BabyWhispererForums.com
EAT => Breast Feeding => Topic started by: *Nicola* on January 30, 2008, 20:58:07 pm
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*sigh*
A couple of weeks ago AF returned and Callie was really fussy at the breast. AF is now well and truly gone but she has started to fuss again today and yesterday.
Today it was feeding time and she was lying on rug with her mouth wide open like she does when she is hungry, so I picked her up to feed her and as soon as I get her into position she screams and cries, arches her body away from me. So I lift her up and she is happy. Took her to nursery in the buggy and she spent the entire time with her mouth opening really wide and closing again. Tried to feed her when we got back and she does the same crying again :-\. I know she is hungry, so I held her as she arched and cried and just rocked her a little and sh'd her and she moves her head back towards me and starts rooting. Gets nipple in her mouth and she cries and moves away again. Sometimes she suckles and comes off, other times she just 'tastes' nipple :( Goes on for about 3/4 times then she feeds fine.
Bedtime feed, DF and night feeds are fine which made me think it might be a distractability issue but darkened rooms, tv off etc aren't helping.
Any ideas? Do I smell? Taste bad? :D
TIA ladies :-*
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Any ideas? Do I smell? Taste bad? :D
Oh don't tempt me!!!!!!! :P Am being very restrained here :-X ;) ;) ;)
I've no ideas tbh Nic - It sounds most odd. Ioan's only like that when he's mid-feed and has trapped wind, but that can't be the problem here can it?
Little Miss Callie is being a puzzle
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No ideas either, but some big hugs xxx
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Any ideas? Do I smell? Taste bad? :D
Oh don't tempt me!!!!!!! :P Am being very restrained here :-X ;) ;) ;)
LOL trust you! ;)
Sometimes she does it if she has bum wind ;) but it doesn't last this long. It seems that her issue is more with accepting the breast/starting the feed kwim. Something 'wrong' with milk, breast etc. :-\
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Just thinking ... it's a good job she won't take bottles or she'd be on them for good ;)
Seriously, it's getting me down :(
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How old is she again Nicola? Could she perhaps be teething?
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Angela, she is either 13 or 14 weeks. Can't remember exactly :-[ :-[ :-[ LOL second child syndrome!
I did think about teething so I put on some bonjela and gave her some Calpol but still the same hours later. No other signs of teething to be seen.
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Hmmm, also a bit early for teeth, although those blighters do seem to pop up whenever they feel like it!
My lo did this before he went on a full-on nursing strike...just to reassure you :D
Does she do it on both sides or just one in particular? What happens if you try her on the other breast?
I've had issues with oversupply that got really bad after a growth spurt, but looking back he often refused the right breast or just fussed a lot before going on as that one has always overproduced....
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My lo did this before he went on a full-on nursing strike...just to reassure you :D
NOOOOOOOOOOOO :o
Does she do it on both sides or just one in particular? What happens if you try her on the other breast?
Both sides. If I try her on the other side she cries and makes loud, aggressive noises. She very rarely cries but does make loud noises almost like shouts if she's not happy and that's what she does.
If I try to feed her and it is not feeding time (if she is grumbly or napped badly, for example) she will make these loud noises as soon as I move her into feeding position. It is the same noises she is making now, plus the crying. I have considered that she isn't so hungry at the 3 hour mark but I am sure she is still doing it if feeds are running over.
I am going to pay more attention to things tomorrow, times, sides etc
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Hi, I had a bit of the same issue with my ds at that age. You mentioned AF, do you think you're still producing well? I know ds was quite impatient and I believe someone told me that the taste can change a bit when AF is near. I know you said she's come and gone, but maybe it's left a bit of an aversion (sp?) for the lo. ??? Maybe you could change up the feeding positions and location. Have you tried laying down to feed? I'm just throwing some stuff out there that maybe you've not considered.
(((Hugs))) It's not the easiest thing to bf... you've done a fantastic job so far. :)
Lena
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Not really sure, but maybe try feeding her in a different position....rugby ball perhaps, if you usually feed the conventional way. Perhaps even try feeding her upright IYKWIM, or lying down with her...I found that worked quite well and still does if my lo gets fussy.
I'm not saying it will happen, but it is very common for babies to go on strike around 3 months. Has she had her jabs recently btw?
Also do you think maybe you have oversupply...are you engorged on a regular basis/have very strong let-down. Does she "click" at the breast/explosive poos/lots of wind?
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Thanks heaps everyone :)
I will try feeding in a different position tomorrow and see what happens.
She had her jabs 4 weeks ago, due next set next week.
Don't think I have oversupply. Never engorged. Let down is noticeable but not overly strong. Was much stronger with DD1. Sometimes she does click at the breast so I need to relatch her. No explosive poos or excess wind. She is going long between poo's now though, so maybe they are causing her discomfort but I don't think to that degree And not only at feeds :-\
Thanks so much for all of your ideas. So helpful :D
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She doesn't have reflux, does she? With the crying, arching back....it can sometimes get worse around 3 months, what with teething and other stuff....
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No reflux that I know of Erin. Will have a look at the reflux 101 now but nothing jumping out at me
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How is it today Nicola?
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:) Thank you for asking.
Last night DF, and night feed were fine. Fed from both sides at night feed and no issues. Big dirty nappy when she woke up at 730am. This morning she latched on no bother but did a fair bit of bobbing on and off. Once when she bobbed off and started crying I noticed that she got sprayed so maybe there is an issue there? She latched back on but kept coming on and off, not really latching well each time. She is also really stuffy this morning so I've cleared her nose ... will see how next feed goes. I'm going to try a different position to see how it goes.
:-*thank you
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Glad things arent too bad so far today! When my lo did this he also fed well at night, just the daytime feeds were an issue. Bobbing on and off can indicate letdown issues...either too slow (impatience before letdown occurs), or too fast and she cant keep up with the flow when it does occur. You say she has been clicking....do you notice she does that mainly during letdown, and is it at every feed? Are your nipps sore at all? Does she cough and splutter when she comes off?
I'm just trying to determine if its an issue with letdown, and whether its fast or slow???!!
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Well ... last feed was a nightmare :'( :'( :'(
Over 3 hours as we were stuck in snow ::) but she latched on right away as she was hungry and rooting, fed fine for about 5 mins and then started screaming. Went bright red and crying SO hard. Kept relatching taking a couple of sucks and coming off again. Really really upset. She never cries so I know something is def up. I have given bonjela again and medicine which she has spat out LOL. Tried feeding her on other side, she cried then latched on, suckled then came off.
I don't think it is impatience with letdown as it happens after a few suckles (letdown that is) . It doesn't seem to be that forceful. If she pops off and there is spray then it isn't a huge amount. With Ciara it was like a shower head on full force but with Callie it is just one or 2 sprays, kwim.
Thanks so much for your support, I am really struggling now :(
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This exact thing happened with me when my DS was 6 weeks. He fed fine at night but during the day he did exactly what you're describing. It took me ages to find a solution and I'm still not sure what the problem was - a combination of not liking being held in the traditional position, too distracted, strong let down I think! The only way I fixed the problem was to lie down to feed and it helped if it was in a quiet room. That way he didn't feel restricted by being held in my arms and there wasn't too much to distract him. I'd also sing to him as well to keep his attention!! He was never a long feeder but this stopped the crying.
I know how difficult and upsetting it is - I struggled with it for months - and if it goes on for much longer you'll find, like I did, that your LO will be making up the lost day feeds at night. Not a situation you want I can tell you from experience!!! Of course lying down to feed makes feeding when you're out and about a bit more of a challenge and you get bruises on your elbows but at least it becomes enjoyable again for you both.
HTH and if it doesn't let me know and I can try and think back to what else I tried.
Anna x
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Anna,
thank you for posting. To be honest I breathed a sigh of relief when I read your post, always safety in numbers. But I nearly fell off the chair when I read the solution!! LOL. Did you have to do ALL feeds lying down? Did it resolve? I did try to feed her rugby hold but she was having none of it.
She's napping now so we'll see how the next feed goes.
Thank you :-*
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I'm so sorry you're still struggling Nicola. As pp said, lying down often helps, I found that too.
Important thing is try not to get too stressed about it (easier said than done, I know!) as she will pick up on it and make the situation worse.
HUGS :-*
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ps take a look at this link, might give you a few more clues :)
www.kellymom.com/bf/concerns/baby/fussy-while-nursing.html#problemsolving
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Will try nursing lying down when she wakes up. I have my 4.5 year old here and her 4 year old friend so not sure how successful I'll be ;D
Angela, I have read through those links but I can't really figure anything out. I think I need to pay more attention to when she is fussing during the feed and try to suss things out from there.
:) :-*
DP just reminded me not to stress too much as she is doing exactly the same as she did a couple of weeks ago and it sorted out then. Here's hoping :)
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Yes - I did all the feeds lying down. It's actually not too bad once you get used to it. Though of course I didn't have an older child running about the place as well!
I'm not sure where you live but have you thought of getting a lactation consultant to come to your house and observe you feeding your LO? I did this and found it really useful.
Also if you think this is just a short phase - you could try feeding while you're up and walking about. This did work with my DS but it's not a long-term solution as it's very hard on the arms!! Just thinking now - you can get slings that allow you to feed - perhaps that might be worth a try?
Good luck
Anna x
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I have thought about going to the bfing support group to see if they can offer any insight.
To be totally honest I would rather not start to do all feeds lying down. Ciara sometimes really struggles with feeding times and I think she would find this difficult even if we had 'special time' etc. But, it might be the only way so we will see.
