anyone want to chat about the 2-1 nap switch , thread#2

[Isabella's Mummy (Lilab4)]

Have you encouraged that somehow? I appreciate that it is a pain for you on occassions, but I can also see some advantages. Isabella is really a bed for sleep person, she plain refuses to go to bed if she isn't up for sleeping! Since she was younger I have kept her in her cot for as long as possible when she woke, so I don't think it's anything to do with that...I have tried letting her play in her cot in the day. She is happy to do so for a short while, but if the blind is down and she is going in her sleeping bag, it is another matter!

By the way, we had another 1 nap day today, think I may have let her sleep a little too long, but I guess we will see.......

[samijoe]

Avery is the same as Kaleb in this respect.
She will sing, chat, talk to things on her wall...scream at the top of her lungs etc.  But she does it all happily till she is supposed to get up or go to sleep, whenever that may be.

Can't think of anything i have done to encourage it.



sami

[debo620]

yup Noah is the same, usually he is quiet for a few minutes of playing with his lovie, but then he just talks and sings until he is asleep or after 30min or so after waking in the am.
after naps , he usually wants up within about 10min

also cant do ANYTHING to get him back to sleep

[samijoe]

oops i did forget to say that SOMETIMES i can get Avery to go back to sleep...but usually only in illness, and rarely in teething.  at least for naps.

i don't usually have a problem getting her back to sleep at night.



sami

[M and N's Mom]

My DS will play before naps and bedtime, but wants up immediately upon waking from naps. He still wakes crying after naps, even if it has been a good nap.    He will sometimes play in the morning a little bit.  He has 3 lovies (and yes, he must have all 3) that he plays with.  I have put a few other soft toys in there but I don't think he really plays much with them.

[Tor]

Hi

My DS is just 11 months, he is a text book baby and until about one week ago this was his routine:

Wakes 7am bottle 8oz
8am weetabix
10am sleep til about 11.15
12 solids for lunch eats lots
2.00 sleep til 3.15
5pm solids and fruit
6.45 bath
7pm 8oz bottle and bed

Either sleeps through til about 6am or wakes at 5am has a bottle and then sleeps til just after 7

This routine was fine, last week I was out and about alot and he missed two/three days of going to sleep in his bedroom and just either missed his sleep or had a cat nap in the car for about half hour.  He slept for normal length of time in he morning whilst out and about.

The days he missed his sleep totally in the afternoon, I put him to bed just after 6.30 and he slept through to gone 7.

The past two days we have tried very hard for over an hour getting him to have pm sleep and he is not having it, he usually goes to sleep by himself no problem.

Is this a sign of being ready for 2-1 transition or is he too young and it's just the break in his routine?  He is far more grumpy during the day than normal, he has started screaming for things and if things are taken off him but I think that might be just a normal thing to start happening about now.

Advice needed please!

Tor

[debo620]

Hi Tor,
perhaps try and cut the am nap to 1hr and then next nap at 2pm...
if he is still refusing to sleep at 2pm, then leave the am nap at 10am but cut it to 45min, and then offer next nap slightly earlier--maybe 1:45 until 3:15 or so.
HTH

Stacy, love your new avatar, I had to really LOOK at that pic and laugh. those must be Kalebs underwear LOL

Noah is just changing, a real toddler now, he is spending ALOT of time in his crib not sleeping. he is playing and singing and talking ALOT, I wonder if it his time to practice.

[debo620]

thats funny, I actually thought at first that he was wearing like a chef hat and was cooking with you in the kitchen! cute pic---thats a keeper.

[irish3680]

Hi Ladies,

I have posted on here a few times and received great feedback and was hoping I could get some more as we are changing things once again. Ella will be 1 year on the 25th. She has been waking early in the am and taking longer and longer to fall asleep at naps and bedtime. I didn't change anything last week because her b-day/baptism party was Sunday and I knew it would be an off day. Yesterday I started with the 30 min am nap (as recommended, she was having 45 mins previously) and she did fine with it. I think I let her sleep too long in the pm. She went down fine at bedtime, but woke early again this am. Before a few weeks ago, she would be asleep about 5 minutes after being put in her crib (she is a totally independent sleeper). But now she seems to be taking longer to fall asleep, she will usually silently play with her bear or blanket. The only reason I know she's still not sleeping is because I have a video monitor, which I know can be a blessing and a curse. Also, in the am when she wakes she is silent and will play silently for as long as necessary until I come at get her at our 7:30 am wake-up time. She will play happily for an hour or more. SO unless I happen to wake-up before 7:30 and see her on the monitor, I don't know exactly when she woke up. Our routine yesterday was:

8:00 am: woke her up (let her sleep in a bit because she got to bed late due to her party)
10:25: put down for nap (this is her usual time with a 7/7:30 wake-up)
10:35: asleep
11:00: woke her up
1:30: put down for nap
1:40: asleep
4:00: woke her
7:15: bed
7:20ish: asleep

Today:
6:55: turned on monitor & she was silently playing, got her up at 7:30
10:25: put down for nap
10:35ish: asleep
11:00: planning to wake her

I appreciate any feedback and suggestions. Thanks!!!!

Shannon

[Tor]

Hi

Looks to me like you have a great routine, why change anything? Lucky you with such good bedtimes and great wake up times, sounds like a text book baby, lucky you!!!


