anyone want to chat about the 2-1 nap switch , thread#2

[lena]

New mum,
I actually tried to shorten his first nap to 20 min but he just didin't wanna go to bed for his second nap until it was 4 hours in between.I feel that I will just go cold turkey and will let him have only one nap a day,and put him to bed earlier!!!!!!

[tmhill]

Ok-
my son is almost 16 months old.  (oct 1st).  He was nicely taking two naps until he started a new day care and had trouble sleeping there.  He usually just sleeps one short nap at day care.  This past week he has pretty much gone down to one nap at home (if he takes two - it usually takes him 45 min to an hour to fall asleep - but falls aleep immediately if I push him until noon for the one nap).  He's typically getting really tired at 6:15/6:30 pm.  That is when he is going to bed.  Last night he stayed up until 7:00pm.  He's been waking up pretty early in the morning though.  This morning I heard him at 5:40 (I thinmk he went back to sleep, he got quiet) but was up again at 6:20.  Is this typical?  His one nap is bewteen 1.5 to 2.5 hours around about noon or 12:30.  Can I expect him to go to a 7:00 am wake up once he gets used to the new schedule?  Does he wake up so early because he's over tired?  Even when he wakes up this early I can't get him to take an early and late nap.  I have tried to put him down later for the 1st nap and then wake him up after 30 - 45 min (or an hour) - but that really isn't helpful either.  He usually is VERY grouchy after that and still has a hard time going back to sleep for the afternoon nap.  I really loved the two naps still, but I guess he's getting to be a big boy now, and I should just get used to the one nap - maybe it'll get a bit longer!
Let me know any thoughts or suggestions that you have.
Thanks
Kara

[NiknLily]

stheo - Hi, I would try to hang onto 2 naps as long as possible at this young age.  If you want to maintain long am nap then I would try to cut pm catnap.  In theory if you give a 30min catnap she will need 3-3.5hrs before bed, 20min catnap should need 2-2.5hrs before bed, 15min 1.5-2hrs before bed.  I would try this and see how you go.  It may work or you may need to swap and do catnap in morning with long nap in pm.

[NiknLily]

lena - If that the way you feel you need to go then go for it, you know your LO better than anyone so your best judge.  You may find it helpful to try to offer 2 naps every so many days just to try to combat OT creeping in.  If your going to totally go for it Follow Tracy's advice on how to move from 2 naps to 1 by slowly pushing am nap forward 15Min's every 2-3days, offering a late catnap if he will take one or early nights if not until nap is where you want it at midday.

tmhill - I would say at 16months you should do fine switching to 1 nap.  In fact 1.5 - 2.5hr naps are great, you are right they will slowly get longer as he gets used to new routine.  He could be waking early due to OT, its fairly common that LO's start waking early during this transition until things settle down, or it could be that he is getting all the night sleep he wants and the early bedtime's are keeping the wake ups early.  Some times LO's will shift back to normal wake up/bedtimes on there own when dust settles, others like my DD needed a nudge in right direction.  What I did was move her whole day on by 10Min's a day every day until bedtime was back at 7pm, we started with wake ups anytime after 5am and bedtime was 5-5.30pm.  When you do this the morning A time does need to be stretched by 10Min's and all his meals need moving up by 10Min's too, and so does bedtime.  I did this everyday and was surprised how easily DD day shifted back to 7am-7pm

[newmaze]

HI!  i am coming in search of help.  I have read the FAQ's, search the threads, but there is not a lot of help on this 2-1 switch.  There is this thread, but i have to admit, it is very daunting to read (all of it)!! 

I started my daughter on 1 nap last week.  A few days, she took 1.5 hr naps, but most days, it is 45 mins.  The problem is, by the time she gets up (say 1:15 or so, she can lay in the crib for a bit), it is too late to have another nap that day, so we were doing early(ier) bedtimes.  Well, last night we had our first NW in a REALLY long time (probably 13 months - no daggers pls!!).  She is sleeping now, but I know this nap, too, will be dreadfully short.  What do you do to get that nap longer?  We are past extending.  Once she sees me, she is up!  Does this eventually sort itself out?  What are good "A" times right now for a 16.5month old?? I feel so lost on this subject - this is the one subject where I think they need an entire "section" on the sleep board!!!

THANK YOU!!
jen

[debo620]

yup, this is pretty much the section.

I would say 5-5hrs of A time on one nap, the nap hopefully 1.5-2hrs, and the nights 11-11.5hrs.
how much is she sleeping over night? this can take away from day sleep. a short nap can also happen if it is offered too late.
if you want, go ahead and post your day.

[newmaze]

Thank you!

Well, last night is not the norm.  I put her down SUPER early to try to combat this OT the switch is causing.  I put her to bed at 6:45, asleep by 7, and slept until 8am!!  13 hours!!  WOW.  But.... usual day/night is:

Crib 7:15/7:30, asleep usually 20 mins later (no later than
Awake 7-7:15am (so usually 11 or 11.5 hours of nighttime sleep).

I have been shooting for lunch around 11:30.  Laying her down in the crib around 12/12:15.
It has only been a week (today is the 8th day).  Few days were 1.5hrs, but then started the 45min and no getting back to sleep naps. 

My question is - I am putting her down on time?  It is usually about 5 hours from wake.  Too late?  How long does it take to kick in for that longer nap?  A few weeks, a month?  She has been on the same schedule since 5 months, so a YEAR is a long time to just change, right....  She used to do 9:30/10am nap, and again at 2:30/3.  She started to take really short crappy naps, or would fight one of them.  She has the ability to just relax in her crib, though, I should tell you that.  So, I would let her stay in there for a bit to just relax... This switch STINKS!!!!

