happened one night while we were away. He woke at a couple of times including 3.30 (his usual BF time) but rather than get him up, I just patted his back and he went back to sleep. Next thing we know it was 6.30 and we fed him then, he didn't even seem particularly ravenous. So I figured if he could go without, it could only be a good thing...... ??? He was down to one feed overnight anyway, so I guess you could say we did it gradually.
I KNOW daytime routine is an issue and that he's overtired and am really hoping it doesn't impact too much on nighttime. But am also hoping he's just habitually waking as that was when I fed him, maybe if I keep resettling him he will gradually stop?? (She says, hopefully!)
Thanks for your input..
Laura, studying SAHM of
Megan Isabelle - April 2004
William Harvey (Billy) - March 2007

Offline MDHmommy

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Re: habitual night wakings
« Reply #5 on: June 05, 2007, 18:55:35 pm »
That looks pretty good! But of course, one day does not a routine make! I'll be eager to hear how his night goes tonight.

I stopped BF during the night when LO was 11 weeks and it worked for a while, but then my DS needed to be fed at night again - so don't be too rigid in your decision not to feed at night. They grow fast and their hunger/needs change. As long as BF is not a prop, there's nothing wrong with one feed during the night for a baby so young.

"Sleeping through the night" means 6 consecutive hours for a newborn, and your son's still a newborn!

Keep working at that overtiredness and listen carefully to the kind of cry at night. If he seems hungry then feed him. If you're really set on not feeding him at night - can you give him a cluster feed to tank him up before bed time? Have you tried that at all?

Kate
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Offline Pigeon

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Re: habitual night wakings
« Reply #6 on: June 06, 2007, 10:05:23 am »
Hi last night ok - he slept until 3 am  :) but then woke again at 4-4.30 and again at 6. Resettled and started the day at 6.45. I almost fed him, but we got him off without. Don't really know if we're making things too hard or not.
Most days he gets a cluster feed (4 ish and 6ish) before going to bed,. Its feed at 6ish, bath, top up and bed by 7. Seems to work!  ;)
Laura, studying SAHM of
Megan Isabelle - April 2004
William Harvey (Billy) - March 2007

Offline MDHmommy

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Re: habitual night wakings
« Reply #7 on: June 06, 2007, 13:37:47 pm »
Sounds like you're doing great!
Kate
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Offline Pigeon

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Re: habitual night wakings
« Reply #8 on: June 07, 2007, 09:47:34 am »
Hello again, I'm back. Well, last night was the night from hell. Billy woke at 2.30 on his back with his hands out of his swaddle blanket (I should explain that he is a tummy sleeper, but can now push himself onto his side with his legs and then roll onto his back) and then woke again at 3.30, 4, 5.45 and 6.10. At my wit's end. We didn't feed him again, but I'm going to have to tonight. Problem is, even feeding him 5 days ago didn't stop him waking 90 mins later. And it wasn't hunger that first woke him last night. Its almost like he will sleep soundly from 7-2 and then the rest of the night he almost reverts to a daytime sleep schedule? And he cries, so we have to go in and settle him each time, he won't settle himself (well, actually we have to go in and see what position he's in, he's so unused to sleeping on his back that it wakes him up).
So many issues going on here, and I really don't know what to do. We've got ourselves in a right pickle and I'm so panicked that it seems to be getting worse. What are we doing wrong?
Sorry for the rant, but I'm in a mess. I'm so exhausted. I worked out the other day I haven't had a full night's sleep for about 6 months (couldn't sleep in the latter part of pregnancy either).  :'(  :'(
Laura, studying SAHM of
Megan Isabelle - April 2004
William Harvey (Billy) - March 2007

