Got to 2 1/2 and it's Sleepless Night City

[stevene]

Our 2 1/2 year old son had got himself off to sleep in his own cot from the age of 12 months, and coped with the transition to a bed with no problems.  We used controlled crying which he got the hang of after 3 nights.
Since we came back from holiday in May it's all gone down hill.
He slept okay on holiday but was ill half way through.  When we came back he would run out off his room after about 30Min's crying.  We put him back and settled him down.  This was okay for a while.  Then he would run out again but would not go back down so we used controlled crying again.  This worked for a short time again.  Then he would shout and scream and even broke down the stair gate and came down stairs.
I put a stair gate on his room and again this worked for a while 'till we would put him down and as soon as he would hear us close the stair gate he would scream the house down, so i took it off.
Tried the gradual withdrawal method which has not really worked at all.  He settles for about an hour and then comes onto the landing.  This carries on all night.  He's even taken to pulling his nappy off in frustration.  He has been toilet trained for 5 months and we only put a nappy on him over night but even this has gone back over and he has started to soil himself during the day which he has hardly done for weeks.
I work shifts so i can't do my bit every night and my wife is becoming exhausted as she works part time also.
We're thinking of putting him to bed and then closing the door.  When he kicks up a fuss we tell him we will leave the door open if he stays in bed if not we close it again.
What do you think?

[Layla]

Hey there & welcome to the site

How do you respond to him when he wakes at night?
Does he still nap? What time is bedtime? Could you give us your daytime shcedule?
Do you have a wind down routine?

Layla

[stevene]

Hi Layla

Thanks for the reply.

When he wakes up at night he comes out of his room to our door.  We get out of bed and put him straight back to bed.  We sit on a chair near to his bed 'till he goes to sleep.  This can take between 5 to 15 Min's.  Last night was not to bad as he woke up at 2140 then 2250 and not again 'till 0250 then 0450.  He then woke at 0600  at which time my wife got up for a shower.  He then tends to play up while she is in the shower and often soils himself.  Today he did manage to keep his nappy on!

He Does nap.  Which 'till recently was for 90Min's.  We have gradually cut this back to 45/60 Min's with a view to cutting it out altogether over the next 2/3 weeks.

He goes to bed at 1930 every night.  It normally takes 30 Min's for him to drop off with one us sat in his room.

His daytime schedule is:

Breakfast: 0715
Play and watch a little t.v
Washed and changed: 0830
Play some more.  No t.v
A walk to park and play 0930 ish depending on the English weather!
Glass of juice with bread stick 1030
Lunch at 1200
Nap at 1300.
Glass of milk with biscuit at 1430
More play time.
Tea at 1700
Little more T.V say 30 Min's. And play.
Bath at 1845.
Story and quiet time 1915.
Bed 1930.

The last few days we have been letting him have a nap in the morning.  He does get a little irritable for around 60 Min's after he wakes.

He does have wind down routine after he gets out of the bath, say 20/30 Min's.

Cheers

Steve.

[Tori's Mom]

Hi Steve,
I also have a 2 1/2 year old and I know they can be a handful!!!!  I just wanted to let you know what I have experienced with my dd and her sleep.  This has been my major job over her life so far, to get her to sleep!
I think your lo is overtired.  Tori is getting anywhere from 13-15 hours of sleep in 24 hours.  I know that when she gets less than 13 hours she is grumpy and does not listen to me at all.  When she is well rested, she is much easier to cooperate!
Here is what we do for our bedtime and naptime.
I start to talk to her about going to bed about 30 min before we even go into the bedroom so she is ready and knows what she is expected to do.  We change her diaper (she isn't potty trained yet.....long story  )  I put on soft music and read a book 2x in the bed with her.  I then give her the book to "read".  I get up, turn off the lights and music and put on the white noise machine.  We then "cuddle snuggle" until the timer goes off.  The timer is me saying "ding".  She knows that when the timer goes off, that is it with Mom.  I then get out of the bed, tell her "I know you may not be tired, but you must stay in your bed and read this book. You don't have to go to sleep but you have to stay in bed."  THis seems to work.  She will read for 15 min and then put herself to sleep.  We have a baby gate in the doorway of her room.  When I first put it up, she DID NOT like it one bit.  She would stand at it and scream.  However, I know she is safe in her room and she is not able to explore the house.  I know at this age, without that gate she would  NEVER sleep!  Anyway, I hope that helps.  If I was you, I would work on extending the nap and not do away with it.  I think he needs a little more sleep than he is getting.  Just my opinion.......Hope that helps.
Jacki

[Layla]

Steve - these are my suggestions:

Nap - Isabella is slightly younger than your lo & she still needs her nap. It did cut down to 1hr15mins for about a week but the extended back to 1.5hrs & she is doing 10.5hrs at night. I don't think she would be ok on 1hr & I definitely don't think she would be ok on NO nap any time soon. Sounds like he is overtired. I don't think you should cut the nap. Most toddlers still nap until they are 3yo & unless his bedtime is pushed to a very late time (like 9.30-10pm) then I am not sure if cutting the nap is a good idea . Are you attempting to cut the nap because bedtime was too late when he was on a longer nap or becuase you think it might improve his night sleep?

I also think that the nap is a little too late if he is up to start the day at 6am. It might be that he used to sleep in later but if he's not able to return back to sleep in the morning, then I would slightly adjust the nap times & bedtime to his wake up hour so that at least he is better rested & not so grumpy during the day. Something like this:

6ish - wakes
12ish - afternoon nap
1.30ish - afternoon nap ends
7pm - bedtime (so that he is alseep by 7.30 the latest)

Him waking up in the morning & doing a poo could be just how his digestive system is. Some people go 1st thing in the morning & some last thing at night, some mid-day.... I am not sure if there is too much you can do about that. You could try to give him some prune juice in the morning so that he has a BM by the end of the day?

I think the bigger issue here is that he required your presence to fall alseep. You said that you stay with him until he is asleep at night & bedtime. What about trying something different.... do you think you could start taking yourself away from the picture so he doesn't have that association. When I was a little baby I NEEDED my mum to stay with me until I was asleep. Nights were a terror for her cause with every awakening she HAD to come out of her room & stay with me until I was asleep. She didn't have the heart to say no & my poor dad ended up on the couch & I took over their bed. It was like that until I was close to 11/12yo . So I think you need to start breaking that association. Maybe you could stay with him until he is nice & drowsy but actually leaving before he is fast asleep. If he's up you could say something like... "mummy/daddy will be back to check in on you soon", "go to sleep" & then actually come back to check on him in about a minute, so you have his trust. With every 3-4 days you could extend that time until he is fully capable on falling asleep on his own.

More like the gradual withdrawal method - https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=63896.0

You could put a baby gate but it might rile him up even more. Does he roam around the house when he wakes or just comes for you?

Don't let him nap in the morning - that would only cause more overtiredness cause he is then awake for a long time before bedtime. Try taking him out of the house in the morning, provide him with lots of physical stimulation & at the same time avoid that "grumpy" phase we all sometimes get in the morning. Then do a nice & long windown, read him books (this is for naps) & try to leave him before he is asleep.


Good luck & let me know how you go
Layla