5 and 3/4 month old starting to wake at night

[sharig]

Hi I've been enjoying the site as an observer and now have a question myself.
My LO has been sleeping 10 plus hours at night with no feeds since he was 10 weeks old (he woke 3 nights for a feeding at 13 weeks which I think was a growth spurt).  Now the last 2 weeks he has woken up 10 out of 14 nights (one per night), quite hunger and will have a full feed.  The times of wake up are different every night, but have been as early as 12:30 and as late a 4:30- 5:00. He does not take a dream feed as when I attempted to introduce it at 4 months to get him to sleep longer (usually awake at 6) it just caused him to wake up more. Instead I cluster feed. I haven't been too concerned about the one time waking because he's now been sleeping to 7/ 7:30 in the morning, but last night he woke to feed during the night and then woke for the day at 5:45.
Do you think that this is a growth spurt? I started one solid feed at 5 1/2 months in the morning but it hasn't changed anything.  I can live with one wake up a night but I"m just wondering what people might think is happening and if this is an indication to start more solids as he is almost 6 months.  Any insight would be helpful.
Our usual schedule prior to the wakings was
6:30 breastfeed
8:30 nap  (any where from 1 to 2 1/2 hours)
11:00 breastfeed
between 12:00 and 1:00 nap (depending on length of 1st nap)
3:00/ 3:30 breastfeed
5:00 nap 45 minutes
6:00 breastfeed
7:15 bed time routine and breastfeed
Always asleep by 8:00

Since wakings
7:30 breasfeed
8:15 1TBSP oatmeal
9:00/ 9:30 nap
11:00 breastfeed
1:00 nap
3:15 breastfeed
5:00 nap 45 minutes
6:00 breasfeed
7:15 bed time routine and breastfeed

My LO is a real sleeper and if he makes it past the one hour mark for naps I often need to wake him as I don't let him sleep longer then 2 1/2 hours.
He is a great baby and I know I have it great, but I'm just concerned that I'm starting something bad by feeding him at night. Any advice.

[momofclaire]

In general, how long are his naps?  The first appears to be 1.5-2 hours and the second 2 hours and 15 min and then the cat nap.  Is this correct?
What time is he in bed asleep for the night? 

Do you think the solids are complicating the problem?  It seems like you started solids around the same time this started happening. Some babies have trouble with oatmeal but do better with rice or barley.  Other babies have a hard time with solids in the beginning no matter what they are. 
A growth spurt generally doesn't last longer than a week.  This could have started as a growth spurt though. 
I also think your sch may need a bit of a tweak but post back with your thoughts first.
Myia

[sharig]

Hi, I've posted on the night waking site too, but have a specific question regarding breastfeeding.
My LO has been waking 10 out of the past 14 night after not waking since he was 10 weeks old. I have been exclusively breastfeeding, with him getting a bottle of pumped milk 1 or 2 times per week to keep him comfortable with it. Two nights ago when I was out, my husband bottle feed him at bedtime and he made it though the night, last night out of curiosity I tried a bottle with some pumped milk, after the bedtime breast feed (which he kept bobing on and off for) and he downed the 3 ounzes in no time (I didn't try any more then that).  I'm just wondering if something could be happening to my milk supply which has always been good.  I'm also wondering if this is a sign to start more solids ( I have been giving 1 TBSP of oatmeal in the morning since the night wakings began). Any thoughts?

[sharig]

His naps range from 1 to 2 and 1/2 hours, and we just adapt the day accordingly. Usually if the moring naps is only 1 hour the 2nd nap will be longer, etc.  I try not to let hime get more then 4 and 3/4 hours of day time sleep even with the early morning wake up. Bedtime is between 7:15 to 7:45.  I did start with rice cereal the first week on solids and it was the some thing. I've worried about the solid introduction causing this but I started them in the first place because he woke and I felt he was needing a little something more.  I've introduced them only in the morning so that it would hopefully not effect night time sleep. Would I want to stop solids now that he is one week from 6 months?

[momofclaire]

I would try to get his naps to be a bit more consistant in length.  I would aim for 2 hours in the morning and 2 in the afternoon plus his cat nap. 

Solids can be tricky.  Even a 6 month old baby can have a tough time with them.  Is he still only getting 1 tbsp of solids in the early part of the day? 

