Need advice...could 9.5 mo old be ready for one nap?

[newmom7]

Hello, my ds is 9 1/2 mo. old and was sleep trained using BW methods starting just before he turned 8 months. We had a very rough first month of sleep training, with lots of short naps and early wakes, but after about the first month things got on track. He was sleeping 10-11 hours at night and taking 2 naps a day of at least an hour each or more usually equaling 2 -2 1/2 hours of naps a day. About a week ago though his nap times started getting erratic....first his a.m. nap got longer (like 1 1/2 or 2 hours) for a few days and his p.m. nap went to only 45 minutes, then it reversed a few days ago to a short a.m. nap and longer afternoon nap. His bedtime stayed consistent (6:30p.m. I know early but that's about all he can handle), but his wake times have been getting about an hour earlier too for the past few days like he is not that rested. Then today, he refused to take his morning nap at all. He has never done that. So after 45 min. of trying to soothe him, I let him get up and he played fine. I knew he'd be tired for his p.m. nap early so I fed him lunch 45 min. earlier, let him play and put him down for nap 1 hour early. Now he's been sleeping 15 minutes.  Anyone have any idea if he is just trying to drop to one nap? Is it too early? I thought this didn't happen until 1 year or later. 

I also noticed that his bottle feeding preferences have slightly changed too...I usually feed him 4 bottles per day and 3 solid food meals (solids and liquids staggered at separate times). He doesn't seem to want to drink the whole bottle all the time, so I think that a bottle every 4 hours is too close. He has been teething on and off which I know can affect it, but that passed and then he still would have some bottles where he didn't drink it all. In any case today since he refused the a.m. nap, I just eliminated the bottle I normally give when he gets up from his a.m. nap and gave him like 2 oz. at lunch. I figure I will just add the rest of the ounces to his other two bottles later to make up for it. Any advice on that topic?

Man the book isn't kidding!!! Just when you think you got it, everything DOES change!!!  It is especially confusing b/c so much is going on...he is teething alot on and off, has a bit of stranger and separation anxiety now, plus he has just learned to pull up and do a lot more other motor skills so at first I was inclined to say it could have been one of those things disrupting sleep, etc, but now I am not sure and think maybe he is just ready for one longer nap.  I need help so I don't totally destroy my EASY routine.....If nap times change I imagine you have to tweak the feed times as they get older too right? Hope this all makes sense. Any advice or your experiences would be appreciated.
Thanks!
 

[*Natasha*]

Could you post your routine with wake up time and times he was going down for his naps?

[newmom7]

Sure thanks. His routine was this:

5:45 a.m. to 6a.m. wake (might play in crib until 6:30) then bottle
8:00 or 8:15 solids
9:15 a.m. nap until 10 or 10:45 usually latest
10:45 bottle
12:15 solids lunch
1:15 nap until 2 or 2:45 usually latest
2:45 bottle
5:15 solids dinner
6:00 bath, bottle
6:30-6:45 bedtime

His naps always started at consistent times above as did bedtime and no real resistance to the naps for quite awhile, but like I said, they were getting variable in lenght more and more lately...anywhere from 45 minutes to up to 1 1/2. 

Today after taking no a.m. nap, I fed him lunch early at 11:20 and gave him a small bottle (2 oz only) since he never got his 10:45 bottle as he skipped his nap.  I put him down around 11:45 a.m. and he fell asleep by 12. He tried to get up at 12:45 but I went in and patted him, put his music box back on and he fell back to sleep within 15 minutes and slept until 2:40 p.m. for about a total of 2 1/2 hour nap. I put him down for bed at 6:45 (my dh did) and it is now 7:22 and he has been crying the whole time. Every time dh leaves he screams but when he goes back in the room our ds starts playing and then crying again while he is there. I just don't know what to do. Just when I started to be able to function on this routine, it ended. It seems like it is separation anxiety and overtiredness to me. Also, like I said he just started pulling up this week (although he hasn't pulled up in his crib yet) so I don't know what to do about soothing a baby through possible upset from developmental milestones.

I am just so UPSET since I JUST got this routine down and now it is like it never existed, and my life is back to UNPREDICTABLE CHAOS again which is just SO UPSETTING. I can't even tell you. I totally understand why people give up on this method and try something else, b/c when you did all the hard work of starting and implementing it, it is just TOO hard to start all over again not even a month later with all the crying and resistance. Sorry, had to vent! Appreciate any help as now I am just desperate as to what action to take? Back to the old routine tomorrow?
 
Thanks.

