Really at a loss with night wakings and #2 due in 4-5 weeks- help

[jmosery]

DH and i are really lost at what to do

our little one is 11 months 1 week

this is his schedule. he's been on it for about 4 weeks. He pretty much put himself on this schedule

5:30 wake up(he's been waking at this time since 4 months, we've tried everything, its just him)
6:30 breakfast
9:30 5 oz. bottle
10-12:30 nap
1:00 lunch
3:30 5 oz. bottle
6:00 dinner
6:45 5 oz.bottle
7:00 bedtime

he is usually out by 7:15 the latest

He is very happy, not cranky. we moved to 1 nap because he was always so cranky and fussy when he slept only 1-1.5 hours. then one day he took a long AM nap and was so happy. we;ve been on this schedule for about a month now

he goes down for naps and bedtime NO PROBLEMS. sometimes we have to shh/pat him for a minute or two but normally he goes right down. he doesn't wake during his naps either

our problem is that 3-4 times a week he'll wake in the middle of th enight. NEVER at the same time either. when he wakes, he is hysterical. we go in(only when he is absolutely crying, not fussing). he's either sitting or standing in his crib. he's been walking now for over a month

when we go in, we lay him down, ssh/pat for a minute and walk out. well thats it. whenever he wakes hysterical, we know we are in for a couple hours. usually 2-3 hours. if we go in and shh/pat and stay, he'll just stop crying and stare at us or the wall but will not fall asleep. if we attempt to leave, he gets hysterical. this just goes on and on

we can stand there over his crib, not even shh/pating him and he'll just stare but the minute we leave, he cries

we can go in and out like that forever.

sometimes he'll just cry himself to sleep. one time i took him out of the crib and he fell asleep in my arms(this was after 3 hours and we didn't know what else to do) but i don't like doing that.

we normally lay him down, as he sits or stands himself back up. put his blanket over him and shh/pat and walk out after a bit.

but like i said, this goes on for hours until unfortunatelly he cries himself to sleep

this does not happen every night. maybe every 2-3 nights but when it does, we don't know what to do. and like i said its never at the same time.

he's not hungry, or teething or poopy diaper. he has minor seperation anxiety with me but is fine being left with our nanny or DH.

DH has tried to go in(thinking once he sees me the SA kicks in) but its the same. he doesn't have SA with DH or nanny during the day. they can come and go frequently.

so we're not sure whats going on or what to do

I am due with baby #2 in 4-5 weeks(yes, a year apart) and i'm scared at how little sleep i really am going to get. i'll be home for 3 months with the new baby before returning to work. but we all know how little sleep we get with a newborn. i don't know what we're going to do battling this at the same time

anyone have any suggestions??

[Layla]

Hi there,

I think the NW are from him being overtired. If he is on 1 nap, he should really be taking that nap in the middle of the day. He has an extremely long stretch before bedtime (my 2yo will do that now but if she stays awake for 6.5hrs more than 2days in a row, she starts waking at night) and I would either put him back on 2naps or push that nap till at least 11am & do an earlier bedtime, so more like 6pm to be asleep by. That way he's getting 11.5hrs at night and 1.5hrs during the day (which is the av when they are on 1 nap). Try and stretch his nap until you have it closer to midday (add 10-15mins to his A time)

He shouldn't be awake for more than 5.5hrs (if he is on 1 nap)

I am due with baby #2 in 4-5 weeks(yes, a year apart) and i'm scared at how little sleep i really am going to get. i'll be home for 3 months with the new baby before returning to work. but we all know how little sleep we get with a newborn. i don't know what we're going to do battling this at the same time

WOW   Mine are 13.5 months apart & i was going through pretty much what you are at the moment. Isabella was also in the middle of the 2-1 transition and things were pretty hard. I would really try to get him back to 2 naps (like a short morning nap and longer pm nap). Did you try that at all?