Feeding walking around has helped in the past and does help at bedtime if she is OT so I may try this.
Thank you, the support really does help :) Trying hard not to get too down about it, just breaks my heart to see her upset.
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Oh Nicola, I really want to give you some hugs! I know how frustrating and upsetting it is. It seems to be quite common, and more often than not nobody seems to be able to pinpoint the cause exactly. Hopefully it will get better soon.
I know how heartbreaking it is when they're upset, especially when you dont know why. As I said, keep up the good work hun, let us know how things go and if you find anything that works :-*
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Well, she slept til feed time so i just opened blinds, lifted her up still half asleep and fed, almost like DF. She fed fine :) I unwrapped from swaddle at end of feed and she continued to feed well. Often she sleeps til feed time so I will try this if i can.
Will keep you updated. :-* :-* :-* :-*
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{{HUGS}} Nic, sorry you're having a hard day and that I have nothing useful to suggest :-*
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Thanks Awel :D :-*
Well after the feed she played then started to do the big open mouth with tongue poking out - which she never does between feeds.
Took her to her room and tried to feed her but she arched away and made her very loud screeching noises ::) :P I then stood up and rocked her very slowly and gently and she latched on straight away. Letdown after about 10 secs. During the letdown she did pull back so i am wondering now if it is forceful/fast? Continued to feed though, so I sat down and she kept feeding for 10 mins :o She never ever feeds between 3 hours! . Now nap time again so she was drowsy and popped off and lolled back with her head off my arm. Very cute so DP gets camera and we video her and she chokes and vomits up the entire feed. Both I think ::) ::) ::) ::) Honestly. Didn't know whether to laugh or cry!
The good news is that she fed well - twice!
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Hugs Nicola -- wish I had a magic answer.
Arthur does this too sometimes, but I can't find any rhyme or reason to it. I do have a fast letdown and often when he pulls off, he gets sprayed in the eyes, ears, etc. The thing is, it's like you said, night feeds are absolutely fine. Some day feeds are okay and others not. If he needs to poo, it's brutal.
I don't have much to offer, but some things that seem to help are changing positions (like others have said). He'll often fuss if I try to latch him in the cradle hold, but will then latch on fine in the football hold. Also, I find once he starts to cry the battle just escalates. I used to persist in trying to feed him, but now I stop, try to distract him a bit and try again when he's calm. Like I said, I wish I had some answers.
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Hi Nicola, i have a 13 week old girl, Lauren, and she is doing exactly the same. She always goes on quickly but comes off after a couple of sucks or after 5 minutes then bobs on and off, sometimes looking up at the ceiling and crying and generally getting very frustrated. It started with some difficulties at 4 weeks on and off. I have always used 1 or 2 bottle feeds a day and maybe this is the cause for me, who knows? I have tried going from one side feeds to 5 minutes each side alternating, and lying down which works better, but as you say you dont want to lie down all the time. Oh, and for a few days she would not nurse on the left then not on the right! I notice she is better at feeding in the morning, though when she feeds peacefully she almost always falls asleep and then it is a constant vidual to keep her awake and sucking. Also when she gets upset there is no point in keeping trying! I have spoken to breastfeeding support groups and to be honest noone seems to have a magic solution. I am trying to keep it up but when it gets us both so stressed i wonder if it would be better to just give bottles. Still to have got to 3 months it is a shame to give up now. When it works and you are in harmony it is the best feeling in the world but when it doesn't it is sooo stressful. Just thought i would let you know you are not alone in tearing your hair out!!
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Hi Nicola,
I mentioned on the other the birth club post that I think Zac has had some tummy aches today, and it sounds just like what your describing. It's actually happened about 5 times in the last 3 days. I don't have a solution so would be really interested in anything that seems to work for you. From reading this post it sounds like a common thing to happen at 3 months ish.
Hope things continue to improve (but obviously without the vomit!), keep us updated
Sal
x
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Hiya guys
Kiran, Callie does exactly the same re latch in the cradle hold. She just won't tolerate it at all. If I am right feeding and I hold her head in my left hand and breast in right hand she will accept that and then I can hold her again in cradle hold, but it is so tedious, frustrating and sore to continually do that! This is what I do mostly if she won't feed. Thinking back ... when she used to be OT by bedtime (poor nap time) it was the only way she would feed. How strange, I'd totally forgot about that.
Sal, I was also wondering if there were some tummy aches going on. 3 times when she's been very fussy at breast she has been really windy and very smelly :-X :-X . We've had about 4 dirty nappies in 2 days, which is a lot for her now. Last 2 nights at DF and night feeds she has been windy too. Makes me laugh.
Tanya (((Hugs))) I totally understand what you mean about bottles. Ciara (DD1) said to Callie yesterday 'mummy will give you a bottle if you keep fussing' LOL Did you look at the link Angela gave on page 1? Did anything stand out?
Well, yesterday after vomiting up her feeds she was tired so I put her down for her 3rd nap but she wouldn't sleep just kept blethering to herself quite happily. I got her up and she was trying to munch my face and neck :o :D so I offered her breast and she fed, for about 30 mins! ::) Very, very strange as she only usually takes 10 mins max. She stayed feeding and missed her catnap so I put her down earlier but she was too tired at bedtime to feed so woke up 1 hr later for a feed. This mornings feed was fine but lots of wide open mouths later on, wouldn't feed again though.
Her behaviour is exactly the same as it was at 12 weeks when she had her growth spurt and I had AF. It is too soon for another GS (although I know they dont follow calendar) and there is no NW's and AF is nowhere in sight so I have no idea!!
The joys! Today is another day :D
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Hey Nicola,
Glad you've had a couple of successful feeds...these babies like to mix it up, keep us on our toes yunno!!
Given that she feeds well at night, it might just be a case of the "highly distractibles"?! Especially with another lo running about. During the day, Callie probably just wants to look around and listen to things rather than feeding. Another thing to consider is ear ache...although given that you have the same problem no matter what side she's lying on, and that its only during the day, I would say its probably more like the "HD's" as I like to call it instead :P
I know what you mean about them being windy....sometimes when I put Josh down after his DF, he just lies there with his eyes closed, banging his legs up and down, throwing his head from side to side...then the most gigantic bottom burp comes out and goes straight on sleeping....I have to make sure I dont laugh too loud so I don't wake him up!! ;D
Oh, and the blethering is also funny...although not at certain times of the day! Night before last, Josh woke us up at 3am just chatting to himself...VERY loudly! I left him, but he wouldnt quieten down so I ended up going in to feed him at half 3 just to shut him up....then he continued doing it after I put him down! Guess whose found his voice LOL ;D
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Angela,
She is most definitely 'HD', without a doubt. If we are at the other end of the house and the front door opens she pauses in her suckling. Menace. She will often suck, pop off, suck, pop off, smile, suck, pop off lol you know!? The crying was new, only seen before when she had GS and I had AF but maybe it is just related to the HDs. Too busy to feed but wants to feed?
Both feeds today have been fine, so we will see what the rest of the day brings x
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Take it one day at a time. Could be that she had a bit of a bug or a cold and it's passing....also, if she misses feeds or doesn't feed well for a day or so, or keep puking them up ::) she might be trying to make up for it now. I'd say if it persists, maybe treat it like overactive letdown problems for a few days - modify positioning, pop off when the letdown happens and let it spray off a bit. If that doesn't help, then I'd re-look at the reflux 101... :-\
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Hmmm, yes I know exactly what you mean Nicola! Josh is terrible for distraction atm...."ooooh, I can hear the tv, lets see if I can watch it" pops off....on again, then pops off "I love you sooo much mummy" GRIN..on again..."hmmm mummys trying to actually DO something while she's feeding me (read a magazine/do some brain training on the ds)..lets have a look" pops off again. And so on and so forth! I even had to leave it a bit earlier, then feed him again standing up & swaying while he studied the vase of roses on the mantlepiece. Menace, as you say ;D
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Angela, that post made me smile!!
So ... today has been OK really. Morning and lunch time feeds fine (only us in house) . Afternoon feeds when DD and SIL were about. She latched on well but started fussing at let down, pulling back but staying latched then cried. Took her to quiet room, latched her on whilst rocking her slightly as she cried when I tried to latch her initially, and she had a good feed.
I have been paying attention to the feeds since you mentioned letdown Angela, and I have noticed that she 'pulls back' slightly just after initial letdown. She does this during night and at DF too. She seems to cope with it better if there are no distractions but when things are busy it seems too much for her. Could this be the case? That if she isn't concentrating fully on eating that letdown can be too much for her?
Erin, I let the milk flow a bit today when she popped off and she took the feed fine after that. If it is overactive letdown why would it just appear/bother her now?
Just wanted to say thanks again everyone :-*
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If it is overactive letdown why would it just appear/bother her now?
Dunno.... But....if it works, then go with it and don't ask too many questions! ;)
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Glad my post made you smile! ;D
So glad things are better today! Its good its helped when you're on your own with her, although I know thats not going to be practical all the time. If I am out of the house or if we have visitors I always have to go somewhere quiet to feed Josh...sometimes even if we're alone in the house I have to feed him in his room as theres just tooooo much to look at in the living room ::)
Yes, if she is pulling away during letdown it sounds like its a bit fast for her. Do as pp suggested, when she comes off let the milk flow into a muslin and when it stops latch her back on. It may have just become a problem if she's just had a growth spurt and you're producing more milk....I know thats when the problems started for us. Annoying I know! Either that or as you said. she's just reached an age where she's more aware of her surroundings and is therefore too busy concentrating on other things than dealing with the flow, IYKWIM!
