3 mo old went from sleeping 8 hrs back to 5!!

[MJMom]

Our DD was sleeping fantastically at night when on 3 - 3.5 hr EASY.  11 days ago, she just kind of went to 4 hr EASY.  She didn't seem like she was hungry at 3.5 hrs, and she was taking longer to go down for her nap.  So, to get her full nap in, 4 hr made sense, so her schedule was looking more like EASASY.  This seemed to be working OK though.

For the last 4 nights, she has been waking up at 1:00 very hungry.  The first night I thought maybe it was a growth spurt.  The second night I let it go for the same reason.  Last night was the 4th night now and it has gotten worse.  She now also is waking at 4:30.  Not hungry, but just awake and then she sleeps fitfully and wakes up about every hour and then eats at breakfast.

She is 12 weeks old.  I'm starting to think that this may have been too early for 4 hr EASY?  Although she didn't start to wake at night for a week after she was on 4 hr EASY, nothing else has changed in her schedule.  I don't do the dream feed either, but I haven't been doing that for about 4 weeks. 

Her schedule for the past 10 days has looked basically like this with a 15 +/- min. adjustment depending on what we had going on that day.  And generally, she hasn't asked to eat.  It was just the 4 hr mark and I fed her.  When we were on 3 hr EASY, she always asked to be fed.

E 7:30 - Very quick efficient - eats off both breasts
A 7:45 - Sometimes active with tummy time and gymini, sometimes playing in mommy's lap with a soft toy or mommy's fingers
S 8:30

E  11:30 - Sometimes both breasts or just one.
A  11:50 - Most active play time with tummy time and "walking" on lap
S  12:30

E  3:30
A  4:00 - Quick walk in the neighborhood.  Sometimes fall asleep in the stroller before reaching home.
S  4:45

E  7:30 - This sometimes would take longer in the evening feed - typically both breasts
A  7:50 - Massage/Bath/night time clothes/story/song/bed
S  8:15

The difference between last week and this week is last week her next E would be at 4:ish to 5:ish.  The last week it has been 1:00 and then wakings between 3:30 - 4:30 where I either soothed her back to sleep or fed her.  The 1:00 feed has been both breasts and ravenous.  This morning's 7:30 feed was both breasts, but she was not ravenous. 

Also, I should mention, her actual nap time has never been longer than 2 hrs although it may indicate as such above.  When she is not sleeping, she has quiet time in her crib playing by her self and cooing and most recently fun with hands.  She seems to enjoy her quiet time, so I don't interrupt her as she will otherwise be grumpy.  It either is 45 min. sleeping, 30-60 min. quiet awake time, and 45-60 sleep.  Or, it's 90 min sleep with remaining time awake.  This is the biggest variant, but she has at least 1 90 min nap a day, and the rest are 45 minutes separated with quiet time.

My thought for today is to put her back on 3.5 hr EASY and then incorporate the DF back in consistently.  But I wanted to see if there is any thing else that I might be missing or should consider?

Thanks for any help!

[momofclaire]

I think it is possible that she is not ready for the 4 hour easy. 
I would give that a try but it will probably take a week to set it. KWIM?  Also, I would try to make sure her naps are over an hour. Quiet time is good but it doesn't restore them the way sleep does and overtired can mean nightwaking.

[MJMom]

Thanks!  I just want to make sure I'm heading down the right path and not messing it up more.  At least one nap is a good one.  most of the time two are good naps.

Thanks for the confirmation!

[Katet]

The growth spurt at 3months old is very big & somewhat erratic from my memory, so it could well be that too, so it my help if she goes to 3hours for a while. I know with both my children the 3mo GS lasted about 1 week long

[MJMom]

Thanks Kate!  I thought of that too, but I also thought that GS's only lasted 2 days.  I didn't know they could last up to a week.  I guess going to 3 1/2 hr EASY will help milk production too!

