3mo old waking no matter what I do

[shanlbc]

Ms DS is 3mo 1 week and has only slept 5-6 hrs a handful of times.  Last night was very typical...big dream feed at 1030 but still woke up at 140am.  Put his paci back in and he slept until 245.  I gave him a small feed because previously, if I have given him a full feed in the middle of the night, he won't eat at all at 7am after waking.  He woke this morning at 550am.  I tried until 615 to get him back down, unsuccessfully.

Here is our routine (you could just about set your clock by him):

7am wake (most days)/feed    4oz (estimate--I will give him whatever he will take)
7-830 awake
830-10 sleep

10 Eat   5-6 oz
10-1130 Awake
1130-1 Sleep

1pm Eat   4-5 oz  he is gassy at this feed sometimes and has some trouble getting it down
1-230 Awake
230-4 Sleep   some variation here---this is sometimes a short nap, esp when he is at the babysitters...

4 Eat  4-5 oz  same as above with gas
4-530 awake
530-615 catnap
615 awake usually a walk in the stroller so he might doze off

7pm eat  5-6 oz
715 bath
745 bed

1030-1045 dream feed  varies--4-5 oz

230am wake for feed   I always try the paci first.  Sometimes it hold his off a half hour or an hour.

He weighs 13lbs 12 oz.  It doesn't sound like enough to eat to me but I can't get him to eat anymore no matter how hard I try.  I make all 6oz bottles in hopes that he will want more than he is taking.  I have not tried cluster feeding because he just won't eat when he is not hungry.  A couple of times a week he will wake for the dream feed before time (just a few minutes before).  He has refulx and takes Prevacid.  He has gotten very gassy the past 10 days or so...but he is already on Alimentum formula so we just give him drops when he has trouble.

His naps are good.  At least one each day goes an hour and a half w/o waking, the other two we do pu/pd to get through to an hr and a half.  I think the gas is waking him.  The babysitter (2 days per week) has been instructed how important it is for him to get a full 1.5hrs but she can't always get him back down like I can.  When he wakes up early from the 230 nap then he usually sleeps a little longer at the catnap.

I feel like he would sleep better if he would eat more during the day.  Do you thinkhe is ready for a 4hr EASY?  It will be hard to keep him up but I think he could do it...

Thanks for your support!

[Layla]

Hi there. There is only so much you can feed a 3mo. His stomach is still very small and you can't really force him to eat more during the day. I honestly don't think that he is ready for any more A time. You might be able to stretch his feed to 3.5hrs (and if you do, do it slowly) but I wouldn't push his A time any more. He's doing great with naps and he might get overtired. 4hr EASY is more for 4mo's and even then, some babies are not comfortably on a 4hr EASY until they are close to 9months.

230am wake for feed   I always try the paci first.  Sometimes it hold his off a half hour or an hour.

See if the paci only buys another 30mins-1hr then he's waking out of hunger.

Do you wake him for the DF or does he wake on his own?

Layla

[shanlbc]

Thanks for your reply.  It can go either way on the dream feed.  Last night he woke up on his own at 10pm (bottle at 7pm, bed at 745pm), the previous three or so nights he slept through and I or DH went in.  He always stays asleep when he hasn't beaten us to it.  I would say he wakes for the dream feed about twice a week on average.  Should I consider dropping the DF unless he wakes for it? 

He woke last night at 200am, only 4hrs after the dream feed.  I really don't mind him waking, I know he is hungry.  My pediatrician told me to try to delay the middle of the night feed.  I guess I am doing to much "comparing" to other babies that are sleeping all night.  I just want to make sure I am not doing anything that is making him wake...or that I could be doing something differently to help him sleep longer.

On A time...he woke up 30min early yesterday morning so I thought I would try a little experiment...I kept him up for 1hr 45min.  He was only a little fussy and still pretty easy to get down, no more than 5 min.  He actually slept well.  When he woke up at an hour and fifteen minutes, I rocked him for a few minutes and put him back down.  I had to go wake him up after an hour and 45min total sleep time.  He was in a great mood and not fiendishly hungry.  I did it with the next cycle too in order to get him back onto our regular times.  He handled it all very well. 

