waking a lot and up early...

[dorninger]

So here is our situation:
We have a wonderful almost 7 month old- We've spent the last 2 months getting him from his free and easy way of living onto the 4 hour EASY routine, and then 2 weeks ago have started the sleep training part (PU/PD and shush/pat).  I feel like we are making some progress, but still have a long way to go as far as his sleep is concerned. 
I'll try to give you all our pertinent info and then ask my questions:
Our routine is generally
He wakes for the day between 5:30 and 6:30 am.
7:00 E (I'm breastfeeding one side per feed- but he usually only eats for 8-12 minutes...)
7-9 A
9:00 S Often he will only sleep for 40-45 minutes for this nap- sometimes he will go 1.5-2 hours.  If he wakes after 45 min we will generally try PU/PD or shush pat to get him back to sleep).
11:00 E
11-1 A (sometime during this we will give him an oz or so of solid food which he has only been doing for a week or so- pears or apples)
1:00 S (again, about 50% will be a short nap, other times will be longer)
3:00 E
3:00-5:00 A
5:00 E
5:00-7:00 A (including bedtime ritual- massage, naked play time, bath)
7:00/7:30 S
From here the night times are very very variable.  We give him two dream feeds; one around 11pm and one at around 3am- this is because he use to wake up every 45min to 1.5 hours and feed all night long (lord help me) and I really felt reluctant to make him go 8 hours after this night long feast- i hope to wean him off the 3 am feed soon though.
Other than this he has been waking every 1-3 hours (which actually is a huge improvement over where he had been, but call me greedy, I want more!).  Last night for example
7:00-9:10 S
9:10-9:35 PU/PD - full crying/screaming/screatching
9:35-11:00 S
11:00 woke up exactly at 11- feed (3.5 oz)
11:10-2:00 S
2:00-2:10 woke fussy, but himself back asleep pretty easily
2:10-2:30 S
2:30 woke fussy- feed (3 oz)
3:00-4:30 S
4:30-4:40 woke fussy
4:40-5:45 S
5:45 awake for the day
So by the way the rest of our morning went like this
5:45-7:00 A
7:00 E
7:10-8:45 A
8:45-9:20 S
9:20 SCREAMING awake, scretching
9:20-10:45 PU/PD- and shush/pat
10:45-11:15 S
Woke at 11:15 for feed.... and so on.

SO, here are my questions:
1. when he wakes early like he did this morning it's a real stretch to get him to 9 am naptime and he definitly gets tired way earlier like 7 am or so... I'm afraid if we put him down so early we will get way off our EASY 4 hour scheldue but on the other hand we are clearly making him overtired which may be why his naps are short.... what to do?
2.I feel like he wakes so much at night partly because he is hungry- but I don't know how to get him to eat more.... I cluster feed and do dream feeds, but quantity wise I don't think he eats very long... and to complicate matters I only can feed on one breast- he refuses to take the other (inverted nipple)- my lactation consulutant says that shouldn't be a problem and he is growing fine... but still I wonder..
3. There are times when he is fussy when it seems better for me to leave the room.  There are times when it seems like it is stimulating for me to be in there with him... is that okay? 
4. Is there someone we can talk in person to, even hire, to help us iron out these and other issues.  It's been just so hard.  I love my little bug but am so incredibly sleep deprived and it's putting a lot of pressure on me, my husband, us... I've put off work longer than we can afford because I'm so exhausted... I really need to get him sleeping better and am totally commited to doing this right.  But am confused about these points.  Thank you in advance for any help and insight you can give!

[Layla]

Hi there & welcome to the boards!!!

Just to answer some of your questions:

1. when he wakes early like he did this morning it's a real stretch to get him to 9 am naptime and he definitly gets tired way earlier like 7 am or so... I'm afraid if we put him down so early we will get way off our EASY 4 hour scheldue but on the other hand we are clearly making him overtired which may be why his naps are short.... what to do?

I wouldn't personally do a nap any earlier than 8.45. 9 am is the ideal and you are right, if he's down waaaay earlier then the whole day is ruined and gets messy. I think sometimes tired signs can also be bored signs. So if he's yawning at 7am, then I would do a change of scenery, etc... I would aim to be in crib at 9am.

