anyone want to chat about the 2-1 nap switch , thread#2

[sorayas mom]

Thank you ladies for your advice!! I got rather discouraged over the past few days and your advice was very helpful.  What happened was, on Friday as I said in my last post dd refused the pm nap, so I had her asleep in bed by 6.  Her night wakings were horrible as she woke up 6 times and was ready to start the day at 5:45 am!  So I thought she would be good and ready to nap yesterday, but couldn't settle for either nap due to OT and ended up taking only two 40 minute OT naps, and I just could not get her back to sleep. So it was asleep by 6 pm again.  For both naps and bed time I had to hold her down and pat her to sleep as she just was so OT!  So she had about 6 nwings again last night but did manage to sleep until 6:30 am, so that was helpful.  So I got her in bed early for the am nap hoping she would be rested enough to take a long am nap to get her back on track.  Well, it took 40 minutes and me holding her down and patting her to sleep again!  She is still asleep right now so we'll see how long she sleeps.  If she wakes at 40 minutes I will even try rocking her to sleep just to get her back on track again but hopefully she can get through it this morning. 

Newmum- I really appreciate your advice on how to preserve the am nap and go for a pm nap.  That tactic is definitely more apt to work for my dd.  I just don't think the shortening of am nap will work for her.  Yesterday after her 40 minute am nap I put her down after 2 hours of A time and she still couldn't fall asleep and took only a 40 minute nap.  I will try your idea of getting her back up and see how that goes.  If she does get to sleep a bit later like that, what if I allow her to take a full nap in the pm but just push bedtime back?  Would that work?  Or do I need to preserve a long nighttime sleep and just do a catnap?  I can see how that would make the 2-1 transition a bit easier.

Thanks again!  You've brightened my day!

[M and N's Mom]

I need some help again ladies    Are there any "old pros" still hanging around this board?

We have finally made it to 1 nap most days, but the nap is too short.  Here is the last 24h routine:

1h nap yesterday
In bed at 6:10 (not asleep until 6:40)
Woke at 7:20 am so 12h 40 mins

Asleep at 12:00 but awake at 1:15 today.  That sounds like OT but how can it be

I have been doing about 4.5h before nap and 4-4.5h after nap (depending on how long the nap is).

There is nothing I can do to extend his naps...haven't been able to since before 1 yo.

Does something need tweaking in his new routine or what am I missing?

TIA.

[debo620]

M and N's mom, do you think his total sleep needs have dropped? the only thing I can think of is that a 12hr+ night doesn't leave much room for a decent nap.
maybe you will need to cut the night to 11.5hrs and hope for a 2hr nap.
the other thing to consider is that 4.5hrs is too short of an A time,maybe try 5hrs instead. I know 1hr 15min naps can be not tired enough aswell.

we are still really struggling at the moment, I think because sleep needs are dropping here aswell. Noah at the age of 11months was only sleeping like 13hrs total, so I'm not sure if at 20months if 13hrs is still a realistic goal.
yeserdays naps was only 1hr40min, seemed tired all afternoon, so I tried 20min earlier to bed (6:40)and he didn't fall alseep to normal time of 7:30,
slept til 6:30am,
in bed for 11:45---has just taked for 15min, so I hope that is not a sign of OT/wound up. aaargh!

[M and N's Mom]

Thanks Deb.  Sorry you are still having trouble with OT...they are such a mystery aren't they.

I don't think we are ready for 5h since we have only been on 1 nap for a week (with 2, 2 nap days thrown in because of EW).  I do think I am expecting too much with more than 12h at night and 2 at night.  My IDEAL routine would be:

7:00 wake
2h nap
7:30 bedtime

But, I keep putting him to bed earlier (6:00) because of the short nap and I don't want him to get OT but then I'm sure he is getting more than he needs at night.  It is a vicious circle.

Sari

[NiknLily]

Sorayas Mom - Glad I could help  With regard to helping her catch up on sleep while going through this don't worry about any amount of accidental parenting.  Just do what you have to to get her to sleep, any AP can be fixed quite easily once she gets back on track with her sleep.

With regard to night sleep, I would try to aim for letting her have at least 11.5hrs sleep at night, don't compromise this by letting her sleep too long for that pm nap, keep it as a catnap when she wont settle till later in afternoon than normal. The length of catnap will depend entirely on when she fell asleep and how long you have left till a suitable bedtime, no more than 12.5hrs after she woke in the morning.

[NiknLily]

MommRocco - Hi sorry things still haven't settled for you.  I think its time you just took the plunge and went for 1 nap, there is only so long you can battle with this and IMO the longer you do the more OT they can become.  So I would start by putting him down 5hrs after wake up every day then give 5hrs after nap before bed time.  You will get some days where he will only take 45Min's to 1hr naps to start with as he is still OT and will take time to catch up, you will also get some days where he takes the dreaded 1.15hr OT naps, but you should start to see an improvement very soon.  As he settles into his new routine he will be less confused about what is going on and will start to nap well again, I promise.  He is certainly not to young as he is just a little younger than Lily and we swapped to 1 nap at just over 15months.

Definitely give a substantial snack to ensure he doesn't wake through hunger then give him lunch after nap.  Or rather than think of it as a snack give 1/2 lunch before nap 1/2 after.  Once he settles down you can then start to try to extend the am A time upto 5.5hrs.  If you find that his day has shifted earlier as a result of the transition, it is possible to shift it back where you want it to be.  If and when you need to do this I can tell you how I did it, we went from anytime after 5am wake up and 5pm bedtime to 7am wake up and 7pm bedtime and it was actually pretty EASY 

Just to reassure you I found Lily was less of a cranky pants even when tired once I had fixed her routine onto 1 nap, after all its the premise that the whole EASY routine works on that a baby/toddler that knows whats coming next in his day is a happy baby/toddler and it it soooo true 

[NiknLily]

MommaHolmes - Lovely to hear from you.  It is sooooo nice to be back in the land of the living, I can tell you! 