[RachelC]

Hi and welcome to the boards!

Can you post his daily routine?

The fact that he downed 3 oz in no time is not surprising as babies will take milk from a bottle because they don't have to work at it.  Be sure to use the slowest flow nipple possible when you offer the bottle so he does still need to work to get the milk.

Solids, at this age, will not help with night wakings, they are for experimentation only.



What do you do when he wakes?  Is it hunger?  This could be a growth spurt.  Did he sleep better last night after the pumped milk?

Sorry for so many questions.

[sharig]

Thanks for the reply
His routine prior to the night wakings was
5:30/ 6:00 wake, but won't get him up until 6:00
6:15 breastfeed
8:30 nap
11:00 breastfeed
between 12:00 and 1:00 nap depending on length to previous nap
3:15 breastfeed
cat nap for 45 minutes 5:00
6:00 breastfeed
7:15 bedtime routine including breastfeed

Since night wakings he has been sleeping until 7/ 7:30 (which I love) except last night when he woke for the day at 5:45. When we wakes at  7:00 the first nap is at 9:30 but the rest of the schedule is similar.

His wakings have been at completely random times, varying from 12;30 to 4:30.  He is hungry and takes a very good full feed. Thankfully he falls back to sleep again without any difficulty. I initially thought it was a growth spurt, but it's lasted so long.
He didn't sleep any better last night after the pumped milk, he woke at 1:30 and then was up for the day at 5:45.
I don't mind the questions at all, it gets me thinking about things I may not have myself. 

[sharig]

Thanks for the quick replies
Yes he is still only getting 1TBSP in the morning, but I'm getting pressure from my Mom to start giving him more solids as she thinks this will fix the problem.
As for the naps, I hate having to wake him from naps and I hate having to try to prolong naps that are only a hour.  I used to feel my day was a dissaster if he woke after 1 hour, but I've told myself that this is a routine and not a schedule and I have to go with the flow a bit to. 
So, I'm not sure I'm going to start playing with the naps.

[RachelC]

I would keep your feeds at a maximum of 4 hours apart during the day.  I am wondering if he is not taking enough during the day and now waking at night.

I would aim for feeds at
6:15
10:15
2:15
5:15, bedtime routine (w/ another feed?) and in bed by 6:30 (at this age you want to aim for a 12 hour day/night). 

Milk is far more calorific than any solids, so upping his milk intake during the day will help more than more solids.

Solids can also be tough on little bellies, maybe cut out the oatmeal all together... and/or start with something like banana, avocado or sweet potatoes, again, not to help with the nightwakings.

You can also try reducing the time on the breast over night and wean that feed.

Growth spurts *can* last 2 weeks...

[Ennypen]

Just to add that on request of the mods I have merged your two posts from Night Wakings and Breast Feeding so all of the info you are getting can be in one place and consistent.

Helen  xxx

[momofclaire]

I think trying to get the feeds at times like what Rachel suggested would help.  How did last night go?

[sharig]

Thanks again for the replies and for putting the information together in one spot.
Last night he woke up at 2 but I don't get him up and he fell asleep quite quickly again.  Then he woke at 4:20 and I feed him.  He then slept until 7:50 (it's my birthday and I thought I'd enjoy the sleep in but I know I should have woken him at 7:00).  He had a very big feed at 4:20 and was very hungry.  I agree that I think he's not taking enough during the day and making up for this at night.  So just try 4 feeds during the day? I don't like such an early bedtime but I guess I can try it. No way to change his clock to 7-7 ah?
Thanks for all the advice.
Shari 

[momofclaire]

Shari,
It is possible to change the clock but in order to do that you have to first be where you want to be with nightwaking and napping and all that. 
I think Rachel was rec 4 feeds and then a bedtime routine that would include another feed.  This is what we refer to as clustering.  Sometimes a baby can tank up in the evening before bed which helps him/her go longer overnight.

Happy Birthday!  It's fine that you slept in a bit, geeze it's your birthday!
I think if you start putting him to bed earlier his sleep will get better and as he gets a bit older you can adjust to a 7-7 if you like.  It takes time and it's always something. 
 

Keep me posted.