2.I feel like he wakes so much at night partly because he is hungry- but I don't know how to get him to eat more.... I cluster feed and do dream feeds, but quantity wise I don't think he eats very long... and to complicate matters I only can feed on one breast- he refuses to take the other (inverted nipple)- my lactation consulutant says that shouldn't be a problem and he is growing fine... but still I wonder..
3. There are times when he is fussy when it seems better for me to leave the room.  There are times when it seems like it is stimulating for me to be in there with him... is that okay? 

We ALL wake up at night in between cycles. We might turn over, bang the pillow a few times (lol), look at the clock, get some water, etc... and then go back to sleep. All those awakenings you have descibes are perfectly normal to me and to be honest if he is fussy or happens to cry out or just making some noises, I would leave him alone. He might just be learning how to settle himself and you are right in saying that your presence is probably stimulating him more than helping him. To be honest, I wouldn't even go in unless he is crying (and I mean REALLY crying..... the "I NEED YOU NOW"!!! cry). He could be doing a mantra cry so again, let him be unless he really needs you!

4. Is there someone we can talk in person to, even hire, to help us iron out these and other issues.  It's been just so hard.  I love my little bug but am so incredibly sleep deprived and it's putting a lot of pressure on me, my husband, us... I've put off work longer than we can afford because I'm so exhausted... I really need to get him sleeping better and am totally commited to doing this right.  But am confused about these points.  Thank you in advance for any help and insight you can give!

I know its hard . I BF Jasmine for ALL awakenings (we're talking every 1-2hrs as well) for the 1st 4 months and it was so draining. I had a toddler next door and just didn't want her to be waking up from all that fussing, moaning, calling out... so I would feed her . You will get through this.... I am not sure if someone from this site would come over... you might be able to get help from a sleep school ... but most likely they will recommend controlled crying (which is not something I would recommend) so hang around and we will be here to support you.

I wanted to comment on the A times. At 7 months, he should be able to do close to 3hrs...... so for the morning nap, do your windown about 30mins earlier (so say 8.30) and aim for him to be in the cot (hopefully starting to fall asleep) at 9am. If he wakes at 45mins and you cannot get him down for longer, forget the nap and put him down earlier for the pm nap, say around 12.45-1pm. Say he sleep till 2.30pm, you might have to give him a catnap in the early evening (around 5pm) so that he is not awake for so long in the afternoon. If he's waking from his pm nap at say 3pm (or earlier if that nap was short), then till 7pm thats a pretty long stretch. My 1yo can only just do 4hrs before bedtime now... at 7 months, it was 3hrs. It might not be TRUE EASY but as long as he is not being fed to sleep, you can still have he 4hourly feedings but just play around with A times.

If you cannot get a catnap in, then I would do an earlier bedtime (so 6/6.30pm) instead of 7/7.30pm. Usually the earlier bedtimes help with overtiredness & nightwakings.

SO.... for the night feeds - 2 feeds is fine, imo at 7months. So the dreamfeed at 11pm & early morning feed.


Sorry for the long post
Layla

[dorninger]

Thank you Layla for your response!
Wow, does it ever feel good to be able to communicate with others about this.  Truely a god send!
We have out of town visitors for a few days, when they leave I'll respond in more lenght and continue figuring this out.  But again, thank you so so much for your support.

[dorninger]

Okay dokey, we're back...
again, all your advice was very useful and especially to let him be when he is fussy/mantra crying- I do think I was going in too quickly before.
But here we are working very hard to get him to sleep better diligently doing everything it seems we are suppose to be for many months and he is still waking 5-6 times a night.... I guess my next question is @(*$&*)(*&@#$$@#$!!HELP!!! (if that even is a question).  I still think it's often a hunger issue as he typically wakes an hour or so before our scheduled feedings (11pm and 3am) and will either cry for an hour until we feed him or if we are lucky go back to sleep but wake every 10-15 minutes until we feed him..) Having said that he usually only eats 3-4 oz's during these feeds...
The other problem time is morning- he usually wakes every half hour from 4:30 on and will usually be up entirely around 5:30-6:00...
Any ideas?
P.S.
We are grateful for the improvement we have gotten since before BW he was waking every 45-60 min throughout the night in my bed nursing every time... so clearly we have made progress... could it be a matter of just continuing to be consistent and patient?

