BabyWhispererForums.com
SLEEP => Sleeping For Toddlers => Topic started by: momtonb&ab on June 28, 2010, 20:01:51 pm
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Please see http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=165030.435 for the previous thread which has been locked because it hit 30 pages!
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Marking my spot! :)
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I think my 15 mos old is trying to transition to 1 nap, slowly, but surely. We were at 1 nap for a month until we posted on here about NW's for 1-2 hours at a time. We returned to 2 naps and magic! DS is now sleeping 10 hours at night (no matter what time we put down it's 10 hours only), waking around 6/7am, awake for 3.5-4 hours, nap at 9:30/10am for 1.5 hrs, awake for 3-4 hrs, nap at 3:30/4pm 1-1.5 hours, awake 3 hours, bed at 8. I try not to let him sleep past 5pm so he's not up late. Generally he wakes up at 6am, but sometimes it's 7am. When that happens, obviously our day moves an hour back for everything. This is a little difficult when I am trying to transition from 2-1 by 15 min increments. So my question is do I stick to a time schedule (ie he goes to nap at 10am no matter what) or do I stick to a total time schedule (ie he goes to nap 4 hours after he wakes up)? Right now I am going with length of A time, unless he's super tired for some reason, and pushing A time farther by 15 mins every 3rd day, decreasing S time in pm nap and decreasing A time before bed. Does this sound right? Thanks!
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oops my spot. Just starting out.
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We're all over the place at the moment, we had a few really good days of 1 nap but seem to have gone back to 2 now, although yesterday my friend was looking after him and he refused his nap all day and finally went to sleep in the car when I picked him up. Our nights were really great for a week or so, still STTN consistently but we're getting shorter night - still not bad though and I don't think I could really say it's EW so not complaining!
Just don't know whether to just 'go with it' as far as naps are concerned at the mo or try and get him back on a set routine again.
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Don't ask me I have no idea!
We are currently working with one long (1.25-1.5hr) nap and one short (45min) nap but I am struggling with the A times to go with it. We are only getting 10hr nights so do I make days 14hrs to take up the slack or do 13hr days in the hope he will take it up instead? Do you guys do set bedtime?
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Our bedtimes are fairly set except when we have a short nap day and then its early to bed (or an EW). 14 hrs seems a very long day. If it were me and wakeup time was 6am I would do bed no later than 6.30 to see what happens. Our DS is quite high sleep needs and has never done really long A times..we are on 4 hrs 30 mins at the moment.
Our son's day starts at 8am at the mo which works really well for a nap at 12.30 for 2hrs 30 mins but the last A is always the shortest - about 4hrs. We have stumbled upon this routine and its working well - 13hr nights and 11 hr days. Don't know how it happened but not complaining. we started getting long uninterrupted nights as soon as we switched to 1 nap. he'd always been a good sleeper but would wake quite early.
Hope this helps!
Nell xxx
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But I keep doing 13hr days and BT just gets earlier and earlier until EW is so early I treat as NW and get him off again and a later wake up and start all over again! I tried a few one nap days but got NW if did more than 1 in a row so don't think we are ready to go cold turkey. I would love 13hr nights!
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I think you need help from someone who's more of an expert...sorry! I'm not much use. Interested in your replies and will keep watching xxx
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I wish I could help too but I have no idea what I'm doing either!
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Just budding in here. Am wondering of how you get to 1 nap a day from 2 naps. We are doing 45 min AM nap and long PM nap. My original plan was to reduce the AM nap time gradually until I could drop it. Well, there is no way I can wake this guy up before 45 min. And even then he still keeps sleeping in my arms with all the lights on, radio on, etc. Just really doesn't want to wake up. So is there a different approach? I read in BWSAYP that Tracy suggests to push the nap further until 2 becomes 1 but I don't really understand what she means. I also can't see Hayden having a shorter A time between the naps, he just wouldn't go down.
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Well after expecting a 2 nap day yesterday, we had a 3 hour nap instead and then he was really cranky before bed so early bedtime - I was expecting a early wake up as he never goes to bed that early but he still woke at 6.30/7am which is usual and meant he had over 12 hours! It's great but not consistent.