[MJMom]

HELP!  I can't tell if it's getting worse or better?!?!?  I started 3.5 hr EASY when I posted this 4 days ago and added back in a dream feed.  LO was fine with that.  The first night she woke up at 2:30 and was CRYING for 30 minutes.  It was definitely not a hunger cry.  I was sort of expecting that though being the first night and anticipated it being rough.  The last 4 nights though has been LO waking somewhere between 2:30 and 3:30, not hungry, but either crying or just waking and not settling back down.  Then the rest of the night is her waking up in 45 - 60 min. intervals.  I am REALLY trying to pay attention to the cry so I get the difference in the cross-over from "I'm tired" to "I'm hungry".  That has occurred any where between 4:30 - 6:30.   So I feel like she is capable of sleeping through to 4:30 - 6:30.  (Which is where she was at before this whole thing stated!)  4 nights now of this, and 4 nights previously of the extra wakings, I'm starting to feel like I have 3 week old all over again, and she's 3 months!
Do I just need to keep this up for a few more days, or is there something else I'm missing?
I haven't resorted to props or picking her up and rocking her or bringing her to our bed in the middle of the night.  I've been comforting her in her crib, until she either goes back to sleep or is on a calm path towards sleep where I know she'll make it herself.  I'm just used to my LO to take to changes in schedule very quickly.  E.g., she is already very used to 3.5 hr EASY already and was reminding me to feed her at the 3.5 hr mark.

Thoughts?  How many more sleepless nights?

[rooser]

Alissa, we are going through something very similar.  My 3.5 mo LO was on 3 hour EASY, then he started waking earlier from naps for about 2 weeks, now he no longer "tells" me he's hungry.  He seems bored during a lot of his A time b/c he is developmentally unable to do much but he wants to do something so I end up walking him around in the Bjorn a lot.  He used to sleep about 6 - 7 hours or so, now he's waking every hour. He is good if he's swaddled, but he keeps breaking out of his Miracle Blanket so I'm guessing he's ready to say goodbye to that, but he still doesn't have very good control of his arms and they disrupt his sleep too.  Ugh!!! I guess this is some weird transitional stage getting ready for the next growth spurt. ?  I don't think the spurt has actually hit yet, b/c he isn't really all that interested in eating like other spurts. Is there anyone out there who can offer any guidance to a couple of tired Mommies?

[momofclaire]

How do you know she isn't hungry?  Do you try to feed her?  Being that she is only 3.5 months she might need a feed overnight. Are you doing any night feeding besides the DF? 
Can you post the routine you have been on the last couple of days?

[Katet]

i always worked on the principle that at 3mo if my lo woke I'd offer a feed as bf babies go through growth spurts & can be long & irratic. I know someone whose lo went for more than 2 weeks & then went straight to 4 day feeds & no night feeds after it... rare, but it can happen.

[MJMom]

So, I kept holding off replying HOPING that the night wakings would get better and they have now gotten WORSE!!!  I feel like I'm the mom of a 6-week old, not a 14 week old.  It's 5:30 AM and I'm exhausted, but I need to know if there is any relief in sight and what I'm doing wrong!!!  Or more importantly, what can I do better!

Last night, she was waking every 3 HOURS!!!!  I don't think she has done that since she was 4 weeks old and before I even heard of BW!