[Layla]

Well if he wakes up and you think its hunger, then feed him and see if he'll settle faster. So at 10pm, feed him and he might do a longer stretch. If he's up any earlier than 5hrs later (for the 2nd feed), then settle without feeding.

Towards the morning there is alot more REM sleep (which is restless sleep) so if he's stirring alot, etc... let him be. I think he is waking so early because of all the nightwakings at the moment & him being overtired in general. Daysleep also has an effect on night sleep. So if he's overtired during the day from short naps then he'll have many nightwakings

[dorninger]

Okay, I'll give that a go (feeding him earlier)... So if we feed him at 10 then we do need to wait till 3am before another feed?  I wonder if we've been messing him up by doing the feeds only 3.5-4 hours apart previously (11pm and then 2:30-3:00am)
Yes, I do think being overtired may be part of the issue- sometimes his naps are good (1.5 hours- 2hours) but often they are only 45 minutes... it's hard to stop the overtired cycle though.  Any ideas on that?

[Layla]

IF he is taking a long morning nap and its affecting his pm nap, then I would cut the morning nap down to no more than 1hr15mins to start with. I believe the afternoon nap is more important in regards to nightwakings (or at least I found in our case). My girls suffered more at night if they had a short pm nap rather than a short morning nap. So, do what you can to get him to sleep longer than 45mins in the afternoon & if he has then do a catnap. We've always been able to tackle overtiredness with an earlier bedtime.

[dorninger]

So today for example:
he slept from 9-10:45am, 1:15-2:30 and then from 4:30-5:00... I put him down at 7pm but it took him 45 minutes to fall asleep.  how does this seem to you?
when you suggest an earlier bedtime are you saying even earlier than 7pm? 
thank you very much for all your help!

[Layla]

Something like what happened today is a good nap day. I suggest an earlier bedtime on a day say you have a short pm nap & you have to give a catnap say at 3.30/4pm (which then ends at 4:45), then I would do a 6.30pm bedtime.

[dorninger]

Well, it looks like we are at the end of wits here.   Last night my DH gave me the ultimatium of if this doesn't work better soon we are going to CIO... ugg.  I can't say he's totally alone on feeling this way although I'm more reluctant to go there... but I do wonder how much better this is than CIO as our DS is doing a lot of crying as it is and it's been going on for so long.
Last night went like this (and keep in mind this is after a day of good naps, see above)
7:00 put to bed
7:45 fell asleep after mild fussing on own for 45 min.
10:30 Awake DF (DF are never really dream feeds as he always is awake by the time we feed him, waiting to be fed) ate 3.5 oz
1:00 Awake- left in room byself for 45 minutes- fussyness starts to esculate. In with him from 1:45-3:00 doing PU/PD (a little bit), modified shush/pat (more just shush/ hold hand on back) and just being there
3:00 "DF" 4 oz
4:45 awake briefly
6:00 awake for day
7:00 feed- not even very hungrey (breastfeed this time hard to know how much but he only fed for a couple minutes)

SO, I don't know what we are doing wrong!  I guess technically he was only up 3 times last night but it's the hours up and crying in the middle of the night that is putting us over the edge.  I know you are trying to help but I have to ask again is there anything else you think we should be doing differently?  I'm feeling desperate now because I dont' want this to cause friction with my husband and I, and I can't do this on my own...
One other question: My husband really wants to stick to PU/PD when he wakes up but in my opionion it stimulates him more- he wanted me to ask about this though.

[Layla]

I'm not a fan of CIO & Tracy didn't advocate that method because it can break the bond/trust between the baby and the mother, so personally I dont think thats a fair ultimatum . He has been used to being BF to sleep at night and that habit is hard to break. You've just started pupd 2 weeks ago and sleep training takes time and lots of patience. Believe me I understand where you are coming from and I myself have thought about that method but something like CIO comes with a price.

Here's some info on CIO - https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=63839.0

There is no need to do pu/pd if he's just fussing. You only do it if he's crying, otherwise its too stimulating and keeps him up longer. At night, I would wait to see if he settles, if he's crying, I go in and do pu/pd until he's settled & leave. If he's moaning again, let him be and only go back if he's crying again.

