pls guide on night wakings...6.5month old

[Mama2boys]

Hello all,

My son is just over 6 months, and has been on the EASY routine for about a month now: His routine is as below:
6am   wake-up
   
   milk
   
830am   nap
   
10am   solids
   
11am   milk
   
1230pm   nap
   
2pm   solids
   
3pm   milk
   
430pm   nap
   
530pm   wake-up + solids
   
600pm   milk
   
615pm   massage/bath
   
645pm   top-up milk
   
   sleep
   
10:30 - 12milk

4:30???   milk


he normally takes between 3-5oz for the milk feed after solids and about 5-6 for the only milk feeds. but m,y big probelm is, that he still wake sup for night feeds. he sleeps off by about 7pm and then wakes up anytime between 10:30 and 12:30 for milk drinks about 3-4 oz and then is up at 4/4:30 instead of 6am and will take up to 6oz of milk, sleep for an hour and then be up at 6 again.

I always offer him more milk than he drinks, so don't know how to make sure he drinks more in the daytime, and didn't know what to do wrt the night feedings as I am not sure if they are habit or need, he begs for milk when he seems me prepare the bottle and normall gulps down the night feeds better than even the daytime feeds.

he doe snot really self sooth and I have to give him a pacifier which helps his fall asleep in about 5 minutes and then i take it out, so he normally never sleeps with pacifier and is not awake/playing etc with a pacifier, only give in bed when he is about to fall asleep.

And at 7pm he is so sleepy that I didn't even need to give him a pacifier, he just falls asleep on his own more often than not.

Lastly, he does not nap as long as he should as per the routine above and his naps are now much shorter maybe 1.5 hrs instead of 2 and  1 instead of 1.5.
Please can you guide me on the following:

firstly, what I am doing..is it ok?
1. What to do about his night wakings, I am going crazy as am back to work as well and functioning on about 4hrs of sleep every day ...which is not good for anyone
2. Is using the pacifier the way I am bad? If so, please tell me what to do
3. how do I get him to eat/drink more...he cries in the night unless i feed him, and if I didn't he basically won't fall asleep and whimpers and groans...

Thanks for your guidance.
Mukta

[momofclaire]

Mukta,
When he wakes at 6 am does he eat right away?  Could you estimate how much milk he is getting during the day? 
What have you tried to settle him at night besides food? 
At just over six months I would never give him solids before his milk.  Milk should be his primary nutrition until a year.  If you give him the milk first you may find that he will drink more and then you can rule out true hunger overnight. 
Re paci: Do you use it to help him back to sleep overnight or during naps?
Your routine looks decent.  He should be taking 2 longer naps (1.5-2 hours) and a cat nap (45 min).  As far as I can see you are getting that, right?

[Mama2boys]

Hi,

He wakes up and wnats food straight away and now ha staken to wkaing up at 4:45 wnats milk - cries for it...plays till 6:30 and then sleeps for about an hour or 2.

At time she is not getting his 2 hr nap, and wakes up within 45minutes or an hour.

The pacifier is needed at times to help him fall back to sleep, nap or night its pretty mcuh the same.Including his nighht time milk intake he probably is getting about 20oz of which 12 is during the day.

Thanks for your guidance.
Mukta

[momofclaire]

I think you should try to up his daytime milk intake. 12 during the day is really not enough so he probably is genuinly hungry at night.  Do you think you could try giving him his milk before the solids? I think that will encourage him to take more milk. Although it seems like solids should fill him up more than milk, this is not the case.  The calories in milk far out number those in solids meaning milk stays with him much longer.  Solids can be given at this age but as an introduction and for practice.

Could you try a routine that looks like this.
6:00 wake and eat (solids an hour later)
8:00 nap (1.5 -2 hours)
10:00 eat (solids an hour later)
12:00 nap (1.5- 2 hours)
2:00 wake and eat
4:00 cat nap (30-45 min)
4:30 eat
6:00 eat then windown for bed...in bed by 6:30 at the latest.

I wouldn't give more than 2 servings of solids in one day because it should be a slow introduction.  How long has he been on them?
Does that routine look like something you could do?

[Mama2boys]

Hi,
I could certainly follow that routne, but the doctor aske dme to give him solids first, He started solids when he was just 5 months old on doctors advise, but was not eating properly till he was 6 months old.

He suffered form reflux as a baby and the doctor belives that solid swould make it better and it has, he is much happier and doe snot suffer painful burps like he used to. The situation was so bad that he would literally cry in pain when he burped.

Am confused now..maybe for a week or so will try milk before solids, how mcuh milk shuld a baby of 6-7 months consume. Please do keep in mind, that we are Asian so he is only 25th percentile and not a huge baby, never has been, and probably never will be My husband and I are also not big built, he weights about 7.5kgs so thats about 16/17pounds.

Thanks,
Mukta

[Andrea(aka Jersey)]

Hi Mukta,

I'm lurking because my sitatuation saounds the same as yours. My son weighs 16 pounds and  eats about the smae. I do feed him Milk first then solids but even then he only eats 2-3 ounces at a time except at night when he'll drink 5-6 ounces.


I also don't know what to do about night wakings.

I've tried to get him to have more formual during the day but I haven't been successful.  I've tried eliminating a solids feeding and it doesn't help. I've tried cluster feeding him in the evening and he just won't have any?


Andrea

[EllenS]

Hi, just wanted to jump in here.  My lo is the same age, we 99% bf (so I don't know intake in ounces) and she is doing much the same night-feed pattern.  I tried increasing bf's during the day, we always bf before solids.

