Nearly 5 months and forgotten how to nap

[Cathy_D]

My DD has been great at sleeping until fairly recently - settles herself to sleep at night and sleeps 7pm till 6 or 7 am with DF at 10pm.  We've never had a very predictable daytime EASY routine as we have to be out at different times on different days and she won't sleep when we are out.  But until a couple of weeks ago she was always fine at sleeping in her cot in the day. (Had a bit of a blip when I think she was getting overstimulated but we now have a pre-nap wind down which used to work fine).

But now she seems to have forgotten how to nap!  First nap is OK, but this seems to be a continuation of her nights sleep - she can only last an hour awake before the 1st nap and then sleeps 1-2 hours.  But the next 2 naps are usually dreadful - even if she is really tired she can't seem to get to sleep.  If I leave her she males the kind of noises she always used to make before going to sleep (more like a cat shouting than actually crying) but if I ignore these, as I have always done, it turns into crying. When I go in to her she usually stops crying if I Shh her for a bit. When she's calm I leave but then the crying starts again a few minutes after.  Sometimes we do a few cycles of this and she sorts herself out. Sometimes she can only get to sleep sucking my finger. Sometimes (like today) it goes on for 2 hours by which time she gets almost hysterical (really angry-sounding crying) at which stage the ONLY thing that works it so feed her to sleep, which i do because by then I want to cry too...

I get really upset and frustrated - partly cos it is horrid to see her upset, wanting to sleep, and unable to. And partly cos we then lose the whole afternoon - all the time we would have doing nice things together goes on pre-nap warfare!

Any reason why she should regress in this way after decent napping in the past (she's nearly 5 months)?  Should I be going in to her when she cries or waiting longer? I don't want to do anything like CIO but I wonder if the distinction I'm making between 'shouting' (where I leave her and she settles herself and I reckon it is part of how she falls asleep ) and 'crying' (where I think she is upset and so go in to her) is wrong - could the crying be part of getting herself to sleep too?

Help!!

[lilsweetie]

i don't really have any suggestions but i was going through the same thing. pretty much word for word what you described. i tried really darkening the bedroom (this seemed to help a little bit). and i did pick up/put down (for up to >1 hour sometimes) but finally my son would fall asleep. the moment i saw his first yawn, I would begin winding down, lying in bed, reading, walking around slowly, relaxing, until naptime rolled around. do you still swaddle? even at 5 months, i find it still helps. or i sometimes hold his limbs from flailing with my hands.

[Cathy_D]

Thanks!  Even if it doesn't actually help, it helps to know we're not the only ones

Funnily enough, I noticed that she did calm down a bit when it went darker at one point today, when it went cloudy (we've got blackout blinds but the sun comes round the edges). On really sunny days like today it is still quite light in her room for daytime sleeps. Might add backout linings to the curtains that are in front of the blind and see if that helps.

I thought it might be too late to swaddle, but suspect it would help - she has reall 'windmill arms' when she gets overtired. So maybe will try that too and see what she makes of it.  And sounds like you do much more winding down than we do so will try spending longer on that too.  In fact, just now, I'd try anything LOL!

Cathy

[Layla]

Can you tell me what time you are attempting naps? What does her day look like?

[Cathy_D]

Unfortunately, no 2 days are the same!  It starts off alright ..

Wakes between 6.15 and 6.45, BF, wash, nappy change, dress
8am - Nap (Even if she wakes at 6.45 she can't get much past 8 before needing a sleep - this is the one predicatable bit of the day!)
Then she either wakes just before 9, or sleeps through till 9.30/10

After that, everything depends on when she last woke. So, if 1st nap finishes at 9, I aim to put her down at 11.  But it she slept till 10 we try to put her down at 12.  Except that if we go out (and I have to to stay sane!) then it can sometimes be more like 2.5 between naps, and if it takes ages to settle her, then more like 3-4 hours awake.  I'm trying to minimise that for the next few weeks, though, and planning much more time at home, in the hope of establishing a more consistent routine and working out what A time is optimal for her, if not interfered with by being out. Anyway, from them on, naps can be anything from 45 mins to 2 hours. But I always aim for her to have no more than 2 hours A time, and then go for the next nap based on that.