Just to recap for it to all be in one post...  These are all generalities, but is the general picture of how each week was.
From 7 - 10 weeks, DD was on 3 - 3.5 Hr EASY, she slept 6-8 hours a night.  Starting week 10, there was no dream feed.  It just was easier for me for a sleep perspective so I could go to bed earlier and wake up earlier.  Naps very inconsistent.  could not sleep longer than 45 minutes for a nap.  Over the course of this time, we did LOTS of work with naps.  By the end of 10 weeks, could easily go to 90 minutes, if we were very quick to help her resettle.  Had an occasional long nap without having to help her.  Consistently gave solid day time and night time hunger cues.
Week 11, DD just easily went to a 4 Hr EASY.  I didn't try to do it, but we she just started napping a little longer one day and was no longer waking up hungry from her naps.  Sleep remained at 6-8 hrs a night.  1 - 2 naps a day was 90 - 120 minutes without parent help to resettle.  The other naps were 45 minutes with quiet time in crib.  Consistently gave night time hunger cues.  Day time hunger cues lessened.  Early morning feedings were hunger cues, later feedings were based on time to not go beyond 4 hrs.
Week 12 - DD started waking up at 1:00 AM    Since her last feeding was typically at 8:00 at that time, that was still 5 hours of sleep.  (This is also when I started this thread.) Still on 4 Hr EASY.  Naps unchanged from Week 11.  Night time hunger cues still there, Day time hunger cues inconsistent.
Week 12.5 - Moved to 3.5 Hr EASY.  Added dream feed back.  Night wakings adjusted to waking every 3.5 - 4.5 hrs.  Naps are unchanged, but seem to be getting easier.  Still showing night time hunger cues.  No longer shows day time hunger cues.  Feeding to stay within every 3.5 hrs.  No more than once a day, a feeding may go to 4 hrs or 3 hrs depending on my schedule.
Week 13 - Still on 3.5 Hr EASY.  Night wakings still at every 3.5 - 4.5 hrs.  Naps are starting to get better.  We get 2 good naps a day consistently.  Shows night time hunger cues.  Shows occasional day time hunger cues.  Maybe one towards evening.
Week 13 Day 5 (2 days ago) - Moved to 3 Hr EASY as 3.5 still has night wakings.  After reading and re-reading the sleep chapters in Tracy's 3rd book, it seems the only problem causing night wakings could possibly be hunger.  Night wakings are now every 3 hrs.  Naps are solid of 90 - 120 min. long 2-3 times a day with one 45 minutes nap.  Shows night time hunger cues, shows day time hunger cues in the evening.

DD is 100% BF. 

A times - Generally the first one is always very quiet (Since mommy is still tired!).  Includes Change of clothes, diaper change, sitting on mommy's lap singing, cooing, smiling, playing with fingers and toes.  My favorite A time!  . The 2nd one is the active one of the day.  Tummy time, "standing" assisted on her feet, some "dancing" (OK, mommy dancing, LO coming along for the ride!)  The last one is typically a massage and a bath.  The others are either a walk in the stroller, looking at pictures, meeting new people (her favorite!), or a toy or two. (her least favorite)

We're also trying to get DD to take at least one bottle of EBM a day in prep for when I go back to work.  She doesn't really care for the bottle, so it's a bit of a struggle.

Our last 2 days looked like this:

Saturday
E 3:30 AM
A
S 3:45
E 6:00 AM - Tried for 10 min. to resettle with Paci.  DD insisted she was hungry.  Seemed like a full feed
A
S 6:20 AM
E 8:05 - Not as hungry, but she is used to her breakfast (as well as Mom would like her breakfast, between 7:30 - 8:00
A 8:15 - Very quiet A time, playing with fingers
S 8:45 AM
E 11:00 AM - Attempt at EBM - .5 oz
A 11:15 AM - Gymini - Tummy time
S 12:15 - 15 min. wind down, asleep by 12:30
E 1:15 - EBM - 2.5 oz - Apparently, will eat EBM when hungry enough
A 1:35 PM - Oh look!  I remember these people!  (2 visitors)
S 2:30 PM
E 5:00 PM - BM!  YAY! 
A 5:15 PM - oh look!  I remember these people!  Yay!
S 6:00 PM
A 6:45 PM - quiet time in crib, 7:15 - up for massage/bath
E 8:00 PM
A 8:15 Wind down - Book, pray, song
S 8:25
E 10:45
A
S 11:00