Tor

[NiknLily]

OMG

Friday no naps, Saturday 50Min's-1hr, sunday 1hr 15Min's, woke up Monday morning at 4.30am wouldn't go down for nap until 10.45am   slept till 1pm   then ed about at bedtime and was still way overtired by time she fell asleep.  So we have EW, NW, refusing naps, trying to hold of going to bed with constant demands for juice and telling me she needs to go poop.  When all this fails she is just screaming and I mean really angry I'm not getting my own way toddler type screams.  Mummy is also doing a fair bit of screaming as I think if I didn't I would explode.  Only thing settling her down is by me holding a hand on her and generally then she almost immediately falls asleep.  BUT if I lay her down and put a hand on her straight away she just lays there playing with her lovie and making annoying noises with her mouth and eventually rolls over to try to engage me.  At this present moment in time I have absolutely no patience with her at all at sleep time and standing there touching her while she doesn't go to sleep is just making my blood boil.

So what do you think is it SA, it really does seem to be only at nap & bedtimes or is it just because she is so overtired at present and how the hell do I deal with it, plus if anyone has a clue what do I do with her routine because its just not working at all.  

Today typical example
6am wake
10.50 in cot (actually went to sleep quite well today within about 5Min's. I explained that I would stay in the room while she went to sleep and laid on floor, she seemed OK with this, this also worked yesterday but only after over 6hrs A time and 1 failed attempt to get her down for nap at 9am)
12.10 woke up (was miserable all afternoon)
4pm tried for catnap (didn't even get her into cot)
5.10pm bedtime (I sat on floor and she screamed at me for 30Min's, I kept laying her down she kept popping straight back up, until I held hand on her then passed out like light)

So apart from possible SA my problem is she is sooooooooo OT its untrue and just will not take 2 naps and 1 nap is always coming up 1hr 15.  What the f**k do I do with her, I really am at my wits end  

[irish3680]

Hi Tor,

I hear what you're saying. My concern is that Ella has always had the tendency to rob night sleep for naps, but when her night sleep dips below 11.5 hours she wakes in the am not completely rested and then wants to nap more and the cycle continues. She has always been on the higher end of sleep needs. I am always so worried about her getting OT and get scared to wake her from a nap or extend A times. I really think she needs more A time before bed and that I have to wake her earlier from pm nap. She did fine with 3 hours A time after a 45 minute am nap, so I'm assuming she needs more than that before bed especially after a 2 hour nap. I'm just a chicken 

Shannon

[MommaHolmes]

Awww New Mum, it sounds like you're having a proper nightmare 

I'm no expert, and I'm sure everyone will have their own opinions on this, but I think she is massively OT and it's possible that your presence in the room is interfering with her settling herself to sleep.

Thing is, I'm not really a believer in SA when our LOs are this age - do you really think that she is anxious that you will not come back if you leave the room? I know lots of other mums swear that this is the problem but I think the munchkins are very switched on at this age and very good at (for want of a better word) manipulating us. If she doesn't display any SA behaviour at any other time then could it be that she's finding getting to sleep difficult and stressful (because of the OT) so would rather interact with you instead?
It might be that adopting a WI/WO approach gives you the breathing space that you need too.

Don't forget, she's also catching up from a very difficult couple of days with no naps, but her naps are getting longer so possibly the EW and NW will start to settle too if you persist with the early bedtime. Just hang in there, it WILL get better

We seem to have finally found a pattern that we/he can cope with - I'm sticking to clock times rather than A times, which seems to have improved time taken to fall asleep at bedtime massively (30 mins rather than up to 2 hours!). So we're doing 11am lunch, 11:45ish down for nap and asleep within 5 mins (used to be average 20), then dinner at 4pm, bedtime ritual starts at 5pm, in bed by 5:30, usually asleep by 6. I'm doing this WHATEVER time he wakes up in the morning and it seems to be working (probably ruined it by saying that!). Wake up is still generally earlier than I would like, but we are getting some 12hr nights now when we were averaging 10.5 and had even gone as low as 9. The longer A times in the morning have meant a shorter A time in the afternoon and that seems to be what he needs. We've even had some longer naps (were averaging 1hr 15 too for a while, but have had a couple around 2 hours which is unheard of in this house!) with longer morning A times.

I really hope things settle down for you - looking back over my... 8 weeks (!) of observation of our LO, the really rubbish periods don't tend to last very long, you are probably heading for a couple of good days VERY soon.

Worst comes to the worst, plan yourself a night out and give yourself a break thinking about it.
Laura x

[NiknLily]

Thanks MommaHolmes

I don't really think its SA either I just couldn't think what else it could be, other than what you said about them being very 'clued up' at this age, particularly in light of the fact that she is using other techniques to put off bed/naps by asking for drink/juice anything...  I was using wi/pd/wo when she has trouble settling or wakes up, as she doesn't seem to lay back down once up on her own, not that she cant, she just doesn't  I will have a read up and maybe give it a try tomorrow.  Its just strange that she will work herself up into a frenzy and wont quit it, the girl has always had staying power when it comes to not sleeping, but as soon as I lay my hand on her she just passes out within minutes.

I just need her to sleep longer than 1hr 15mins at lunch time as 4-4.5hrs is her max A time after that length sleep which at present is putting bedtime at 4.30, which I just simply cant do and really dont think I should as I'm worried she will just wake even earlier next day starving hungry from dinner being so early day before.

Anyone else have any more help, I will take all I can get

[debo620]

new mum, I don't think she is handling one nap all that well. I think you just need to find the right times to make 2 naps work for a little while. at least until she is over this overtired stage
At the age of 18months, we are still having some OT weeks nd honestly, Noah will take a 10min am nap, this works great for us just to get through to a 2hr nap at noon time.

so if she wakes at 6am, woule she nap at 10am?

maybe wake 6
nap 10----for 20min
next nap 12:30-2:15/2:30
bed 6:30

if she refuses a nap at 10
how about:
nap 10:30 for 15min
next nap 12:15-2:15
bed 6:30