Why still waking?

[tiredmamma]

Hi ladies.  I started PU/PD 3 weeks ago and we have seen some improvement.  My DD used to really battle bedtime and wake many times/night.  My DH also took over bedtime and a nightwaking or 2 and she doesn’t scream when she sees him!   

Anyway, he puts her in her crib at night and she lays down and goes to sleep nicely.  That’s around 7:30/8pm.  She has been waking at 10:30ish, 12:30ish, 2:30ish and then 6:30 for the day.  DH takes care of bedtime and the first 2 wakings.  I take the 2nd and nurse her because she is still small and I am paranoid.  ANYWAY – I used to do all nightwakings and nurse but since DH took over I thought she would start dropping those wakings?!  He’s been doing it for almost 1 week.  I feel like we are doing a lot of what the books say is good – she falls asleep in her crib without intervention, when she wakes at night and my DH goes in he lays her down in her crib with the paci – doesn’t usually pick her up, she never falls asleep at the breast (except sometimes for that ONE feeding).

I’m just confused because I have heard that if you want to drop feedings, have DH take over and she will drop them because she knows she isn’t getting mamma/boob.  Could that ONE that I do be ruining it?  Or am I just being impatient and it will take a while?  I am sure she is in some teething pain as she is almost 11 months and has NO teeth.  So as far as I am concerned she is ALWAYS teething.  On most days she takes 2 nice 1.5 hour naps (but those are a HUGE battle to put her down for... )

Any tips or reassurance would be appreciated.

Thanks!

[momofclaire]

Hi!
Can you post her current routine for me?  Have you been told by a doctor that she does need a night feed? Does she eat eagerly?  What type of solid food, if any, does she eat?

PU/PD takes a ton of patiences and 100% consistancy.  It isn't easy.  Post back and I will try to help you figure out what we can do to help.

[Terike]

Hi!
I am about to start pu/pd with my son and I have to tell you that your problem seems not very comforting to me. And my DH doesn't even want to help me at night.
We have almost the same scheme of wakings and I plan to drop all bottles at night, but that would probably mean I'll be awake the whole night?!
So, I hope you'll get some tips from experienced mums!
Good luck!

Terike

[momofclaire]

Terike- Have you looked at all the other possible problems.  Sometimes pu/pd isn't needed. 
Can you post your routine and some background info? Maybe we will be able to help.
Myia

Welcome to the boards by the way.
 

[tiredmamma]

Thanks!  Here is our routine:

Wake up for day (between 6:30-7:30)
Change & nurse
Play in playpen & watch Sesame Street
Breakfast at 8ish (assume she woke up at 7am this day)
Play on floor
Start nap routine (2-2.5 hours after waking) 9am
Nap is usually 1.5 hours (up at 11:15ish)
When she gets up I used to nurse her but now I give her solids first.
around 11:30am/12 lunch
We go out or play
Since I changed the nursing around I try to nurse her at 2:30 in preparation for PM nap in the hopes it will relax her.
2:30/3 PM nap
Up around 3:30/4.
snack
Play, crawl, etc.
Dinner 6ish
Nurse 7pm
DH does bedtime routine bath, lotion, book, etc. puts her in crib around 7:30ish and she puts herself to sleep (‘usually’ – of course tonight wasn’t one of the better nights)   

The pedi said she doesn’t need to nurse at night.  She’s small (16lbs) but not expected to be all that big since DH and I are small.  She was giving me a hard time eating (solids) but the past 2 days have been better.  She has a pancake for breakfast, today’s lunch was 2oz of chopped apple, 2oz cubed sweet potatoes, some pasta, and 2 green beans + some cheese, & dinner is 2oz chopped mango, 1oz chopped peach, 2oz banana, ¼ cup oatmeal and some yogurt (I know – odd, but she LOVES it).  She usually has some snack in the afternoon too.  I forgot what she had today.

Terike – it’s NOT easy or quick.  Well, maybe for some it is.  You may be pleasantly surprised.  My story sounds bad but it’s SOOOO much better than it used to be!     Which is sad.  I am lucky DH helps though because I pretty much lost it last week.

Thanks!

[momofclaire]

Could she be overtired?  She should be getting 3 hours of daytime sleep at her age.  Have you tried putting her to bed a touch earlier? 
What is she like when she wakes?  Really hungry? Crying?
Can you explain how you have been dealing with the wakes and doing pu/pd?

[Layla]

how old is she (sorry I might be a bit slow today but didn't see her age in the post)

[momofclaire]

Layla, she is 11 months. 

Thoughts?