Keep us posted x
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If it is overactive letdown why would it just appear/bother her now?
Dunno.... But....if it works, then go with it and don't ask too many questions! ;)
LOL very good point!
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Angela, when Callie has been looking to feed extra it is in her room. I wonder if it suits her better in there. No TV, no Ciara, constant white noise from humidifier, dim lights etc. Going to make an effort to do all feeds in quiet room to see if it makes a difference.
DP just brought me chips and cheese from takeaway to cheer me up - having a strange bleugh day - must go and devour them. Hopefully Callie will like cheese and chips milk tomorrow and eat like a good girl! :-* :-*
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Ooooh cheesy chips! Awesome comfort food yum yuuummm. If that doesnt get her eating, nothing will! Top it off with some chocolate, that'll get the girl suckling ;D
Thats good, although it may be difficult to feed her in her room all the time, at least you know you have somewhere she feeds well. Hope it works for you :)
Enjoy your dinner! :-*
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Today hasn't been great again :-\
Refusing to feed then showing hunger cues.
Today she wouldn't feed so we put her down when it came to nap time. Of course she was hungry so she cried. Got her up and she latched on not too bad. Didn't feed for long. Spent about 10 minutes desperately trying to eat her hands, refused feeds. Put her back down and could NOT get her swaddled as she kept trying to eat both of her hands. Checked for teeth/sore bits and can't see anything. She went to sleep within 5 mins so she can't be hungry can she?? Think I am going to give her some paracetomol when she wakes up and keep it up until tomorrow to see if there is pain somewhere.
Sigh. Really got the better of me today and I have been in floods of tears which just isn't like me at all.
Thanks for listening.
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I was just about to suggest some pain meds in case it really is teeth.... (Great minds think alike and all that, right?)
{{{HUGS}}}
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HUGS.....I know how you feel sweetheart, really sorry its taken a step backwards again. If its any consolation, Josh is being a pickle too! Feeds for under 10mins, doesnt drain my boob then kicks up a RIGHT fuss when I try to get him to go back on, which needless to say is unsucessful! Oh, and he's started waking at 4am for a feed then not wanting his breakfast when he wakes at 7am which throws the day RIGHT out. Sigh.
Are you pumping at all to maintain your supply? Might be a good idea to do that if she refuses feeds, you can always give it to her (if not in a bottle you could cup or syringe feed) as a last resort to make sure she's getting something into her. Sounds like nursing strike territory! See if the meds help anyway :)
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:-* Thank you
Love your avatar btw!! Gorgeous stripes, bless :)
Just realised today that Callie is 15 weeks not 14, so 3 weeks since last feeding issues. I am wondering if body is gearing up for AF again :-\
I also think I am going to try feeding at 3.5 hours instead of 3 and will express after feeds x
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Yes, possibly gearing up for AF again....i'm very lucky in that mine hasnt returned yet....and long may it stay that way!
I dont think I realised you're still on a 3 hour easy....probably a good idea to start stretching her out thats for sure. Hopefully that'll make her hungrier and therefore forget about whatever is causing her to be fussy and just get on with it....
Did you enjoy your cheesy chips last night?!! x
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We have been moving towards 3.5 hours. If she will stay up longer that's great, if she sleeps a bit longer I leave her now trying to make the transition.
Lucky you having no AF - hope it stays that way. LOL @ Josh waking for a feed then not having brekkie. Is he having GS do you think?
Cheesy chips were wonderful, as was the pizza and pakoras :o :o :-X ;)
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Think I am going to get AF :-\
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:( BUt it might explain the recent fussiness?
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That's what I'm thinking. I really hope it is. Then I would know what it is :-\ Fingers crossed for AF LOL
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Just sending you MASSIVE {{HUGS}} Nic - sorry I disappeared off MSN earlier hope to catch you tomorrow for a chat - :-*
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You know, I got AF back when Riley was about 11 months, can't quite remember exactly, and he was so fussy for the couple of days before hand. And actually, even after we weaned, he would still wimper a lot in his sleep the days leading up to AF, I was not regular but knew when to expect it due to his behavior. I don't know if it was because we were cosleeping or what, but soomething was definitely going on every month. I thought it was a change in the milk supply, taste etc., but it seemed to go deeper than that.
Hope it all settles down for you and that gorgeous girl of yours!
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Hugs Nicola. I'm so sorry today went badly. At least if it is AF you have an explanation?
Arthur's been the same today, pulling off and both fists into mouth.
Mmmmmm... I'd forgotten about cheesy chips -- I could do with some of those :)
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Hi Nicola,
Sorry I havent been back to check up, bloody internets been down grrrrrrrrr! Orange are RUBBISH! Do they not know i'm totally addicted to the internet and start to get withdrawal symptoms if i'm away from it for more that a few hours??!! Honestly ::)
How are things today? If its due to AF then at least you have an answer....bit annyoing that you might have to got through this every month?!
No dont think Josh is having a gs...he still tends to wake in the night for a feed, but its usually between 2-3am...which is fine as he then gets up at 7am and is actually hungry. I would rather that than the 4am and not being hungry when he wakes, it REALLY messes the day up. It was 5am this morning, even worse!! He did go back down luckily (though we were up for the day), then woke at 8:30 so I fed him at 9. But it means our feed times have been 5am, 9am, 1pm, 5pm....so its going to have to be an early bedtime and no catnap me thinks. Babies eh ::) x
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big {{{hugs}}} Nicola!
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Hiya girls
Thanks for the ((Hugs)) everyone :-*
Still thing something is going on with AF, got that tummy feeling. But I had the feeling for about 2 weeks before she showed last time, so not sure if she will show for a while yet.
Been mostly on a 3.5 hour EASY today. This mornings feed was fine. Second feed was so so, started well but then Ciara shouted and that was that. Had to take Callie to her room where she fed fine. After her second feed she started eating her hands like they were chocolate (or boobs, baby equilavent to choc!), literally ramming them into her mouth. I thought she was hungry again so I tried to feed her but she didn't want anymore. Had a big sleep and woke up starving (3.5 hours instead of 3). Eating hands again so I popped some bonjela on and gave paracetamol. Another brilliant feed. Eating hands again after feed and started trying to eat mine/anything she could get in mouth. DP had a look in her mouth and there are 2 white spots so I think we may have teeth bothering her. Kept up the bonjela and meds and she has fed like a star all day.
What a lovely day it has been. I feel a hundred times better not having her cry at feeds. (((Hugs))) to anyone who has issues around feeding on a longer term. So we'll see what happens over next few days. I have had some great input on reflux board too. If thinks don't settle a bit over next couple of days I will call GP re reflux but I don't think it is that.
Kiran (((Hugs))) Is Arthur teething? Or does he eat his hands because of his reflux?
Angela ... didn't know orange done internet provision? Callie also has a feed between 2 and 3am. I have been wishing for it to get nearer morning, but it didn't occur to me that it might mess with morning feeds. Think I'll just be happy for now.
:-*
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Definately, I would love if Josh went back to 2 or 3am...much better! Its frustrating cos I wish he'd either wake then for a feed or sleep through. He CAN sleep through, and with a bit or perseverance I could probably NOT feed him when he wakes at 4/5am...but at that time of the morning my boob is fit to burst and I really cant be bothered so its easier to just feed him! I thought about dropping the dreamfeed but he's started waking for it anyway so that's not going to work either. Sigh!
So pleased today has gone better. Teeth eeeeeek :o Dont think Josh's will be long either, dreading it! :-[
Yes Orange do internet now....I was with Wanadoo, then they changed to Freeserve. and now they're Orange. Server goes down on a regular basis sometimes for 24hrs +...very annoying! x
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The joys!
Are you chatting on the BC threads? Would be fab to keep track of bubbas there ;D
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That's what I was thinking. DS did that, starting at about 3 months. Does she cough or act like she has a cold at all.
Other thing I was wondering is if you have changed soap or deodourant (how on earth do you spell that??) or any kind of body moisturiser cream? That can affect lo's
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No, but will check them out!
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:)
Things fine again today. Callie still chewing her hands and mine but seems to be happy enough and I'm giving some Bonjela.
Hoping this is the end of the fussiness, for a few weeks at least!
Thanks so much everyone for your support :-* :-*
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good luck
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Thank you ... and I am just remembering that I have changed my shower gel! :-\
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Nicola, glad things have settled down for you.
I've just changed my shower gel too! :)
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How's Arthur doing?
I spoke to soon, today has been a bit of a nightmare. Stuffing her fists into her mouth and crying lots at nap time. Not sure what is going on, calpol not really doing the trick and I don't want to keep pumping her full of meds. Got an appointment at GP this morning. Will ask his opinion on reflux, see what he says.
Kiran, I have been thinking about how similar Callie and Arthur are at the breast and wondering whether she does have reflux also. The only difference is that Callie isn't like this all the time at all.
Will see what he says.
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Hope your appointemnt goes well! :-*
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Well, GP thinks thrush is a possibility and has given her mouth gel.
If that makes no difference he will look at gaviscon for reflux.
He did wonder if she was just being 'stubborn' ::) ::)
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::) typical GP! Is there any sign of thrush on her bottom? Usually if its thrush you will know straight away from that. Does she look like she has it in her mouth then?
