6 months old spirited baby self settling problem

[tweetie]

Hi to everybody. First I need to say that I am very happy that I discovered this forum and it helped me a lot (I apologize for my english but I am not a native speaker    I have spirited baby which was great with sleeping up to 3,5 month. At evening I would put her in the crib turn on the tommy star and she would fall a sleep. During the day I would need to rock her but everything was predictable and she would fall a sleep. In her 4 month everything went downhill when sleep regression started, she could not sleep during the day, would be awake few hours each night (in different times)... Thanks to this forum I solved sleeping during the day (more or less  and we passed NW. She still have EW but for me at this time point self settling is the biggest problem which became worse with teething (yesterday the second came out). I am not going to say that she started to sleep in our bed during night (last few weeks  ). If she is not irritated and ok she will sleep in the crib but if teeth or winds are bothering her she wants to be close to me (she exactly knows that she is in our bed - does not need to be exactly next to me  ). Ok regarding self settling - short wind down does not work at all, long wind down at evening is around 1,5 hr and she is kicking, screaming, crying, nothing could calm her even rocking does not work always.  When I left her in the room she immediately starts to protest and then cry (I noticed separation anxiety within last month), I could sit next to her for two hours she can not fall a sleep, and then she is more and more tired, restless, kicking, crying screaming ... Then I rock her because I know it will be mess - she will end up to be OT and wake up whole night. shh path does not work - she laugh at that  or if she is irritated then she becomes even more, PU/PD - no way, swaddling - depending on situation, usually in the final phase. Any ideas? Thank you

[jessmum46]

Your English is great!!

Could you post what your current routine (or what you are aiming for) is like?  It may be that she is needing a change in routine which is why you are having a lot of problems settling her.  She is at the age when babies start to drop from 3 naps to 2 which may also be a factor   If you post your routine I'm happy to have a look and see if we can improve things for you.

Are you still rocking her to sleep for naps and bedtime?

[tweetie]

Thank you  .  I am aiming to 4 hr EASY even though she is very often hungry after 3,5 hr or sometimes even after 3 so I feed her. Another thing - she became more interested for the environment than eating during the day and started to eat during the night each 4 hr (in the past there was one feeding around 2 am and another around 6 am and it was pretty consistent, without DF just regular one around 7 pm). I tried to feed her more times during the day but she is not interested or she would just have a snack  . Regarding sleeping she has two naps (first 1-1,5 hr; the second up to 1,5 hr, CN 30-45 min (I am "buying" it in Baby Bjorn outside in most cases-this is in ideal situation). Since her EASY is pretty modified (depending on her sleep) I tried to get rid of CN and put her in bed earlier i.e. 6.30 pm - it would be big fight to fall a sleep and then she would wake up few hours later crying. I will write EASY from the last week (last three day were mess because the second tooth was coming out):

---WED----------------------THUR--------------------------FRI
W 6.04 AM------------------7.25 AM----------------------6.50 AM
E 6.06 AM-------------------8.07---------------------------6.51
A
S 8.15 (1.45 hr) -----------9.57 (1.18 hr)--------------9.06 (1.05 hr)
E 10.16 ---------------------11.15-------------------------10.14
A
S  12.40 PM (1.24 hr) ------1.54 PM (1.35 hr)--------1.21 PM (1.25 hr)
E  2.29-------------------------3.41--------------------------2.48
A
CN  5 PM (30 min)-----------5.19 (30 min)---------------no CN
E 5.37-------------------------7.10 PM------------------------5.38 PM
E 7.29
BT 8.17 PM--------------------8.15 PM-----------------------6.15 PM


E 0.53 AM---------------------11.17 PM------------------11.47 PM (after that she slept 30 min and was awake 1,5 hr)
   4.36 AM----------------------3.04 AM--------------------5.10 AM  (after that did not sleep till 7 AM)

Today

W 6 AM
E 7.42
S 8.52 (1.27 hr)
A
E 11.11
S 1.20 (1.06 hr)
E  2.43
CN 4.56 -- I am modifying post day after just to to complete the view on the last EASY she slept 30 min
BT was 7.20 but she was waking each hour fussing or crying so I took her in my bed - then she went back to sleep pretty fast  (that is typical when I put her earlier in bed with or without CN)
Because of that I  did DF 10.10 but she ate again at 2 AM  and WU at 6.50 AM

edit: for the first two naps today I did not rock her I just took her in my arms to finish. For the CN o yes and I know for the BT it will be even worse. However even if I start immediately rocking it does not work - I need to catch "the right moment". I am trying to avoid rocking as much as I could

[tweetie]

one more thing  she is BF , I started to introduce solids three weeks ago but she is not thrilled at all and refuses it or just try some tiny amount

[jessmum46]

Don't worry about solids at this age - just for fun!  Milk is the most important

I think you're well into the 3-2 nap transition actually.  You have a lot of naps between 45 mins to 1h25 which would indicate UT and needing more A time, which may be why she is having trouble settling-shes just not tired enough. The way to approach it is to gradually add 10-15 mins to her A time every few days until you reach 3 hours.  There will come a time (around 2h45 A time) where the day is too long for 2 naps or too short for 3.  You can either skip the catnap, and go for an early bedtime around 6/6.30pm, or do a really short 10-15 min catnap in the sling, stroller etc just to get you to bedtime.  Some over tiredness is inevitable but if you keep pushing through with longer A times you will get there.