Offline mikiweiser

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Re: habitual night wakings - UPDATED really need some support : (
« Reply #9 on: June 07, 2007, 10:29:18 am »
i'm new here..
also have 2 kids - ds1 is 3.4 yrs and lo is 5.5 months.
i bf until lo was 4 months old

my lo goes to sleep at 7ish pm and (when he was a baby and bf) woke up every 3.5 hrs to eat
10/11pm - bf
2/3 am - bf
6/7 am - bf

now i know it's tough... but it does get better.
the spreads lengthened to 4 hrs
- it helped when i made the DF a bottle
at 3 months he had a 5 sweep and them 4 sweep (7pm sleep, 12 DF, 4am bf)
at 4 months the bf became a bottle
now it's like this: 7pm bottle/sleep, 11/12 DF, 4/5/6 (depending on when he wakes) bottle
- i have added cereal to his milk which helps
- sometimes he just wants water and not formula and he falls back to sleep
- he does not take a pacifier, the cloth on his face calms him back down
- at 6am i turn on the mobile - no food - and he falls back to sleep

don't know if i am adding props that i should not be adding, but maybe your little one just needs some help to go back into dream land - and if you give something that he can later get without you it may make it easier on you...

OHHHH - yes... maybe this may help
I heard from my forum that babies that start teething start flipping in their sleep and the restlessness is not that they are hungry but rather the teething is bothering them - is he teething? (it takes forever for the tooth to come out, but you can tell if it's in the works)

and is the swaddling helping or hurting now? i don't swaddle anymore

YOU ARE NOT DOING ANYTHING WRONG
tracy always says before rushing in, wait, breathe look at what's going on and then solve.... (in my words) don't get too confused by the exhaustion... try and read the cues and maybe it's a growth spurt...

if you can get a babysitter - bring one and GO TO SLEEP for 3 hours in the afternoon - it's worth the money to get your
sanity.
hang in there - miki

Offline MDHmommy

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Re: habitual night wakings - UPDATED really need some support : (
« Reply #10 on: June 07, 2007, 13:14:18 pm »
Lara,

So sorry you're having a tough time...It's really hard when LO isn't sleeping well, esp. because you've got another to care for. I had a terrible time with my DS, there was a stretch of time last summer where he woke every 45 minutes beginning at 10:30, through till about 6am when he was up for the day. This lasted for three months. So I know how you feel. It's really, really hard.

Let's think about some other things that might be bothering the little guy. Are there any illnesses circulating your house that maybe he's picked up a cold or ear infection from big sister? Have you changed your own diet at all in any way that his tummy may be bothering him? How do you think your milk supply is doing? Have you tried doing a yield like Tracy outlines in BWSAYP?

It's not unusual for the NWs to cluster themselves in the second half of the night. The first part of the night is a very deep sleep, and the second tends to be more active, and there are more opportunities to wake and not settle back. Especially if they're hungry or if something else is bothering them.

If you feel that you should feed him in the night, then by all means, do it. I still think that it's very reasonable to feed such a young baby in the night after 6-7 hours. Not all children can go for 11-12 hours at night without a feed. Frankly, I think that we make it harder on ourselves and our LOs than it has to be by trying to make them do that. Try to remember what I said earlier, with such a young child, 6 hours is considered sleeping through the night, and try (I know it's hard when you're spent, to feel good when he makes it that long). If he's going from 7 until 2, he's doing a 7 hour stretch and that's good, no, excellent!

You said that you fed him one night, and that it did not help, but you might want to try to figure out a plan and then stick with it for more than one night. If he has got into the habit of waking, one feed, one night is not going to solve it. You'll need to do whatever you do for at least a week and maybe more to see change.

I do agree with PP that you should consider adding your DF back into the mix. This is the kind of thing where you'll know fairly quickly - maybe after a week or so whether or not it's helping/he's taking it. You could do a DF at about 10:30 and then if he wakes after 2, you can BF one more time to get him through till morning. If you're able to express some milk, have DH/DP give him the DF so that you can go to bed nice and early, and be more able to handle the wakes in the second half of the night. Keep in mind, the DF does not have to be a "full" feed, but just as much as LO will take to kind of top him off, give him more of those lovely, sleepy hormones that you've got in your BM, and keep him asleep!

So ... for then next 5 nights, try a DF, and one feed in the second half of the night. Then after the 5th night, take note of where you are with wakes vs. where you were after last night. Try to look at the bigger picture over a length of time rather than every night. Kind of like weighing yourself every day is discouraging...so is looking at every single night's sleep.