I am just going to  start using  a bottle for the 3-4 AM night feed and then start taking away ounces till it is gone and do PUPD if I have to.  It's the only way I can think of to get her to eat more in the daytime.

I saw a post from another mom who did this with her 6.5 mo and had success.

https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=98762.msg969452#msg969452

4th post down, by DBJ

We're starting tonight, so I'll let you know how it goes.

[momofclaire]

If your doc advised solids due to reflux then I would go with that.  He knows your baby much better than I do. I would work on getting his routine to look like the one I posted as I think that will help him from being overtired. That routine also has some clustering before bed which may help to tank him up before bed.

[Mama2boys]

Ellen/Andrea,
Did you guys ahve any luck...now my son has taken to 4:45 wakings! life just seems to be getting that bit harder...rather than easier. and last night he would not evne take any milk at all before bed and did'nt really want any in the mid night wake-up session, just wanted  to be carried around and sleep in my arms.
anyways please do let me know if anything worked for you guys.
Mukta

[Andrea(aka Jersey)]

I had a couple of nights of sucessbut last night sounds like yours. He didn't want to eat and he was wide awake. He would get sleepy in my arms I'd put him down awake he'd be qieut for 20-30 minutes and then wake up whinging again.

Andrea

[momofclaire]

Mutka,
How are your days looking?  Is he getting enough rest?

[EllenS]

Well, we've been doing a lot better with the night wakings, but today she won't nap. We introduced a new food today (mango) and I think it's bothering her.

What seemed to help:

1) 4 hour Easy for 1st cycle, then 3.5 h, then cluster feed before bed (for a total of 5 daytime feeds) i.e. 7am, 11am, 2:30 pm, 4:15 and 5:30, bedtime 6:15

2) A 4oz formula topper at the last feed of the day (we've done this for most of her life)

3) Early bedtime - between 6:15 and 6:30 (helped her sleep later in the am)

We are still on 2 solids meals, 1-2 tbs each.  New foods only in the am.  I'm also watching her closely for foods that make her fussy, we'll re-introduce them after we've finished expanding her palate.

She had been waking for 2 feeds, a "dreamfeed" time plus one in the wee hours.  She has kept the 3-4 am feed, but since that is what she has always done before the 6-month crazies struck, I'm fine with that.  She's back to getting a good 9 or 9.5 hour stretch in the night, then goes back down for 2 hours.

I think the biggest factor was time - she just grew past it.

Hope you all are doing better too.

[Mama2boys]

Hi all,

Glad its going well for you Ellen.

Uday, is on 3 solid meals a day ( 9:30, 1:30, 5:30) of maybe 2 tbsp each at max, and has 4 bottles of 3-4oz each  (on waking up - maybe 4-5oz, 11am,3pm and 6:45pm) plus a dream feed at 11. But he is still waking up once atleats in the middle of night, I end up giving him a pacifier to avoid feeding him... and he will fall off to sleep at times and then wake up anything between 5-6.

Am i feeding him too often? We have him on 3 solids due to his reflux, on Doc's advise, and it has made  a big diff to his burping etc so he is much happier now...

not sure if that is ok or not, everyone seems to ahve kids who sleep form 6-6 but that seems a bit wierd to me...even adults can't manage 12 hrs without food! But please correct me if I am wrong.

Does his schedule look ok?

He has just lats week changed all his napping habits and seems to be doing ESA rather than EASY as he use dto, but maybe its teething...he used to have 2 good naps and one short one previously...

Am getting us edto the 5 am start as long as he doe snot wake up in the middle. I feel the pacifier is becoming a prop, but I will probablyd ela with it once all of thsi is sorte dout. On the other hand, he is already belly crawling and trying hard to stand..he turns 7months today.


Your advise as always is much appreciated.
Thanks!

[EllenS]

Well, he may be trying to drop the catnap - I think thats' what's going on with my lo.  She won't catnap but then is overtired at bedtime, so we made bedtime earlier (6pm) and she's been waking between 5:30-6. 

That does sound like not very much milk for a baby his age. - only 20 ounces a day?  I am no expert, but it sounds small.

I read on another thread that what helps push wakeup later is having a long A time between wakup and first nap.  So, when she wakes at 6 I am trying to stretch her toward going down for first nap at 9.  We've been working on this a couple of days, and today she woke at 6:10 and went to sleep at 8:45 a, I'll also shift the whole day forward by 10 minutes or so.

She does not sleep 12 hours, but is on 1 night feed.  I feed her at 5:30 - 5:45 pm before bed, then she wakes between 1-3 am for a feed, then wakes up for the day around 4-5 hours later.

I really think it's largely developmental and needing her routine tweaked.

Is your LO still taking the catnap?

[Mama2boys]

Hi,

I think you are right, he totally dropped the catnap todya and took 2 long naps. so mayeb thats good, but in the morning woke at 5:45 and slept at 6:30, so will try and stretch that longer depending on how tomorrow goes.

Most people tend to think 20oz is not enough, but he is a tiny baby - 25th percentile, and seems to be steadily on that, any ideas on how I should work out if this amount of milk is enough? he has always been a light dirnker of milk, and I think the max he has ever had is 6oz of milk, he has never ever had  afull bottle...and depsite the fact that I always have mor eto offer he never takes it all.

Does your little one also eat pretty much throughout the day, its like evry 2.5 or 1.5 hrs he has something...is that wierd? It sort of allows me no time to go out etc. he is not very keen to sleep in a pushchair and wants his bed.... any guidance on that?

Many thanks
mukta