Is he teething?

[Layla]

How are you feeling?

[dorninger]

I'm feeling appreciative of you asking that question!
Well, I think we are still going tough it out for a while.... is there a certain amount of time after which you would say, hum, that DS of yours just may not go for this?....
Last night same type of deal, woke a few times but then was really up from 1:30-3:00 am at which we fed him, he went to sleep and slept 3.5 hours.... Just really trying to get him to eat as much as he can during the days...

[Layla]

I know what you mean about trying to feed as much as you can during the day. Unfortunately some babies will hold onto night feeds until 9 months (& this occured with both my girls) and no matter what I did, it was just not worth fighting. I think once solids are more or less established, you can work on eliminating night feeds (maybe watering down formula) or using pu/pd instead & with time it should give him the message that he won't be fed at night any more

[dorninger]

Layla-
Do you think it would woth weaning him from the 3am feed to see if that would help our situation?  And I do really want to know if you think there are times when BW technique doesn't work for some babies... (and how much time we should carry on until we consider other techniques).
Sarah

[Layla]

What other techniques? Do you mean CIO or CC?

How long it takes to sleep train depends on how consistent you are and the temperament of your baby. But if he is waking out of hunger, why deny him what he needs? You know I've read somewhere that it can take the brain (the part thats responsible for sleep) up to 9 months (40 weeks) to fully develop & for them to sleep through all night. Of course some babies do it earlier but if not, I wouldn't see there being anything wrong with it either. If he settles with food, he is truly hungry. It is not uncommon for them to have a night feed up until 9 months (and for some even more). BF babies can hold onto night feeds past 9 months.

I think you need to carry on for as long as it takes. There will ALWAYS be something... be it milestone, sickness, travel, the arrival of a new baby, etc... that might throw him off a little and cause nightwakings. Sleep training is not something I see as doing once and thats it. Now its hard because its still fairly new to him. My 2yo still wakes here and there and I still go to her.

[dorninger]

well, its just that the 3 am feed isn't in tracy's books, so i wanted to make sure i wasn't doing something wrong.

[Layla]

I didn't really follow Tracy's book to that much of an extent. The sample routines are just that & I am sure you are doing the right thing .

What kind of a day did he have yesteday??? I was thinking that maybe the catnap is interfering with his night sleep. If he's had 2 long naps then maybe there is no need for a catnap?

[Layla]

Sarah, I was just washing dishes and thinking about you. I don't think I am really helping here but I thought maybe we could go another way around it....

The catnap - there came a time (for us it was 9months ) when it just wasn't working and if they had a catnap, nights would be hell. So as I mentioned before, if you are able to stretch him to naps at 9am (say 1.5hrs) and another nap at say between 1.30-2pm (1.5hrs) then you could put him down at 6.30pm instead of doing a catnap & bedtime at 7pm. If he's fussing for 45mins when you put him down at 7pm right now, it might be that he's just not tired enough so by eliminating the catnap and bringing the bedtime up, he might have more solid sleep.

Night feeds - If his last feed is at say 6.30pm (or just before bedtime), maybe you should start of by giving him up to 4-5hrs before the next feed. So if he wakes around 10.30pm, then feed him and back in bed until the next 4-5hrs. If he is up any earlier than 4hrs, I would do pu/pd to settle him. When I used to feed every 1-2hrs (like a maniac & just as you did) at night, it was very hard to just increase her intake during the day so I would stretch her feeds every 3hrs and then every 4hrs at night, etc...& would do shh/pat when/if she'd wake earlier than my desired time.

If he is truly taking in a feed (and not just 1/2 heartedly) when you are feeding him at night and also emptying the breast during the day, then I would say he really needs those nightfeeds so when you have established solids, you can work on eliminating them. You can now attempt to stop the 3am feed so if you are breastfeeding, what you do is reduce the time of the feed... so if he's taking 8 mins, cut it down to 7, 6, 5, etc... and then I would hope he is taking more in during the day & if he's still waking then you could do pu/pd for that 3am wake up. I would suggest gradually rather than not feeding at all and trying to settle him for hours in the middle of the night.