[newmaze]

can I cry?  She is already up.  45 min nap.  It is 1:15.  What do you do?? Just do another early bedtime?  She won't take a catnap... I know.....

[M and N's Mom]

Newmaze...maybe try having her in bed at 4.5h A time instead of 5h until she gets used to the 1 nap and then gradually push it back after she is doing well at 4.5h.

We have been doing 6:00 bedtimes  as our DS gets used to the 1 nap thing too.

[NiknLily]

newmaze, I agree try 4.5hrs A time, if this fails to improve things over maybe 3 days I would guess that maybe her clock has got stuck at 45Min's, this happened with my DD (in fact we seem to have gone through the entire scenario, every angle, while going through this transition  )  What I did when I plucked up the courage to try, was do 'wake to sleep' it took just 2 days and she started sleeping 1.5hrs, she will frequently wake at 45min mark but will go back to sleep with a little persuasion now, so I'm confident that in time she will get back into habit of doing 1.5hrs straight through.

[sorayas mom]

Hello ladies, I'm back from holiday so I thought I would offer a quick update.  The short am/long pm nap only worked that one day     So, while on holiday I could tell she was getting on the verge of OT, so I just  let her sleep as long as she wanted and she started taking long am naps and decent pm naps! I know she was just really tired from all of the activity, but since she is back in the habit of long am naps, I think I am going to stick with long am naps and give some more A time before her short pm nap.  I learned while away, that she will go to sleep fairly quickly if she is tired enough.  So, here is what I tried today:

7:05- wake (she rarely sleeps this late!  Got 11.5 hours sleep)
10:35- put in crib
10:45- sleep
11:50- wake
3:10- put in crib (increased to 3h 20 m, I could tell she was getting sleepy)
4:00- wake (she is still asleep as I write this but I doubt she takes over a 40m nap
7:30- planned bed time (i think she will start sleeping a bit later in the am if I make bedtime 7:30 instead of 7)

How does this sound?  Any suggestions?  It will be about 3.5 hours A time between each sleep.

Thanks!!!

[NiknLily]

Sorayas mom, that sounds great, from memory I think it is something like Lily was doing at that age.   

[sorayas mom]

Well...I should've known that nothing works for more than a day    I am just at my wits end here.  I keep trying things that "should" work then when she won't sleep when she is "supposed to" I get real mad and frustrated with her, when she has no idea she is doing something wrong!  I just don't like how upset and frustrated I get with her, when she doesn't nap it ends up ruining my day 

So today here is what happened:
7- awake
10:35- sleep
11:15- wake, got her back to sleep in sling
12:40- wake!  real nice nap!
3:30-4:30- tried in every way possible to get her to nap
4:30- 5:00- even tried a long walk...but no sleep
6- in crib
6:10- sleep

I think I may try to push it back to 11 tomorrow to sleep if she will sleep the whole nap without waking...I know she will do it when she is tired, because she did it on holiday.  I guess we'll see what time she wake tomorrow though...

[NiknLily]

HUGS Sorayas mum, I know just how your feeling.  It is so frustrating and I too am guilty of getting very angry and then upset then guilty when Lily doesn't sleep well.  So take heart your not alone on that one I have felt like the worlds crappest mum ever so often during the transtition. 

I would say that that super long nap left her so rested that she just couldn't sleep anymore that day until it was too late in the day for even the shortest nap.  I would suggest before giving up completely try limiting the morning nap to 1.5hrs and see if that helps.  If all else fails and you really cant take anymore then even tho she is so young I would suggest going for 1 nap and super early bedtimes to compensate.  I would start pushing her am A time on by 10-15Min's every 3 days or so until you reach her max A time that she can cope with.  I really hope you can keep getting 2 naps for a while longer, just because she is so young but if she just wont take them consistently you have no choice.  Of course the other thing you can try is to alternate between 1 and 2 nap days, theory being that 1 nap day will leave her tired enough to sleep 2 naps the next day.

HUGS again, don't beat yourself up to much, your a brilliant mum trying to do whats best for her little girl 

[amy123]

Sorayas mum - <<HUGS>> and hang in there!  I remember my first going through the 2-1 nap transition, and even now with my little girl just starting it, I get so frustrated and end up demoralized and drained at the end of the day!  Ikwym about feeling like her not napping ends up ruining the day.  I always have to keep reminding myself that I need to change my expectations for the next few weeks (or even couple of months!) and build in some time for myself in any other way I can. 

Remember that if she doesn't go to sleep, you're not doing anything wrong!  Have a plan you're going to try, then have a back up plan if the original doesn't work. 

For example, here's what I think we're going to do with Ava (who's just a week or so older than your little one)...  Offer a.m. nap about 3 hrs. after wake time (watching sleep cues, too).  If she goes to sleep, let her sleep 45 min. - 1 hr. then wake and offer p.m. nap 3 hrs later (again, watching cues and being flexible.)  If she refuses the a.m. nap, I'll keep her up another hour or so and then offer it again.  If she takes a BIG nap (like 2 hrs), then will not offer a p.m. nap but will do an early bedtime (like 6 or 6:30 depending on cues).  If she naps short, then I'll offer a late p.m. catnap followed by regular bedtime.

Hope that helps a little! 
Amy