6mo frequent night wakings HELP!

[awake13]

I have been reading some here and will read more but my husband and I need immediate help.  We have a girl that's 5 and boy who's 3.  Both were fair sleepers as babies.  3yr old had severe reflux for the first year.
Our 6mo old has been getting worse at night time sleeping.  The wakings are at different times each night, but so frequent.  We have a very structured routine since he was born.  7:30pm bath, feeding, 8:00pm bed.  He falls fast asleep before he's done feeding so he goes to sleep before I can put him in the crib.  Some nights he's back awake at 9:15pm or 10:30pm and goes on every hour all night.  It's tough to figure out a pattern.  We have tried everything, except change the bedtime routine.  We have let him cry it out for hours, we tried this 3 weeks.  It didn't improve one bit.  Right now we are caving in for the past few days(dependency).  We don't know what to do.  He is such an angel during the day barely ever cries.  I know some might say teething but, but it has been like this for the last six months.  I know some might say reflux, but he is in zero pain during the day.  Help please what can we do

[em_here]

Hi there, maybe its because he falls asleep in your arms on the bottle, and associates this with how he should fall asleep at night IYKWIM. Does he put himself back to sleep at all at night, or put himself to sleep in the daytime or is the bottle always used? It was just a thought, I didn't know about the BW methods when I had my DS and I bottle fed him to sleep at naptime and night time which caused him to have such a dependancy on it that he would scream for it every time he happened to go into a light sleep cycle, it was mad!

[vmarcel]

Hi I just posted something a little similar... (6mth old with reflux) My heart goes out to you!
Our lo wakes every hour too and we were considering letting him cry it out (5, 10 , 15mn) but always chicken out because of his reflux. It's interesting to know it didn't work for you to do that.

So how does yours go back to sleep? does he have a prop (pacifier)?

[Layla]

Hi there & welcome to the boards! I am sorry to hear you are having some sleep troubles at the moment. Hopefully we can help you get through this .

We have let him cry it out for hours, we tried this 3 weeks.  It didn't improve one bit.  Right now we are caving in for the past few days(dependency).  We don't know what to do.

I would strongly advise you against this method of sleep training. Even Ferber himself didn't recommend this method until the baby is 6 months. There are much gentler ways to teach him how to sleep at night. If you could please post his daily schedule for us, there might be something that needs tweaking. A good bedtime routine is not all there is to a good night sleep. If he is not napping well, his nights will be affected.

Layla

[awake13]

Thanks for the concern
His schedule:5:30 am wake up & nurse
     8:00 am fruit cereal,breast  8:30am nap 3/4 hour,  10:30am breast  12:30pm solids, breast, nap 1/2hr,
   3:00pm breast     5:30pm solids, breast nap 1/2 hour   7:30 bath, breast, bed,  usually by 9:00pm he has woke up once.
He can get back to sleep if we go in and rub his back, but this has only been the last few nights

[Layla]

I think the napping might be the issue here. At 6 months, most do 2 long naps and a catnap. So try to aim for something like this:

5:30am - wake for the day & BF
8:30am - morning nap (45mins)
9:15am - wake from nap
12pm - afternoon nap (this one I would extend to 1.5hrs)
1.30pm - wake from nap
3pm - catnap (45mins)
3:45pm - wake from nap
6pm - bedtime

Him taking a 30min nap during the day is an indication of overtiredness. I would bring the naps to an earlier hour and he might actually take a longer nap. Once he is better rested you can work on pushing his day forward by starting to stretch his morning, afternoon, catnap & subsequently the bedtime hour in 15mins increments until you come to a 7pm bedtime and 6am wake up. Does he return back to sleep when you BF him in the morning at 5:30am?

If he is overtired he might need an earlier bedtime for about 3-4days to allow him to catch up on some sleep and he should sleep more peacefully at night.