I think Josh defo has reflux...always had it a bit, never really bothered him but been spitting up and dribbling a LOT the past week or so....supposed to get worse around now isnt it? Also he feeds for about 5 mins then wont have anymore....doesnt come off and scream like Callie but just refuses to have anymore. Fun! I just raised the head of his mattress, went in about 15mins later and found him sideways in the cot!!!! :o :o :o Made me giggle, he seemed to think it was quite funny too ;D Just looking for a sleep positioner online so I can put him on his side as he doesnt like sleeping on his front...he just ends up trying to get up on his knees and (what looks like) crawl! :-*
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Lol at just being "stubborn"
I too thought it was pretty obvious if they had thrush? Sometimes I think docs just say stuff to get rid of us. I do hope it's not reflux Nicola. Her behaviour does sound similar to Arthur's though. The other thing is that apparently reflux flares up sometimes, like during teething and growth spurts and some other things I can't think of ::)
Arthur fed well yesterday and today he's started actually biting my nipples -- clamping down really hard. I keep asking him if he wants to be a formula baby!
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I keep asking him if he wants to be a formula baby!
LMAO Kiran, I threaten the same!
I am beginning to think that it is reflux. I've been posting on the reflux board too and others there think it might well be. I am going to head back to the GP on Friday if things haven't calmed down. Kiran, how do you give meds if they are bf?
Angela, we have had tonnes of drooling, hand biting here too.
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Drooling, hand biting, chewing the muslin, puking loads, crying when laid down...reflux fun methinks! He has fallen asleep pretty much sideways in his cot again LOL....need to do WTS tonight (keeps waking at 10pm) so good opportunity to move him! ;D
Kiran, Josh "bites" my nipples sometimes too...he'd better not do it when he gets teeth!! He seems to think its funny when I say OUCH! :o
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Angela, Callie sounds just the same.
Just looking at their pictures ... look how similar they look!! Tis the chubby cheeks!
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Hehehehh gotta love the chubsters! Bless, they make a beautiful baby couple ;D
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Nicola, to give meds when they're breastfed depends on the meds. If they're okay on their own, like in a syringe (Zantac is like that and I think Gaviscon), then you just give it to them. Things like prevacid or losec are often mixed with something, like food - I know with the prevacid, I couldn't do it with the breastmilk, because they don't dissolve. But Sam was over 6 months, so we did pears....
With regards to thrush, are you having any symptoms and did your GP talk about treating you at the same time? Usually with thrush, it's recommended to do both at once, so you don't pass it back and forth....
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Nicola, we just gave Arthur the Zantac with a syringe and he was fine to take it.
With the Losec, it now comes as a liquid, but the pharmacist took a few days to get it to us.
Let us know how it goes at the gp!
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Erin, no he didn't treat me :-\ DI pointed that out on reflux board. He did ask if I had symptoms which I don't.
TBH I think he was fobbing me off a bit. He did say, 'if babies are looking well and feeding well there is usually nothing to worry about' Um hello?? I'm here because she's not feeding well ::)
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Seriously! Samantha was downright chubby and developing wonderfully, but was a nightmare to feed and didn't sleep. If I hadn't come prepared with info on silent reflux and determined to get what I wanted (reflux meds), I'm positive I would have left with a prescription for antidepressants for ME! >:(
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Definately sounds like a fob-off Nic! Bloody gp's ::) Hope you get it sorted...i'm taking Josh to the doctors tomorrow as i'm convinced his problems are reflux related, so watch this space! x
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WE KNOW BEST! WE KNOW BEST! WE KNOW BEST! (Just thought we needed some power-chanting in prep for the doc visits...) Good luck!
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ABSOLUTELY!!! Hey we could create a cheering squad outside the doctors surgery LOL ;D
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;D ;D Going to print some stuff out to bring along.
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How did you get on at GP Angela?
Today we've had great feeds, no sickness, great naps and 12 night sleep with no feeds. This baby was sent to confuse me!
I am going to give the thrush treatment until Monday and go back then. I just know he will tell me to finish the course if i go back before then!
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Hey Nic!
Meant to post earlier but havent had a chance. Well, went great at the GP. Veyr lucky in that I have a very good GP who used to work at the same hospital as me, and is very understanding to boot! Didnt ask too many questions, gave us some Gaviscon which is great. Its a bit of a faff to give though....Josh wont take a bottle, so ended up trying to give it to him in a syringe and he spat most of it out! ::)
So glad Callie is being good for you, AMAZING about the 12hrs sleep!!!
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I can imagine that he would spit it out, esp if it's anything like the adult version. :-X
To give it in the bottle do you have to give some milk in bottle before regular bf? ???
Callie was bringing up tonnes yesterday and was really fussy all day which is just not like her. Naps all 45 mins, couldn't resettle herself and was so OT. Bless her. Taking her back to Doc this afternoon. :)
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Awwww poor Callie! Hope doc listens to you this time.
Well, we are having fun and games...feeds till 5mins in day, not doing him or my supply any good! Really unhappy bless him. Gaviscon is still a nightmare, its nothing like the adult version....I think he'd take it better if it were?! Its kinda creamy in colour and just has an unplesant odour...he hates it. I think i'm gonna try mixing it with ebm to see if he takes it better. Its annoying that it has to be after a feed, think we might have more success if it were before but that kind of defeats the object! Sigh.
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::) ::) Oh dear, not great at all then. My doc did ask me to begin working on her accepting bottle again as it is easier to give it in bottle.
But if its to be after feed i cannot imagine HOW she would accept that after feed.
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I often find the syringes are easier than the bottle - you can just squirt a bit as they suck - and you can try mixing it with EBM maybe for better taste?
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Tried that, even worse than trying it on its own!
Basically Nic you have to mix it with 15ml water, so its not like giving a whole bottle....I tried doing 5ml water, 10ml ebm but made no difference. He really hates it and just screams, I'll try a few more times but might just give up and ride it out until reflux gets better ::) Theres no point trying to force it into him, just upsets him. Think i'm going to have to start pumping after feeds to maintain my supply though...I hate pumping! Might post post on the reflux boards to see if anyone has any magic ways of getting babies to take meds. Fed up with it all atm, sorry to moan :(
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Poor Callie. Let us know how it goes at the doc's.
We used a syringe for Arthur's meds, but it didn't matter when he got it so we gave it to him before feeds when he was hungry and he took it no problem. I don't think there's any way we could have gotten it into him after a feed.
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Well, I had a look at loads of info and although it says give gaviscon after a feed, a lot of it says its fine to give before....so I just gave it to him before, and just used the 5ml water so there was less. He still cried but got most of it into him and just had the best feed in weeks! So going to go with that approach from here and hope it works this well everytime :)
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That's fab! Hope feeds continue to go well :)
I think my ds has gone from feeding badly cuz of reflux to feeding badly cuz of teeth. :( He clearly wants to be weaned.
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Thankyou!
Eeeeek teeeth!! :o I'm not looking forward to that. Hope little Arthur improves soon :-*
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Hi girls,
not sure if it'll help but I remember the midwife telling me (to try and get Dom to take his Vit K after he was born) that as soon as the meds are in the mouth, rub the soft bit under the baby's chin, in circular motions and apparently it makes them swallow. This might help your lo's to swallow the meds before they try and spit it out.
Hope everything went ok at the docs today Nicola,
Sal
x
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Great news Angela!
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Sal ... I was just reading out your post to DP and started rubbing under my chin and had a HUGE need to swallow!! LOL! Going to do that tomorrow.
I just updated on Reflux boards, but basically GP was fine, gave us gaviscon. Feeds have all been fine for days now (since before meds) spitting up seems less but we will see how it goes over next few days.
Angela, how's Josh?
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Hey there!
Much better since we started the gaviscon thanks. Still only has short feeds in the day but he isnt unhappy or spitting up anymore. Damn stuff is making him constipated though...had his forst poo in 3 days this morning (usually goes at least once a day!), and has just woken up straining for a poo now! Poor little chap. Doesnt sounds like dh is having much luck settling his so better go to the rescue ::)
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Glad the chin rubbing worked on you, now just need it to work on our lo's!
x
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Worked on her most of today. What a great tip :D :-*
Angela, glad Josh is doing good with the gaviscon, long may it continue :)
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Hows Callie doing now? Josh's feeds got better for a bit, but his daytime ones have gone to pot again...getting sooooo frustrated! He will feed for about 4mins, rarely longer, and just WONT have anymore. He doesnt appear to be in pain from the reflux anymore and pukes very little now. But I still, no matter what I do, cant get him to feed well in the day! I know he's not getting enough....my poor boobs are always full, and he's waking hungry in the night :( Evening and night feeds are great, 20-50 mins average.
I tried cutting his feed short when he woke at 2 this morning ( he usually protests loudly when I do this and I end up letting him go back on, but he let me last night)....boy did that backfire!!! Put him down at 2:20am, only for him to be up again at 4am! :o :o :o AHHHH! Needless to say he was hungry, I tried pu/pd for half an hour but he wasnt settling so just ended up feeding him. I'm getting so disheartened with the whole thing :'( Sorry to moan.
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((hugs))
Callie's feeds are going fine, no crying or refusing feeds now. She is absolutely the same as Josh though, will not feed any longer than she wants too. If she hears an interesting noise she is off and that is that. Breast compressions, switching sides, burping very rarely makes a difference. He will feed for about 4mins, rarely longer, and just WONT have anymore. He doesnt appear to be in pain from the reflux anymore and pukes very little now. But I still, no matter what I do, cant get him to feed well in the day! I know he's not getting enough....my poor boobs are always full, and he's waking hungry in the night :( Evening and night feeds are great, 20-50 mins average.
I wonder if he is just feeding when the milk is coming fast and is stopping when it becomes a bit more work for him? Do breast compressions help any? Will he feed at other side?