And lastly, don't doubt yourself. The book is there as a guide and not all babies are the same and will do the same thing. Alot of it at the start is trial and error. I used to be extremely jelous, reading through posts where babies did this amazing 8hr stretch at 6 weeks. My 1st child did 4-6hr stretches until she was 9months and I remember thinking will these night feeds ever end (of course when she did start sleeping through, I was pregnant with #2 and couldn't sleep anyways ... but you get the idea. He will sleep through, it just takes a little patience and consistency.

Ok, back to washing dishes
Speak to you later 

[dorninger]

Hey Layla
That was such a nice message- thanks for thinking of me (poor thing you!- lol)... It's funny because yesterday, before I got your post, I wrote a long one to you about the last couple days and some thoughs I was having and just as I was sending it my internet connection got lost- and I lost the message.  I didn't have the energy to do it again.  Anyway, I really appreciate your thoughts and will play around with them.  I'm beginning to think the same with the catnap thing- and think maybe an earlier bedtime instead may make more sense.  Yesterday was an interesting day as Phoenix (my DS) had two pretty lousy 45 min naps instead of his usual 1.5 hours and was super tired... I tried to get him to catnap around 4:00 but he wouldn't do it so instead I put him to bed at 5:45pm! A full hour and a half earlier than normal, but he conked right out... The night wasn't great- 4 wakings, two of them for 2 hours each, but he did sleep until 7am which is late for him, so even with the NW he got more hours in than usual.
So... I think my new approach is: two naps, and depending on how they go will determine nap time.  If they are good, try for 7pm or so, but if not good, earlier watching for his signs... In terms of night time wakings and feedings- I'm still not sure what to do... we do feed him earlier now as your earlier suggestion- so usually around 10pm but so far that has only seemed to make his next waking earlier... around 12-1: basically at best he seems to be in a 3 hour cycle at night- which means we deal with his being awake at least an hour until we feed him.  All I can do is hope this changes!  I'll keep tracking things, hoping to find a pattern to help him go a bit longer at night.... I mean part of me thinks- why not feed him every time he wakes, that way I'm not up 2-4 hours a night!  But I'm afraid if I do, his sleeping times will start to decrease (?).
Anyway, thanks again for thinking of me and for being such a great support.
Sarah

[twinkleprincess]

I am by no means an expert & only have a 10wk old who is an absolute pain in the bottom when it comes to naps & sleep in general!!  Our health visitor keeps saying he's one of those that's too alert for his age & just doesn't need the sleep even though I clearly point out that he'll nap for 30mins wake all jolly but not go back off to sleep so wait the 20mins for him to start getting upset then go & do shh/pat after 15mins of it he's still awake & it's only 30mins from Eat time so no point in continuing as he won't sleep if he's hungry.  So we get him up, feed him & he starts dozing on the bottle..try to keep him awake for a bit then we put him down for a nap & we start all over again!!  Again he's one of those that you can't just keep filling up!  If we cluster feed he'll not take so much at the next feed! These babies are real hard work & very trying at times!
Anyway, back to you......is your LO on solids??  Not sure where you are but in UK it's recommended BF babies are weaned at 6mth & I noticed that your LO is 7mth.  If so have you thought about giving him a solid feed a bit later in the day or even at the 10pm DF-maybe some baby rice to sit a bit heavier in his belly.  Also because he doesn't seem to take much food - could just be getting the thirst quenching bit have you consider introducing a bottle or 2 of formula so that you can monitor how much he's getting & try to fill him up with that.  Know it might not be a route you want to take but seeing as you appear to be at the end of your wits (as anyone in your boat would be!) it might be an option worth trying!
Anyway, I hope things improve for you all & sorry if my post is of no use or interest but I just felt for you when I read your post!
Kate x

[dorninger]

thanks twinkle for your ideas and support.  very nice to get compassion right now. We have introduced solids- for the last 2 weeks or so... he still BF as his primary nourishment but we are definitly increasing his solids steadly.  We actually did try formula a while back when I was having some milk production issues and he had a bad reaction to it, so no go there... HOWEVER I have to tell you and Layla that last night was amazing!!
He only woke two times last night (11:15 and 2:00- we fed him both times) and only fussed and stayed awake for 15 minutes!!!! The only change was that he stayed up much later last night.  We went to a barbaque (fathers day) last night and got home at 7:15- his normal bedtime.  So I skipped the massage and bath and went right for a change and feed and got him in bed at 7:45.  He then just played and sang  to himself for an hour, probably unwinding from the stimulating party and then without fuss went to sleep at 8:45!   
SOOOO- What to make of this... Put him down later?  Go to parties everynight?   I'm not sure... But I'm happy and so is he today.. Maybe this is just his fathers day gift to us?