So if he wakes 45mins into the morning nap and you can't successfully extend that nap (with patting, etc...) then put him to nap earlier (as per schedule). If you can get him to sleep longer in the morning, then the pm nap can be taken a little later as well (& so will the catnap). The av A times for a 6mo is 2.5hrs. The morning A time is usually the shortest but I wouldn't personally put him down any earlier than 8:30am because then the whole day is thrown off

Is he being BF at naps as well? If yes, I would try and break that association. He should be feeding every 3hrs and I wouldn't let him BF to sleep for naps or at bedtime. It might be a prop & he's probably snacking rather than having solid milk meals.

Let me know what you think
Layla

[awake13]

I am going to try tommorow
Right now 12:30am he has been up for 1hr.  nothing is calming him down.

[Layla]

Hang in there. Pick him up and hold him until he is calm and then put him down.

[awake13]

what if he goes crazy everytime i put him down this goes for hours.

[Layla]

Is there anything else that could be wrong? Could he be in pain, teething or ear infection?

[awake13]

Nothing else seems to be wrong.  I have had him checked out.  No ear infections,  I don't believe he is teething(I am a dentist),  It doesn't seem he is in pain because during the day he is fine.  Well I have been all over the place with him.  It's just getting worse.  I think I need serious help with him.  I am so turned around and confused.  I don't even think he and I are on a routine anymore.  I am trying all you have said.  But he is really fighting me on everything.  I just started trying PU/PD .  I am putting him down right away.  Everytime for two hours he crys before he even touches the crib.  I touch him and reassure.  How long before I pick up again, if he is screaming.  I think were going to break the record.  I have read if they cry for a long time they burn a lot of calories, should I introduce I night feeding.  When I PU/PD do I cradle/ hold on shoulder?  Is there any professionals in New Jersey USA that can help onsite.
I know it is tough and were hanging in.
Thanks for eveything so far.

[Layla]

Have you tried to give him an earlier bedtime? Is he falling asleep at the breast? 1 nightfeed is not uncommon at 6 months... he could be going through a growth spurt. I might get someone to explain pu/pd a little more.

Hang in there

[Jaime]

hi awake13,

i think layla is right on the mark with the napping.... i noticed you have 3 hrs of awake time before your first nap, and that's probably way too long for a 6 month old; usually they tend to have no more than 2 hrs before that first nap.  then, if they are overtired, their nap is too short, because they cannot get into a good deep sleep.  this just turns into a viscious cycle - more short naps, and the naps are not restorative either.  this also fits with your lo falling asleep on the bottle for the night; he wakes up at the end of his sleep cycle because he does not know how to transition into the next sleep cycle without the bottle in his mouth.

The wakings are at different times each night, but so frequent.

more 'random' waking, as you describe it, can actually indicate hunger.  there is a growth spurt at 6 months; any chance you can up his feeding a bit during the day?

I just started trying PU/PD .  I am putting him down right away.  Everytime for two hours he crys before he even touches the crib.  I touch him and reassure.  How long before I pick up again, if he is screaming.

this is a link to a sleep interview with tracy; it has a lot of details on implementing pu/pd that should help clarify quite a bit for you.  i realize it is long, but that is because it is so full of good stuff!! 
https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=451.0

We have let him cry it out for hours, we tried this 3 weeks.  It didn't improve one bit.  Right now we are caving in for the past few days(dependency).

in the long run, pu/pd will be much gentler on your baby, because you will be right there with him, helping him learn how to go to sleep on his own.  from everything you describe, i don't believe that he actually does know how to go to sleep independently - and then stay asleep.  (and i'm sure it doesn't help that you have 2 older ones running around as well! )

i picked those particular words to quote because in order for things to change, it is going to take a lot of work.  pu/pd will work, but it will be a hard road to travel.  he will cry - he does not understand what you are doing, and why you are doing it differently.  you will cry, because you are frustrated & tired of the whole thing.

to say it again.... this WILL work, but it depends on you formulating a plan, learning how to watch your baby's cues, and then staying consistent and persistant 100% of the time.

anyhow, have a read & then we can help you clarify anything from that point.  you CAN do this!!