Help - What are we doing wrong

[NZ MUM]

I started my 8 month on four hour feeds last week and we started using pu/pd for night wakings.  Traditionally he has only ever woken twice a night at the most and usually only once. From day one he has always been put to bed awake and settled himself to sleep, I leave the room straight away.  We do not use a prop however have just introduced a lovie to him. Since following this process I am up as often as 8 times and am starting to get confused as to whether I should have made the swap over.  I would love to know if someone else has had a similar experience and that there is light at the end of the tunnel if I stick with this.

Hi Routine is as follows:

6.30am Wake up
7.00am Breastfeed - usually around 8 mins both sides
8.00am Breakfast
8.30-9.00am Naptime - will nap anything from 45mins to an hour & half although am finding I have to go and resettle after 1hr
11am Breastfeed
12pm Lunch
1.30pm Nap time - same as above
3pm Breastfeed
5.00 Bath
5.30 Dinner
6.30-6.45 Breastfeed
7pm Bed


He has just started scuffling forward in the last couple of weeks and at this stage no signs of any teeth!!  Any ides would be greatly appreciated.

[Layla]

Hi & welcome!!!

Since following this process I am up as often as 8 times

When he is awake, does he just stir or make noises & you can hear him? Or is he up & crying? How do you respond?

The only thing I would suggest is to try & extend his A time in the morning:

6.30 - wake
9.30 - morning nap
10.30 - wakes from nap
1.30-2pm - afternoon nap
3-3.30 - wakes from nap
7pm - bedtime

If you have noticed a pattern that a long morning nap will affect his afternoon nap (that is, its short nap), then I personally wouldn't be trying to extend the morning nap any more than 1hr. A nap of 1hr is restorative enough (sometimes 45mins is also in the morning) so 1hr is a good nap! Don't let him sleep more than 1hr in the morning if that means he will be sleeping 45mins in the afternoon cause he will just get overtired by bedtime & this can cause nightwakings as well.

Milestones can also throw them off... so if he's learning a new thing, he is probably up at night practising.

Layla

[NZ MUM]

Hi Layla,

Thank you so much for responding I will give it a go! When he wakes he first stirs and sometimes re-settles and othertimes start crying then I go in put a hand on him say a few words and try to resettle him.  This seems to work but what is happening is he is waking after 30mins to 1 1/2 later!!!  Is this common when trying to re work their night wakings?

I know we are only in the early stages of this but I feel as though we have gone backwards.  He seems to nap better in the afternoon and always has so even though now I resettle him, he will do a good afternoon sleep. 


Could he be getting use to me re settling him and now finding it hard to do himself? 

Thanks for your support
 

[Layla]

The thing is, we all wake at night & if he is just stirring and/or making noises then I would leave him. I wouldn't go in unless he really needs you (& he will let you know by crying). Not every cry means he needs you either cause he could be doing a mantra cry, in which case, he is learning how to self soothe. So listen out & if you think he really needs you, go in and reassure him with shh/pat & leave when he is settling down.

Could he be getting use to me re settling him and now finding it hard to do himself? 

Well this depends on how yuou are resettling him. If you are resettling him until he is fast asleep, then it could be that you are a prop. So again, try not to stay there too long. Resettle until he is calming down & let him finish it off on his own.

It could also be a case of 1 step forward, 2 steps back. I don't think you should give up! You're doing great!!! & YES, there is a light at the end of the tunnel .

What was he sleeping like before? You mentioned that he only had 2 nightwakings. Did you used to feed him or rock him to sleep??? He could be going through some regression as well.... which is very common when sleep training.

[NZ MUM]

From day 1 my DS has gone to sleep on his own without feeding or rockin at around 8 weeks he started sleeping from 7.00pm untill around 3.00am ( that would be lovely)  I would then feed him and he would wake around 5.30-6.00am.  Before this he recently started waking an hour after going to bed and I would pick him up and then resettle and then he would wake around 4am where I would feed him and again go down till around the same time.  In the past I would not talk to him during the night.

I think maybe I am in the room too long so I will give your suggestion a go!!     I find when I feel he has settled normally he will wake 30 mins later or sooner so that is why I have been waiting longer.  I will stick it out as he is such an angel and I do not want to confuse him anymore!

