almost 6mo and waking 3x at night

[heidiruthie]

hello, my ds is 5 3/4 mo and for the past 2 nights has been waking at night every 3-4 hours to eat. i've tried doing pu/pd at these times, which has worked well for him in the past, but his cries get more and more intense. when i feed him, he eats a full meal. i'm thinking its a growth spurt, but was wondering how to change his daytime feeds so that he won't wake at night? i bf on both sides and have tried going back to each breast once more after he is done, to make sure he's super full, but then he just ends up spitting up everywhere, making me think he's over full.

here is my current EASY:

E 5:00 (he used to be up for the day here, now i've finally got him to just eat and then sleep till 7:00. i've tried pu/pd here as well, but he won't have it...he's SUPER hungry!

A 7:00

E 9:00-i make SURE not to bf to sleep because i fell into that habit awhile ago and it was a nightmare to correct! i do a winddown after i feed him.

S 9:15 (sometimes he only sleeps for 1.5 hours here)

A 11:15

E 1:00

S 1:15

A 2:45

E 5:00

S 5:15 (catnap for 45 min-1hour)

A 6:00

E 7:30 (cluster feed)

S 7:45

he then wakes up around 11, 2, and then 5am.

i suppose i'd just like to know how to incorporate 2 or 3 extra feeds into his daytime so that he won't wake at night for them!

let me know if i should post this is breastfeeding instead

thanks!
-heidi

[momofclaire]

Hi Heidi,

I think you may be going through the 6 month growth spurt at the moment and if so, you may have to feed overnight for a few nights. 

I think your sch could use a little tweaking. Is there anyway you could feed at 7:00 and start the day with E instead of A?  I know he's probably not wanting a full feed at 7:00 because of his feed at 5:00 but I think if you work to change that it might help. If you start the day off with a feed you will right there get one extra feed in.  I would shoot for feeds at 7, 11, 3, 5 and 7.  Have you taken a look at sample EASY sch? 
You can't do pu/pd on a baby who is truely hungry so I would give it s few nights to see if you are really having a growth spurt or not. 
Hope this helps a bit. Post back and let me know what you think.
myia

[heidiruthie]

thank you for responding! i would love to be able to do EASY instead of AESY! so i will try feeding him at 7:00. i guess i haven't tried this before because i thought that he'd only snack at 7 and then be hungry earlier for his next feed.

i will keep feeding him overnight as well...this won't turn into a habit, will it? yeah, i really do think this is a growth spurt because this morning he woke up at 7 like normal, but was unusually whiny all morning.

i'll let you know how it goes

thanks so much

-heidi

[momofclaire]

Feeding overnight during a growth spurt is sometimes needed.  Keep in mind growth spurts don't generally last longer than a week. I would try upping his daytime calories in the meantime also to help.
Let me know.
Myia

[heidiruthie]

hi myia,

well, i followed your routine as best i could yesterday and he only woke up once at night (3:00) to eat! then i heard him whimper at 5am, but just listened and he fell back asleep until 6:30!! i'm very happy. thank you for your advice. i think the extra cluster feed really helped him tank up....would you recommend keeping his routine like this even after his growth spurt is over? i just went ahead and fed him at 6:30am to start his day with E...hopefully that 6:30 wakeup will eventually move to 7:00, but i'm not complaining!

[momofclaire]

I think I would keep this routine even after the growth spurt. The key is to really watch your baby, study him, as he holds the answers to what is best for him.  KWIM? 

I am glad it worked out.  Remember that when getting on a good routine, sometimes things can regress shortly so don't get discouraged. Keep track of the times he wakes as well. You may find, after the spurt is over, that you have a habitual wake at 3.  If so, we can maybe try W2S to stop it.  I would continue to listen at 5 and not go in unless he cries.  It is great that he can wake and put himself back to sleep! 
Keep me posted. 
Myia

