Sigh... I guess I need to sleep train...

[KellyC]

Hi Lucy

I know you're thinking over-tiredness may be part of the problem but Callum's routine is fairly similar to Zander's and unless he's been really busy or at nursery the 1pm nap time isn't going down too well anymore.  A couple of times I've put him down at 1pm (because I'm ready for my nap   ) and he's taken an hour to fall asleep but if I put him down at 1.30pm it's more like 10 minutes. 

I've also started to give Zander a couple of board books to read to himself once we've left the room and he's far more interested in that than the long cuddles he used to want     At sleep time I tell him he's got to rest so we can have lots of fun in the afternoon/tomorrow then say 'do you want this book in your cot?' and he says yes and in he goes with his night-light on.  This evening he took yonks to go to sleep but we could hear him 'reading' and chattering to himself before he conked out which was cute. 

Michelle's suggestion of 'just going to get something' is interesting.  Is there a special toy you could 'forget' to bring to bed and just go to fetch and maybe go right back with it initially but gradually start to take longer to get it if you can hear he's happy in there on his own?

Just trying to think of the things which might be less work for you!!

Kelly x

[Mom2katiebug]

Lucy - Big hugs to you sweetie!  You know I have no idea what you should do cuz the Bug is an awful sleeper no matter what we've tried.  But I couldn't read and not send you some hugs!

[Mia & Scarlett's Mummy]

Hi Lucy

Just to let you know your routine is very similar to mine with Mia (who's 22 months) - and she is NOT overtired.  In fact we've had to extend her awake time and reduce her nap to 1 hour max to ensure a good nights sleep.  So although some mom's swear by X amount of awake and sleep time I think it just goes to show there is no magic number - it's your baby that counts.

FWIW here's Mia's routine which is perfect - for us at the moment

7./7.30 wake and breakfast
9.00 snack
11.45 lunch
12.30/12.45 nap for one hour max
2.00 snack
4.30 teatime
6.00 bath and milk
7.00 toast or crumpets
7.45 settle to bed

Mia also has her 2 year molars coming through at the mo which is a sleep buster if ever I knew one!

[LucyA]

Tried to post yesterday, but the site kept crashing when I tried.  Here’s what I wrote then:

Wow, thanks for all the hugs and suggestions!

So yesterday Callum wouldn't nap in the cot, but eventually napped on the couch while watching tv, an hour later than usual.

One of the problems has been that he doesn't seem to want to sit with me for stories any more. But last night I captured his interest by making up stories about a plane and a helicopter! So he sat with me for his stories, then into the cot and fell asleep reasonably quickly! We did the same for nap today, and he's asleep in his cot at his usual time!

Kelly, I think you might be onto something, I think by bedtime there's an overtiredness issue, because he often has very short naps (under an hour), and the last few days have been particularly bad. But at naptime I get the feeling he's not tired (today being an exception because the last few days have caught up with him I guess). The trouble with a later nap is that it pushes bedtime back - I can't really shorten a nap that is often already less than an hour! Hmmm... Maybe I'll just log his sleep for a few days and see what happens. I think I also need to start working on some GW - when baby's here at the least I'd like to not have him needing to hold my hand, even if I do still need to be in the room with him.

******

And an update from today!!
So I decided while I was putting C down for his nap today that it was a good time to start GW, so no hand holding! he protested a bit, cried a bit, but all in all it wasn't too bad, and it didn't really take any longer than usual for him to go to sleep. I persevered tonight, having explained several times through the afternoon what would happen, and he was fine. He fell asleep quicker than usual, no tears, no hand holding! It still took a while for him to fall asleep, but it's a big improvement!

[15milner]

Sounding hopeful Lucy... way to go Callum for not holding mummy's hand.

A thought - if Callum protests at not holding hands - could you perhaps orchestrate a toy being sent in the post / given / found etc and it's lonely / doesn't have any friends... please can you hold the toy's hand to help him get to sleep - transfer the hand holding to a toy?

Alex

[Messa]

Yay Lucy!!!! It sounds as if you are making great strides.  Keep up the good work.  I think it is a great idea to chart his sleep, at this age I think they need around 13 hrs of sleep, maybe that will give you a clear picture of what he is getting.  How are the NW?

[LucyA]

So our saga continues...
Yesterday Callum seemed pretty hyperactive at naptime, but I attempted it anyway. After an hour of going in and out, with him playing some of the time, then getting upset, I gave up, so he had no nap yesterday.
Last night he went to sleep without the hand after around 20 minutes, so that was pretty good. But he woke up at 2 am and got quite hysterical, wanting to sit on my lap. Eventually I got him to sleep in our bed - which we're quite happy to have happen every night if necessary. But I think that was largely due to overtiredness. The last few weeks when he's woken at night he's refused to come into our bed, insists on staying in the cot!