She's feeding every 3 or 3.5 hours. So, if the 1st nap is only 45 mins - 1 hour, then she wakes at 9am and doesn't feed till 10am.  From which point, is is all out of sync anyway!  If it take more than half an hour to get her to sleep (after 2 hours awake) then she's 2.5 hours away from the last feed and then seems not to want to sleep because she is starting to get hungry (if she's already asleep by that time, she doesn't wake up to feed, but if she's awake she won't then sleep).  So if she's still awake after 3 hours I end up feeding her again. So then she's not hungry when she wakes.  I know that by now she should probably be on 4 hour EASY but if she can't do more than 2 hours A, and won't sleep 2 hours at every nap (which seems unlikely) then I don't see how we'll ever get there!!

Anyway, we generally start bedtime wind-down (massage, story, prayers etc) at 6pm and she's in bed drowsy by 6.45 and asleep by 7.  If she's had minimal daytime sleep this gets pushed a bit earlier, but is mostly consistent.  So, from 7pm to 8am things run like clockwork but between 9am and 6pm anything can happen.  I guess that's part of the problem.

One small ray of hope, though - she woke at 9am this morning but grumpy and thrashing arms around like she does when she still wants to be asleep. I tried shhing and finger sucking as usual, but got the impression I was hindering more than helping (she kept turning face away from finger). So, removed the finger and sat by the cot and Shh'd whilst she grumbled. Then started to say 'It's OK ... It's OK .. You just need to sleep' and she gradually calmed down, got still, turned head sideways and put thumb in mouth and started to doze.  Left her to it, and 10 minutes later she's fussing again. So, went back, and did the 'Its OK' thing again and she dozed off again, and is still sleeping (20 minutes later). I plan to wake her at 10am, since that is ideally when she'd wake from this nap, so that she next sleep at 12.

So, I wonder if she's just 'outgrown' the ways we used to help her sleep (finger sucking and Shh) and now needs something a bit less invasive (me talking quietly but without touching her)?  Can't think why 'Its OK' works when 'Shh' doesn't, though.  But she definitely wasn't responding to 'Shh' even without the finger.  Or maybe this is just a fluke! Will see what happens with today's remaining naps.
Generally, though, days when she gets 1.5-2 hours in early on seem to go better than ones where she only gets 45 mins-1 hour at her first sleep.

Sorry for lengthy, rambling reply ... am kind of thinking things out for myself as I type!!

Thanks
Cathy

[Layla]

Cathy, firstly I wanted to say that the 1st nap is the 1st to develop & as it is a continuation of night sleep, its the easiest to achieve. Her sleep part of the brain is still developing so the afternoon nap & late afternoon nap (catnap) develop a little later (for some). It all pretty much came together for us around 5.5-6 months. Before that, the morning nap was the best (isn't it always ) & the rest of the day consisted of catnaps with feeds around 3.5hrs apart. Ideally she should be on 4hr easy but it could be that she takes a short nap & you might not be able to extend it, still go on with your day & feed her at the 4hr mark. If she is tired around the same time, let her eat & then have a nap but try not to let her fall asleep at the bottle.

Try adding more A time to her morning nap so that naps are more spread out during the day. Start with 3.5hr EASY & then slowly work towards 4EASY. Slowly add 10mins starting with her morning nap. Do an even longer widnown for the morning nap so that she is not too pooped to sleep. Walk around the room, humm to her while rubbing her back...

I think it would really help with a nice relaxing windonw. Start around 15-20mins before the end of her A time. You might have to spend a few weeks at home around nap times, or if you have to run errards, do so but try & be back in time so that she is not overtired & then it takes you 2hrs to settle her, she gets more overtired, the nap is short, it carries on, etc....

Good idea about darkening the room. Some bubs gets easily stimulated. I had to duct tape the blinds at the edges cause if the room was not dark, Jasmine would be up staring at the ceiling, getting more hyped up rather than sleeping. I also found that I had to take toys, musical toys out of the cot cause those would really stimulate her as well (she is ultra sensitive )

Swaddling - helps some but if you haven't done it before I am not sure how well it would go down with her. Maybe try a gro-bag so she still feels the comfort of being contained but not totally swaddled. Its a great cue but most los fight the swaddle around this age so most mums start weaning around 6 months.

How did she used to go to sleep? Sounds like she is becoming to develop a suck-to-sleep association (your finger in her mouth or the bottle). Does she have a blanket or something else you could give her for comfort?