It was really just an experiment because I know it will take a lot of work to get him on a good 4hr EASY...he will be 4mo on July 7.  I am planning on starting the weekend of June 30 because I have several days off work to start the changes.   My understanding is that you should add 15min to the first A time/nap for three days, then the next A time/nap for three days, etc.  Then repeat the whole cycle to get to a 4hr routine.  So it should take 2 weeks or so..unless he has trouble adjusting, then you slow down.  Is that correct?

He has been eating better the past couple of days I think because we are splitting his Prevacid into half in the morning and half in evening.

He is such a good baby and happy 99% of the time...I am willing to wake during the night to keep him happy during the day.  I just want to make sure we are at least headed in the right direction for sleep through someday.

[Layla]

I have never woken for the DF. If they woke & it was close to 4-5hrs from the time they last ate, I would feed but otherwise I would wait until they naturally woke up out of hunger. Thats just me though.... but I am a bit funny about sleepy DF in that I wouldn't want to be woken up in the middle of the night to be fed if I wasn't ready (again this is just my way of thinking).

I guess I am doing to much "comparing" to other babies that are sleeping all night

I used to do this all the time (especially with #1). All babies do different things and he will definitely sleep through when he's ready to increase his intake. If he is only nibbling & using the bottle as a prop then he's not hungry but if he's taking the full feed, he needs to be fed.

Maybe you can start working towards 3.5hr EASY. Sounds like your eager to get onto 4hr but don't push him too much. Wait about a week to see if things are getting better but if you see his naps are decreasing or he's waking more often at night then he's probably getting overtired and I would take a step back. Yes, you would add 15mins to his A time (but the A time in the morning is generalyl less than other A time of the day).

Here's a link to sample EASY routines of lo's your age
https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=10384.0 - 0-3months
https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=10385.0 - 3-6months

Good luck & let me know how you get going
Layla

[shanlbc]

Thanks so much for your feedback.  I am only eager to get him on a 4 hr EASY if he is ready.  Like I said he is a really happy baby so I don't want to mess with that.  Even more than sleeping through the night, I have been worried that he is not getting enough to eat because there were a few days where he was only taking 24 or so oz--down from his usual 30-32 oz.  I was thinking he might eat more if he went longer between feeds.  I will try him out when he is closer to 4mos but will definitely not push him.

He has been so funny today...his feeds went like this:  4oz (middle of the night), 4oz, 4.5oz, 6oz, 3oz, 6.5oz.  He hasn't had the dream feed yet so I am sure he will eat at least 4oz.  So now I am happy that he is eating more.  I am not going to worry too much about the middle of the night feed.  I feel like I am doing everything else right so I know he will drop it when he doesn't need it anymore.  Thanks for your help.

[Layla]

Let me know how tonight goes & if he wakes for the DF

[shanlbc]

Hello!  He woke last night at 930pm, only 2.5hrs after his 7pm feed so we just gave him his paci back and he went right back to sleep.  DH and I really debated about whether or not to give him the DF...we went ahead and gave it to him at 10:45.  He woke up at 3:15 and took 5oz.  Then he woke at 6:15, DH reinserted paci, and we had to wake him up at 7:15am.  By the time we got downstairs, it was 7:30 but he still would only take 2.5 oz.  This is very common when he has a full bottle during the night.  He just won't eat much at 7am.  If I try to give him less in the middle of the night, he wakes at 530am.  I am really trying to "start as I mean to go on" and we really need a 7am wake up with our childcare situation...that's why we don't just get him up when he wakes the first time.

The whole day has been crazy...here is the last 24hrs:

DF 1045pm         3oz
330am                5oz
730am                2.5oz
930am                5.5oz  (woke early from nap demanding feed...not just fussing but all out crying)
12:45pm             6oz
4:00pm               3oz
6:00pm               3.5oz  demanded feed same as above
7:30pm               3oz/bed

He was short half a nap today from waking early but the other 2 naps were fine (plus catnap).

This is soooooo unusual for him.  He is usually like clockwork with his bottles.  It has only been in the past 10 or so days that he stopped taking a consistent amt at every feed.  After today I am thinking even more than before that he would do better on a 3.5 or 4 hr EASY.  My idea is to start this weekend but take 4 days with each transition so he will not be on the full 3.5 hr EASY for over a week and the 4hr EASY when he is past the 4mo mark.  He is 15 weeks on Wed.  If he can't handle the extended A times we will take it even slower...maybe even stay at 3.5 for another month or more.  What do you think?