((Hugs)) it is hard work. I think you should start a separate topic Angela, that way plenty of people will have a look and give you some good advice. You'll probably get lost in amongst this one. :-* :-*
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Hugs Angela. Arthur's the same -- feeds brilliantly at night, but that's it. It is so frustrating -- I end up usually just letting him play for a bit and then try again 20 minutes later because I get so mad at him >:( He's always trying to look around and my boobs actually hurt from all the nipple-pulling. Sophie was never this bad and I'm thinking if he'd been first he'd be on formula by now!
I also try to short-change him at night and it backfires (glad I'm not the only one :-[). He'll kind of nod off after one side so I'll put him down and he'll wake 2 hours later for the other side -- it's just so tempting when all you want to do is go back to sleep to say, "oh, he's done"
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I have just spent the last thirty minutes reading all your posts from the beginning. I am sooooo glad to see that I am not alone. My 13 week old is doing the EXACT same thing. He will eat for 4-5 minutes and start pulling off. I then switch to the other side and it is like clock work.. after a few mintues he starts to pull off. Sometimes he gets really really fussy and won't go back on .. I then have to pump and give him a bottle. (Which he gulps down)
I have found a new and exhausting trick. If he starts to pull off after 5 mintues. I stand up and walk around and re-latch him while walking. He stays on a little longer. I usually can get him to eat this way. yippee... but I have to say it is getting very exhuasting. I rented a scale to see exactly how much he is eating. Usually after 5 minutes on one side he has taken anywhere from 2.5-3 ounces... so if he would only stay on fro ten minutes we would be all set!
The nighttime feeds are great. With the scale I can see that in 10-15 minutes he eats about 5-6 ounces.. no problem. I wish all feeds were like this.
I talked to my doctor and she seems to think that it isn't reflux because the nighttime feed is fine. She put him on thrush medicine to see if that is it. (too soon to tell) I think it is letdown. I think after it slows down he gets lazy and doesn't want to try very hard... not sure why the walking around helps.. Maybe he is distracted... who knows.
I have to give the scale back soon and i am dreading it.. I love knowing how much he is getting to eat. I try to at least get 4 ounces out of him at a feeding. The 4 am and 7:30 am feeding and bedtime feedings are the best. I usually get him to eat 4.5 to 5.5 ounces. The rest of the day it is closer to 4 ounces.. sometmes it is 3.5
His daily intake is usually around 26-29 ounces. The lactation consultant says he should be eating closer to 30-32 (he is almost 13 pounds) but the peditrician says it can range from 24-32. So who knows!!!
I am just glad to see I am not alone.. My husband thinks I am looooney tooons. If anyone has any updates.. please reply.
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((Hugs)) and welcome Jen :-*
Getting a good bunch of us here now :)
Reading your post I thought about the letdown issue too. If he is taking the bottle without any issues it might well be that he is doing this as it is less work for him. If you don't offer the bottle at all what does he do?
Regarding reflux .... my doc also told me that if Callie had reflux the nightfeeds would also be a bother. Well it turns out she does have reflux and the night feeds are fine. We were also treated for thrush (a brush off I suspect). Callie would also feed longer if I walked around or if I rocked her for a bit. Apparently this can also be a sign of reflux. Have you visited the reflux board? It might help you to have a look there to see if anything stands out.
Out of interest how do the scales work? Do you weigh your baby? Or your boobs!?? LOL 'scuse the ignorance ;) :-*
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Angela, how's things going? :-*
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Hi girls! Wow, i've started something here havent I??!! Its reassuring to know there are others out there having the same problems isnt it. Maybe the subject of this thread should be modified Nicola??!!
I have tried breast compressions, make no difference although I still do them to get a few extra oz into him. I have also resorted to walking around, waiting a while and trying again...earlier I got 10 mins out of him, but it took me an hour to do it LOL! I have had issues with oversupply so have plenty of milk, and he doesnt have to work very hard. He is distractible, but I always try to feed him in a darkened room and it still generally makes no difference. I just think he's not a particularly hungry baby...if I could wean him from the night feed I think day feeds would be better, but that just isnt happening atm! Its just so frustrating, my poor boobs hurt most of the time from being engorged, when he stops and wont go back on I check to see if he's got to the hind mink and more often than not he hasnt ::) I did keep switching sides today, but then he's just getting foremilk so I dont think it helps really.
Josh had a brilliant 40min feed before bed which he usually does....I wish he'd do this all the time!
Sometimes he gets really really fussy and won't go back on .. I then have to pump and give him a bottle. (Which he gulps down)
This is definately a lazy baby, as Nicola said, if he gulps down a bottle its likely that after the initial letdown its too much like hard work to get the rest out! Josh wont take a bottle so I dont have that option even if I could be bothered! Have you tried breast compressions Jen?
I talked to my doctor and she seems to think that it isn't reflux because the nighttime feed is fine. She put him on thrush medicine to see if that is it. (too soon to tell)
Regarding reflux .... my doc also told me that if Callie had reflux the nightfeeds would also be a bother. Well it turns out she does have reflux and the night feeds are fine. We were also treated for thrush (a brush off I suspect).
Doctors dont know anything do they??!!! generally night feeds are good with reflux babies as they are more relaxed and therefore it doesnt tend to bother them as much as during the day, if at all. They always treat from thrush, wtf is that all about?!! You KNOW when a baby has thrush, its immediately obvious in most cases ::)
Out of interest how do the scales work? Do you weigh your baby? Or your boobs!?? LOL 'scuse the ignorance ;) :-*
You weigh the baby before the feed, then after...that way you can see the weight difference and tell approximately how much the baby has had :)
Hugs Angela. Arthur's the same -- feeds brilliantly at night, but that's it. It is so frustrating -- I end up usually just letting him play for a bit and then try again 20 minutes later because I get so mad at him >:(
I also try to short-change him at night and it backfires (glad I'm not the only one :-[). He'll kind of nod off after one side so I'll put him down and he'll wake 2 hours later for the other side -- it's just so tempting when all you want to do is go back to sleep to say, "oh, he's done"
SNAP Kiran!
These babies eh? Maybe we should just donate them to charity and have done with it??!! :P
Thanks for all the hugs girls, lots right back at ya. We can hug each other and get through this together....GO TEAM! :-* :-* :-*
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Crikey thats a long post!!! :o ;D
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LMAO @ donate them to charity!!! Angela, you make me laugh!
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Am reading along with you here girlies as Ioan towards the end of a feed is fussy - but I know with him It's trapped wind and he needs a burp, which usually makes him spit up and get upset - he will then not go back on. He's also a fast eater, but I don't find it to be a problem as such.
He seems to struggle with the let-down at times, but not always - which I can't work out. At night he's definitely better, more relaxed and I don't always even have to burp him - totally impossible not to in the day.
So what that Doc said about Relfux is SO not true as Ioan has reflux too - it rarely bothers him in the night (phew!)
Angela - have you tried just pumping off the first few ounces to relieve your boobs as you say they're engorged? This would probably help with getting him to latch on and possibly help with the let-down
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Awel, I apologise for all my doctor-bashing, I know they're not all bad ;D
I had though about expressing before a feed and have done it when i'm REALLY engorged, but didnt want to make it a habit as I overproduce easily so in the longrun isnt going to do me any favours....I might start doing it again until he gets his act together though, at least he will be getting more hindmilk hopefully :)
LMAO @ donate them to charity!!! Angela, you make me laugh!
Glad I amuse you!! ;D ;D ;D :-*
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I had though about expressing before a feed and have done it when i'm REALLY engorged, but didnt want to make it a habit as I overproduce easily so in the longrun isnt going to do me any favours....
If I remember correctly, I think if you only express off an ounce or 2 at the most - it won't be a problem, I think I'm remembering that right :-\Awel, I apologise for all my doctor-bashing, I know they're not all bad ;D
LMAO - no apology needed Angela - it's one of my favourite pastimes, I particularly enjoy GP-bashing - you can ask anyone on here ;) :D
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Awesome, GP bashing is one of my favoutire pastimes too!! ;D ;D
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Hi Nicola,
The past week, I haven't offered a bottle after he refuses to eat from my breast. I figure he will just become dependant on getting that bottle afterwards. He seems to be getting a little better.. if he eats at least 3 ounces I know he won't starve :)
The scale is pretty accurate. I weigh him before he eats and then after he eats and it tells me how many ounces he consumed. I LOVE IT... but it is quite pricey to rent.. so I have to return.
I really think it could be supply issues too. It seems as if my breasts are so empty. The fuller they are the better he nurses.. who knows!
Regarding reflux. Once you were put on the medicin..e did that help:?
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Hiya
Jen ... If he seems to eat better on fuller breasts could you maybe do some expressing to up your supply a bit? Keep him interested. I would def not be offering the bottle either :) Regarding the reflux ... Callie has only every had 2 fussy feeding spells each lasting about 4/5 days, usually she feeds no bother. The fussiness had settled down by the time we got to the GP so I don't know if the meds would have made a difference to that but it certainly has to the spitting up. Even if I don't give gaviscon for one feed we get spit up whereas with gaviscon there is pretty much nothing. :)
Angela ... I can confirm that Awel does enjoy GP bashing. :) How's Josh doing today? Callie hasn't been feeding much but she had jags yesterday and these ones seem to have knocked her a bit.
Awel, Callie does the same with squirming/burping and won't go back on ::) sometimes she will go onto the other side though .. would Ioan do that? LOL @ these babies compared to Ciara and Elin.
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Josh had jabs yesterday too, snap! Never bothers him thankfully...it was the 3 yesterday, poor little chap :( He's fine though. He's actually been feeding really well today....has been doing the usualy 4min pulling off, but going back on when I rock in the nursing chair and hum to him ::) Due another feed in a min, will see if this one is good too!