[sharig]

Thanks again
I'm glad I can still cluster at night as this is what I've always been doing.  I'm going to try the early bedtime for the next few nights and see how it goes.  This weekend isn't the greatest time to start something new but once I'm into next week I'll get a real chance to see if it's working.  I'm not going to change the one oatmeal feed at the moment cause I want to change only one thing at at time for now.
Thanks for the encouragement.
Shari

[momofclaire]

 Changing one thing at a time is a great plan. I find that sometimes moms want to fix everything at once.  I have fallen into this trap before.    It's really to hard to determine what is working and what isn't when you do that.  Let me know how it goes ok.
Myia

[Alison_3]

Shari,
I just wanted to say I am going through exactly what you are.  My almost 6 month old had been sleeping well (only at night!).  He would sleep 8 hours straight, wake up for a feed and sleep for about 2 more hours.  I was okay with that.  Now he is waking at least 2 times a night and then the other night he was up for 1.5 hours.  He hasn't done that in so long!  He does drain his bottles during the night.  I don't know if I'm creating a problem by feeding him when he wakes up.  We're doing solids in the a.m., but that's it. 

Like you, our feeding times vary doing the day, but normally he feeds every 3.5-4 hours taking 6 oz.   
It's so hard when you're used to getting sleep and the night wakings start again...

I hope things get better for you soon!

[sharig]

Myia
Thanks again for you advice.  I just wanted to give you an update and get a bit of encouragement too.  I ended up changing plans for the weekend a bit so that we could start the changes. For the past 3 nights he's been a asleep by 6:45 and not needed a feed at night.  He's been feeding with much more interest during the day too which is great.  I, contrary to what I said I was going to do, have stopped sloids for the moment now too.  One week from today when he's officially 6 mnoths old I plan to start sweet potatoes. What do you think of that?

However, and here is the big however, he has actually been waking more at night (1 time the 1st night, 2 the 2nd and 4 last night) because he's rolled on his stomach and can't get back onto his back which is the way he always sleeps.  We go in, roll him back onto his back, reswaddle him and leave without saying a thing and he goes back to sleep, but it's still is no fun! 

So, any advice on the rolling issue?  Wait it out until he learns to roll back?  Teach him to sleep on his stomach?  Do you think that the earlier bedtime could be causing him to sleep less soundly so that he is waking and rolling over?  he's been rolling with ease since June 1st but never done it in bed before.
Also:  What do I do if he sleeps past 6:00.  I was thinking to let him sleep until 6:45 if he goes this long (Sunday I woke him at 6:30).
As you can tell I have lots of questions and need a few words of encouragement.  Change is so hard!  Being a mom is so hard some times too!

[heidiruthie]

shari,

i've been reading this thread because my ds seems to be the exact same age as yours and is having the same issues with being hungry at night! i just wanted to let you know that we use a little "wedge" for tristan in bed so that he doesn't roll over. they're foam blocks that go on either side of him and prevent him from moving around..they're fabulous and i'm sure you can find them at any baby store. i've also heard that rolled up blankets on either side can do the trick as well.

being a mom is the hardest thing i've EVER done! big hugs to you and please know that you're not alone. 

[momofclaire]

Shari,
Being a mom is hard. SO HARD.  That is why I love love love this site because you can come for advice, support or to give back to others.  I don't know what I would do without it.  Really.

With regard to the rolling.  PP mentioned those sleep positioners.  I would try that.  We used one until Claire started rolling and scooting her way out of it.  If he can roll over it then you just have to work through it. I would give him a ton of time during the day to practice rolling.  As soon as he learns to roll both ways he won't need your help.

I don't think you HAVE to start solids again in a week.   Personnally, I would wait until you get the sleeping thing a bit under control and then start with a single grain cereal.  Sweet potatoes are pretty easy to digest as are bananas.  You can start with whatever you feel comfortable.