[heidiruthie]

well, last night he woke up at 12:45 of all weird times. (his last feed was 6:30 and bedtime was 7:00) he wasn't crying, more like talking/whining, so i just let him do that for about 30 min before i went in. the problem was, i didn't think pu/pd would work because he wasn't actually crying. so i just tried to settle him in his crib, but he seemed WIDE awake and kept whining. finally after 20 min of trying to help him back to sleep, i gave in and fed him and he did eat a full feed and fell back asleep. it was odd, though as usually he cries for his meals rather than whines. then he was up again whining at 4:30 and i let him do that until 5:00 when i fed him like normal. he only slept until 6:30, but i waited until 7:00 to feed him again (he didn't eat much at that feed) he's currently on a very good nap, going on 2 hours, but i wanted to ask if you think i did the right thing in feeding him at 12:45. is there another way to calm a baby who is not crying, but not sleeping? it got to the point where i felt we BOTH needed the sleep, so that's why i ended up feeding him. he's never done this whiny thing at night before, usually he just talks in his crib in the morning when he wakes up or when he's finished napping.

[momofclaire]

If he isn't really crying for you I wouldn't go in no matter how long he is awake.  Going in may hinder his ability to put himself back to sleep.  You really want him to be able to soothe himself. 
It is often that a new routine will take really well for a couple days and then there will be a bit of regression. Stick with the plan and give it time.

[heidiruthie]

okay, i understand what you're saying, but how long should i let him go on like that? for as long as it takes for him to fall back asleep? i'm thinking that could be hours! so, even though he ate a full meal at that time, would you say that it wasn't a hunger issue? sorry for all of these questions, i just want to know exactly what i'm doing in case it happens again tonight.

[momofclaire]

I wouldn't go in unless he cries.  If he is up for an hour you might want to go in and pat/shh or pu/pd but I really would give him every opportunity to go back to sleep on his own. 

Do you listen to him through a monitor?  Is it possible to turn it off or at least down so it doesn't wake you so easily. I know this is hard but turning the monitor off was one of the best things I ever did when Claire was little.  Her room is across the hall so it wasn't a problem hearing her if she really cried. 

Repeated waking could be hunger but if he doesn't cry then he probably isn't hungry. Most babies will let you know if they are hungry.
Let me know how it goes.
Myia

[heidiruthie]

unfortunately, ds's room is clear at the other end of the house, so the monitor is kind of necessary. we also have an air purifier that runs during the night in our room, which sort of drowns out some of his noises. i may have to move the monitor into the closet, though as my mom suggested!

so, last night was a weird nap day because he fell off of my bed onto the floor headfirst, which was not fun for either of us! he is fine, but must have had a bit of a headache for the nap that followed the incident because it took A LOT of pat/shhh and just being there with him for him to fall asleep. anyhow, because it took so long, it was too late in the day for a catnap, which also messed up his cluster feed. i put him to bed at 6:15, right after i fed him and he woke up at 11:15 crying for food, probably cuz he missed a feeding during the day. he ate for a LONG time and i thought for sure he'd sleep the rest of the night, but then he awoke right at 3:00, doing his talking/whining thing. by 3:15 the whines were turning into cries, so i did pu/pd and got him down in 15 min. 10 min later he awoke crying. i did pu/pd again, and he awoke a few min later. this went on...and on...finally at 4:00 i fed him, really confused at his cues, not sure if it was hunger or what! he ate okay, fell asleep, then was up again crying at 4:15! by this point i was pretty much DONE! at 4:30 i clued in and tried putting orajel on his gums. he slept till 6:30.

so....i'm not sure if it was just a coincidence that he fell asleep then, or if he actually is teething (no red gums, no white spots, nothing) but i think at any rate i'll be trying the orajel a bit earlier next time!

can you think of any other reason a lo would fall fast asleep, only to awaken 10 min later? he also did that a bit when i put him to bed initially at 6:15, but hasn't done it yet today for the 2 naps he's taken. he's quite touchy, so his cues can be hard to read sometimes (he'll act hungry, even though he's just eaten, or rub his eyes an hour after being awake)

[momofclaire]

I am sorry to hear about his fall.  Don't feel bad Claire feel off the bed when she was 6 months and had a black eye.

   

Falling asleep fast and waking shortly after is usually due to being overtired, although he could have been in pain from the fall. I would work on getting his naps really consistant and really try to watch his cues. I know you said he is hard to read and that does make it difficult.  It sometimes helps to write things down and look for patterns. 