I find that if you catch them at the right moment & do a nice relaxing windown, they are easier to go down whereas if you miss her window, you could do pu/pd or shh/pat but it will take you alot longer to get her down. Still if she's not going down in say 30mins, pick her up rather than putting a bottle into her mouth & getting frustrated trying to get her to nap, give her a break (& you) & then try again.

Some babies don't respond too well to shh/pat & do find it annoying (sorry I meant not relaxing). If words work then great you could say "its ok, go to sleep....". Also if she's just moaning or fussing then I would leave her to it. She could very well be re-learning how to self settle. Don't get stuck in her room. If she's really crying (one of those "I could do with some help here" cry) then I would go to her. If not then she could just be mantra crying & settling down.

hth & let me know what you think
Layla

[rooser]

We are having the same problem.  My LO has been napping really well for the past month and 1/2 thanks to shush/pat and the Miracle Blanket.  He rolled over back to front last week so I figured it was time to stop swaddling.  I expected a really hard time with this but there was no problem.  It took a little longer than usual for him to fall asleep at his first nap and then a little shorter at the next and then it was like he'd never grown accustomed to swaddling at all.  I was amazed and actually bragged about what a good napper he was.  Before this week I could just put him in his crib, kiss him on the forehead and walk out and he'd fall asleep in 5 - 10 minutes with only the occasional problem.  All of a sudden, the past 4 days now, he just won't nap.  I keep thinking I need to tweak his A time and I am trying but I'm not getting it right.  Shush/pat no longer works, he thinks it's play time.  I'm at my wits end with this crying and no napping.  I know it's probably just a developmental stage and it will pass but what can I do to help him through this?  BTW, he is about the same age, just a week shy of 5 months.

[Cathy_D]

Layla,

Thanks for your many helpful comments.  The rest of today has been much better, too, so I feel much cheerier today about the whole thing - was at the end of my tether yesterday!!

Today looked like:

10am - woke her and went to friends for coffee
10.30 - BF, nappy change etc
11.40 - drove home which wound her down
12.00 - Into cot and straight to sleep with no fussing
1.20 - woke up fussing. Still sleepy really and could probably have down with an extra half-hour but wouldn't go back to sleep (too close to feeding time I think!)
1.45 ish  - BF, nappy change. A bit distracted whilst feeding though so didn't have quite a full feed
3.15  - winding down for nap
3.30 - Put down to sleep but lots of crying. Concluded she was hungry and 'topped her up'
4.00 - Asleep happily
5.00 - Woke her up.
5.15 - BF
6.00 - Massage, clean nappy, BF etc (usual bedtime routine)
6.40 - In cot, asleep, with no crying.

This is MUCH more how I'd like our days to look.  She's been a much happier girl all day as a result, too.

Am really excited at having managed to extend the first morning nap - I suspect that made all the difference to what happened later on.  And I think I'd definitely been underestimating the time it takes her to wind down for naps.

Am tempted to try and stick with this pattern for a while before trying to extend the morning A time or push her to 4 hours.  If we can get this pattern established, for a week or 2 then (hopefully) we can push it around by 10 minutes at a time after that (though, TBH, this pattern as it stands would fit really well with the times of the morning activities we go to - Mums & Toddlers etc) so might just stick with it until the point where it no longer works for her and then rethink. 

Is there a reason why she 'ought' to be on 4 hour EASY at this age, as far as feeding is concerned? She's EBF so is regulating her milk intake herself.

Rooser - so sorry that you're going through this too. Not suprised you're at your wits end. It is so frustrating, isn't it.  Maybe worth trying something else instead of Shh/Pat eg talking softly. I have no idea why talking worked for Anna today where Shh didn't so just maybe there is something that he would find soothing instead of stimulating.  (Am I right in thinking that the rationale for Shh/ Pat is that they can't concentrate on 3 things at the same time, so have to give up crying to concentrate on the Shh and the Pat? If so, and the LO decides to stop crying but wants to play, then I guess Shh/Pat stops having any benefit and becomes stimulating rather than soothing. Just a thought).

Really hope you have a better day soon!

Cathy

[Layla]

Yay - to a good day & that mummy is feeling better!!!

Not all babies are comfortably on 4hr EASY at this age. Jasmine only went to 4hrs at 8 months & she was BF as well. Try 3.5 consistently for 2 weeks & then move onto 4hr.

Keep me posted
Layla