NW - wet nappy, overtired, milestone??

[DavidsMum]

I am not sure what is going on with my 9 mo DS.

Our sleep and routine got all messed up whilst he was sick and Peike has helped me get him back to independant sleeping and I am trying o get him into some routine.

0630 - wake (not my ideal but he seems to like it)
0900 - nap 1
1300 - nap 2
1830 - bed (seems to work best for him)

I can not get him to take a catnap any more no matter how hard I try and how long it has been since his nap, once he has had the 2 that is it until bedtime. Hence I am trying o stick to the 9 and 1300 nap times.

During sickness we had many NW, first because he was sick and then because he was in the habit of cuddling to sleep. We fixed that but now he is waking again. He puts himself back to sleep but wakes 45mins later, takes a little longer to get back to sleep then wakes another 45mins later and so on. Somewhere between 4 and 530am he decides he has had enough and tries hard but fails to get back to sleep and cries out.

Also he has a really wet nappy. This is odd as from very early on I noticed he would always wake in the morning with a dry nappy. I don't know if the wet nappy is waking him or the NW is then resulting in a wet nappy.

Last night he woke at 1am (I actualy got up and changed him in the hope that it was the nappy waking him and that he would then sleep through). He was asleep by 130 but then I hearfd him at 3 and 4. And I am not sure he actually got back to sleep after 4 although he tried. by 5 he was really awake so I tried BF  andthen back in cot, but although he tried he could not get back to sleep. Eventually I got him to sleep at 615 and he woke at 7.

Then I tried to settle him at 9, he finally slept at 915 but woke at 935. I tried PUPD (which is working now thanks Pieke) and he slept another 15mins and then we just could not get any more sleep and I had to take him to the doctor anyway.

I then put him down at 1245 (I know I said I was sticking to 1300 but he was so tired and it took until 1300 for him to sleep). He woke at 45mins, PUPD and still asleep 20mins later.

I also should add he has been on prednisolone the last week (it didn't help his croup and so the doctor has stopped it). Also he is just starting to crawl on all fours.

So is the NW due to wet nappy, overtiredness as he is not sleeping well at night or day, the meds or the crawling???

I was going to give up on this sticking to routine but DH (who hasn't been overly supporive in the past) stated that he could see an improvement and that I should stick to it for the full 2 weeks like I had planned.

I think he was particulalry impressed that he did PUPD the other night and had such success (1 PU and back to sleep!).

Any thoughts or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

I know this is a long post but I figured it was best to cover as much as possible. 

[Layla]

So is the NW due to wet nappy, overtiredness as he is not sleeping well at night or day, the meds or the crawling???

Babies cannot control their bladder so they will urinate regardless of wether they are asleep or not. I don't thing the frequent nightwakings are making him urinate more. If you are finding though that his nappy is very wet in the morning, then try to limit drinks before bedtime. Of course he might have the bottle before bed but I usually stop water intake around 5.30-6pm.

Overtiredness from not sleeping well during the day/night & crawling, I would say contribute more towards the nightwaking. I am not very familiar with the meds... did you notice his sleep changing when he was on meds? I would talk to the doc about that....

Taking a catnap at 9 months didn't work for us either, so I would start with giving him an earlier beditme. Try 6pm if he's taking a short morning & pm nap. I think he may also need a little more A time during the day. He should be able to handle 3hrs in the morning & pm, so you'd have naps at 9:30-10.30am & 1.30/2pm-3/3.30pm and bedtime 6.30/7pm.

I was going to give up on this sticking to routine but DH (who hasn't been overly supporive in the past) stated that he could see an improvement and that I should stick to it for the full 2 weeks like I had planned

I am all for routine. I think babies thrive on it and I wouln't completely throw the towel in, lol. Try things out and I usually give it about 3-4 days & then reassess what I've done and if it has worked. I am a big plan person so I write things down when something goes sour and go from there.

I would continue with pu/pd to extend naps and for nightwakings. It could also be that he is going through regression (if pu/pd was something recent).

He puts himself back to sleep but wakes 45mins later, takes a little longer to get back to sleep then wakes another 45mins later and so on. Somewhere between 4 and 530am he decides he has had enough and tries hard but fails to get back to sleep and cries out.

Waking up every 45mins is normal as he is waking between cycles but having a "hard" time falling back asleep does sound like he is overtired. I would aim for him to be asleep by 6.30pm (if not 6pm)  for a few days so that he catches up on some sleep and then start stretching his naps during the day.

When he wakes in between naps, do you attend to him regardless of wether he is crying or not (and do pu/pd) or do you leave him to see if he will fall asleep on his own?