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Good luck ;)
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That feed was a good one too! Long may it continue.
Hope Callie feels better after her jabs soon, bless then its not nice is it? Is she sleeping well at night? I though Josh might sleep through last night as he has done on the previous 2 occasions when he's had jabs...no such luck ::)
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I found this blurb on Jack Newmans website.. It sounds like me but doesn't really say what to do except make sure there is a good latch..
In the first few weeks, babies tend to fall asleep at the breast when the flow of milk is slow (this slowing of the flow occurs more rapidly if the baby is not well latched on, since the baby depends on the mother’s “letdown” or milk ejection reflex to get milk). The baby will suck and sleep and suck, without getting large quantities at this point, but the mother may have a letdown reflex (milk ejection reflex) from time to time and the baby will drink more. When the mother's supply is abundant, the baby usually gains fine, though he may spend long periods on the breast despite the mother's abundant supply. However, by the time babies are six or eight weeks of age, younger sometimes, many will start to pull away from the breast when the flow slows down, often within a few minutes of starting to nurse. This is more likely to occur in babies who received bottles early on, but can occur even without the baby’s having received bottles. The mother will then likely put the baby to the other side, but then the baby will do the same thing. He may be hungry still, and may refuse the breast, preferring to suck his hand. He won't get those extra letdowns that give him a few extra gushes of milk that he would have had if he had stayed on the breast. So he drinks less, and the supply also decreases because he drinks less, and the flow slows even earlier in the feeding (because there is less milk) and you see what may happen. It doesn't always happen this way, and many babies may gain even if they do spend only a short period of time on the breast. They may still pull off and suck their hands because they want more sucking but if their weight gain is good, there is no need for concern.
The way to prevent this is to get a good latch from the very first. However, many mothers are being told the latch is good even if it isn't. A better latch can help, sometimes even at a later date. Using compression will often keep a baby drinking (see protocol for increasing the intake of breastmilk by the baby).
ahhh.. Last week, I pumped after each feeding to increase supply. It seemed to help for a few days for then I think the supply has dropped again. But who knows... because the night and morning feeds are fine. It is the daytime feeds that are still the problem.
Has anyone tried doperimine?
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No personal experience with domperidone but as far as I can see its one of the safer prescription drugs to increase supply. Are you thinking of trying it then Jen? There are plenty of other ways to increase supply, noteably herbs which are safer. Take a look at this link:
www.kellymom.com/herbal/milksupply/index.html
Nicola, how are things today? Josh fed really well yesterday and today, but after his 3:30am feed this morning he wouldnt go back to sleep...it took myself & dh getting up with him until about 5am to get him back to sleep, then he woke at 6am but luckily went back to sleep until 7...i'm shattered! Think he was trying to poo, the damn gaviscon is really blocking him up poor little mite!He keeps doing this rather amusing grunting thing, you can tell he's straining bless him :P x
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Sorry to hear you had a bad night with Josh, Angela :-*
Ioan's had his first imms this afternoon and his 8 week check with the GP - asked about ranitidine, not happy to prescribe that without a referral to a paediatrician - we got some more gaviscon in the meantime. We've started making it up now in as little hot (boiling) water as possible - can get the both sachets into about 6mls and I can get Ioan to take that much by dribbling it in, takes a while but it does go in.
Do you all give the gaviscon after every feed? does it need to be given after every feed or can it just be as and when?
Ioan's having a VERY unsettled night tonight - but I think it's mostly the bottom end that's bothering him although he's refluxed quite nicely and puked over me earlier too - what a day he's having, poor mite :'( Feel like we're in for a rough night
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Hugs Awel, if it makes you feel any better we're having a crap time too! That bloody gaviscon, really blocks them up. Josh woke at 20:30 tonight (very unusual for him to wake after bedtime these days) was very upset, could hear his poor tum grumbling...gave him some gripe water which didnt settle him, so finally gave in and fed him at half 9. Hes VERY OT today due to all that awake time last night, hence has had about 1.5hrs total of naps all day, and is therefore even more ot! Its such a vicious cycle....so think the waking was partly ot, partly tummy ache. I havent given the gaviscon for the past two feeds because of this, has puked a bit but doesnt seem to have bothered him too much.
I always give Josh his gaviscon before a feed, and same as you Awel, in as little boiling water as poss...I use a 5ml syringe and just fill that. Goes in much easier if its before a feed, and seems to work just as well if not better tbh. If I leave it until after he pukes straight away so by the time the gaviscons in he;s already upset.....given before it pretty much stops the puking altogether.
Also, I dont do it with every feed...I usually just do daytimes and miss the evening/df/night feed. Its ok to miss doses as it has a cumulative affect so wont do any harm missing a few.
Hope your night isnt as bad as you think its going to be Awel, get some sleep while you can :-* :-* :-*
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Hello ladies! Been lurking on here for the past few days. Have had the same problems of crying at the breast. Lasted for four days. Now my LO is eating for shortened periods of time, the crying has subsided but my supply is down. I am hoping it has increased as I just pumped for 30minutes while I was reading your post and only got 6oz!
Thanks for posting everything that has been going on with you. It helps to know that others are feeling the same way and having similiar problems.
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Hello Hayes!
Sorry to hear you're having similar problems. Obviously a lot of ours have been due to reflux, but there are certain things that can mimic reflux, such as oversupply. Take a look at this link:
www.index.php?topic=107244.0
I actually though my lo was suffering from reflux at new year due to feeding poorly/vomitting etc...turns out I just had WAY too much milk, which can mimic reflux. He DOES have reflux, but its only just started to bother him, and our problems at that time were related to oversupply.
Another thing, you dont need to worry about pumping for 30mins and only getting 6oz. What you pump is NOT indicative of what the baby gets...babies are much more efficient than pumps! The part in BWSAYP where Tracy recommends doing a yield was actually reviewed and bw now realises that this is not a useful exercise. It would be quite unusual for you supply to suffer in such a short time, but if you are worried there are numerous ways you can increase it...but be careful, you dont want to end up with oversupply, thats not fun!
Here is a link on low supply and how to correct it: www.kellymom.com/bf/supply/low-supply.html#supply
HTH! x
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Hi Ladies,
My six month old is going the same thing! I am so happy I found this post. Overall, my situation is this: Curtis is 6 months old, and has traditionally been a good eater. At about 3 months old, he just wasn't satisfied enough with just my milk and a bottle of formula, so we started him on cereal once a day for about a month and a half. At that time, we got clearance from the doctor to up his solid intake, which we have.
Now, he's 6 months old, and LOVES his solids. His favorite activity during the day is eating his solids, and if we don't shovel it in fast enough, he freaks out.
For the past week, he has not wanted to take the breast at all. Even the slightest noise and he's off and looking. He also has a cold, is teething and is quite congested. Its all working against me. He was starting to sleep longer stretches before the cold hit. Now he doesn't really want to nurse during the day. He does want to nurse every 2.5 hours at night though, much to my dismay.
Like Nicola, I have a preschooler running about, so laying down all the time to feed won't work. I actually haven't tried that position in over a month since I have stopped brining him to bed with me during overnight feeds.
So glad to know I am not alone here. It looks like Curtis is one of the older babies of the bunch here. I've purchased a nursing necklace and I'm waiting for it to arrive. Hopefully that will help.
I have no supply issues. I have plenty of milk. I always use the cradle hold when feeding him. Now when I put him in that position during the day, he freaks out. I've seen you ladies talk about other positions, but I'm having trouble visualizing them.
I plan to keep a close eye on this thread.
Kris
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Hiya girls :-*
Angela & Awel my fussy feeder buddies :D, Callie was up the night before last for an hour after her feed. Unheard of!! She usually just goes right back to sleep. I just left her warbling to herself after checking she wasn't still hungry. Last night she woke at 1130pm after pooing ::) horrid, sticky gaviscon nappy :-X :-X Big feed so I thought she'd go til morning but nope she was up at 4am then up for the day at 7am. Needless to say she wasn't so hungry at brekkie so we've been on a 3 hour EASY today. She seems to be spending much less time at the breast lately. Definitely not draining it :-\ She has started to sometimes take second breast after 'finishing with' but not actually finishing ;) the first. Thinking she's just after the fast stuff ::)
I'm kinda regretting the day I said I didn't want my 2nd baby to be permanently attached to the boob like my first was :P
Gaviscon seems to be working fine for us. We mix it with some water then I usually add a drop of EBM then give her 5 mls. I try before feeds and get as much down her then as I can. If there's some left I try at the end. Are you guys using both sachets? We've never had tonnes of sickness or crying but the spitting up seems to have reduced lots and I can lay her down without her vomitting up feed now :D
Angela, I am wondering if the night stuff is more developmental. I remember Ciara sleeping thru from about 12 weeks - 16 weeks and then suddenly it all changed ... :o :o :o
Kris .. if you look on kellymom.com there is lots of info on positioning. Google feeding positions and you will get pictures too :) ((hugs)) sounds as if your baby has lots going on. Callie also has lots of stuffy nose issues and she struggles to feed when she is like that.
Guys ... I am loving this thread. So good for support :-* :-*
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I agree Nicola, great thread everyone seems to like it!
Sorry Callie is still being a little monkey! How old is she now? Josh had a mahooosive growth spurt at 14 weeks....its usualy to get one at 3months and 4 months, but Josh had his in the middle (was hard at the time, but saved having 2 I guess!).
