EASY all over the place with baby number 2!

[JamieD2013]

Hello!

DS is 5.5 mos old. Up until about three weeks ago he was a notorious cat napper, which I was OK with assuming that he would snap out of it eventually (my oldest did the same thing). Three weeks ago, he all of the sudden started taking great naps (1.5 to 2 hours twice a day with a third cat nap in the late afternoon.) and I was relieved, hoping we could solidify an EASY routine. Last weekend, however, he started catnapping again. I believe he is teething, which could be the culprit, but I'm wondering if it's normal for a 5.5 month old to start napping great and then regress a few weeks later. Is his brain trying to work out naps, or is it teething?

Also, I try my best to feed him as soon as he wakes up for the day, but he just refuses, which really messes up our EASY. We're adding in solids, too, which is adding an entirely new frustration into the mix! Any advice? Here's our typical EASY routine, which is all over the place from day to day!

A: 7-7:15 a.m.
E: 8-8:30 a.m
A: 8:30-8:45
S: 8:45-9 a.m.

He repeats this pattern throughout the day. I've started feeding him on demand because encouraging him to eat every 3-4 hours was actually producing less results and he wasn't getting enough ounces at the end of the day (he's bottle fed.) He has started to go much longer between feedings, but he hasn't upped his intake, which worries me.

At night, he has a 10:15-45 dream feed followed by a wake up anywhere between 2 a.m. and 5 a.m. where we feed him again. I'm thinking if we dropped the night feeding he would be more willing to eat at 7, but since he doesn't eat enough during the day most days, I don't want to deprive him of those calories.

Any and all advice will be much appreciated! I thrive on a good routine and miss my EASY days!

[JamieD2013]

I also want to point out that he is in the 90th percentile for height and weight and gains at every weight check, so I probably shouldn't be so concerned about intake. However, I do worry about dehydration.

Another note/question: We usually start the wind down routine about 1 hr and 45 min after he wakes up for the day and after each nap. Should I start lengthening his awake time?

[creations]

Teething can certainly disturb sleep, if there is any discomfort then they are more likely to wake at the transition rather than move into the next sleep cycle.  That said, the A time is rather short for his age so I would look to increase 15 mins and hold it there for several days then increase again, hold couple of days then increase again if needed.
Average A times- BOOKMARK ME!!
An A time of closer to 2hr 30 might help increase his nap length.

Around 5 to 6 months LOs are also ready to move to 2 naps. Some are older but perhaps worth being aware of it now.
All about the 3-2 transition- 5/6 months

I would drop the second night feed. As he is a good weight and height and healthy I wouldn’t think he really needs that second feed in the night. You could drop it by using shush/pat to resettle him at his 2-5am NW or gradually wean it over a week or two.  My choice would be the gradual wean, reduce the NF by an oz and take with you a second bottle of water for back up in case he doesn't settle.  If he drains the bottle repeat the same amount on nights 2 and even 3. Then reduce by another oz for 3 days and so on.  If at any time he doesn't take the full amount offered note the amount he took and only offer this amount the following night and continue to reduce the ounces (because if he chooses to take less then clearly he can manage on less).  Don't panic about the day ounces increasing immediately, it could take him a week to realise he needs to take the calories in the day rather than at night but he is not going to starve himself. If all day bottles are sufficient for him to eat his fill and there be an oz left in the bottle then you know he has fed to his needs.

I would continue with the DF for now.
Fitting solids in can feel like you do nothing but feed for a while but gradually it all settles down. His milk intake may not increase much because his additional needs are being met by the solids he is starting to explore.  Remember to offer a sippy cup of water alongside solids meals. In the very early days mine couldn't take much or anything from the sippy cup so I offered a bottle of water during solids meals as well as the sippy, that way I knew he was getting what he needed in terms of water even though it took a while to gain the skill of drinking form a cup.

Hope this helps. See how you go for a week or so with upping the A times and dropping that night feed.
Let us know how you get on.

[JamieD2013]

Thank you for the tips, Creations! I did try to stop the feed cold turkey last night to no avail. I ended up giving him two ounces and he fell right asleep. Another hurdle we have to jump is holding to sleep. He was doing a great job of falling asleep on his own, but he got his first cold a few weeks ago and now he is teething, so I've had to hold him quite a bit. Sush/pat seems tortuous for him AND me at 4 am but I guess we'll give it a try!