Layla

[jmosery]

LAYLA- thanks, we did try that and it was terrible. we tried it for almost 3 months and all we had was a cranky kid. he never did well with short naps. he's been falling asleep by himself since he was 4 months but we always had short PM naps and long AM naps. Then people suggested that we switch the long nap to PM and short one to AM to try and get him to sleep later(as he's been waking at 5:30 since he was 4 months) so we tried it for a while and he never took to it. He was miserable

then at 10 months one day he stayed up and had one long nap. he's been such a happy child since(when he's awake) but now we have these random terrible nights

i'm going to try and put him down tonight at 5:30. maybe do bath at 5:30 so he's out by 6 at the latest. even a 5:15 bath

its hard to extend his A time when he's so tired

he's ALWAYS been a 10-10.5 hour night sleeper. always. our pedi said that most kids actually only sleep that long and we should be happy he's doing so and I am, but he's not even getting that when he has the night wakings.

last night, when i posted this, he went to bed at 7pm, woke at midnight and we were up till 4am when he just pretty much cried himself to sleep as I couldn't stand anymore(i'm having terrible back pain as she is sitting on my sciatica)

so I told my nanny that he is super tired and to have him sleep for 3-4 hours today but she said that she'll try but he NEVER does, maybe 2.5-3 at the most. we'll see

but if he sleeps from 9-12, he woke at 6(so slept from 4-6 and woke up happy to play)

so the plan today is for him to sleep from 9-12 and then bath at 5:15 or even 5

i'm just afraid i'll get a 3-4 am wake up tomorrow

i'll be home with him all day tomorrow, so hopefully i can get him to catch up on some sleep

but if he is up for 14 hours a day and sleeps 2.5 for his one nap, what do you suggest his A times should be

its hard to get them to only be up for 5-5.5 hours when they don't sleep the 11-12 hour nights. i know all kids don't

so I figure the 4.5-5 hour A time in the morning is nice but then yes, he gets a 6.5-7 hour A time later. which he does well with(no crankiness) but maybe i'll try putting him down a little earlier for next week and see if that helps. do bath at 6 and bedtime at 6:30 instead of 7-7:15

do you think that will help? that gives him a 6 our A time, 6.5 at most

again, its hard when he only sleeps the 10-10.5 hours at night

jaime

[Layla]

Jaime, I am so sorry things are tough & you being pregnant & having been there myself, I know how hard it is .

You're absolutely right in that he won't be easy to stretch until he has a better nights sleep. 10-10.5hrs is sometimes enough so he might just be one of those babies that do well on that amount of hours at night but for at least a couple of days I would do an earlier bedtime & see where that gets you. I would maybe try something like 6pm to start with and see if he sleeps in the morning till the same time or not & then we can go from there. In any case, his nap really needs to be pushed out more towards the late morning (early afternoon) because even 6hrs of A time is enough to cause OT. Him being awake from 12-4am (at night) is honestly an OT sign so if at all possible, do the early catnap and later pm nap rather than 3hrs of a nap (cause he might not sleep that long after all and then he's up again for a long time in the afternoon).

When did you do the naps (2 naps)? Maybe the timings of the naps needed a little adjustment. I am doing this now with my 1yo and she does seem cranky as well (not miserable though) but she sleeps well at night (touch wood) and thats more important to me than her being cranky after she's been woken up during the day, iykwim. Perhaps you could do a long morning nap & try for a catnap in the afternoon?

i'll be home with him all day tomorrow, so hopefully i can get him to catch up on some sleep

You know, I've always found it better to let mine sleep more at night than during the day. I believe night time sleep is more restoraive and beneficial to curing overtiredness but see how you go today & let me know.

Layla

[jmosery]

Thanks Layla

well yesterday went lke this:

he woke at 6am from the horrid of a night

slept from 9-12 and then he was out fot the night at 6:15

i did a bath at 5:30. he cried a bit because he was so overtired but was out pretty quickly

slept till exactly 5:30 this morning. that 5:30 wake up

i dont think we'll ever get away from that huh? LOL

so going to do the same schedule we normally do

5;30-10 awake
10-12 sleep or 12:30
12-6 and bedtime at 6

we'll see if he sleeps the 11 hours again

i think i'm going to do that for a week and see how it goes

if he could sleep from 6-5:30, then maybe we can push the whole day up a bit.

if not, then we'll have to work on pushing the nap up an hour. people have suggested maybe a cat nap at 10 and then sleep from 12-2 and bedtime at 7pm

so it would be

5:30-10 awake
10-10:30 sleep
10:30-12 awake
12-2 sleep
2-7 awake

what do you think

is this the way you would go?