At the moment I'm just letting him sleep as long as he wants for the first nap which is usually 1.5 hours but occassionally 3, if he only has the 1.5 hours then i put him down for a 2nd shorter nap, but he will sometimes refuse this (which sometimes leads to OT).
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Thats a good night Catherine!
Have you ever tried doing a short am nap and long pm? We had to switch to that when we started the 2-1 transition Then we had a few days where we couldn't do the am nap as we were out so we just did the pm nap earlier and longer and thats eventually how we switched to 1 nap. We were forced to really as DH takes DS to church sunday morning and so am nap is out for sundays. We would get him home, try to get some lunch into him and then put him down for a long nap. Then we noticed he would wake later on mondays and put 2 and 2 together....had to take a leap of faith on nursery days but its working so far.
Still don't know what we would do if he woke early one day! Dreading it! I suppose we would do an earlier long nap and earlier (and prob OT) bedtime?
Thats been our experience anyway! HTH's someone
Nell xxxx
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Have you ever tried doing a short am nap and long pm?
No, but will give it a go if things dont settle down a bit, although the only real problem (as we're still getting good nights) is how 'difficult' he's being sort of late afternoon at the mo - however not sure if this is just a phase or if it's down to OT. The other problem is on days that I am working (3 days a week) he is with my sister or my friend and it just wouldnt really work if they couldnt put him down until later, and he'd probably then be sleeping when I pick him up. At the moment if he has only had a 1.5 hour nap in the morning then he will often take his pm nap in the car when I pick him up (up to an hour), although he seems to be refusing to sleep in the car more and more now. If I am at home all day with him I have no trouble getting him to have a pm nap if he's only had a 1.5 hour am nap.
Today he was with my sister and did one long nap again (seems to be a thursday and friday thing! :) ), it was about 2.5 hours I think. He was grumpy this evening again but we had been stuck in traffic so he'd been in the car for over 2 hours so this could explain the grumpyness!!! Had a slightly early night, will have to wait and see what sort of time he wakes.
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Its not straightforward is it?!
What time did he wake today? It seems normal (reading back on this thread) to have some days 2 naps and some 1 nap at first I think. It does get complicated when you are halfway between 1 and 2!
Hope today is going well,
Nell xxx
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Usual time again this morning (between 6.30 and 7am, but closer to 7 :) ) so that's good. Grumpy again today but LOADS of teeth coming through and lots of tantrums - not sure if it's a 'toddler' tantrum thing or a teeth thing, both I suspect. He's now having his nap, coming up to an hour and a half so this is the point where he'll either wake or go on to have a nice long nap again! I'm really hoping for 1 long nap again, it means bedtime can be a little earlier and hopefully wake up tomorrow as usual.
I had also seen that it seems normal to have a mix of 1 nap and 2 nap days.
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Thats great! Glad today is going well apart from the tantrums and grumps. We are getting tantrums here too lately - not fun, I think ours are toddlerdom and the heat.
Poor oliver - hope he cheers up soon! And hope he has a good long nap today
N xxx
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Thank you! I think we're on for the long nap as we've gone past that 1.5 hour mark :) Yay! My 'me' time begins here....!!
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Catherine, what time do you do that am nap?
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Well it varies as he's not with me all the time, and TBH it doesnt seem to matter as long as it's within 11.30-12.30, 4-5 hours A time. He did just under 2.5 hours yesterday and we had a 13hr night! Not sure how today will go though, had a major screaming session earlier - teeth :(
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What a brilliant night's sleep - especially with teeth trouble! xxxxxxx
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I know, I'm just waiting for our luck to run out....!!!!! Another 2.5 hour nap today. :)
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What sort of A's were your LO's doing when they started the 2-1?
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Hi, I did post on the old thread but not been on here yet.
So we're a mix of 2 and 1 nap days. What determines it is the time D wakes. If it's 6.15-6.30 or beyond then it's a 1 nap day, if he wakes earlier or has been awake in the night (got loads of teeth moving around!) then it's a 2 nap day. I'll lways try him with 2 naps regardless, drop his pushchair seat back and pull the hood over on the way home from school. But if he's woken at a decent hour then he doesn't need it, just lies there chilling out!