[Layla]

Sarah, thats wonderful news!

I think getting rid of the catnap and spacing out the naps during the day would help. I am afraid if you put him to bed past his bedtime everynight, he will get overtired and it might get worse. He might have been pooped & so thats what made me think that if he's not catnapping, he's not getting so much daytime sleep so should have more solid sleep at night....

About solid & formula - I wouldn't advise it. I think the last solid meal should be around 5pm & tbh, I've never heard of feeding solids at a DF. Feeding solids too late in the day can cause uncomfort & I was told to add a few teaspoons of rice cereal to the milk as well but then she woke 2hrs later & threw up all over me . Babies also become much more efficint at emptying the breast as they get older so I am sure he is getting what he needs as long as he not being BF every 1-2hrs & not snacking.

Sarah, I have to go now so may not reply for a few hours. Jasmine screamed out & woke me up and its only 4:34am here so I might get some more sleep before I am up for the day.

You're doing great! I am so pleased he was able to give you guys some rest 

[dorninger]

Layla
Sounds like you were up early!  I hope you got some more zzz's... I have always loved the name Jasmine...
So, we will go with the new plan of skipping catnaps and see how it goes.  I'll log and let you know how it goes in a couple days.
All my best.
Sarah

[Layla]

Sorry Sarah... don't want to be annoying . Just want to give an indication of the A times if he's dropping the catnap (so that he's not up a long stretch before beditme & getting overtired). Its about 3hrs (other than the morning A time which is usually a little shorter, 2.5ish hrs)

9-10.30 - morning nap
1.15/1.30 - 3ish - afternoon nap
6.30ish - bedtime

Good luck

[dorninger]

That's prettty much the opposite of annoying.  You're awesome.  Thanks for making that clear.

[dorninger]

well, I couldn't go a full few days without another post with more questions 
So we did the new sch yesterday:  Here's how it went
9-11 S
2-2:50 S (tried and tried to extend it, no go)
6:15pm S (after only 15 min of mild fuss)
8:40 awake- hysterical crying, really quite bad (we had still cluster fed and another bf right before bed)
Would not calm down until being fed at 10:40 (the whole time I basically knew he probably would not go back to sleep until I fed him... )
10:40-2:40 S (good stretch!)
2:40 awake, feed
5:30 awake, up for day

So, two questions:  It seems he just likes to be fed every 3-4 hours at night.  Should I just give in to this even though it may mean 3 night feedings?  If I do, do you think he may then start waking more often?

He averages only 9-9.5 hours of sleep a night.  By pushing his bedtime earlier I wonder if I'm shooting myself in the foot by having him wake up even earlier.  5:30 is rough for me.

I'm okay to give this a few more days if you think things may switch around, but I need a little encouragment to do so

I realize his afternoon nap wasn't good.  So today I will limit his morning nap to 1.5 hours and see if that helps.

Thanks!

[Layla]

Hey, I am glad you posted.

The afternoon nap is always hard! The morning nap is usually the easiest to get but I agree with you in that if he's taking a short pm nap, that could be an indication that the mornign nap was too long. You might also want to try w2s for the pm nap. I had to do that a few times cause Jasmine was stuck on the 45min pm nap & it was purely habitual. So I used to go into her room at 30mins & stir her (move her blanket or stroke her palm or cheek) and then leave. Just make sure you don't wake him. You just want to stir him so that he's in and out of the cycle. Anyways, it will take a couple of days to catch up on sleep. Its great that he had an early night. I persoanlly wouldn't do a feed any less than 4hrs... he really should be able to do 6hrs so I would do pu/pd rather than feed every 3-4hourly. It can become a habit (again).

9hrs at night is not enough - he should be getting at least 10.5-11hrs at night.