[Layla]

IMHO, I would bring him back to 2 naps. The short morning nap and longer pm nap. I would start of with 45mins because I found with Isabella it turned to 30mins towards the end & I remember with Jasmine when I started cutting her morning nap to 30mins, she got overtired real quick. 45mins is still 1/2 cycle so its fairly restorative whereas 30mins is waking from deep sleep. So maybe try something like this:

5:30 - wake
9:30am - morning nap
10:15 - wake from nap
1:30 - afternoon nap
3pm - wake from nap
6:30-6:45 - bedtime

I still think 5hrs of A time before bedtime is too long. So I would try and have the 2nd nap closer to 1.30-2pm so that there is not such a big stretch before bedtime. Its funny cause I can push Jasmine up to 4hrs in the morning (on the days she wakes at 5:30, lol) and she is ok still with her morning & pm nap but if the stretch before bedtime is anything over 4hrs, we are doomed and we get the EW and possibly some NW.

He "should" be able to sleep in later once he has caught on sleep. I actually remember this fairly long thread about the EW's and it was b/n you and another member (Brooke, I think) and I just thought.... OMG, you have it tough. Now I know exactly how tough because I have battled the 5:30am wake up myself for over 6 weeks (b/n late March-May ish when the time changed & I did it the wrong way around... pushed bedtime and kept persisting rather than pushing her morning nap 1st & then the rest of the day with it).  Its more or less stabalised now although it does come up when we hit the OT state. What is it with 5:30am btw...

I think its great that he did 11hrs at night and with the earlier bedtime, at least he is sleeping more at the front end of the night. Try what you say you want to try for a week but if things are getting worse, or not any better, I would be more inclined to go back to 2 naps.

Let me know how it goes
 

[jmosery]

thanks

i appreciate the advice. will try that and let you know  how it goes

thanks

jaime

[jmosery]

wanted to give you ladies an update

Well, our weekend with sleep turned out GREAT actually

Friday night I put Mikey to sleep at 6pm because he was exhausted from some bad nights during the week. He slept till 5:30 straight through, YAY!!! so thats ELEVEN and HALF HOURS

then I wasn't sure what I was going to do with his schedule but we were out and he fell asleep from 9:30-10 so it was perfect. then I put him back down in his crib at 12 and he slept from 12:30-3:15. then he was up and went to bed at 7 and slept till 6

so ELEVEN HOURS!!

then yesterday again I put him down from 10-10:30 and then again at 12:30 but he only slept from 1-1:30 as we were at my inlaws and it wasn't his bed and I think with all the people he just didn't sleep

so I put him down for the night at 6 again since he didn't nap and he slept from 6-5:30

again ELEVEN and a HALF HOURS

so three nights in a row with 11 plus hours WOHOOOOOO

so I told my housekeeper to put him down from 9:30-10 and then for a long nap at 12 and let him sleep 2-3 hours and we'll see how tonight goes

I don't really "like" the schedule as its a pain to get much done or be out of the house since he does't nap long anywhere but if it gives us good nights, i'll take it.

[Layla]

I am so pleased the 2 naps have worked out . I wanted to say that you should be able to stretch him in the afternoon for 2.5hrs before putting him down for the 2nd nap. That way he might sleep in till 3 & you can push bedtime close to 6.30/7pm & hopefully he will sleep past 5.30am as well, lol.

I don't really "like" the schedule as its a pain to get much done or be out of the house since he does't nap long anywhere but if it gives us good nights, i'll take it.

Jaime, I know what you mean cause I have to do everything around Jasmine's naps as well but tbh, I would rather do that than be up with her for hours at night because she is so overtired. Its not too long before he is on 1 nap.

Layla