I think this is going to be a looong process here as D has always been an early riser, 5-5.30 was the norm for a long time. Once we get consistent 6.30ish wakeups then we'll be permanently on 1 nap.
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It's all gone to pot for us! :(
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oh no you were my biggest hope Catherine!
We are just going with the flow a little since nothing I do is helping. i feel like we could be ready for 1 nap if we had longer nights. I am doing W2S to try to get out of these 5am wake ups and after 3 days we have had, 5.20, 5.40 and 6.40 so maybe we are getting somewhere. I keep offering the second nap but sometimes he refuses it and sometimes like yesterday it was only 20mins. Do you guys wake them from nap 1? If so at what point?
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Khalams Mama, I'm guessing you're doing long am and short pm nap? We're doing the opposite, which I find suits us a lot better. A quick 20 mins on the way back from school and he can make i through till about 1pm when he'll then have a long nap.
If you're doing long am, what time is he sleeping till? And if he's sometimes refusing that second nap, maybe it's time to start pushing that first nap out so it's closer to the midde of the day?
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We're still getting good nights (no NWs), generally 11 hours, sometimes more, but not as great as they were a couple of weeks ago. But he's not sleeping very long for his nap, now only 45 mins some days which is obviously effecting his wake up and making him very grumpy for the afternoon - he will usually go down for a second nap, but on days I am working this time falls whilst we are in the car, which is a 45 min journey so perfect time for a nap, but he seems to just refuse to sleep in the car these days. But whether he has a second nap or not, it doesnt seems to make much of a difference to his wake up the next day. The best nights were when he was having a 2-3 hour nap. :(
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I am doing long am and short pm yes. He has been EW for ages so it he usually naps about 3.5hrs after he gets up but this can be anywhere from 5-7am so nap is variable. I have done a few 1 nap days with early BT but he gets NW instead or aswell as EW so I don't think it is time to switch completely. Toady our day has looked like this so far:
5.30am wu
8.40 nap (He just laid down and slept normally I don't put him up until 3.5hrs A)
10.40 wake up.
4pm nap
Will aim 45min and BT will be 8ish. I try to keep this consistent but 6.45 or 7 if 1 nap.
This last nap is so close to BT but he won't go much earlier. For his long nap he will take 1.5-3 hrs if I let him. I capped at 1.5hrs for a week or 2 but it didn't make a difference to his nights. He rarely refuses the second nap it is BT and EW that are plagueing us. Any advice welcome.
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Have you tried short am and long pm? I've also kept the nap times fairly rigid-well, we're goverened by school runs anyway and it works for us.
Our day generally goes:
A 6ish
S 9ish- on the way home from school I drop his seat back and see if he needs to nap. He didn't today, but on the days he does I cap it at around 20-30mins.
S 1pm for as long as he needs but I have to be out of the house by 3.05-3.10 for school
BT 7-7.15ish
On a 1 nap day I'll usually get him in bed at more like 12.30-12.45pm as he's really ready for a sleep.
This works for us. Early wakings, I have no idea what to do, we've always had them and just accept it. When he wakes we leave him for as long as poss then when he really starts protesting we bring him in with us and he'll play, sit and chill out, watch tv, etc.
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I am not used to early mornings we used to have a lovely 8-8 routine. I have always avoided short am because I read that if they have short A in the am they do better with long am nap short pm and also activitywise long am suits us better. But I did give it a go today.
Last nighht I had a NW at 2.20am for 1hr 10 which was annoying. I did W2S at 4.30 and he slept until 5.40 and then went back to sleep util 7.4O when DH got up. This set us up for a better nap day so we did 50mins at 11.10 (A = 3.5) and he has just gone down now at 3.15 for a second nap but it seems kind of late. Normally I avoid sleeping after 4pm. He went down ok at 3pm (A = 3hrs) though was disturbed by some rather handsome firemen knocking to offer me a free fire alarm and took a bit of settling and finallly went down for good at 3.15pm. To be honest he didn't seem that tired but it was getting late. I might aim for BT 8.30 as a 10hr night will give me a 6.30 WU which I need as I am back to work tomorrow and this would give us a 13hr day.
Do you think it is a problem if we alternate long am/pm? I know likely it will be, but it would be nice to have some flexibility.
