Weaning 5 mths, advice on ammount and times pls

[Sharoncattell]

Hii my LO is 5 mths and  I started to wean her 2 weeks ago.
She has always done well on Breast Milk but it just seemed to not be enough for her and she started to wake 3- 4 times a night with a rumbling tummy.  She is 17Ib 15oz. 

She has never slept through the night and has always woken at least once for a feed and still does now despite being given solids.  She normally wakes for a feed about 11.30pm and then wakes a couple of times in the night and I put her dummy in and she will then go off (hopefully)  She goes to sleep at 7pm and has 4 or 5 half hour naps in the day at 2 hour intervals.

I feed her as follows:


7am breast feed
11am  breast feed and solids   ( nornally carb and veg)
2.30 breast feed
5.30pm  solids (notmally baby rice and fruit)
6pm Bath
9.30pm Breast feed

the thing is my LO doesnt seem hungry at 2.30 so doesn't take afull feed, but then isn't really hungry at 5.30 either.  I don't know if I am feeding her too much or too frequently.  When she was breast fed alone she could go 4 hours and now I am giving her breast milk and solids and expecting her to go for shorter periods.

Am I getting this all wrong?  It feels like I am.  I am so concerned that she will not be getting the correct amount of breast milk as I know it is still very important.

She also seems to be more sickly.

I just wondered what kind of times other mums were doing, my head hurts!

Sharon

[Freya'sMum]

Oh bless you! It can be confusing at first,  but don't feel that you are getting it all wrong, let's see if this helps...?

Firstly, do try checking out the FAQ if you haven't done so already, there are lots of hints and tips for folk starting to introduce solid foods to their los, so you might find some useful stuff there.

In addition, here's a quick starters guide...

...most organisations now recommend delaying the introduction of solid foods until 6 months, however some babies are ready to start this process a bit earlier, others a bit later, it's a case of following your lo's cues .

Whenever you do start to introduce solid foods, it's worth remembering that you are not trying to get them to 'eat' in the same way adults do. Babies initially get all of their nutrition from their baby milk (breast or formula), and the introduction of solid foods is to get them used to different tastes and textures, and to practise using their oral muscles, in preparation for a time in the future when they do need solid foods for nutrition!

So, on that basis, the essentials are, start slowly. If you do introduce solid foods before 6 months, limit the variety so that you limit the chance of your lo developing allergies and getting digestive discomfort. After 6 months, milk is still the primary nutrition for at least another 3-4 months, so there is no rush to get her eating.

Initially offer new foods one at a time in the morning (to maximise time to see reactions, and limit digestive discomfort at bedtime), with at least a few days gap in between each new food. Offer milk first and then solid foods either immediately or within an hour afterwards, so that she fills up on milk and only tops-up with solid food, and is still hungry by her next milk feed.

Other stuff... solid foods have little comparative nutritional value to milk, so introducing them has a limited effect on helping babies sleep thru' the night, and can even increase night wakings if digestive discomfort occurs.

If she is not hungry for her milk feeds she could be topping-up with too much solid food, don't be worried about cutting back the amount, milk is more important at this age, and she won't really mind! One solid food meal a day at 5 months is perfectly acceptable, like I said above, there is no rush! And also, you don't want to risk diminishing your milk supply by her not wanting her regular milk feeds because she is full on solid foods.

HTH?

Feel free to post again if you have more questions,

Ax

[Sharoncattell]

Hi

Thank you for this, I am feeling stressed as there is so many books out there and also Health Visitors and none of them seem to say the same thing.

I am only on week 3 and I am sure I am doing it wrong (I thought I had it all sussed when I got to grips with breast feeding and then we have to wean!)

I am offering milk first now, thank you, she doesnt seem very hungry for her solids though although she will have some and then she is not hungry for her next feed?  She has always been fed 4 hourly.  How often do you recommend I feed her now and what kind of times do you suggest?  It is making me think I have weaned her too often, but then she still wakes twice in the night for a feed so she must be hungry even though she is now on soilids too.  I just dont get it.

In addidtion she seems to be sick a lot more now than she was before, in fact she was never sick before, and now she is quite a bit.

Help again.

Sharon

[Freya'sMum]

Well, I can have a go... but the most important thing is that you mustn't think you are doing it wrong!!! It really won't help you or your lo to think this, they don't come with an instruction manual, and you're right, everyone has lots of different advice! Now I'm just another person, and I have no professional basis for my ideas, so I rely mainly on common sense to muddle thru... let's see if if a bit of common sense can help eh?

