What is an appropriate bedtime for a 3mth old? Is 6:30p.m too early?

[KLT001]

We struggle to keep my bub awake in the evening and she has been going to bed around 6:30p.m, however she often wakes around 5:45a.m or 6am to start her day, which is too early for me! Do you think if I put her down say half an hour later this will improve the time she awakes? Should I start it in 15min increments to encourage a later waketime? She wakes once at about 2/3a.m for a feed as she has not fed since 6:00p.m. Any suggestions? We are reluctant to do the dreamfeed at 10:00pm as this is when she solidly sleeps and the morning hours she seems to fuss.

[Layla]

What does the rest of her day look like? Some babies naturally wake up at 6am - thats their biorthym. If you start pushing for a later bedtime it might get her overtired. You could though start with the morning nap (add 5mins to her A time) & with it the bedtime....

[KLT001]

Its been very tricky because the pattern is that she has an afternoon nap around 3:30p.m and if this nap is a catnap she awakes around 4:30p.m and thinks she is ready to feed from her last feed but she has woken to early??? Its difficult to say her exact day as we arent in a strict routine as such yet but im thinking that if I give her a top-up feed at around 7:00a.m, this will get her through her day better? Who knows. So far she is feeding (bottle-fed)

 6:00a.m, 10:00a.m, 2p.m, 5:30p.m and by her last feed she is super tired so goes to bed around 6:15p.m now??? Im worried that this little pattern she has developed is getting earlier and earlier everytime. She still does a early morning feed at around 2:00am, however she can sometimes sleep right through this.

Im thinking if I top her up at say 7a.m to start her day on a full tummy then all the rest of the feeds will be later and allowing her sleep patterns to fall into place as well? Cant hurt but try I guess.

I dont like to go by the clock strictly as per the E.A.S.Y program, however I also dont want her to be going to bed at say 5:30p.m soon.

[Layla]

No it doesn't hurt trying. If the last nap is ending at 4:30pm though then its expected for her to be tired for the night at 6ish. Any way you could add some more A time to her naps so that the catnap is pushed to 4:30pm? How many naps is she taking at the moment?

[KLT001]

She is taking a short nap early morning because she rises at 5:30a.m!!! and feeds at 6a.m. Then she has a lunchtime nap followed by the last catnap which is early due to her early rising? It seems to be her early rising that poses the prob?? She therefore has three naps, only one is generally considered a good nap of 1hr or more.

[Layla]

At 3 months she should be taking 3 (if not 4) naps. The early wake ups don't cause her to sleep 3 times a day but they may cause her to take those naps earlier in the day. So this is what I was saying before, you could start by adding 10mins to her naps so that her bedtime is pushed to a later hour. She needs to have 3 naps because her A times should not be longer than 1hr 30mins. If she has only had a short 45min nap, she should not be staying up for 1hr 30mins though. She could be going through 45min naps developmentally or her taking short naps could be that she needs more A time. How long is she up for between naps? Do you want to fix her naps or are you happy the way things are going (other than the wake up hour)

[KLT001]

No im not entirely happy with her naps as Id prefer at least two solid naps in a day, 2hrs would be perfect but not more than her feeding time. Id prefer her to catnap on the last nap so that it is just a re-charge until bedtime, so 4:30p.m would be perfect if it works out that way. She generally stays up no more than 2hrs and often doesnt even get to that, she generally has waketime of 1hr30min or before if I notice tired signs. Some Tizzie program recommended to keep her up the full two hours so she sleeps better, but that worked against her because she didnt sleep longer and took longer to settle. I assumed she was overtired.

I think I need to sit down and make a rough estimate at her nap times throughout the day, even if it ranges within an hour or so and really see where Id need to be putting her down for a nap inorder for her to go to bed a little later.

Speaking of which, I woke at 3:00a.m (used to it) and decided to dreamfeed her then and she awoke 6:30a.m and talked to herself until 7a.m. I thought this was great as I usually do an early feed in the morning anyway but she didnt wake this time. She didnt drink the 7am bottle though, so she really wasnt all that hungry. (bugga).

Maybe things might smooth out at 4months as I heard they still havent developed body clocks as such until then? What do you think? Ill just keep trying.

[Layla]

2hrs is a very long time for her age. Not sure about Tizzie (never heard of it to be honest . It would be a good idea to keep a track of how she does during the day with naps etc... Her A time should be around 1hr20-30mins, the morning A time is usually shorter than that, so if she's tired say 1hr into the morning, put her down & she should take a longer nap. If she wakes earlier, you might want to do shh/pat to extend that nap. The av is 3 naps or 4 naps. Tow long naps & catnap or 3 long naps & catnap or 2 long naps & 2 catnaps. Her internal clock is still maturing & naps only start to organise around 5-6 months but thats not to say you shouldn't try.