He's just gone down for his nap today without the hand in around 20 minutes! I guess we're getting somewhere, slowly but surely!

Please keep on my back to follow this through this time!!!

[Sylvia.]

oh lucy a well earned break, stick with it, it will pay off in the end, i hope

congratulations on the no hand, tiny steps, right

sylvia xoxo

[kirsty_167]

HI
 
My son is coming up 23 months and we have had endless sleep issues...as in 23 months worth

Two things:

Hi Lucy

Just to let you know your routine is very similar to mine with Mia (who's 22 months) - and she is NOT overtired.  In fact we've had to extend her awake time and reduce her nap to 1 hour max to ensure a good nights sleep.  So although some mom's swear by X amount of awake and sleep time I think it just goes to show there is no magic number - it's your baby that counts.

i tend to agree here. After 22 months of strict BW routines which worked for him and he so needed, they suddenly seemed to not fit his needs any longer....as in the hours of awake time before sleep. JAkob always had naps at 12pm and bed at 6.30/7pm. In the last month he has pretty much moved to 1pm naps and 7.30 bedtime........and the NWs and early mornings have GONE!

So each baby is different and as they get older the routines nee d tweaking more in a way that suits them best. It was trial and error for us but i was tired of battling naptimes. Id pt him down at 12 and he would be hysterical  and then take ages to fall asleep,then wake grumpy.One day we went out and didnt get back til after 12.30 (which I never did in the whole of his 22 months ) Anyhow.....he went to bed at 1pm and it was the best nap and nighttime sleep he had had for so long!!! Hence the 12pm nap was OUT and the 1pm nap was so IN!!!!

The second thing was that we gave Jakob a nightlight. I know your questions werent about bad nightwakings as such but i just thought id share the other thing we introduced which has greatly helped Jakob sleep better. He goes down happily and loves his "choo Choo"...its his nightlight which is a train!  The night we gave that to him was the last time he had NW's!! Now after stories at bedtime we say "do you want to see CHoo CHoo?" he says "yes" and we go in and do our ritual of saying goodnight to the animals (pics on his wall) and now we say nite to Choo Choo too!!

Anyway hope i havent babbled tooo much 


Kirsty

[LucyA]

Well two more sleeps without hand holding, but I don't feel like I'm actually making much progress. But we've been battling overtiredness/overstimulation, with visitors, missed naps, late bedtime etc, so that's probably why. I have a nice quiet, regular week ahead, so hopefully we'll move forward from here!

Kirsty, I had thought about a nice 'friendly' nightlight recently. I might have to have a look around for one.

The naps are just such a struggle, and I feel like it's partly because he's not tired, but if he goes down any later bedtime gets pushed later, and it's late enough as it is... I'll keep working on the handholding prop for a few more days and see where that gets me!

On a positive note, nightwakings are down, from every 2 hours the night before I started (there's motivation for you!!) to about 2 a night, despite the overtiredness we keep getting stuck with!

[mari]

It seems like you are not making progress but the little progress that you are making will be a great help when you get his routine back on track.  I bet that after this quiet week he will more settled and you will really see what a difference ou have made.

[Messa]

Lucy - You are doing great!  Whats the saying "a little bit goes a long way", and its true, look at the NW that is huge, and really will help with the overtiredness.  And as Mari said the quiet week should do wonders and once you have a consistant routine etc it will be so much easier once the new baby is here.  Great job with the GW of the hands you are making bigger steps then you think.  Keep up the great work!!

[LucyA]

Aaarghh, these naps are driving me crazy!!!!!!
He's in his cot, alternately talking to himself/his animals and calling out for me, but not really upset. he does this every day, it takes him a good half hour to get ready to sleep once I get him into the cot. Plus today I've had to change his nappy twice while trying to read stories before nap. By the time he falls asleep it will be time to wake him up...

ETA: 2.10pm and he's just gone to sleep...

[Sylvia.]

hugs lucy

this is what charley was doing, i've had success just recently with naps, i put her down earlier, i play music, i sit on the end of her bed and sing to her, if she is not asleep in minutes i tell her i have to change lucy's nappy and i will be back when i am finished, she is always asleep, i realise callum is younger

[Messa]

<<<HUGS>>> Lucy it will get better.  Thaleia went through a stage where she would chat to herself and play before sleeping and it drove me bonkers.  I just adjusted her schedule a little and all is well.  Just keep trying to find that "magic" schedule for him (but don't make huge changes)  As I stated before our "magic" is 5 hrs awake time...hope you find what works for you.  One step at a time, the GW of the hands is doing great give yourself a break!  Your next battle is to find your shedule and to get rid of NW.  I think you are doing a great job, don't get discouraged!!