[KathrynK]

hi there
firstly, don't panic! 9-10 mo is an age where lots of changes happen and it's always really confusing. We'll try to help you get back on track!
it sounds like he might be ready for more A time during the day. Usually that's the case when lo's start to revert back to 45 min naps.
I would perhaps leave his first A time as it is, that first A time of the day tends to be the shortest so if it's 3hr 15 from 6am to 9.15am and that works for him then don't change it. (The day he refused the am nap, had he woken much earlier or later than normal? If he woke earlier than 6 it's possible he was overtired by nap time and that's why he refused it. )
I would then try stretching his next A time so it's roughly 3.25 to 3.5 hours from when he woke from the first nap- depending on the length of the first nap. The longer the nap, the longer the A time he is going to be able to handle before his next nap, iykwim? For example if he naps 1.5 hours I would definitely go for 3.5 hours A time. But if he only naps 45 mins, he may only handle 3 hrs A time afterwards.
Hopfeully he will then get a decent pm nap. If he takes a long am nap and then refuses a pm nap we may have to suggest some more tweaking.

With regard to the bottle, we had dropped a bottle by 9 mo and were on 3 a day. By 10 mo we were on 2 a day, although she had lots of cheese and yoghurt in her diet to make up for it. It's very common for lo's at this age to start to refuse bottles, they don't want quite as much milk, so you could drop one of his bottles and make it up with extra yoghurt and cheese as a snack instead.
It also sounds like you have some SA going on too. I don't have much experience with this but I know there are lots of posters out there who have.
hope this helps a little

[newmom7]

Thank you thank you!!! Glad to hear I am not going crazy! I had heard 9-10 months can be tough for sleep, but I guess I didn't want to admit the cause could be something I may not be able to help him with...

Anyhow, yes, yesterday he did wake up REALLY early for the day....like 5a.m. (although I didn't get him from his crib until 6) so maybe that is why he refused his a.m. nap because it was 4 hours of a.m. A time at that point.

As far as his bedtime last night...he finally fell asleep after about 45-50 minutes of fussing/ crying and my dh in and out of the room. That was on 4 hours of A time between his afternoon (and only nap yesterday) of 2 1/2 hours. He seemed overtired though. what are good A times for the end of the day...does it totally depend on the length of the last nap, or total amount of sleep for the day? Do you think 4 hours of A time at the end of the day is too much for his age? If so, maybe that's why he wakes early sometimes?

This a.m. he did wake early again after falling asleep 1 hour later...he woke a little later... about 5:45 this time (no NW), and I got him around 6. By 8:50 a.m. he was fussing, rubbing eyes and pulling his ears so I put him down for nap by 8:55, he fussed a few minutes and he now has been sleeping 45 minutes. We'll see how long this nap goes. I am afraid to let it go too long, b/c as you suggested it might make his p.m. nap shorter, which would then call for a much earlier bedtime and then possibly more early waking. Also, with our ds, my experience has been that no matter what time he goes to bed at night, he usually wakes up around the same time the next a.m. (and sometimes earlier if he is overtired or something disturbs his sleep like a leaky diaper or teething, etc.)

As far as the # of bottles, thanks for the advice...that's good to know. I am going to eliminate his mid a.m. bottle and give a snack as you suggested.  He won't drink from a sippy cup yet...he basically just throws it on the floor and shakes all the liquid out. Guess he's not ready yet    He also isn't too interested in finger foods just yet. He will pick them up and throw them usually, or sometimes he mouths whatever it is and spits it out. It's kinda funny. He is into throwing everything from his high chair down onto the floor at this point so I am still feeding him baby foods mostly.  He seems afraid of the textures of finger foods, but then again he is just learning. He mostly only eats stage 2 baby foods b/c he refuses meat baby foods and my pediatrician advised against giving him any citrus (including tomatoes) until 12 months of age or later, and alot of the stage 3 foods contain tomato paste. He also advised against eggs and milk or milk products until then, so I haven't given him cheese yet. Doesn't that sound kinda strict? We do have a few food allergies in our family, but that doesn't seem to be the reason for his advice.

Well going to run for now...I will update later on how the rest of the day goes. Any other input or advice you have on anything else I wrote in this post would be appreciated. Thanks and sorry this is SO LONG!
 

[KathrynK]

hi again
I know with my dd there's no way she could handle 4hrs of A time at that age, and especially not before bedtime. Our routine at 9mo was like this:
6.30am wake
9.30am nap
11am wake
2.30pm nap
4pm wake
7pm sleep

you can see her longest A time was always in the middle of the day- from pm nap to bedtime she always needed less A time, so yes, I think the long A time before bed could well be contributing to those early wake ups. If  dd woke up early from pm nap I would always put her to bed early as too-long A time always gives us early wakings.