There's a support thread here Anyone want to talk about the 3-2 Nap transition? Part 2

[tweetie]

thank you very much  for taking time and help I have read about transition and started to work on extending A time just I wasn't aware that that could be the reason of self settling problem. I will start from there and see how it will go...

[jessmum46]

Great let me know how you get on

[tweetie]

Here I am  situation look much better thank you  but I have again few questions (or do you want me to post it on the nap transition 3-2?). Here is the summary: first day morning nap 1.44 hr and afternoon 30 min (BT 6.25 PM), second day morning 1.10, afternoon 2.25 hr, third day morning 30 min (I assume neighbours woke her up) and 3 hr afternoon (first two hours were outside we got so much snow so I could not resist).  BT is 8 pm and WU 8 am.
Still we have waking and crying each evening from 8.30 to 11 pm (I assume OT?).
This night she is awake from 2.30 am (already 2 hr) so I am having my coffee and writing this  (is this the consequence of short nap in the morning - 30 min and the long one in the afternoon -3hr?)

When I put her in her crib after 2.5 hr of A time she does not freaking out anymore  and it takes her half an hour to settle (it is not bad but still she can not fall a sleep and I end up rocking  but it goes very fast now. 

[jessmum46]

Can you post the whole day in EAS format so I can see it a little more clearly?  Just makes it easier to read . She may need a bit more of a push in A times if she's still taking a while to settle.  The 3h nap this afternoon could definitely be responsible for being awake at 2am too but hard to say without seeing the whole day.

[tweetie]

Thank you very much, here it is:

THUR----------------------FRI----------------------------SAT------------------------------------    SUN
W 6.50 AM----------------8.00 AM---------------------8.01 AM-------------------------------   W 6.43 AM
E 7.47 AM-----------------8.39------------------------- 9.02------------------------------------  E 6.47
    9.34                         10.31                                                                                     S 6.54 (1 hr)
A                                                                                                                                A
S 10.20 (1.10 hr) ---------10.52 (2 hr)--------------11.04 (30 min)                                E 10.21
E 12.39 ---------------------2.08-------------------------12.47                                           S 10.34 (50 min)
A                                                                                                                               A
S  2.15 PM (2.24 hr) ------3.36 PM (1.15 hr)--------1.38 PM (2.52 hr)                         E 1.41
E  4.40-------------------------6.09--------------------------4.47                                         S 2.17 (1.40 hr)
A                                                                                                                               E + A 5.01
E 6.52-------------------------7.13 PM------------------------7.00 PM                                          6.43
BT 8.04 PM--------------------7.53 PM-----------------------7.51 PM                                  BT 7.13 PM

E  9.25                               9.57                                 9.51
    00.38                             1.39                                 2.29 - then awake until 5.05
    4.25                               5.06

Sunday was mess with her EASY because of the previous night. Regarding last two days - I am not sure was she awake by neighbours or she would wake up no matter (don't ask I live in the downtown). She is very light sleeper. I put white noise and music very loud during the day and still you could wake her up taking plastic bag in another room  any solution for that? We could hardly breath when she sleeps...

Each evening looks the same with waking three or four times by 10 crying and screaming and then is over  OT?
Thank you

[tweetie]

I am back - horrible night crying and waking up till 10 PM (I fed her), slept by 1 AM, ate and fully awake. I assume it will again take three hours...

[tweetie]

another update  horrible night, lots of crying, screaming, slept from 3 am - 4 am, woke up crying, ate, end up in our bed    and slept till 7.30 am - we are exhausted. I knew I should not write how well it went - Murphy's law immediately caught me 

[jessmum46]

I think you're doing all you can if she's a light sleeper - just turn that white noise up as far as it will go.

It's a little hard to tell what she needs A time wise as she has quite a variety in the days you've posted.  I think it might help you (if you can) to try to stick to one A time for a few days as its very hard to spot any patterns without something being consistent.  How do you feel about trying 2h45 for her first A time consistently for a few days and see what that gets you?

[tweetie]

thank you. I was aiming to 3 hr A time but one thing is when I put her in bed and when she actually sleeps (this time I write as A time)

I took out A time: Thur (3.5 hr, 2.45, 3.25 hr), Fri (2.52, 2.43, 3 hr), Sat (3.03, 3 , 3.20 hr), Sun (2.40, 3.02, 3.17 hr) - you think it should be more consistent? How to make it happen?  I have always the same procedure: put her in bed after approx. 2,5 hr so she has time to settle. Do you think I should I put her just short before she is supposed to fall a sleep? Then I could go with 2.45 if you think it would be better.

[jessmum46]

If you are putting her down at 2h30 she is likely UT which is why she is taking so long to settle.  I tend to put my DD down 5mins before I want her to be asleep, then she is actually tired enough to settle down quite quickly.  I'd try putting her down at 2h45 to see if that makes a difference.