...um...so dd is just over 5 months, I would still say don't think of solid food as something for her to eat! She is getting almost 100% of her nutrition from her milk feeds, so she doesn't need solid food to help her develop yet. What you are doing at this stage of introducing solid foods is just getting her used to something other than milk...

...if you think from 12 months, dd will need the nutrients from solid food because milk alone won't be enough for her healthy development, so in the months leading up to her 1st birthday, you need to introduce her to solid foods so that she's not trying to learn what they are and how to eat them at the point when she needs them - you use the 6 months or so beforehand to get her used to the taste and texture of different foods, and she learns to use her mouth to bite, chew, move food around, spit, gag and swallow, and she learns some gross and fine motor skills (sitting at the table, putting food in her mouth with hands and/or a spoon), and she learns the social aspect of eating (eating with others, talking about the day, gaining pleasure from eating etc).

So, you can introduce solid foods in several different ways, purees, finger foods, or a mixture of both - check out these 2 links for info on these approaches:

https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=92560.0

https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=57557.0

Now I'm an advocate of baby-led weaning (BLW), but dd might be a bit young for this, might not have the necessary gross/fine motor skills to handle self-feeding as she's only 5 months, but a couple of your comments make me wonder whether dd is really ready for solid foods?

1) if she's not hungry for her next milk feed after even a little bit of solid food immediately after her previous one, perhaps her little tummy just doesn't need topping up yet?

2) if she's being sick (is it immediately after her solids?) again, perhaps her little tummy doesn't need topping up, it's full enough with the milk?

3) night-wakings really aren't linked to being ready for solid foods, milk is what helps them sleep, it has far more calories and fats than most introductory weaning foods, so having a few teaspoons of rice cereal isn't gonna help her sleep thru the night - sorry, I wish it was the answer, but it's not! And also for immature tummies, solid food can cause discomfort!

So, my recommendations would be as in my first post...

1) start very slowly! There is no rush!

2) only offer a limited selection of new foods until she's at least 6 months to reduce the likelihood of any allergic reactions or digestive discomfort

3) keep her solid food intake small (tiny even!) and consider the BLW approach so that she can regulate how much she actually eats/swallows so her tummy isn't accidentally overfilled

I hope this clarifies things, Sharon, post again if you need more support!

Best wishes,

Ax

[Sharoncattell]

HI, sorry, you will get sick of me!

I am now wondering if I stated to wean her to early, as I really don't feel that she has benefited from it.  In fact since she started, apart from the first 2 nights, she seems to be worse.  I did manage at the begining to feed her just once at night and when she woke other time settle her with a dummy and a cuddle.  But whether it is coincidence or not I am not sure, but now, when she wakes up she won't settle without a feed and has a little tantrum if I try to settle her without food. Last night she woke 3 times and finally at 5.20am, I didn't but managed to settle her off for half an hour after about 45 minutes of trying.

She seems more unsettled in the day too, very wingey (if thats how you spell it) won't go to anyone except me half the time and doesn't want to be left to play on he mat or anything.

I still cant get her to sleep longer than 30 mins at a time in the day, will this affect her night sleep?

Sharon

[Sharoncattell]

sorry, me again.  If I decided to take a step back and stop weaning her, can I do that?  Or now I have started should I just carry on?

Can I do BLW when she is not yet 6 months?  What would I give her.  I have looked on a couple of web sites and it has food for 6 mths but not earlier.

Sorry, am I being a bit thick?

[Freya'sMum]

Sharon,

No, not thick! Before I answer, let me check if there was any medical/health reason for you starting to wean dd at 4.5 months? If not, I don't see why you can't stop offering her solids altogether until she's 6 months and then start again from the beginning, especially if there doesn't appear to be any benefits for either of you!

The BLW approach sort of suggests that you can offer babies food at any age, even from birth, but they won't interact with it until they are developmentally ready to do so... so if you have a 'normal' healthy lo, there is no reason that you couldn't begin this process. If dd seems interested in food and you eating, why not stop the purees and instead sit her at the table with you each mealtime and offer her a steamed carrot stick (or similar) to play with? See what happens!

On the other 2 matters, I'm really very unqualified to comment on naps - my dd#2 is a dreadful day sleeper, only had 50 minutes today in total , so I'd post any concerns on the naps forum ! And her clinginess etc, well again I don't know... I guess it could be due to discomfort, or it might just be a developmental stage, perhaps check out the EASY forum, or the growth & development one for more advice?

As for the night waking, it won't be any comfort, but might reassure you... dd#2 still wakes at least once a night for a feed anywhere between 9pm and 2am and she's 11 months ! She wakes at other times too, but will be patted back to sleep if she's not hungry - if she is, she just yells till I feed her!

HTH some more?

Ax