Thank you for your support it means a lot and is great to hear your suggestions

[Layla]

So basically you are doing pu/pd to eliminate the night feeds? You know some babies hold on to that night feed until they are 1yo. In  my case, #1 had her night feed until she was 9mo & I stopped when she showed me clear signs of not being hungry (like she would drink 30ml & then want to play)... #2 was around 8 months also when she stopped needing the feed. I guess what I am saying is that, if he is waking 30mins-1hr after you are settling him, it could very well be that he is truly hungry. Was he eargerly drinking the milk or 1/2 heartedly? You could try watering down the night feed instead.... which kinda makes them take up more calories during the day & its not really worth their while to wake up for very watered formula

Just another thought

[NZ MUM]

Well the main reason to do PU/PD was really to extend his wake up time which had got as early as 5am and then yes I did try to cut out the morning feed.  In saying that I have the last three nights given him a feed, he does take a good feed but it is now around 2am and normally it would have been 4am.  Normally he does not really have a good feed though so this is why I thought he may be ready to drop it - he is defiantly not short of calories   Then he wakes around 4am and is very hard to get back to sleep from that time.  I am more than happy to keep giving him his 4am feed as long as I have too - but just need to eliminate these multiple wake up which have only being going on since sunday.

Last night was a little more successful only up 4x 5mins each 1x bf and then from 5.20am could not get him back to sleep he has just gone back done now for morning sleep 8.45am as he is exhausted and I will slowly stretch out to 9.30am nap time.  I was able to go in put my hand on him and then he settled himself back to sleep I put him to bed at 6.40 last night and then he woke an hour after that , 2 hours after that and then 1 1/2 to 2 hours from then on.   It is hard not to feel like I have totally mucked things up for him   Do you think it could be a bit of separation anxiety?  He is also still in a safety sleep do you think this may being causing him to wake now he is more active as it will be restricting his movement?

Interested in your thoughts

[Layla]

Are you talking about the thing that stops them from rolling over?

I didn't realise he was waking up early to start the day? It might be that the bedtime hour was too late or the pm nap was too long or too close to bedtime. That schedule you posted before... is that what he was doing?

If he is up as early as 5ish, I wouldn't push him to 9.30. Start with 9am (no earlier) but again, don't let him sleep past 1hr cause sometimes they make up for the night in the morning nap. Then do the pm nap approx 3hrs later.

I put him to bed at 6.40 last night and then he woke an hour after that , 2 hours after that and then 1 1/2 to 2 hours from then on

Just wondering if anything else could be bothering him??? I would try to put him down without the safety thingie... have you thought of a gro-bag instead?

[Layla]

Ok, I know exactly what you are talking about it & I used to have that for Isabella (just googled it & triggered my memory). When she learnt how to roll back and forth I took it away, so I would say it could most certainly be annoying to him now. Take it off & let him crawl around the cot & get the feel of falling asleep in different positions. The instructions say you can use it until they are 3 but I really can't see my dd is it now - she would flip over something like that .

[NZ MUM]

Thanks you are a great help
Sorry for my confusion the above is his current routine altough a couple of times this week I have struggled to get him back until 6.30am.  I will defiantly only let him sleep for 1hr in the morning as you are right this could be affecting things.    In the afternoon he normally up from 3pm till bed. 

He is in a gogo bag which is great so I will try taking him out of the safety sleep.  I will keep you posted on how we go.  An over cautious mother huh!!   

Thanks for your help and fingers crossed

 

[NZ MUM]

Well we have been trying this for two weeks and it would be fair to say we are no better off   Actually worse off!!!  Over the last two weeks the best night we have had was up twice, even though he cried out he settled himself.  But that was one night, last night I was up nearly every 1 1/2 hours.  He does have a cold but not sure if this is the reason?   I had thought things would have been better but now his 8 hour stints seem like a distant memory.  Would be keen for any suggestions.  He is having an hour nap  around 9am and then 1 1/4 to 1 1/2 at 1.30pm .  He is such an angel and I would not mind being up once to feed but having to resettle him as often as I am at 8 1/2 months seems a little too much.

[Layla]

I'm sorry things are still tough . 'When he wakes, do you do pu/pd or are you there with him until he is asleep? Do you think you might have become a prop?

What time is bedtime?

[NZ MUM]

It is all part and parcel of parenting - huh and the fact that he is such a delight other than this makes up for it

No I do not have to do pu/pd, i just place my hand on him and tell him to go back to sleep and once he is settling I leave - normally before he is asleep.  Although at 5 this morning he would not go back too sleep, so I know he is overtired.  He normally goes to bed between 6.30 and 7 depending on his afternoon nap but lately has been waking 1hr after and then we play rock around the clock from then on!

I guess something is bothering him could be his cold, or perhaps he is struggling to crack his teeth?  I just keep thinking when he is 15 I won't be able to get him out of bed

[Layla]

It could be the cold & teeth bothering him.

Do you mean he is waking 1hr into his afternoon nap & you rock him to try & extend it? (sorry its around 7.30am here & I am a bit slow)

[NZ MUM]

Sorry no I meant that he is waking an hour after he has gone down at nighttime