Well, I have decided to forget the gaviscon unless it gets really bad again. poor Josh, he's so bunged up for the bloody stuff. I've posted on the couch as I needed some hugs cos he's a ot little monster atm!
Night before last after his 3:30am feed he was awake for 1.5hrs+ trying to poo. He was then therefore OT starting the day, so naps were TERRIBLE yesterday and he only had about 2hrs in total, all broken up. Therefore last night was awful too, he woke at 8:30pm, couldnt get him to settle so fed him at 9:30. Then he woke at 12:30. I comfort fed him. Then he woke at 2:30..changed his nappy and he went back to sleep. Woke at 4:30...gave in and fed him at 5:15. I dont think he went back to sleep until well after 6am. Then got up at 8am.
He's had one 10min nap and one 30min nap this morning, and went down again at 2pm...fingers crossed he actually sleeps this time or I might actually throw him out of the window :o :o :o
Maybe you're right about the night thing being developmental for Callie....not the case here I dont think, Josh has never sleeps through on a regular basis! I can count on one hand the numbers of times he has, and even then the latest he's been up is 06:30 ::)
Kris, here is another link on positioning to add to Nicolas: pregnancy.about.com/od/breastfeedinginfo/ss/breastpositions.htm
Awel, how was your night?
x
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Kris, here is another link on positioning to add to Nicolas: pregnancy.about.com/od/breastfeedinginfo/ss/breastpositions.htm
Angela, thanks for the link. I was going nuts on Kellymom because the link to the positions was broken. The saddle hold is what I was looking for. I'll give that one a try. From looking at the pic, Curtis may still be able to watch is big sister while nursing in that position and won't be locked into seeing my face or our ceiling. I know those are exciting to watch, but not a much as big sis!
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No worries Kris, hope it helps.
LOL! Let us know if the nursing necklace works.....think i'm going to invest in one myself. Josh love yanking at whatever is round my neck! I also have a Punkyfish top that has silver fish hanging from the zips....he seems very interested in these too, bless him ;D
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I tried the saddle position and it didn't work out logistically. My torso is too short and Curtis is too tall. :( I did hold him a little different than a traditional cradle hold, with his head more upright and he nursed better before his dinner. This morning was a battle. I couldn't get him to nurse at all until Daddy and Liana left the room. Then he just bobbed on and off for a couple minutes until he was done. He took an ounce out of a bottle after that. I know he was hungry though b/c he ate all his cereal and fruit for breakfast. An hour later, he nursed okay before his nap. (I know, not EASY, but heck, he's been asleep for almost 3 hours). I'm going to have to wake him soon so we don't continue to perpetuate the night feedings. I think his tummy is really getting day and night confused. He was up to eat nearly every 2.5 hours last night after his first stretch of sleep of 3.5 hours.
I've got to break this pattern. I can't wait for the nursing necklace to get here. My scalp is patiently waiting for the necklace too since my hair is getting pulled out all the time. Hopefully he'll find the necklace more fun than my hair to eat and pull.
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Angela-
Thanks for the info and helping me to keep my head on straight!
What do you ladies think about my LO not wanting to eat in the morning? He is on 3-3.5 easy 7-7 with df at 10 wakes at 3ish for a very small feed then up at around 7 and doesn't want to eat. I am not always full (sometimes squirting other times not). Some days he doesn't eat well until 1 and other days he will eat well at the second feed. I have a toddler and have attempted different positions, dark quiet room and a few other things. I have expressed milk in am then tried to bottle feed and he will take 2-3 ounces sometimes. He seems to like to eat for a short amount of time then off to play and smile. I do my best not to make eye contact but the bugger has such a nice twinkle in his eyes.
Hope all is well with everyone and feedings are going better.
Hayes
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Kris, how are things today? Hope you're ok, I know its hard believe me! Does your lo have a dummy btw? And does he regularly take 3 hour naps...generally its not recommended to let them sleep for more that 2hrs at a time during the day as it takes away from their nighttime sleep...maybe I misinterpreted what you wrote? :P
Hayes, glad the info helped. How old is your lo again? If he's not hungry in the mornings and isnt even taking much milk from a bootle there's not an awful lot you can do tbh, other that just let him have what he wants and hope that the other day feeds are better. If you let us know how old he is maybe we can make a few more suggestions. Josh's first feed of the day is often the shortest, I think mainly because he's still feeding in the night and he doesnt really need to at his age! Luckily he's feeding much better in general this past few days, and last night was better too. So take heart, things WILL get better!
Nicola and Awel, you girls ok?? :-*
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Curtis usually sleeps for 45 minute naps. The 3 hour nap was an abnormal, and figured he just needed the rest and was hoping he turned a corner. He took another 45 min nap later in the day and was up at 11, 2 and 5 to eat overnight. He was up for the day at 7.
He's had 2 - 45 minute naps today.
He does have dummy. Sometimes I can get him started sucking on the dummy and then substitute the breast to get some food into him. He's not nursing well again today. He's had a few ounces from a bottle today and nursed some, but not a ton so far. BUT, we have had company the last couple of days and things are finally quite again.
I think I'm going to try to re-institute the dreamfeed tonight since he's been waking to feed about 4 hours after first going to sleep.
Hayes - my LO doesn't always eat in the AM too. The best luck I've had (today and yesterday), is to try and nurse him before leaving the nursery. Before any other stimulation has gotten him distracted, preferable before he is fully awake. Its a fine line though as if I try to let him play in his crib too long before getting him, he already doesn't want to eat. Is your LO awake for a long time and playing already in his crib before you go and get him?
How are all the other LO's doing this weekend?
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Night before last after his 3:30am feed he was awake for 1.5hrs+ trying to poo. He was then therefore OT starting the day, so naps were TERRIBLE yesterday and he only had about 2hrs in total, all broken up. Therefore last night was awful too, he woke at 8:30pm, couldnt get him to settle so fed him at 9:30. Then he woke at 12:30. I comfort fed him. Then he woke at 2:30..changed his nappy and he went back to sleep. Woke at 4:30...gave in and fed him at 5:15. I dont think he went back to sleep until well after 6am. Then got up at 8am.
Only read this first post so far but Callie was the same last night. Up at 1150pm for a feed :o then up again at 230 am as usual. I could NOT believe I was hearing her. She wasn't hungry just talking to herself so I left her and she got unswaddled so wouldn't settle. Did some sh'ing and she settled down but woke again about 30 mins later so I fed her. Then up at 517am and back of 6! I didn't get up either times (think she settled down ;)) and up at 8am. None reflux related ...
off to read rest of posts :)
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Kris, what easy routine are you on, sounds like it could perhaps do with some tweaking as I dont think it is very common for a 6 month old to need feeding that often at night? And 45 min naps are a sign he's undertired and ready from more awake time. Also perhaps the cereal is making him windy, it quite often causes digestive problems in lo's this young. Have you posted on the easy boards or night wakings board? Can he sleep independantly or does he need the dummy to go to sleep....you may need to think about getting rid of them :P
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hi- a similar thing happens to me... he is eating fine on one side. then we go to switch to the other side and all of a sudden he won't eat anymore and it seems like he is in pain. he is really hungry and keeps his mouth open like he wants to eat but keeps on crying and crying. i put him up and burp him and try again and the same thing keeps happening. we go on and on like this but he gets almost hysterical because he is still so hungry. i spend an hour doing this or more. sometimes he will eventually eat from the first side again but never really gets enough to eat so i end up feeding him less than an hour later. i am exhausted!!! this usually happens in the mid-afternoon feeding and early evening. otherwise other feedings go fine for the most part. any ideas??? oh the little guy is 7 weeks old.
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Katy,
Is it always the same side that he doesnt like? Could be that there may be an oversupply issue on one side.....i've had that problem with my right. They get fussy if theres too much there and it comes out too quick!
Another thing to consider is earache....might not like lying on the side because it hurts. Have you tried holding him the opposite way around, i.e the rugby hold...that often tricks them in to thinking they're on the other side as they're lying the same way IYKWIM!
HTH x
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I'm kinda regretting the day I said I didn't want my 2nd baby to be permanently attached to the boob like my first was :P
Lol Nicola, I'm the same! I wish Arthur would comfort suck once in a while! Poor guy had his jabs on Friday and has been terribly fussy since then.
He's really driving me nuts. He hates my right boob and I'm now getting noticeably lopsided.
Glad the Gaviscon is helping with the bubs. Arthur just spits up no matter what we do. I've given up -- I'm just going to buy some industrial strength bibs.
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(((Hugs))) Kiran :-* :-*
He's not a formula baby yet then?
Crying at the breast sucks. Not sure how it feels when your baby is crying at the bottle for similar reasons, but I wonder if it is harder psychologically when you are breast feeding. When Callie is fussing and crying I find it so hard that I can't pass her over to DP, I wonder if I've eaten something, if I'm holding her properly etc etc etc. Now I am not an anxious person, things like that generally don't bother me, kwim, BUT it kinda goes to the core doesn't it.
(((Hugs))) to you all my lovelies :-* :-*
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Wish my LO ate like the first one too!!!
Angela-my lo is 12 weeks. I just put him on a 3.5 easy that starts at 7and he seems to be eating better. The morning feed is still iffy. He has a df at 10 and sometimes eats in the night. Thanks for your encouragement.
Kris- great advice about feeding in the nursery before other distractions get to him. I tried it yesterday and it worked wonders. I am working on training the 3 year old to be busy during that time.
Sending good eating hugs to everyone.
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He's not a formula baby yet then?