Unrelated, but what is your three year old's bday? It looks like my oldest was born close to yours! (2/1/11)

Thanks again!

[JamieD2013]

OK. So this is how our morning has gone so far (after a two ounce feed at 4:20).

WU: 6:45 a.m.
E: 2 ounces, 7 a.m.
E: Pears at 7:15 a.m.
A: 7:15-8:45
S: 8:55
A: 9:30 - let him fuss/talk in bed for about 10 minutes, could tell that he was still sleepy and held him to sleep for about 10 minutes.
S: 9:55 - ??

My question is this: is it better to just let him wake up all the way after the cat nap or hold him back to sleep in hopes that he'll sleep until the next feed (or close to it?) I can try shush/pat for the next nap (That seems to work better than PUPD) but I think it might just wake him up all the way. Does this make sense?

Thanks so much for all the help! It makes me feel a little less crazy!

[creations]

It's going to take a while to get him up to his guidance A times suitable for his age so at this point I would expect him to short nap, or to lengthen his nap one day but shorten again a day or two later. You can't really judge his ability to transition alone until his A time is up.
So, yes I would shush/pat him through the transition if you can, this is preferable than letting him wake all the way up, it reinforces the habit of staying asleep.  No point continuing for too long is he clearly isn't settling though.  You can go in at 30 mins and use W2S which is shush/patting through the transition to keep him relaxed.
How do I address habitual wakings? (wake-to-sleep and other methods)

With the holding to sleep, you may find he is more willing to relax in arms then go into bed drowsy once he is on a longer A time.  On a short A time he will likely be UT and not ready to sleep so will fuss much more if you try to put him down.

See if you can up the A and drop the night feed as described earlier, it's going to take a week or so to get into this routine when we can look again at nap length and ability to self sooth if needed.
hope this helps

My 3yo birthday was 11/1/11

[JamieD2013]

I'm starting to feel discouraged and need some TLC, please!

I realize I'm an impatient person, but these 4 a.m. wake ups are getting worse. I dropped the early morning feeding (which usually occurred between 3-5), and he still doesn't seem to want to eat a lot in the mornings. I was giving him three solid meals a day but I dropped one meal in hopes that he would take more formula.

I have tried to shush/pat through the transition at naps, but I can't do that consistently do to my three year old. It's so much easier to hold him to sleep when it wakes at night, but I know that is part of the problem.

I feel like there are so many issues and I don't know how to prioritize them! Is there anyway this will at just work itself out? I'm starting to feel too much pressure to have prefect naps(!) perfect meals(!) perfect night sleep(!).

Sorry for being all over the place. I'm just so frustrated!

[creations]

Oh dear ((hugs))

What A times are you giving now? Can you post today's or yesterday's EAS times?

YK if there is any way that is easier for you, sling, stroller, hold him etc then I would just do that for now. Or just work on one nap per day, choose one and stick with it though rather than chopping and changing between them as you want to build a habit and LOs know which nap it is!  I'm usually out in the mornings with my 3yo so if it was me I'd do anything for the morning nap then be home for the afternoon one, fill 3yo's mummy cup and then put the TV on for baby nap PD and W2S. I don't have a second child but I've seen quite a few others do this. Have you been on the 'then there were two' board, there may be some tips there?
And then there were two...
(it says 2 under 2yo but I'm sure there are some tips that could help you)

[JamieD2013]

Thank you so much for the encouragement.

We've been able to up the A time about 15 minutes - 30 at max - so he's staying awake for 2 hours - 2 hours and 15 minutes.

I'm making a lot of changes at once, which is a little overwhelming but, I think, necessary:

1. I've stopped the night feeding, which doesn't seem to increase his intake during the day, BUT
2. I've ordered faster-flow nipples for his bottles; I think he is having to work too hard to get the formula and then giving up when he gets even a little satisfied. I noticed today he is getting blisters on his lips! So I think the slower flow might be a big part of our problem.
3. Removing a solid meal. I thought this might also increase his formula intake, but if the nipples seem to do the trick I might add that meal back in. He LOVES solids.
4. Increasing awake time. This is a big challenge as he has NEVER been one to stay awake for long periods of time without getting OT.
5. Dropping the third nap. We're in the transition right now, so today I only let him catnap for about 15 minutes. I'm hoping that solves some of the night/early wakings.

