Think we're heading towards 2-1 switch

[Mum2Connor]

DS' naps are changing, he was routinely doing 2x 1.5hr naps per day and waking at 7am, bedtime 7pm with little NWs.  We were starting to get back on track after some sickness (so some NWs then) and then last Friday things changed.

Sorry this is long, this is how it's been:

Fri woke 6am; down nap 1 @ 9.15-11.30am (I woke him @ 11.30; let him sleep this long as recovering from sickness but was definitely on the mend); down for nap 2 @ 2.30pm fussed till 3pm slept till 4pm; bedtime 7pm, fussed till 8pm and no NW.

Sat woke 7am; nap 1 @ 9.50-11am; fussed again for nap 2 @ 2.15pm fussed till 3pm slept till 4pm; bedtime 7pm, fussed till 7.45pm and no NW (we stayed overnight at friends so I was please he slept thro in strange surroundings ).

Sun woke 7am; flat out refused nap 1 @ 9.50am, by 10.50am  we got in car to drive home and he slept 11-11.40am in car; went to a 2-yr-old birthday and he was happy and distracted, tried for nap 2 @ 2.15pm which he refused; bedtime 6.10pm no fussing straight to sleep and no NW

Mon woke 6.15am went back to sleep & up 6.50am and in daycare from 8.30am, slept 9.30-11am (great as never does 1.5hr there), refused nap 2 until 3.10pm slept till 3.50pm; bedtime 7.10pm asleep 7.30pm and no NW.

Tue (today) woke 6.50am and in daycare from 8.30am, slept 10.35-11.15am, refused nap 2 completely but had quiet time in cot @ 4pm then slept 5.20-5.30pm had to wake him when I arrived to collect him  ; bedtime 7pm asleep 7.30pm and so far no NW (it's 10.45pm)

His normal am nap before all this started was @ 9.45/50am and pm nap @2.15pm both 1.5hrs.  So I'm wondering should I start extending the am nap gradually past 10am and shorten it, but to what?  When he dropped the catnap at 8mths (yes he as a bit late with that) we extended A time successfully in am by walking ... we could try that again?  And then when do we try the 2nd nap.  Daycare suggested extending A time in am and working towards 11.45am one nap.

Sonja

[debo620]

there is two schools of thought:
1. push the am nap until it is later and later, I wouldn't go much past 11am to start and hopefully he will sleep 2hrs, you can then try for a very short catnap at say 4-5pm, the difficulty with this is that quite often they won't take the catnap and are OT by bedtime, eventually the one nap would be occuring closer to 12/12:30

2.limit the am nap, starting at 1hr,
so say nap 10-11:
nap 2-3:30
if he is refusing the nap at 2pm,
then I would cut the am nap further, 45min and then 30min....etc until it is gone, when you cut the am nap down to 30-40, the A time afterwards is usually shorter, so maybe he would then nap 1-3pm for example.

[Mum2Connor]

Thanks Deborah

So far our day has gone like this:

6.30am wake but was happy till 7am & up then.
extended A with running errand at shopping centre (ate biscuit snack in stroller), down happily at 10.30am, asleep quickly.  I woke him at 11.25am (this was before your post so wasn't sure this right) was a bit grumpy but came around 
2.10pm (after reading your post) down for nap 2, fussed a bit asleep by 2.40pm. I'll let him sleep no longer than 1.5hr and up no later than 4pm.  He has woken before at 4pm and still slept thro with no NW.

So given nap 1 was 10.30am should I try to extend slowly till 11am?  And while doing this should I let him sleep for as long as he can without me waking given you say aim towards 11am in suggestion no. 1.

What are your thoughts?

Sonja

[debo620]

Hi Sonja,
I think that you should keep the short am/long pm nap scenario as long as possible, since you are not having night waings or early wakings from it.
I personally would think you would want to have the pm nap starting and ending earlier.
I would suggest you cut the am nap to 30min, maybe 10:15-10:45, so method 2
then your pm nap could be at 1pm-3 or there abouts.

he will need to sort of get used to the longer awake time before bed before you can handle the 1 long nap.

the problwm with the first option, is that you could put him down 11am and he may oy may not sleep until 1pm, and the you have a very long stretch til bedtime, unless you can get a catnap in which most would refuse after a 2hr nap.

there is also a 2-1nap switch chat thread stickied under the nap board that you can check out

[Mum2Connor]

Hi Deb

Had 1 NW at 3am but didn't need to go in as back to sleep in 2-3mins, awoke 6.20am, talking till 7am.

I've put Connor down at 10.15am just now (asleep 10.30am) and will wake him after 30mins and will try nap 2 for 1-3pm. 

