SA after vacation

[thomassm]

Hi there we have just got back from Canada after a 3 week vacation and my 28 month old seems to have developed SA.  Whilst there she was with me and DH all the time and she slept in the same room as us, now home, she can't seem to be parted from me and she won't settle at bedtime or naptime I guess cos I am not in the same room as her and also the 5 hour time difference.
We have been back 4 days and the first 3 she went down but woke at 11pm, I went in her room and then stayed until she fell asleep, last night was the worst, she woke after an hour then took 3 hours to go to sleep even with me in the room with her.
My question is am I doing to correct thing, should I just stay in the room with her until she falls asleep or should I be doing WI/WO, she went through a similar thing a few months ago and it seemed to rectify itself after a few nights of me sleeping in there.  Any advice appreciated.

[MDHmommy]

Just popping on here as we've got the identical problem

[thomassm]

Hi hon, yeah I posted to your original post as well.  Couldn't get DD to sleep for her nap this afternoon, tried WI/WO but it just made her cry even more, so eventually lay on bed and she was asleep in 5 mins, only problem is I don't want to have to go to bed every night at 8pm with her.  She did go through this before and after 3 nights of laying in room with her she was ok again, but after vacation it seems that the 2 weeks of us being in the room with her, she now expects it and I have to say I can't see how staying until she falls asleep is ever going to get her out of it, guess I'll just have to perservere cos I just don't know what else to do.  Keep me posted about your little monkey.

[MDHmommy]

That's the thing that's so difficult, IMO about Wi/Wo....you really have to understand and read the cries.

In the past when I've done it with DS the crying gets worse, yes, becuase he is mad and upset that I keep leaving! But typically, he settles down once he realizes that I'll come back, that I'm not leaving forever, and most importantly, all the fuss is getting him no where, he's still going to bed!

But something seems different this time for some reason, and it seems that may be the case with your DD as well...it's like he's completely terrified or something, it's the strangest thing. He's totally hysterical crying but then when I come in, he hands me his blanket like "here mom!" lies down for me to cover him with it and looks like he's going to go to sleep. He even will point to the rocker like "sit there, mom" but if I say - no, it's sleep time and you're a big boy, you can sleep on your own...he gets hysterical again, and then I leave and it just repeats. Last night after a while he was taking paci out of his mouth when I got back, saying "Hi" handing me the blanket and lying down.

It was almost like he wanted to check to make sure that I wasn't mad with him or somethign...I don't know, this is so difficult. It was a lot easier when he was littler....

[Gippie]

Hi there Kate and thomassm -

I will start by saying, "in my experience..." and let you decide the rest.    I hate WI/WO for the exact reasons Kate (MDH) said...he gets upset and I have yet to hear people say it "works like a charm" as they do other things like W2S.  I feel WIWO might work with a restless toddler who is NOT in cry mode, who wants to play....you know...when they aren't in "fit" mode.   

I went through some sleep issues with Quinn who is and was a GREAT sleeper - but we had a blip on the radar screen that took 60 days to remedy - I guess the point here is I dont think there is a "fast fix".  OUr issue started with needing a 2-1 nap transition, not seeing it and doing a lot of AP to fix it nad then needing to fix the AP and adjust the nap.

So what worked.   I slept on the floor (and was working full time) on a blow up mattress.   Each time she woke, I was there already and not anxious to leave and frustrated to come back....I was there for the night (sigh).   I would note wake times on my cell phone for my info.   When she woke, I would reach my hand in her crib (touch her) from my post on the floor and say a reassuring statement.   As the nights wore on, I would just say my reassuring phrase that we had already associated with my presence and my touch.    More nights go by and less wakes, but when she does, same words of comfort.   Move bed further away - and my voice is further away.   Wait till a night when she sleeps through - go back to room.  If she wakes - go to room and say the phrase and go back to your bed.

It worked...she was back to sleeping and all was good.   We had some blips like this when we came back from a few days of her sleeping near us...and used the same GW (on a smaller scale) to get back on track.    I think a committed effort to GW is a great idea....WIWO causes a lot of stress...I would persoanlly not use it - I think it is meant for a child in a less stressed state of mind.   The blow up bed was $10 at walmart (wink wink).

This too shall pass!

Stacey
That is what we did (gradual withdrawl) meshed with a plan for Marshall

[MDHmommy]

Thanks Stacey, I think you're right. I've been kind of fighting with it in my mind because I have done the air mattress thing...in our case I did it for almost 3 months! But I think you're right.

Since I've been able to stay all the way accross the room for the past few nights without any trouble, and without actually having to pat or anything, just to quietly call out and say ssshhh, sleep time, I'll try that and see how it goes.

Did you keep the air mattress set up all the time, or did you put it away? Did Quinn notice when you did dismantle and wonder why, revert? Where's your journal post? Is that on Toddler Sleep? I'd like to read it again.

K

(Sorry if I hijacked your thread thomasm - hopefully this is all v. helpful for you too

[Gippie]

Kate - here it is....

https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=86026.0  my situation, as I mentioned was from the 2-1 mess and all of the AP I did before I knew what was "up".   I left the bed in her room and I let her jump on it a lot and then one day just out it away.   Perhaps as you do this - you could (that night) start a BRAND NEW wind down routine.    I did that recently when we ook away Quinn's bottles - I totally changed the night bit  - full change to not confuse her between the old and the new.   Wind down used to be in her room, now it is out in the living room.   

I love to lay down with her and at night she will say "mama down" and I lay with her, sometimes hold her hand as I lay on the floor and then I walk out.   I hear her fuss for a minute and then she is asleep.   