As I mentioned before, some babies are 45-min nappers. NOthing you do will extend their naps. If thats the case, you should put her down earlier than 1hr30mins. She might then take 4 short naps & you'll have to try & fit feeds in every 3.5hrs. It might not be true EASY & she might need a feed just before a nap, so in that case you just have to go with the flow & try not to let her fall alseep at the bottle. Keep the bedtime what it is now - I know 6am is early, but its not ridiculously early & the wake up time will regurlise as well once her naps are better.

hth
Layla

[KLT001]

Thanks for your advice. I now have a new problem, which is that she wont nap outside the house!! I basically cant go out because she wont sleep in the pram and once she has reached that tired point she basically gets really angry and starts to become overtired.  :-[I have just begun a mothers group and she basically cried the entire time hysterically because she was soooooo tired. I feel I cant stay at home for years or Ill will go completely insane and im wondering if leaving her at home whilst I go out with her nanna is doing her any justice either. She needs to somehow see the world? Do you think its just a matter of waiting until her waketime becomes longer? I have definately been given a tricky baby! Im too scared to have baby number two ever!!!

[Layla]

No, you haven't been given a difficult baby. Alot of babies find things too stimulating, they get overtired easily & the lights, all the noises & faces can get them hyped up. Certainly as she gets older her A times will increase & she will be able to take more in. Jasmine was an EXTREMELY sensitive baby. She used to go from happy to VERY unhappy baby in a matter of minutes. She had a very small window & then it was spending very long time winding her down. One thing that really helped me in the early days (well for the 1st 4 months) was to put her on a sling. I couldn't spend all day at home cause I had a 14mo to take care of as well so it was much more simpler to put her on a sling & the motion of me walking would get her sleeping in NO time!!! I know that means some AP but if its here & there I really don't see a problem with it.

Jasmine was terrible at taking naps in her pram (she hated the pram actually until she was about 5months old). She couldn't stand the car either (I had to sit at the back plenty of times in between 2 baby seats trying to calm her down) or stop the car in the mid of a highway to calm her down & then drive on.

Things will get easier. She's still very young & as she grows, her naps will lengthen, so will her A times & you won't be stuck all day at home. In about 2 months (max), she will be on 3 naps (2 long & catnap), in a few months after that, she will be giving up the catnap. Before you know it, she will be on 1 nap & you won't know what to do with her all day long

Hang in there

[KLT001]

Thanks heaps. Its nice to know Im not the only one in this world with a super sensitive baby. She didnt like the sling at first but that was some time ago and I didnt give her much time in it. I might try it again and see if it works. Maybe I could go for a short walk around the block with it to test it out, that way if it dont work well I could just return home with no fuss.

Is the baby sling the same as a baby bjorn??? I have the baby bjorn and its a bit restrictive but may do the trick. I think my bub needs a couple of tries before she gets to know something as it took a good three/four days before she understood her cot from a bassinet.

Cant hurt to try again hey,

Thanks again for your advice

[Layla]

I am pretty sure the babybjorn is one type of a sling . That was the only one I used. Loved loved loved it!!! Used it with Isabella & Jasmine (although a little longer with Jasmine until I dedicated to sleep training at 4months).

Again, its only for emergencies so in your case if you are out shopping or need to get some things done & its not too much strain on your back, the sling could work wonders.

[mumtolots]

Hi I use a Mei Tai they are great carriers and don't hurt the back like a baby bjorn can. Being a beginner to EASY I can' offer any other advice. Good luck

[PandaBean]

Here's my DD's routine:

~6.00am  awake, bottle
8.00nap
10.00awake, bottle
12.00nap
2.00bottle
4.00nap
5.30 I wake her "wake up, it's time for bed!"
6.30-7.00bottle & bed for the night
10.00-11.00 DF

Now that the nights are getting a bit longer, she's starting to sleep in a bit more, so she's starting to get the 12 hour day thing going on.  My mom keeps trying to get her to stay up later so she'll sleep later, but it never works and she's happy.  (One time we were out until 10pm, Amelia still woke up at 6.00 on the dot!)  I wasn't so happy before I got used to her wake up time.  Now when she sleeps in, I find I feel like I don't have enough time!  Sometimes one has to get used to baby's cycles, especially if baby won't conform to yours!
Her schedule kinda crimps in on my evenings for doing things, but she's usually fairly forgiving if it's only every once in a while.

She also doesn't like sleeping outside her cot.  It takes a lot of work on my part to get her to at least have some quiet time, that's usally enough to get her thru' another bit of time before we can get home.

HTH!

[KLT001]

How old is your bub?

So she manages okay with that morning 2hrs? My DD seems to get tired quickly in the morning because I suspect she is up at 5:30a.m playing in her cot, therefore she has already had 1hr waketime before even getting out of bed. She seems to slip in and out of sleep at that time and doesnt cry. I think she just likes a little time to herself before getting up. She is only 3mths.

I still havent worked out the mornings well yet though because I have only had two successful naps of a morning that went for 2.5hrs, which was great but often she catnaps.

Im sure Ill still be trying to work her out until she doesnt need naps anymore. I dont think Ill ever get it happening??