Here's how our day went:

WU: 7:15 (after being up twice between 4 a.m. and 6:30)
E: (formula) 4 oz and solids between 7:15 and 8
S: 8:56 (was extremely tired; I;m assuming from all the early morning wakings) I had to shush/pat for a half hour.

A: 10:32
E: 11:10 - 6 oz
S:12:48 (shush/pat for about a half hour at the transition; he fully woke up at one point so I had to hold him until drowsy and then put him down.)

A: 2:55
E:3:15 (5 oz)
S: 4:45

A: 5
E: (Solids only) 6 p.m.

Bath: Around 6:30
Pajamas: Around 6:45
Eat: 9 oz (a record!)
Sleep: 7:30

Sorry for the rambling!
Writing  it all out helps, though!

[creations]

((hugs)) I know it must feel like super hard work right now with all that holding to sleep , resettling and shush/patting through the transition, but from his point of view things don't look bad at all, I mean his naps are a decent length with all the work you are putting in

That first A time is still very short isn't it. When you say he is extremely tired is he yawning and fussing? have you tried a change of scene, taking him for a walk around the house or garden or looking out of the window and chatting about what is there, rather than putting him to bed?  Some LOs do like a short first A time but really that's only suitable if their full routine is settled, good length naps and no EW etc, I'd be very tempted to push that first A more because a nap too early can just keep perpetuating the EW/NW, which is a cycle of then being tired in the morning and only managing a short A.
The other thing you could try is bringing his evening routine earlier. From reading many threads it seems quite unusual for a LO to have such a late solids meal and most seem to do better with an earlier meal, maybe do solids at 4.15 before the CN?
This would also mean you could bring bath and BT earlier too.  The last A time seems long in comparison, especially when you consider this A time comes after a very short CN, not a fully restorative sleep.  I would reduce it to 2hrs max, possibly even less for one or two nights to let him catch up on any OT (whilst you are cutting the CN you can allow for a longer night sleep. OT at BT can cause EW or NW in the small hours), you might see an improved night with an earlier BT.
What do you think?

(I'm not a medical person - did you get the blisters on his lips checked out by his doc?)

[JamieD2013]

Last night was awful. He was up from 2:15 until 3:15. I tried shush pay for about 10 minutes, held him for about 2 min and then did shush pat until I caved and gave him a two ounce bottle at 3:15. He woke again at 4:40 and I sent my husband in. He was able to get him back to sleep by just patting his back, but he woke up again at 5:15. I gave him another two ounces and I'm holding him now. I've tried to out him down twice but he just cries as soon as his little body hits the mattress.

I will try everything you suggest and see how it goes. Should I be focusing more on day sleep or night sleep at this point?

[creations]

That sounds rough. Is he poorly? teething?  It sounds like something is bothering him, rather than just a routine issue. Maybe those blisters on his mouth are sore?

Hang in there.  If there is something bothering him then all bets are off really until he is fully better, I would APOP naps if needed, move the dinner and BT earlier today and continue to do your best with all the things you are implementing/changing. When there are lots of different things going on it is not easy to focus on day or night specifically, there isn't really anything you can do differently at night other than be there for him, but reducing the last A time in the day could help with night sleep and the morning WU which has the knock on effect of helping the first A time.

[JamieD2013]

I'm wondering if he is genuinely hungry. I dropped a solid meal and the night feeding in one week and he still isn't taking more fluids. He's at least four ounces under the recommendation every day. The blisters don't look painful at all. They're definitely minor and exactly where there would be friction from sucking. He is a little congested but nothing really new, and he could be teething, but I never really know with that. He's learning to balance while sitting, so maybe a developmental thing? This week is def. the worst his nights have been in a long while and it coincides with dropping that am bottle.   

[JamieD2013]

Also, should I worry about holding him too much? Shush pat only seems to work for naps. I know you said APOP for naps but we use more props at night. (BTW - I totally forgot about the paci. It was never an issue with my first. Should I try weaning him off of that, too? I don't think it's an issue for him but at this point I don't know what is! Ahhh!!)

[Lolly]

I would get the blisters checked out- I have never come across a bottle fed baby with blisters on their lips from sucking too hard. My DS had a milk blister which was a bubble like blister in the middle of his top lip for a few weeks as a new born and that's quite common, other wise I've never heard of what you describe.

I do wonder if he has an allergy to the material the teats are made of - or he could have a virus which gives them mouth ulcers like hand, foot and mouth. Even if it's nothing you really need to get it checked.

{{HUGS}}

Laura