Everyone has an opinion on what todo and I am not saying this is the RIGHT way - just what we did and what worked.   My cousin was laughing at me when I told her I slept on the floor...until she had the SAME issue after 10 days in Florida...she did the floor thing and it worked with her 8mo.   

How long have you been addressing THIS specific issue?

[thomassm]

Hi Gippie, thanks for that, I have decided not to do WI/WO either and just do the GW method thanks for sharing your experiences you have made a tired mum very happy.
xxx

[Gippie]

Glad our experience can help....I think GW is gentler on all of those of us involved and I rally dont think a frantic todler "gets" the WIWO bit as we do....it reminds me of someone showing me a chocolate cake in small intervals while I am on a crash diet - now what good is THAT....let me have a peice of the darn cake and then cut me smaller ones....and wean me that way - wink wink!

[MDHmommy]

We've only been dealing with this issue since Saturday. He was fine before we went on vaca - but I'm not really 100% sure. I think he might have woken 2 nights before vaca and we let him cry.....and then when we were on vaca and all in one room, he woke a few times, but I just talked to him from my bed and it was fast, like 2 seconds.

One night though when we were on vaca Kris and I went out after M was in bed and Great Grandma and some other relatives were home. Marshall woke up and Kris cousin, who Marshall hardly even knows...went in to get him, and he freaked. I should have left more specific instructions on what to do ... but he had not been waking up! So anyway, after that happened and we got home, I had to lie with him in our bed to get him settled for sleep and I ended up falling asleep and Kris moved him to the crib when he came in to go to bed. Marshall woke once that night, but I just talked to him and he was fine.

So...on the Saturday that we got home he woke and it went on with crying for about 2 hours - maybe in 10-15 minute intervals (I know...CIO is evil, and anyone who is reading this thinking of CIO...it obviously does not work...look at the mess we're in now!!) and then it just got progressively worse so that now he won't even go to sleep without a major issue.

Hopefully, since it has not been going on for that long really in the scheme of things, it won't take that long to fix it either. Consistency is going to be key.

We need to get rid of the bottle too - maybe I'll change the whole routine around.

Right now we do bath then teeth then lotion and PJs followed by bottle while reading books in rocking chair in his room, then lights out then crib for songs and sleep.

I like the idea of bath, then lotion and PJs then reading books in my bed with a sippy of milk, then brush teeth, then songs in rocking chair in his room, then into crib for sleep. I'll go lie on the AM rather than leave, till he falls asleep, then head back in when it's time for me to go to bed. What do you think of that?

[Gippie]

Kate - thats what I did, wait till she was asleep and went back in there as if it was my bed  .  OH - getting rid of the bottle - we did it overnight cause the DR said it could be adding to the ear issues.   THAT night we changed her WHOLE bedtime routine and changed the way she had milk....maybe do it all NOW...I mean if you have a sleep disturbance, why fix it and then take away the bottle and have another potential issue?   Just a thought.   

as far as where you read books....if he is having seperation issues - maybe steer clear of you and DH's bed....I also started THAT bad habit with Quinn.  There was a time when she would run into OUR room and  hit the bed and say "mama"  - clearly she wanted me THERE!!!!!   Broke THAT one by going in and (again) napping on HER floor.....

DId I mention when the bottle went we also redid her room and took the front rail of her crib off (now a daybed)- she had a TOTAL revamp of her world when we changed the bottle - so it was cool.  We transformed her room to ELMO - it's cute!

[MDHmommy]

Ok, so here's what we did tonight...It's 7:52 and M is sleeping soundly.

Bedtime routine as normal, but sippy cup rather than bottle. You're probably right about changing the order of things - I do want the milk before the teeth, but didn't deal with it tonight. He did totally fine drinking from the cup - but I noticed that he did not drink as much milk as normal - and it took him a bit longer to settle into that mushy sleepy state. So we read some more...

Then I put him in his crib, and he kept saying Mama - and pointing to the AM. I just reassured that yes, I would lie there, so we sang songs like normal and then I went and lay on the AM. He peeked at me a couple of times, and I got up and left after about 10 minutes. Seems fine so far.

I think that my plan will be to just ride this out - sleeping in his room until he does a couple of consecutive nights without calling out for me. Then I'll leave the mattress in his room, and sleep in my own bed, going in only if he calls out for me. Then once he's made it a few consecutive nights without waking up at all, we'll move out the Air Mattress. That should be in time for his second birthday 

[Gippie]

Sounds great.  Don't look at it as if you will be there forever....it won't be that bad!    I always felt that a GOOD night on he floor was a lot better than a broken, crying night in my bedroom.

Congrats on the sippy.  Quinn takes less at night, and sometimes none!!!!!   In the AM she gets a cup and will drink almost all of it and has more throughout the day.    The best thing I did was DROP the bottle and NEVER go back!

Congrats on a positive night!

[thomassm]

Hi there, just to let you both know, we had an excellent night last night, put her to bed at 8pm and had to wake her at 8:15 this morning.  She has gone up for her nap no problem today hopefully we are back on track, thanks a million again for the advice.

[MDHmommy]

That's fantastic thomassm!

Our night was a solid o.k. he started to stir at about 9:30 when I turned on the alarm - it makes a lot of noise when it's being turned on - and so I just went to bed then, in his bed.

He stirred and called out twice, and I just shhed him and said sleep time, from my bed. And he slept until 6:25. That's the longest he's slept in for several days. Hoping that we'll be back on track within the next few weeks, I'm not a huge fan of the air mattress! Especially when I have to go to work in the morning!!