Sounds like refusing the am nap was definitely due to o/t. As he appears to be overtired I wouldn't worry about the length of the am nap at the moment, I would let him sleep as long as he needs so he can catch up a bit. When lo's are heading for the transition to 1 nap then the long am nap can interfere with the pm nap, but you don't usually see this until almost 1yo so for now I would just let him sleep. Keep that first A time to 3hrs for now so he can catch up.

As for the night sleep, my dd is the same in that she seems to have an internal alarm clock set for the same time each morning. This can be a good thing as it means when she is extra tired I can give her an early night and she will still sleep until normal time. If you think he needs an early night, then give it to him, he is likely to sleep until normal time, early nights don't tend to cause early wakings, it's usually the opposite. (there are a few babies where this isn't the case but there's always exceptions!)hope this helps again, let us know how you are getting on x

[newmom7]

Thanks! Yes, I agree it could have been he was overtired when he skipped that a.m. nap b/c ever since that day he has gone back to 2 naps a day, and now they are getting to be normal length again...actually he has taken two 1 1/2 hour naps ever since that day and gone to bed and woken up a little later each day...we are almost at normal wake up time. And here I thought things were going downhill again! We had a really tough time in the beginning.

Also thanks for posting the routine...that's good to know about the A times for a 9 mo. old...so far we have been sticking to 3.25 to 3.5 hours of A time before bed, as long as he had a 1.5 hour nap both in the a.m. and afternoon, b/c then he is pretty well rested. Other than that, we stick to 3 hours of A time also before bed.

Our ds has gone back to only slightly earlier wake ups...not as early as 5a.m. like it was before. Now it is more like 5:30 or 5:45 but I figure that's normal for him since he goes to bed most nights at 6:30 so a 5:45 wake up is 11 hours of sleep. I will keep you posted about things. So the question is....how will I know when he's really ready for 1 nap? Just consistently shorter and shorter naps both times of the day?

[AnnieG]

Hello,

Newmom- I can so relate to your frustration and I am glad that things seem to be getting back on track for you and ds! 

I am so glad I looked at this post.  I am having a very difficult time with my 9mo as well.  She used to have the textbook schedule until 8mos and then the naps started to become 45min.  She has gone back to an 1 1/2 hr nap in the a.m., but for some reason the afternoon continues to be 45min and she is clearly tired by late afternoon, but refuses a catnap which she really needs because she barely makes it until 6p.  I really need to move the naps to later in the day but can't seem to due to such a short awake time in the a.m. Any input would be greatly appreciated!!  Here is our current, not so good, schedule:

6a-wake/Bottle
7a- solids
7:45- 9:15 nap(she has been yawning and rubbing eyes by 7:30 so I think she wakes earlier than 6)
10a-Bottle
11:30-Lunch
12:15- 1:00 nap
2p-Bottle
4p-Dinner
5:30 bath and bottle
6p-Bed (5 hrs of A Time...Yikes!!)

Thank You!

[newmom7]

Hi!
Wow, that's a tough one. I would say that your lo is most likely waking before 6a.m. since there is such a short A time in the a.m. before the first nap. I think the 9-10 mo. time frame is an unpredictable one for sure!  I wish I could give you some good advice....I have heard from other moms that the a.m. nap is an extension of night time sleep and a long a.m. nap usually contributes to the short p.m. nap.  I have gotten the advice to wake our lo up after 1 hour in the a.m. to get a longer p.m. nap (when he wasn't taking a long p.m. nap), so then there would be less A time in the afternoon before bedtime. Have you tried that? I think that may have worked for us at some point when we were first doing sleep training but honestly I haven't done that lately because his short nap is usually in the a.m. if he has one, and late last week when he was sleeping 1 1/2 hours each time I didn't have any problems with his sleep really.

I guess I have just been going with the flow ever since the day he refused his a.m. nap. It seems like I am always adjusting his nap and bedtime schedule a little bit to try to work out any problems. It seems like every few days he either has a short nap or gets up early from one or both of them. Then other days he wakes early. It is very difficult to know what's coming next. I have concluded he still needs 2 naps though. Also, I tried to eliminate one bottle and he is back to taking it again, although he doesn't drink much...guess he isn't ready to give it up quite yet.

Hang in there and let me know if you try waking your lo early from the a.m. nap. It will mess up your schedule a little bit at first, but you may end up with a better one  (and you can always go back to the old one if you have to)