You might also want to get one of those swaddles with the velcro, if you can - I had one called a Swaddle Me - that will stay put through all sorts of "thrashing" and perhaps an infant sleep positioner to help him stay put. You say he's sleeping on his tummy, and of course you know that is not recommended for a baby so young due to risk of SIDS. He might do nicely on his back, cuddled in a nice tight swaddle with a sleep positioner on both sides of him.

Above all...hang in there, try to get yourself into bed nice and early, and don't hesitate to lean on friends and family, neighbors etc. for help with both children. Keep us posted!   :-*

Kate




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Offline Pigeon

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Re: habitual night wakings - UPDATED really need some support : (
« Reply #11 on: June 07, 2007, 18:15:19 pm »
Kate and Miki, thank you for your lovely long posts. We ARE doing a dream feed at 10.30 already. I will def. try feeding him again in the early hours tonight and see what happens. Funnily enough we have a swaddleme blanket, but if on his back/side he can still get his hands out. He's really unused to sleeping on his back, its what woke him last night. Miki, I don't know if the swaddling is helping/hindering anymore, but I'm too chicken to make the hand out transition, maybe at the weekend we'll start that.
Strange that you should mention teeth Miki, I know he's only 12 weeks old, but I've been wondering that recently. He's dribbling for Britain, has two red spots on his cheeks and has been clamping down on the nipple for all he's worth. Perhaps he can feel the teeth coming through. And very interesting that flipping is associated with that.......I just thought he was too young...
Thanks for your support - let's see what tonight brings - I'll keep you posted.
Laura, studying SAHM of
Megan Isabelle - April 2004
William Harvey (Billy) - March 2007

Offline Pigeon

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Re: habitual night wakings - UPDATED really need some support : (
« Reply #12 on: June 08, 2007, 06:31:09 am »
So, going to keep a log of the next five nights so I can refer back to them:

Night 1 - bed at 6.55, df at 10.30, first woke at 3.15, good feed, straight back and woke at 6.15!  ;D  ;D

Night 2 - oh dear. Bed at 7, df at 10.30, first woke at 11.15 (hands out and on back), then 2.15 (hands out and on side), 3.30 (good feed), 4, 5.10 and 6.10. Tried to get back to sleep, unsuccessful, so first feed at 6.40 (good feed and large poo).  :o  :(  :(

Night 3 - bed at 7, df at 10.30 first woke at 3.10 wet, changed, fed, back to bed awake, cooed but fell asleep without crying by 4, woke at 6.30!!  :D

Night 4 - bed at 7, df at 10.20, woke at 1.50 (on his back) then resettled till 3.10 (feed) and awake for the day at 6 am

Night 5 - bed at 6.50, but uncomfortable/thrashing around so resettled and asleep by 7.10. Woke at 9, cried a lot, but settled, df at 10.20, woke 1.30 (on his back), 3.10 (fed well), around 5, but put himself back and awake for teh day at 6.10.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2007, 12:54:53 pm by Pigeon »
Laura, studying SAHM of
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William Harvey (Billy) - March 2007

Offline Pigeon

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Re: habitual night wakings - UPDATED really need some support : (
« Reply #13 on: June 12, 2007, 12:56:48 pm »
So, above is my log. I guess out of those five days you could say we've had two fantastic nights, one holy horror and two ok nights. Daytime sleep is getting much better (he slept for 90 mins straight this morning) so I'm hoping we're on the up. Will continue log for another couple of nights.
Now all I have to do is attempt to get him to start his day nearer 7 than 6  ;) (guessing that's a whole other thread....!!)
Kate and Miki, what do you think?
Laura, studying SAHM of
Megan Isabelle - April 2004
William Harvey (Billy) - March 2007

Offline MDHmommy

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Re: habitual night wakings - UPDATED really need some support : (
« Reply #14 on: June 12, 2007, 15:01:14 pm »
I think he's doing great!!

I'd keep the record of 2 good nights, 2 ok and one bad and ditch the details. Keep working on your day time sleep, and consider some other method of swaddle/positioning. Can you tell me again what you're doing to settle him when he wakes and you don't feed him?
Kate
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