My only concern is that he is in day care 2 days a week and their general routine is: bubs on 2 naps down 10am & 2pm, bubs who've mastered 1 nap down at 11.45am - they do watch for tired signs though and put them down when needed.  I can ask them to do what we're trying to do with Connor but in practice could be a different story only b/c they tell me when they put him down he is often more interested in standing/sitting and watching the other bubs/toddlers playing  , they continue to lay him down and eventually he will drift off, unless he refuses completely.

I had read the sticky 2-1 switch before posting and could see that this could be trial and error period of time.

I'll post again later .... thanks

Sonja

[Mum2Connor]

A quick update: I woke him after 30mins this morning (never done this) and he was NOT happy . I felt so mean doing it , he wanted to go back to sleep so badly and it took almost 30 mins till he was himself again.

I put him down for nap 2 at 1.15pm with some fussing but asleep by 1.30pm and slept for 2 hrs! So I'm hoping we're on the right track.

Bedtime was 7pm. DH put him to bed as I had an appointment, asleep by 7.30pm.

As mentioned above my only concern is day care not following the routine, I just can't imagine they will actually wake him after 30 mins, although he often won't do more that 40 mins there in any case.

Sonja

[debo620]

thats great Sonja,
I think I would try this routine out for at least a week and see how he does in tems of night sleep etc.
the grumpiness after waking after 30min will subside,
the other option is to try and get him to take the 30min just slighty earlier, maybe 10am? so that he is not as tired for it and not quite as grumpy when you wake him. actually I think that 10am is better, as it may move the 2 hr pm nap just slightly earlier....maybe 1pm.
eventually you would want that 2-2.5hr nap to occur midday, so 5-5.5hrs after wake. (right around 12pm)

hopeully daycare will be able to follow through, there is a huge difference btwn a 30min and a 40min am nap, and hopefully this will encourage them.
if you find that he is taking longer to fall asleep at night after a 3:30pm wake---then you could cut the the am nap to 20min, which would maybe move the 2hr nap earlier to 12:30 or so. so you are essentially working at cutting the am nap completely and getting the 2hr -2.5hr nap midday.

HTH

[Mum2Connor]

unfortunately had NWs at 12-1am (seemed to want me maybe as I didn't put him to bed due to an appointment   & had to go in for a few mins) & again at 3-3.10am but didn't go in as wasn't upset. Awoke 7.10am

Will put him down early for am nap as suggested.  Could the NW be from am nap?  I'm sorry I don't understand how they are related?

Also is the idea that gradually we're cutting the am nap shorter till it doesn't exist  I'm probably just not getting the connection. 

Sonja

[debo620]

too bad about the NW, I think just persist with the 30min am and 2hr pm nap for at least 1 week.

yes the idea with this method is to slowly eliminate the morning nap which will bring the pm nap earlier

[Mum2Connor]

thanks Deborah ... hope there's no NW tonight

Sonja A

[¤ Efka ¤]

Just sending you some hugs, these LOs could give you a headache for sure

[Mum2Connor]

thanks Efka 

[Mum2Connor]

We've managed to get into a new routine:
down for nap 1 10am but fights with me when putting him down but then asleep by 10.20am and I wake him at 30min
down for nap 2 1pm but fights with me again, but then asleep by 1.20pm and sleeps 2 hours (except at Daycare 1 hr)
bedtime generally 7pm or earlier if woken early that morning.; naps also occur a bit early if early waking.

We are having some NWs though  and early wakings , is this normal and part of the transition?  Or do I need to do some tweaking somewhere?

Also as we're only in wk 2 of this routine at what point do you start shortening nap 1 to 20 min and then does it get shorten again and by how much?   

Thanks
Sonja

[¤ Efka ¤]

Just my thought, as he is really fighting you on the naps, maybe then you can push the am later? and make bedtime little earlier?
Or you think it would be really nono for him?

[Mum2Connor]

Hi ya Efka, yep fights me everytime, even bedtime.  What I mean is, our routine is to walk slowly to his room and soon as we're through the door he starts arching and wanting down.  I stay calm and continue to do our routine, put on whitenoise CD, close blind 3/4 down, sit in chair and put sleeping bag on, give him his lovies, sing bedtime song and down in cot ... all the way he is fussing.  He does calm when in his cot and tries to test me a bit too, but I just continue the routine say sleep time phrases etc. and walk out.  He calms when I leave, but takes 20 mins everytime to go to sleep (including bedtime).  Sorry for the long explanation

Today I put him down at 1.30pm as we we're late back from visiting friends and he still fussed but was asleep faster.  I do think I can push him a bit given he's fussing and taking 20 mins to sleep anyway.

What do you think?  I'm happy to try it,just wonder how our routine would look if he goes down later, particularly the afternoon and getting enough A time before bed?  Any suggestions?

Sonja