[Layla]

I’m just confused because I have heard that if you want to drop feedings, have DH take over and she will drop them because she knows she isn’t getting mamma/boob.  Could that ONE that I do be ruining it?  Or am I just being impatient and it will take a while?  I am sure she is in some teething pain as she is almost 11 months and has NO teeth.  So as far as I am concerned she is ALWAYS teething.  On most days she takes 2 nice 1.5 hour naps (but those are a HUGE battle to put her down for... )

You know its not uncommon for BF babies to still need 1 night feed but I would probably start thinking about weaning that one because ideally at 12months (onwards) it can be a habit. The dh thing is true to an extent because they KNOW they can't get milk out of daddy so they probably do settle easier for them but still, she does need to know that no matter who she is waking for, she won't be getting fed automatically.

When you say its a HUGE battle to get her down for naps... what do you mean? Is she fighting the pm nap or is she taking longer to go down for the morning nap? At 11months she could also be makign a transition to 1 nap... if he pm nap is too late & it pushes bedtime to a later hour, it could cause overtiredness & night wakings as well

[tiredmamma]

Hi!  Thanks so much for your replies.  She will be 11 months on July 2nd.

Her daytime sleep is usually 2.5-3 hours (thank goodness).  My schedule above was probably confusing but she takes 2 nice ~1.5 hour naps/day.  She wakes fine and plays in her crib for about a half hour before I even go in!  They are a battle because she takes a LONG time to settle but things have been improving a bit.

For naps I now have a little rule because I was all over the place.  I rock & wind down (sometimes nurse) and then put her in the crib awake.  She usually starts to wander around.  I sit in the rocking chair across from the crib and close my eyes (so I can not engage her).  I give her 20 minutes to settle and then I will start laying her down because she will play for HOURS like this and I needed a limit.  Much to my surprise she has been settling herself and putting herself to sleep within about 20-25 minutes.  I sit in the chair and do not interact at all.  At bedtime DH does the same.  He has the same 20 minute rule but has only needed to use it 2 out of the past 6 times.   

DH does PD for NWings but I nurse her for the 1 that I do.  Ironically last night she slept until 4:30am!  So DH did that and she did not get nursed until she woke up at 7:30am.  I really just need to cut out the nursing.  I’m just such a whimp and I get tired and want to go back to sleep.  But DH is on vacation for 2 weeks now so either he will do all wakings or I will not nurse her on the ones that I do.

I have been dealing with this for over a month and tried the 1 nap but it does NOT work.  That is what is so frustrating – she NEEDS the 2nd nap but refuses to take it without a fight.   

I probably do need to be a bit more patient.  We are a lot better off than we were.  She only nurses that 1 time overnight which is great, DH can settle her, she is putting herself to sleep on SOME naps and usually at bedtime.  It’s HUGE progress.  I was most concerned about the NW and having to cut out 1 feeding at a time.  But now it’s really only the 1 to cut out.  And it’s finally time.  I think I have been reluctant for more reasons than being paranoid she is small.  I have also been nursing her for the PM nap because I will do anything I can to get her to sleep without a fight.  She doesn’t fall asleep at the breast though – she either switches to the paci and I rock her or I put her in the crib.  But the nursing has helped with her relaxing.  That is, until I drop that feeding!  Aye.

Thanks for your help so far.

[momofclaire]

It sounds like you are doing great.  It does take patience.  It is almost as if you are doing gradual withdraw.  What would happen if you moved closer to the door and then sat in the chair for less and less time?
I think if you develope a plan and stick to it for two weeks, with the help of DH, you will see HUGE improvment.

[Terike]

Hi Myia!
Our day schedule goes like this:
6.00- 6.30 wake up, a bottle of milk (stopped bf 3 weeks ago)
7.00-7.30 breakfast
A time
9.30- 10.30 sleep (this might vary, sometimes he wakes up after 30 min)
A time
11.00 – snack (fruit)
13.30- 14.00 – lunch
14.30 – 16.00 – sleep
16.30 – snack
A time
19.30 – dinner
20.00 – bath
20.30 – sleep (I know this seems late to you , but he needs at least 4 hours, sometimes more A time before he gets tired. We tried putting him to sleep earlier, but he would be awake until at least 20.30 and he usually got very annoyed)

This is what I did the last three nights – I thought I would go gradually about cutting bottles, so on the first night I did pu/pd when he first woke up at around 12.00. It took an hour for him to get back to sleep. The next night, he just stirred, tossed and turned around midnight and woke up at 2.30, so I did pu/pd then and it took him 45 mins to go back to sleep. On the third night – imagine this! – he slept right through eight and a half hours without waking once! And then he woke up at five, I did pu/pd and he slept until 6.30. Now, I’m wondering what’ll happen tonight…I just hope, he sleeps through the night and I hope it stays like that! Anyway, after how many slept-through nights can you say they’ve got rid of the bad habit of NW?
If you need more info, ask please!
Terike

[momofclaire]

Terike
Can you tell me how old your little boy is?  From what I see, I think he is probably overtired, but it will depend on his age.
I am also thinking about spliting your post.  Is that ok with you?

[Terike]

Hi Myia!
You don't need to split the post, look at "10 1/2 month waking 5times a night" - Layla's been helping me, but I'd apperciate other opinions as well!