Can you post what his routine has been the last couple of days?
Do you feel as if you are making progress?
I think you are but I understand how it's hard to see it when you are there.
Post back
Myia

[heidiruthie]

i do feel as if i'm making progress. i think that his initial growth spurt is over, but i would love to get rid of these crazy night awakenings! another thing that has improved since yesterday is that i no longer have to do pu/pd for as long as i used to, if at all. he seems to calm down now just by the sound of my voice and my hand on his chest, so that has been great

okay, his routine yesterday was:

A 6:30
E  7:00
S  8:30-10:30
E  11:00
A 11:00-1:20-here is where he fell off the bed
S  - 1:20-3:45tried to put him to bed at 12:30, but he didn't actually stay asleep until 1:20. normally i would have woken him up for his feed at 3, but i thought it may be a good idea to let him sleep longer because of his fall...could have been a mistake
E 3:45
A - 3:45- 6:15no point in doing a catnap, so we just did low key stuff until it was time for bath and bedtime
E  6:00
S  6:15

today's routine was also a little off due to us being at my MIL's for the day and tristan refusing to nap at her house!

A 6:30
E 7:00 (what do you think about feeding him at 6:30 if that's going to be his normal awake time now?)
S 8:15-10:15 (very obvious tired cues, so put him down a bit earlier than normal)
E 11:00
A 10:15-1:30  -i tried putting him down at 12:15 at my MIL's but he refused to sleep, so i kept him up for awhile, as he was doing just fine, then came home and put him down then. woke up at 30 min mark, so i went in and calmed him back to sleep.
S 1:30-3:15
E 3:15
A 3:15-6:15 (again, no point in doing catnap)

-yeah, i can see how its been kind of inconsistant lately, though i've been impressed with his ability to stay awake for 3 hours, especially tonight, as he went down easily and hasn't woken up at all since. i wonder if i should just stick with not doing catnaps anymore...they always seemed to push his bedtime way later, like 7:30 or 8:00.

thank you SO MUCH for helping me get to the bottom of this! i appreciate it so much

[heidiruthie]

just a quick update....last night he awoke crying at 9:30 and very hungry (again, cuz of the missed cluster feed, which i hope to remedy tonight) so i fed him, then he awoke at 1:30 whining. i let him whine until he began crying 10 min later, did pu/pd for 20 min and he only cried louder and louder and acted hungry, so i fed him again and he ate a whole lot again. then he slept till 6:00.

i think i really need to try to get more calories into him during the day! i fed him at 6:00 this morning so that the cluster feed will work out tonight...i would be okay if he only woke up to eat once at night...he used to do that quite frequently and it doesn't bother me too much because he goes right back to sleep. so i'm hoping that by cluster feeding him tonght, that will get rid of one of the wakings...we shall see!

i'm also curious to know what you would recommend for a consistant nap schedule. his A time has been 2 hours for awhile now, but the past couple of days have shown me that he can actually stay awake for 3 and not be too overtired. do you think i should drop the catnap already? i know you must be so busy answering everyone's questions, and mine arent' urgent so take your time, i don't need answers right away!

thanks
-heidi

[momofclaire]

I think you should always feed as soon as he gets up.  So yes, feed at 6:30.  Remember EASY isn't about the clock, it is about the order of events and the cues of your baby. 
Some 6 month olds can handle 3 hours of A time and babies usually have longer A times at the day progresses. 
Your last couple of days have been a bit inconsistant.
A lot of babies drop the cat nap around 7 months.  I think at his age he may still need it. He does need around 4 hours of daytime sleep, maybe even a bit more to keep from getting overtired.  Every baby is different and you will know if he is overtired by how he sleeps at night.

Why not try something like this:
E-6:30 wake and eat
A-6:30-8:30
S-8:30 nap 1.5-2 hours
E-10:00/30
A-10:00/30-12:30/1:00
S-12:30/1:00 1.5-2 hours
E-2:30 (there may be slight variation in the time because of length of naps)
A-Here is where you have to really watch him
If he has had 2, 1.5 hour naps then he will have woke from his second nap at 2:00.  Because bedtime is at 6:30, 4.5 hours might be a stretch for him.  I would offen a catnap of 30-45 min at 4:00.  If he had 2, 2 hour naps he will have woke from the second at 3, which might be fine as 3.5 hours is something he may be able to do.
E-at 4:45 or when he wakes from catnap
A-Do betime routine starting at 6 and include a top up feed. 
S-6:30 bedtime

Does that sound good and make sense?