Let me know how it goes with the nap today 

[dorninger]

Hello dear Layla
Well, it's been a rough one.  Here's how the last two days and nights went.  As you will see the naps have been spot on, and the first night not bad, but last night was terrible...
5:30am awake
6:40-7:00 catnap (not intentional- in the stroller)
9:00-10:30am nap
1:20-3:20pm nap (terrific!)
6:45-10:05pm sleep
10:05-10:45pm awake
10:45 feed
10:45-1:45 sleep
1:45am awake- replace paci, back asleep easily
3:00 awake, feed
6:20 awake for day

yesterday:
8:50-10:20 nap
2:00-3:30 nap (put down at 1:30- took 30 min to fall asleep)
6:50 sleep
7:20-8:10 awake, crying hard (this is unusual- only 30 min after going to sleep, it doesn't seem to me that he should be OT ... ?)
9:15 awake, replace paci
10:15-10:40 awake
10:40 feed
12:30-1:30 awake, crying on and off
1:30 feed (i gave in, i really was tired hadn't slept much at all)
4:00-4:30 awake
4:30 feed only 1 oz (i gave in again, but also wanted to see, was he really that hungry again, so only gave him an ounce and he fell back asleep- hum...)
6:20 awake for day...
So once again I'm wondering what I'm missing here?  Especially because the naps have been so good.  He really doesn't seem to be teething.... it is hot here so maybe that's part of it?  He also is a bit constipated, he hasn't had a BM in 3 days- we go through this now and then since he's been on solids, so maybe his tummy hurts?.... I don't know.
Now for part two of this post entitled
"What the Heck are we thinking??!!"
Okay, so I have to also tell you that in a week we are travelling from the US to Austria for two weeks... UGG.  I mean I'm excited, but of course feel a good amount of dread concerning what this will do to poor Phoenix's sleep.  I just thought I'd mention this as it's coming up, I'll be out of touch for a while, and I thought you should now the whole story.
Hoping things are well over there with you and yours.
Sarah

[Layla]

Hey Sarah

So once again I'm wondering what I'm missing here?  Especially because the naps have been so good.  He really doesn't seem to be teething.... it is hot here so maybe that's part of it?  He also is a bit constipated, he hasn't had a BM in 3 days- we go through this now and then since he's been on solids, so maybe his tummy hurts?.... I don't know.

His naps are good indeed! I would say if he hasn't had a BM in 3 days, that might have something to do with it? Do you give him water at all? Maybe try prune jiuce (diluted) or some prunes in the morning so he does a BM at least once during the day. What type of solids do you give & when (sorry if I asked this before).

[dorninger]

He had 2 bms today, so we'll see if that helps (although as I write he has been awake for more than an hour 2 hours after falling asleep- so it's not looking amazing)

Yes, we give him lots of prunes actually, mixed in all his other food- prune juice, stewed mashed prunes... also dilute all his food with water, although I just started pure water in a sippy cup today.  Other than that he has had apples, pears, carrots and squash- again, all mixed with water and prunes... I give him 1-2 oz's of food one to two times a day- I try to do pretty soon after feeding but sometimes it's an hour or so after.   I think food is still just so new for his little digestive track, you know... plus I should say, I have a fairly little guy- he's been a little slow in most milestones (but of course he is incredibly brillant )... he's 7.5 months and about 16lbs... for what that is worth...

I know I keep saying this, but here it is again.... he just seems hungrey when he wakes!  Ugg... I just don't know what the right thing to do is, but we are getting so frustrated!

[Layla]

Sarah, I've asked someone else to look at the post to see if I'm missing something I am sorry its taking so long to work the NW's out & he could very well be hungry at night but he should be able to do longer than 3hrs.

[Layla]

Sarah, does he have milk every 4hrs & then solids 1hr after BF?

[dorninger]

thank you layla- i also went ahead and posted something in breastfeeding board to see if they had any thoughts- but please know how much i've appreciated you and your help!

so yes, here's the food scheldue
7:00 bf (he barely takes any here- maybe 3 minutes)
11:00 bf (5-10 minutes as for the rest of the bfs)
12:00 solids- 1-2 oz
3:00 bf
sometimes another solid here,sometimes not
5:00 bf
6:30 bottle with breastmilk in it 4-5 oz
10:30 bottle 3-5 oz
2:30 bottle 3-4oz

[Layla]

Sarah, how are you doing?