Glad things are going well for you, like you say a little OT at the mo is to be expected for Ollie.  What a change to his life, new baby sister, daddy home all day every day, got to be so exciting and a little confusing for him.  I'd say his bedtime struggles are just because there is so much going on hes having a hard time switching off at bedtime.  You've probably already done it but have you tried extending his wind down considerably and I don't know if its possible with new LO, but if it was just Ollie & mummy time that too might help. Either way I'm sure he will settle down once daddy is back to work and you get back into 'normality' 

[sorayas mom]

Well,  yesterday was a disaster!  She took a 1 hour am nap and a 40 minute pm nap.  Fought both of them all the way.  Was in bed before 6 but didn't fall asleep until 7.  Had several nwings and then woke up at 5:30 am!  So, I tried for 30 minutes to get her back to sleep in her crib, didn't work. I gave up and went back to bed.  She started really crying, which is unlike her so I knew she was still really tired so finally I went and got her and brought her back to bed with us (haven't done that since she was a few months old!!) Finally got her back to sleep and she slept for another 1.75 hours!  So I think that really helped to catch her up on sleep.  So since the day started so late, I am thinking of trying one nap with an early bedtime.  I was thinking in bed around 11:15, hopefully asleep by 11:30, then an early bedtime depending on when she wakes.  What do you think??

I know many do a very gradual transition, but nothing seems to be working for her and she is fighting sleep like no other!  And surprisingly, she isn't very cranky at all!  I just know she is OT from her sleeping behavior.  Would there be any harm in trying to go to one nap and offering two nap days when she seem extra sleepy?  Would she be better off just adjusting to the switch?  What seem so be the pattern is she naps really well for a few days, so she is all rested up, so she then decides to skip an afternoon nap, so we fight OT for days, get her back on track, have a few good napping days then once she is all rested up she skips the pm nap again!  What is the point in doing this over and over??

Thanks for the help!  I really need it at the moment!!

[sorayas mom]

Ok, I don't think things could get any worse 

All these suggestions and schedule sure sound like a good idea but they aren't possible if I can't even get her to sleep!  I put her down exactly 3 hours after she woke up this morning and after 40 minutes finally got her to sleep by patting her and then she woke up 20 minutes later!  What was that!?  I don't even know what that means as she has never done that!  And I tried and tried but could not get her back to sleep.  Now what!?  I am at a complete loss right now and just want to give up 

[debo620]

I say get her back to bed and asleep by 2hrs after she woke from 20min nap.

[NiknLily]

HUGS to you, its a horrible transition and I cant imagine going through it with one so young.
I agree with what deb said about getting her back down within 2hrs if she does that again. She is very young for just 1 nap with the odd 2 nap day, plus once they get used to 1 nap they can just refuse to take 2 naps at all and I think at this young age you don't want to drop the 2nd nap completely. 

You may find that you need to extend her morning A time as she just might not be tired enough after 3hrs on a good nights sleep.  The other thing that can help if you struggle to get her to sleep in the am is to get her up for maybe 30Min's, may need even less then try again.  Sometimes they fight too hard and too long and fight straight past the point at which they could of gone to sleep ending up OT.  They don't always get cranky when OT, not until they are really OT, some just get a second wind and seem happy as a sand boy, which can be very confusing to read.  If you can find the right A time for her in the am to get a good nap out of her you may just need to do a 20min or 15min catnap in the pm to get her through till bed time.

If you want you can try to pre-empt her skipping the pm nap every so often by offering just 1 nap every so often, maybe 1 a week, just to keep the balance set at 2 naps so she doesn't get used to taking 1 nap completely.

Once again, HUGS to you, I know how awful this transition is but be prepared that this could go on for several months before you come out the other end.  IMO at her age it's worth fighting to keep the 2 naps as long as possible.

[Ydnic]

Soraya's mom - hugs to you!  This transition is stinky, I know.  We're still trying to figure the ideal schedule out here.  Hang in there!

Cindy

[MomofRocco]

Well, I just finished inserting my foot into my mouth.  lol....  Rocco was awake at 745, asleep at 1245 and up at 2.  I am assuming this is the 1.15 OT nap right?  What does that mean?  So, do I not wait 5 hours tomorrow, or keep pushing for 5?

[Ydnic]

MomofRocco, it takes a little time for naps to lengthen.  Give it some time, as long as you offer the early bedtime, he should be able to make up for sleep he didn't get during the day.  Soon, you should be able to see the nap lengthen.

At our house, we were well on our way to a good long PM nap...then ds got a cold.     We actually had one day where he didn't nap at all!    I offered a nap several times that day, but he just got upset because he kept coughing when I laid him down.  So, it seems like we're starting over.  He only slept an hour and 15 mins today and he's in bed early.  I'll take the hour and 15 min nap over no nap anyday though!

Maybe I'm overthinking this, BUT, one of the reasons for a short nap today might have been a long car ride.  He wasn't able to get out as much energy as he needed to.  What do you think everyone?  Am I overthinking or have you experienced this?

Cindy

[sorayas mom]

Thanks again for your help and encouragement ladies!  I will try your suggestions NewMum once she gets back on track.  After her 20 minute am nap, I had her down in two hours and she started really crying after 30 minutes, so I ended up putting her in my sling and she slept for an hour.  Then I had her in bed early at 6:15 but it took about an hour for her to fall asleep.  So I'm hoping for a 6:30 waking tomorrow to get back on track, but I'm not holding my breath.