Remember that EASY is not so much a schedule, but a routine.  If he sleeps in (and you are fine with that) let him.  Maybe he will adjust his routine so that you can get up at 6:30 or even 7:00.  It is more about the amount of time between meals and naps and the amount of daytime and nighttime sleep.  If he is up at 7:00 you just adjust the day and put him to bed at 7:00.  Claire did this on her own and it was great. Now I am having to wake her at 8 or 8:30 cause I want to get the day started. 
I hope this has answered your questions.  If not post back. 
Oh, and I just wanted to say that you are doing good and you aren't alone.  We have all been there.
Myia

[sharig]

Thanks so much for the encouragement.  Every time I come on this website I cry, usually just because it is such a comfort to know that others are going through what I am.
We do have a postitioning wedge, but it doesn't seem to be working as he wiggles his way below it and then turns.  Perhaps we'll try a longer wedge. 
I like the idea of letting him sleep until he wakes in the morning!  I'd love to get to a 7:30- 7:30 routine eventually!
Thanks again for everyone's support.
Shari

[RachelC]

{{{{hugs}}}} Shari.  Sounds like a developmental thing!  I agree with Myia to offer tons of day time rolling practice.  He is old enough to sleep on his belly, if you wanted to try that.

As for solids, take your time.  6 months is not a "magic" age to start, if he needs a little more time, that is ok.  Sweet potatoes are a good first food (as are bananas as Myia said... and avocado)

Good luck.  You are a great mom and doing a wonderful job! 

[sharig]

I just need to complain for a minute that I HATE waking Luke up from his naps!!!
There that feels better.  He woke 2 times because of rolling on his stomach last night and did need a feed at 4:00 but I only let him have 1/2 a feed so that he was hungry again when waking at 6:30 for the day.  I'll try to hang in there.
Shari

[RachelC]

Hang in there.  I know, it's so hard to walk in and see peaceful sleeping and have to disturb it. 

[momofclaire]

Hang in there.  It will get better.

[sharig]

RachelC
You initially wrote to me that

I would keep your feeds at a maximum of 4 hours apart during the day.  I am wondering if he is not taking enough during the day and now waking at night.
End of quote


 I've been doing the earlier bedtime and consistant naps for 6 days now and we're back to one night time feed which is where we started off.  He has a tone of things going on developmentally right now, rolling over constantly, and his sitting has gotten a ton better in the past three days. I'm seeing the night feed as a need for some extra calories, though I am starting to reduce the amount he gets at this feed.  However, any other ways to get him to take more during the day? If feeds get further then 4 hours apart, what happens?

[momofclaire]

Why would the feeds get further than 4 hours apart?  I am a bit confused. 
It sounds like things are going much better.
Have you been doing a cluster feed in the evening?

[sharig]

Myia
Things aren't any better.  After the first 3 night of the change, he is waking once at night for a feed which is what I was trying to get rid of in the first place, though I now wouldn't mind having only that problem. Now he is also waking laying on his stomach and needing to be turned over  (we played that game for an hour last night from 11:45 to 12:45) and the last two days he seems to be refusing his cat nap.  This is my angel/ textbook baby who usually settles in 3 mniutes.  The first night it took him over a 1/2 hour to settle and then last night when he didn't settle after 40 minutes of trying I just kept him up until 6 and put him to bed for the night (he'd woken at 7 that morning).  I'm asking about feeds going further then 4 hours apart because if he continues to refuse the cat nap and needs to have longer A times to shift the day slightly feeds would be 4 and 1/2 hours apart. Do you follow?
I'm in quite a desperate place myself.  With lack of sleep I can not handle things well.
Shari

[momofclaire]

I kinda follow.     Can you post the routine to show me? 
It really sounds like a developmental thing.  Are you giving him tons of floor time during the day?  I spent countless hours on the floor rolling Claire over and over. I would help her roll one way across the room and then the other. 

When Claire was 6 months we had a horrible time getting her to go to sleep. I think this age is particularly rough on them.  Do you have a good windown routine?
Hang in there.
Myia

[sharig]

Myia
He refused that cat nap again today. Our wind down routine has always been the same.  5-10 minutes of books, a song or 2 in his room while we cuddle and then to bed (usually whole routine 15 minutes long).  So I'm thinking that he he refuses the cat nap two more days I may try

6:00 breastfeed
8:45 bedtime
10:45 breastfeed
1:15 nap
3:30 breasfeed
5:00 breastfeed
6:00 bedtime routine with top up

(which means that feeds are more the 4 hours apart, unless I feed him again before putting him down for naps, but that sounds dangerous).
I hope you follow.
Shari

[momofclaire]

That routine looks pretty good.  He is awfully young to only have 2 naps but if you make sure they are good ones (at least 1.5 hours) you might be ok. 
Let me know how it goes.
Myia