Sunday
E 2:30 AM
A
S 2:45 AM
E 4:15 AM
A
S 4:25 AM
E 7:10 AM - (OYE! Early!)
A 7:25 AM - quiet play with fingers and toes
S 8:00 AM - 2 min wind down and off to dreamland
E 10:00 AM
A 10:20 AM - Gymini and tummy time
S 11:15 AM
E 1:45 PM - EBM - 2 oz
A 2:15 PM - Gymini - Walk in Bjorn
S 3:30
A 4:30 - Quiet time
E 5:15
A 5:20 - Oh look!  New people!! Yay!
S 6:00 -
E 8:15 PM
A 8:30 - Oh Look!  Same new people!  YAY!
S 9:00 PM - OYE!  Mommy I'm tired! 15 min wind down
E 10:45 PM - DF w bottle .5 oz - Had no interest.  Fought the bottle
A
S 11:10 PM

Monday (this morning
E 2:00 (what?!? so soon!!)
A
S 2:20
E 5:00 (again??  you're kidding, right?)
A
S 5:20 - Took 10 minutes to re-settle with paci
Y 5:30 - Mommy racing to BW in search of HELP!!!

Now, it is theoretically possible that she may have been over stimulated / over tired towards the end of yesterday with all the new people around, however, past experience tells me that her sleep schedule has not shown a discernible interruption from new people being around.  Contrary, she tends to sleep better after a couple of A times with new people around.  And clearly her DF was very light.

I'm not sure if her small feeds from the bottle are indicative of what she is really eating or just a reflection of how she feels about eating from the bottle.  I wanted to do a full day of eating from the bottle to see how many ozs she is taking, but I just don't think it would be an accurate count given her distaste for the bottle.  Ironically, her bottle feedings always seem to take a while because she fights the bottle.  Her bf's are generally quick and efficient, but the last couple of days, it seems she gets full quicker.  I'm guessing because I'm trying to feed her before she's ready in an effort to have her consume more during the day.  And I don't' know this for sure, but it almost seems like her day time feeds are getting shorter than they used to be.  And she's almost always only taking from one side except her night time feeds and the morning feed are from both sides.

Honestly, I didn't know how good I had it when she was on 4 Hr EASY and had at least 1 5 hr stretch.  These wakings every 3-4 hrs is getting old.  I'd love to be melodramatic and say I'm at my wits end.  I'm not... I'm just really sleepy all the time!
Side note: About kicked DH out of bed yesterday am when I was trying to nap from 8am - 10am.  DD did great!  DH snored the whole time!!!  Mommy just can't get a break!   

Any help advice is welcome!!!  Each time I've introduced the feeding change, I've kept it up for a week, but DD really takes to any changes I make right away and I pretty much make the change, she adjusts and it stays that way again until another change is introduced.  I really don't think I can keep up the sleep schedule for another 5 days waiting for things to get better! 

[Katet]

My thought is that moving her to 3 hours & use of the bottle has actually caused her to start snacking & so she isn't getting good big feeds anymore.

[MJMom]

Kate, So do you think I should move her back to 3.5 hr EASY?  And discontinue bottle for now? I'm just concerned that I have to go back to work in 3 weeks and she'll have to take a bottle at that point?

Thanks for your tips so far!!

[MJMom]

Btw, I just tried 3 hr EASY because 3.5 hr EASY didn't seem to be working.  She was waking every 3.5 hr - 4.5 hrs then.  I was thinking based on what I read in Tracy's 3rd book that it was a hunger issue.  She was eating well when she was waking. 

Thanks,

[Katet]

I'd try 3 days with bf, maybe offering a bottle say at one feed, but then topping up with a bf, to make sure she does get enough in the day. I know with my ds#1 at about 3mo I started needing to stretch him out on some feeds & that actually helped stop the night feeds... you know it doesn't need to be an exact time, with my ds#2 he did some 2.5 & others 4.5hours  around 3/4months as that was how it fitted the needs of ds#1 & also I had him doing 1 big nap & catnaps.

[MJMom]

Thanks.  we'll see how that works.

i did try shortening her feed last night and that extended her wake time a teeny bit