Anyone willing to help with a routine to fit round toddler? Nearly 6mo

[jessmum46]

Right ladies, I need somebody else to have a look at this for me as I'm going round in ever-decreasing UT/OT circles (I think!).  Would really appreciate a bit of help

DS is 6 months on Monday.  EBF but recently started weaning and taking to it well.  Independent sleeper - sucks thumb and has lovey.  In process of getting 4th tooth at the moment (we have early teethers here....). 

When DD was this age I got through the 3-2 by pushing A time, long mid-morning nap, (sometimes long) mid afternoon nap and EBT.  It's what I'd love to do again but it just doesn't work for us as a family as anything we ever want to do is mid-morning (toddler groups, church) or mid-afternoon.  I think we need relatively set naps, ideally with a short morning nap to end by 9.45am latest and a long one after lunch but I've been trying this with variable success with a first nap set at around 8.45-9 and second nap around midday.  That's why A times are all over the place....

Nights aren't brilliant to be honest.  He has a night feed around 1am give or take, then often has his 'morning' feed by about 6am.  There are often one or two other wakes which he will either self-settle/settle with very minimal help or be awake for ages, eventually only settling once fed.  I think sometimes he is probably UT from too-short A times, and sometimes OT.  I medicate for teeth.

Roughly his average sleep in 24h is about 14.5h so I think to aim for much more is likely to be unsuccessful on a regular basis.  He is happy to go down for a morning nap with a short first A time if necessary.  I'm happy to start the day at 6.30am so he doesn't come out of his room before then regardless of WU.

I'll post the last few days but they are not great!

Sunday:
WU 6, resettled 6.30-6.50
Nap 8.50-9.30 (I woke)
Nap 12-14.15 (cried out a couple of times but SS)
CN about 10 mins between 16.45-17.00 in car
BT 18.10
Unsettled 23.30-midnight (fed)
Unsettled from 4.30am onwards (fed at 5.20)

Monday:
WU 6.10
Nap 8.45-10.10 (he was shattered so I let him sleep)
Nap 12.45-13.30, resettled for 5 mins 13.40-45
CN 15.55-16.30 in car
BT 18.15
NF at 01.15
Heard at 05.15 but SS in 10 mins or so

Tuesday:
WU 6
Nap 8.55-9.40 (woke himself, not happy)
Nap 12-1 no resettle
CN 15.20-45 in bed, woke himself
BT 17.40
Brief NW 18.40 - SS
NW 22.10-23.30 - kept trying to SS but couldn't get there, eventually fed
NF 05.30

Today so far:
WU 7 (I woke)
Nap 9-9.45 (I woke)
Nap 12.15-13.50 woke happy

Anyone fancy a challenge and willing to help?!

[*Liz*]

Does your DD still nap??

[jessmum46]

Sadly not!  She tends to eat lunch around 12-12.30 followed by a bit of down time usually watching TV  so it's a good time for DS to nap.  Otherwise with a typical EASY he'd have his awake time then and be ready for sleep by the time DD is ready to get going again. 

[cath~]

I had/have the same conundrum with L and H, although L is at preschool 3 days/week so not quite such an issue.

Not what you asked for, but could I suggest an alternative?

Rather than spending ages trying to figure out how to get DS to nap at the times you'd like, why not just follow his easy as you did with dd (so do mid morning and mid afternoon nap) and make the most of it.  It might save you a lot of trouble trying to figure out how to make it work and there are a few benefits to the mid-morning/mid-afternoon nap scenario eg you can still go out for lunch (I remember this was tricky right after L went to one nap as we had to eat early and fast!). Also, even if you can't got to any groups for a few months, you could ask ppl round for play dates while DS is napping, plan some fun Xmas crafts with dd, go out and meet others at lunchtime. Also places like the park, woods, and the library are open all day so we go there a lot at the moment, at times that suit us.

Please ignore all that if you've already considered it and it's def not the way you want to go!

ETA maybe he's still a bit young for such an early second nap - his A time to BT might be a bit long, but maybe in a month or two it might be more doable? Eg Would he give you an early CN in the morning on the way to an activity/group?

Eta again I've also found that the children's centres round here do afternoon stay and play sessions 1-3 (can come any time of course) which is a time quite well suited to a baby on a two nap easy routine do you have anything like that you could go to? I always thought it was a daft time cos toddlers are (mostly) napping but now I think it's great

[*Liz*]

I did ^^^^^ but it just didn't work. We were housebound all day, and DD starting waking all.night.long due to UT. I think she just wasn't used to sorting her sleep in that way iyswim?