Milestones can certainly have an effect on naps & there is not much you can do there but let him have his practise. The novelty of being able to crawl will wear off soon...

Layla

[donna_issabella]

What dose of prednisolone did he take and at what times?

[DavidsMum]

Thanks for replying ladies.

I managed a 15 min catnap 1645-1705 today so will see if that makes a difference.


At night he is left to it unless he really gets upset. During the day he is waking up and yelling straight away. That is how i know he is needing more sleep, it is a different wake up to when he has had enough sleep. I leave him a little but I can pretty much tell by  the way he wakes whether he will be needing me or not.

The prednisolone he was taking 2mL after dinner for 5 nights then as that didn't work we had 2 days of 2mL morning and night. I know when I was on this as a teenager it made me wake at night and very hungry during the day. Oh yeah and pee more often.

It has been 6 days of trying to stick to this routine, but he was overtired to begin with.

I will try an earlier bedtime tomorrow. I doubt I'll manage more A time in the morning until he gets better sleep at night, he is just too tired as it is.

It is now 8pm and he is already doing first NW.

[donna_issabella]

Hi there, sorry you are struggling!!!

yep, unfortunately as great as steroids can work when given in the right dose and for the right ailments, it has the lovely side effects as you have mentioned above on top of the rest. That is why i asked what time of the day, as we generally prescribe it as a once daily in the morning dose. Is he off the meds yet?

I agree with Layla that due to the preceding days' events, he is probably well overtired by now. The issue is probably also that when he starts taking decent naps again, i am sure he is hitting the age of dropping his catnap.

Sorry not able to help much, except confirm that the steroids probably not helping your nights at the moment. Can take upto a week to wash out of the system too, so bear in mind when you stop the meds. BTW, does he have asthma? or did I read croup somewhere?

I will try an earlier bedtime tomorrow. I doubt I'll manage more A time in the morning until he gets better sleep at night, he is just too tired as it is.

absolutely!! good luck with that!!!

xx
DI

[DavidsMum]

Thanks Di I feel better that you acknowledge these side effects, our GP just said that the steroids wouldn't have been responsible for any of that. Yes it is croup, but his sinuses have been congested for about 6 weeks now. And the peadiatrician is sure he will have asthma as he has eczma and dairy allergies and a family history.

We had a better night last night, now he is off the prednisolone I gave him some antihistamine and decongestant before bed then he needed a top up at 1240am and didn't call out again until 6am. I think he may have woken at around 430 briefly but to be honest the nights are getting blurred and mixed into my dreams so who knows.

Oh yeah and his nappy was dry this morning!!

He was yawning at 830 but I pushed him to 9. I think it was one of Layla's posts I read that said to really stimulate them in the morning and push the nap back as far as possible so I gave that a try.

We are off for some allergy testing after this nap, maybe something external is aggravating his sinuses?

I'll let you know what this next 24 hours brings us in an update tomorrow.

[Layla]

I am glad he slept till 6am.

Di, thats interesting about steroids. I was going to Google it last night just after I posted but Dh got impatient and wanted us to start watching "heroes" (& for the 2nd time ever he made me dinner as well, lol).

Will be waiting for the update
Layla

[donna_issabella]

Great news, and good luck, davidsmum, keep us posted! good luck also with all the allergy tests! hopefully the steroids have helped a bit with the sinus probs!

Layla, hubby has been taping ALL the Heores programmes, as he likes that genre. don't know if he has managed to watch any of them as yet!!! Do you enjoy it?

Hope you get some sleep tonight!!

xx
DI

[Layla]

Layla, hubby has been taping ALL the Heores programmes, as he likes that genre. don't know if he has managed to watch any of them as yet!!! Do you enjoy it?

Its not too bad. I liked it at the start but towards the end i kinda lost interest . He loves it though... I just can't see it going beyond another season, but then again, I didn't think "Lost" was going anywhere either and apparently its really good. I can't wait for october cause thats when we buy "House" from the US and I watch that one after another. Also for the past 2 months, I've been watching "24". Now that was GOOD!!!!

Anyways, off the topic here 

[Colin Macs Mom]

but then again, I didn't think "Lost" was going anywhere either and apparently its really good.

Apparently?? APPARENTLY?? It's only the best show that's been on TV in years!!!

[Layla]

but then again, I didn't think "Lost" was going anywhere either and apparently its really good.

Apparently?? APPARENTLY?? It's only the best show that's been on TV in years!!!

LOL Jess, still haven't seen an episode.... maybe I should start 

[Colin Macs Mom]

Um YES!!!!