He's getting VERY close! Not yet though. Every time I'm really tempted, he eats fine for awhile. I know what you mean about taking it personally. I can't help but think it's something I'm doing wrong. I think if dd hadn't been such a boobaholic, I would definitely think it was me and I would have given up by now.
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Dont give up Kiran, you're doing great!!! I'm sure it will pass. The fact that we're all having similar problems is a sign you're not doing anything wrong! I think its developmental. My lo is the eldest of this lot by a few weeks...his phase seems to be passing, and he even sttn the past 2 nights :o ;D
Hayes, glad things are improving. Great move to put him on a longer easy, he's obviously hungrier therefore feeds better, which is what i would have suggested anyway.
Keep up the good work ladies! :-*
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From reading your posts and doing some research, I think we have figured out that Curtis' issues are due to reflux. We had him at the pedi yesterday and she prescribed some Zantac. She said it may take a couple of days to show a difference and about a week to take full effect.
That said, he refused to eat before bed (7:30), but half woke up at 8:30 and did a semi-dreamfeed. He dreamfed at 10:30, a couple of ounces. His cries were SO much different last night. Granted he's added babble to his crying now, but there was no shrill of pain. He typically nurses well overnight, and in the early AM, but not hearing the pain in his cry is promising.
We'll see how today goes. I have to work today, so he'll be at daycare. Hopefully he'll do better drinking from the bottle and get the right amount of milk.
I'll let you know what happens.
Angela, my easy routine is a mess b/c I'm just trying to feed him as often as I can to get SOMETHING in him. However, I do usually keep him up about 2.5 hours between naps. Sometimes he doesn't make it to 2.5 hours and sometimes he doesn't show tired until a little longer.
Hayes, I'm glad the little tip on nursing before leaving the nursery works for someone. It only worked for me 2 or 3 times.
Nicola - crying at the bottle feels the same as crying at the breast, at least for. I tried to see if it was the breast he was objecting so I tried to nurse - no luck. Then I tried EBM in a bottle - took an ounce. Then formula in a bottle - took less than an ounce. Then I tried EBM with a spoon - he took it. Have you tried to see if she'll take EBM in a bottle, at least to get through this rough patch?
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Kiran, LOL @ boobaholic. In your avatar Arthur looks like butter wouldn't melt! ;) How's things at the moment?
Kris, Callie won't take the bottle ::) Things are good with us at the moment though :) Little bit of crying at feeds again today which she hasn't done for ages. That is how the last GS started so I am wondering if it will bring lots of fussiness again. Kiran, remember the 3 month growth spurt when ALL our birth club babies were fussy at the same time. SO funny!
Kris, I really hope the meds do the trick :) Except for the 2 seperate episodes we've never had that much bother with crying/pain but had lots of spitting up after feeds. The gaviscon seemed to work pretty much right away. I am hoping it is the same for you.
Awel, ((((hugs)))) hope Ioan has settled down :-*
Angela, how's things without the gaviscon.
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Hey Nicola!
Well, thngs arent so good without the gaviscon, I can tell he's in pain when he feeds again and he cries which is so sad. But it seems once he's got over the first 5 mins or so and I manage to get him back on he will feed ok. Cries at the end of feeds too but I just try to distract him and he seems ok. Puking still but not as much as before. Bless him!
Glad Callie os ok...Josh wont take the bottle either! He used to, but then I stopped and now if I try he looks at me as if i'm mad LOL ;D
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My lo is the eldest of this lot by a few weeks...his phase seems to be passing, and he even sttn the past 2 nights :o ;D
Angela, your words may just have saved Arthur from being kicked off the boob -- I now live in hope :)
Nicola, glad to hear Callie's doing well. I hope if she has another growth spurt it's not too bad. This is all so new to me because Sophie never had growth spurts!
Kris, hope the meds help. I know they helped Arthur -- they stopped him screaming in pain, but didn't fix his bad boob manners.
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Nicola, glad to hear Callie's doing well. I hope if she has another growth spurt it's not too bad. This is all so new to me because Sophie never had growth spurts!
I never noticed any with Ciara either, although things did go a bit screwy around 4.5 months so I think I only noticed the consequences LOL.
Well, I think I spoke too soon. Callie has been fussy on the breast last night and this morning. Crying, not feeding then lots of wimpery noises when she is not feeding. Poor soul. She has been feeding more often during the day and we now have a midnight waking :o (instead of usual night feeding rather than in addition to - so far!) so I am wondering if we are the beginning of the GS now. This is exactly how she was around 12 weeks with the last GS. Going to make sure I give gaviscon before and after feeds and keep my fingers crossed.
I will keep in my mind that the fussiness passes. It is nothing I am eating. She is not rejecting me. I will not threaten her with bottles ;)
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She is not rejecting me. I will not threaten her with bottles ;)
;D
:-*
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[ I will not threaten her with bottles ;)
Lol! The threat wouldn't work with Arthur -- he loves the bottle. I can't believe how opposite he is to his sister. Sophie absolutely refused the bottle, but I swear Arthur's eyes light up when he sees one in a way that they never do when he sees my boob.
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LOL Kiran!!! Little devil ;)
We are definitely in growth spurt territory now. Callie has fed all day until there is literally nothing left. Nothing. I squeezed both nipples and .. nothing. I feel shattered!! Going to start some pumping tonight to get supply right up for her.
Fair bit of crying at feeds today. Not sure if it is just growth spurt fussiness or whether it is reflux related but either way it is SO good to have some inkling of what is going on and that it will pass. Much better than last time. I posted on reflux board about connection with gs, so will see what they have to say.
:-* Love to you all.
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Kris, hope the meds help. I know they helped Arthur -- they stopped him screaming in pain, but didn't fix his bad boob manners.
boob manners ;D Cute.
I posted on reflux board about connection with gs, so will see what they have to say.
reflux board? I'll have to look for that one. There are so many boards here, I can't keep up.
I have definitely noticed a difference in Curtis since getting meds. While he is still fussing at the breast & bottle, the biggest change I notice is his cry. He doesn't sound like he's in as much pain. I stopped fighting him to get on the breast. He's starting to sleep better too.
He was only up once last night to eat (3:00). At his age, he shouldn't be up, but its certainly progress from where we've been. I got him up at 7:15 and he nursed himself awake and did get a decent feeding in. He napped better today too. After 1.5 hours this morning, I had to get him b/c we had a playdate for big sis. I nursed him awake again. At least he got a couple ounces in w/out a fight.
Next, I need to work on his boob manners & I think I'm going to try a cup with EBM to see if he'll at least take some while having his meals and we can practice during playtime too.
If I'm able to get him right when he wakes like that, I think he'll be on EAEAS, with the second E being for solids. We'll see.
I notice you ladies talking about gs too. Well, we may have been having one of those for the last month since he's gained 2.5 pounds since the beginning of January! So, I know he's not starving.
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Reflux Board
There's the link. You need to be a 24/7 addict to keep up with the boards ;)
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Kris, so glad the meds are helping. I noticed the same with Arthur. He's still fussy, but he stopped doing the "pain cry." Now, if only I could get him to stop chomping down on me. Is there medicine for that? ::)
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Now, if only I could get him to stop chomping down on me. Is there medicine for that? ::)
Well, what I have found with both kids is that if they chomped down, they are not hungry. End of feeding session. If I think Curtis IS actually hungry, I try again a little later.
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Good point Kris!
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My goodness, the crying has def started again :'(
Night feeds are erratic, 1115pm and 330pm last night and she wants to feed more so I am thinking growth spurt but, like last time, lots of crying and pulling off. *sigh*
This time, I KNOW it will pass in a few days so just have to stay sane until then.
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Oh Nicola, i'm so sorry to hear that...big hugs to you sweetheart. I hope it passes quickly for you and you make it through with your sanity intact! You will look like Jordan after all this feeding, just like I did! :-* :-* :-*
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You will look like Jordan after all this feeding, just like I did! :-* :-* :-*
Better than the tennis balls in socks that I am currently sporting :P :D
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;D ;D ;D
I'm so having a boob job after this LOL :P
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yup, mine booked
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I'm going to go all out and actually give Jordan a run for her money. Are you with me?
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Indeed, why not?
I'll try for beach ball size. Maybe I'll even try beach ball colours ;D
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oooh ooooo if you're going for beach balls, i'm gonna go for birthing balls....with tassles on the end!! ;D
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*belly laughing*
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Thanks for making me laugh, Nicola and Angela :) I needed it!
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Our pleasure :P
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Nicola - just a thought too....if the popping on and off with crying keeps up and heads back to the pain variety again, it could mean you need a change in reflux meds. Zantac worked for us for a few days (partially), but it all came back, and only got better once we switched to prevacid. Sometimes you just need something a bit stronger....
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Nicola - just a thought too....if the popping on and off with crying keeps up and heads back to the pain variety again, it could mean you need a change in reflux meds. Zantac worked for us for a few days (partially), but it all came back, and only got better once we switched to prevacid. Sometimes you just need something a bit stronger....
I agree. Curtis is SO much better now that he's on Zantac. If he pops on and off, its more b/c he wants to see what's going on, w/out the arching back and screaming. He's like a new baby. Its amazing how much cuter they get when they start eating and sleeping better :)
What you are describing sounds like what I was going through before he started the meds, and he's only been on them for 4 days! The change started within the first day.
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Erin and Kris, thank you both :) Really interesting. The crying hasn't been too bad. She is feeding lots and taking good feeds and for the most part the crying has gone again. Really very strange. I am definitely going to keep an eye on things and head back to the GP if anything seems to be worsening.
How's everyone else and the bubba's? All stopped fussing? ;D ;)