I basically kept a 9.30am nap and just kept shortening it until no longer needed. So perhaps 45-60mins at this age, then a 12.30pm nap followed by a looooong A to bedtime. She did OK on it though, and certainly no worse that when I used a classic EASY.

Personally I think a proper lunchtime nap makes a huge difference to being able to have a more 'normal' family routine.

Preschool pick-ups can be a pain with lunchtime naps though. Megan used to finish at 1pm last year.

[jessmum46]

Cathn - thanks for taking the time to post . I really appreciate it.  In my heart I want to stick with EASY because it's what I know, but I just can't see it working for us.  As Liz says we would just be stuck at home.  All morning for DS nap, all lunchtime for DD to eat (unless we eat out, but I can't do that every day), then all afternoon for DS to nap again followed by needing to be at home from 4.30ish for DDs tea.  I struggle a bit with keeping DD occupied all day at home, I just don't feel like I'm very interesting for her lol!  Not a gifted SAHM here....

Liz - were you working on a 7-7 day?  How long did DD tend to sleep at lunchtime?

(And btw you are a star to be here giving advice, busy day for you tomorrow!)

[*Liz*]

She would sleep 2-3 hrs (I did feed prior to stop hunger ruining my plans). Dropped the CN by 4 mths as well  , even forced.

Without a feed she slept for 45 mins only though.

[jessmum46]

B will happily take the CN, I don't think it's helping though. 

Do you think 9ish for 45 mins or so and then 12ish is reasonable then?  (Based on a 6.30am start). DS is just so prone to EWs though at the moment, I thought yesterday had gone fairly well yet he had a really unsettled second half of night and up for the day at 5.45am could be teeth/cold/tummy I guess rather than routine but still, makes it tough to get any sort of consistency! 

[*Liz*]

How are things going??

[becj86]

Can you do a CN at around 9:30 in the car/carrier on the way to your mid morning things?

Would something like this work?

6:30 wake
9:30 nap
10:15 wake
12:30/12:45 nap
2/2:15 wake
4:30 CN
6:30/7 BT

I remember seeing something like that floating around a bit when L was younger for people fitting around school drop offs and pickups.

[Martini~]

Hi Katherine you know my opinion but still I will post:D, hehehe.
In the routine you have I would tweak two things:
-   Shorten first nap, I think 45min is max if you still want a 1:30-2:00 nap later
-   I would work on longer A/shorter nap in the morning as I think B is UT... I think average child would do at that age 2,5h+30min+2,5h+2hours+4,5h what sum up to 12h day and 12h night (14,5h of sleep in total; you can tweak depending how B likes his morning nap and how long A till BT he needs and how long he sleeps when tired (mine almost never did 2h naps…)
-   I would set WU and BT at 6:30 if that suits you, I would set first nap to be at 9:00 (10min earlier maybe if he woke very early), always wake at 9:30 and follow with lunch time nap at 12 till 2; or give him 45min in the morning (9:00-9:45) but then make first or second A longer (instead of 2.5h, decide for 3h as Bec recommended) so either 6:30-9:30-10:15-12:45 or 6:30-9:00-9:45-12:45; with 45min in the morning he can have shorter second nap (not 2h)
-   If after 30/45min in the morning he still do a second nap shorter than 1,5h I would lengthen first or second A or shorten first nap to 20/30min

HTH

[jessmum46]

Thanks everyone, and yes Marta I think he is still UT, but then gets OT (silly loop...will I ever learn?!) so it's a struggle to push him from an early start.  Today I gave him 40 mins first nap instead of 45, couldn't quite face cutting it to 30 all at once but probably should have done as we had a good WU time this morning and he's messed around going to sleep at lunchtime.  Sigh.  I think if I get the times right he will do 2h naps, at least he's done plenty of them before whereas DD never did at this age.  Yesterday he refused a CN so that was fun....!

[jessmum46]

Yes I am officially an idiot.  I knew he wasn't tired.  50 minute nap.  And round the loop we go again!

[Martini~]

Another observation Kayherine on those 3 days... When his days I short ... He is not sleeping well at night. You posted 3 days and despite bad naps on Monday he did a nice night but his day was 12h almost and he slept 2:45. On Sunday he slept a lot! during day (3h+) and you made a short day for him (counting from 6:50 WU) it was 11:20h long and he had a crappy night. On Tue I would be tempted to put him down slightly later than 5:40 if you ask me. WDYT?

[jessmum46]

You are totally right sometimes an extra pair of eyes.....

Ok so today has been:

WU 6.30
Nap 9.05-9.45
Nap 12.20-13.10

Obviously needs another nap now and normal BT....ugh, thanks for holding my hand while I try to work this out xx