[DavidsMum]

So I wasn't going to update today as I am feeling so fed up with it all...and besides you have terrible TV habits...except House, he is cool but our programmers give us a new episode every fortnight and make us watch repeats in the alternate weeks...what is with that?.

Anyway morning naps seem to be going well, today and yesterday both an hour long.

But arvo nap is a whole other thing. Lots of protesting and then 30mins yesterday PUPD another 30mins and that was it.
Just finally got him off after 45mins of protesting today so I don't know how long that will last.

Last night in bed at 610 then awake at 305...very loud trying to get back to sleep noises then crying at 325. Super wet nappy changed then took 30mins to calm down to getting to sleep but never quite made it as he was fussing at 355 and crying again at 425.

I decided he was probably too cold...I know I was still trying to warm up after the first round...so another layer of clothing and cuddles to warm with body heat. He fell asleep during cuddles...I know its a prop...probably asleep by 440 then awake at 555 (I think) I got up for him at 630 but I am sure I heard him earlier.  Held off the BF to 650 though so hopefully that will help tomorrow morning.

So I am hoping it was just the cold, I already had him slightly overdressed to what the grobag guidelines suggest, but tonight I will go an extra layer.

But what about the arvo naps Any thoughts?

I thought yesterday may have been as he didn't get to do much as he was in the car or at the allergy clinic pretty much the whole time. Today we went to the pool but then I guess it was a reasonable car ride home again. Or maybe once he starts catching up on sleep he realises how tired he is.

If he doesn't sleep well this arvo then I'll go early bed again tonight I guess.

[DavidsMum]

Now I am desperate.

Our 430 NW turned into a 430 EW today!!

I am going to give you every detail as maybe I am missing something that you will pick up on

Yesterday arvo nap was just over an hour....so more day sleep than any other day this past week.

I was planning on a 6pm bedtime but DH came home after 2 nights in Canberra and DS was so excited to see him it made the evening process a little slower than usual. So bed was 627 with 15mins of dadadad to get to sleep.

Then the NW:
420 – very loud mm mmm mm trying to get back to sleep noises – phantom cries – more mm mmm mm noises

435 – yelling for mum who takes her time and goes to the loo first just to ensure she is not rushing in. Now this is all in the dark – no night light is turned on as it stimulates him – so he can not see me only hear and feel me – and me him. Oh and he should not be cold as it was 19C in there and he was dressed very warmly and in grobag.

Quick cuddle then on back for nappy change – screaming – crying and carrying on all through nappy change – which was super wet.

Quick cuddle – tries to burrow in so can be cuddled to sleep (this is what we did when he was sick). As soon as put down starts screaming. Reassuring hand turns into play thing and then wants to hold to go to sleep. As soon as he calms down I remove my hand (don’t want this becoming a prop) he rolls over and starts to go to sleep. It sounds like he is asleep – I have no concept of time if I am in his room but just when I think he is asleep he starts fussing, rolling around,  phantom cries, then yelling again. I try shhh shh but that just makes him louder.

Another quick cuddle – again tries to burrow in for sleep – so I know he is not hungry or in pain – just being a pain. Back in cot and screaming.  Go through  the same as above and then just as I am sure he is asleep starts fussing again.

522 –  Screaming. I will not pick him up again as it just makes it worse as he wants cuddles to sleep. I just stay there reassuring and rest hand on him. This is full on only stop to catch our breath screaming.

600 – still screaming when DH’s alarm goes off. DH stays in bed as long as possible as he knows I am trying to settle DS.

630 – too many lights, bathroom noises etc. = up for the day.

Wasn’t sure when to put him down again but we only made it to 830....who knows how long this sleep will last.

I am wondering if it is a carry over from the cuddles to sleep whilst sick. Once he was better he was waking several times during the night and wanting cuddles back to sleep, I basically did the CIO whilst mum reassures thing and he slept through after 2 nights of that.

What do you think / suggest?


 

[DavidsMum]

He slept for 45mins and I tried to get him back to sleep for an hour.

I feel like by giving in again I am reinforcing that if he fights long enough he'll get what he wants.

He is sooooooo tired now he doesn't want to do anything.

I did work out what he is doing at night when I think he is going to sleep.....he lies there with his eyes open for up to 15mins and as they slowly start drooping and I think YES he then springs wide awake and wants to play.

I really don't know where to take it from here....I do not understand why after 9 months he has decided not to be a sleeper anymore......I feel like we are stuck in this perpetuating cycle where he is so tired he can not sleep and then he just gets more tired.......I am desperate for some sleep