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Anyone still out there?
We had a 6.50 and a 5.50 and a 6am the last few days. The 6.50 was after a short ama nd long pm nap though may be coincidence. TBH I give up! Tried short am this morninga nd he went back to sleep on the sofa after I eventually woke hima nd brought him down which he has never done. He then slept for 2 more hrs. i let him because he is teething 3 molars and I wondered if he needed it as he is normally wide awake as soon as I walk in. I hope it will not mean an EW.
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I am! Just have no idea what advice to give you, I think we are just winging it at the moment and are lucky. We're having 1 nap days generally now, but it's anything from 45 mins to 2.5 hours, if it's shorter then I tend to do an extra nap later but he seems to be doing 1.5-2 hours these last few days which is fine. nights are a little shorter than they were but still around 11 hours so definitely not complaining!
Sorry you are still having a rough time with it, wish I could help :(
Lovely on the fireman visit tho! ;) We had this recently, but I had 3 handsome firemen!!! When I came back from the weekly food shop the fire engine was parked outside my house, I live on a MASSIVE hill so had to park away from the house and struggle with DS and all the shopping - until the lovely firemen in question felt sorry for me and bought all my shopping from the car for me!! ;)
How did last night go? Did you end up with an EW?
xxx
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Khalam's M - I am still here and wrote you a long reply to your july 14th post and then when I tried to post it something went wrong and it was wiped. Didn't have time to do it all again as was heading to my folks for the night - sorry!
The general gist of it was that we used to alternate as to which nap was the long one depending on what we had to do that day. 2 days a week were nursery days so the long nap was pm on those days but rest of the time changed. That was fine until we started to get EW's around 1 year old and the advice on here was to do the same with naps every day so things stabilized a bit. we tried but tbh it was hard some days.
Sorry things are still upside down for you! And its almost impossible to get into any sort of routine when teething is going on. Usually teething alone is enough to cause EW even though naps may be going well. When we were going throught the bout of EW I mentioned we did do W2S which seemed to work for us.
EW are soul-destroying aren't they? I felt so down when we had weeks of 5.30am wakeups especially as it was in the depths of winter and so dark.
Am always checking in to see whats happening even if I haven't got time to reply. How did it go last night/this morning?
Bram has canines coming through and has teething symptoms which we never seen before - nights are either fine or just 1 NW for meds and in the daytime he is hot, angry, not hungry and has horrible nappies that leak!! Ugh!
Hugs,
Nell xxx
Ps - don't know your name - sorry! x
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Thanks guys. Not to hassle you. Just feel better knowing I am not the only one not getting it perfect.
Lovely firemen helping with the shopping. When my MIL moved house once we were carrying some furniture up the stairs to her 1st floor flat and they came to help usfrom the station a few doors up. How nice!
This morning we got up at 6.30 but he was awake 3 times between 3 and 4 am and I had to medicate. I fed him because he was so upset but he kept coming off and crying then when I got him to sleep I would be back in bed less than 10mins and he would be awake again really crying. He seemed to wake crying rather than the fussing turning to crying we usually get with OT so I am sure he was in pain. After the calpol kicked in he slept 4 til 6.30. So not too EW but less than 10.5hrs sleep in total.
Today he was off his food. Kept putting it in his mouth then spitting it out and at one point cried hard like he had really hurt himself while eating. We went shopping this morning and I thought he would take a short nap in the buggy but he took 1.5hrs then he seemed tired after only 3hrs but I was cooking dinner at my Mums so took a while to take him up. He was a little OT but went down ok considering it was at his nana's house. He took another 1.5hrs. It sounds dumb but my mum's clock stopped and I lost track of time eating my dinner so I didn't wake him earlier. I still had to wake him at 1.5hrs though so he must have needed it. He went off ok after 3.25hrs A this evening at 8pm. I guess I will see what happens in the morning and if the long naps will come back to haunt me.
Lynds
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Arr...poor little guy. He is really suffering. Hope tmrw is a better day for him xxx
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Last night he woke at 10.40 and took 15min to settle and at 4.20 I fed him because I was tired and couldn't face more PD but he went down ok after 10mins and sure he fell asee soon after as I didn't hear from him until morning. He only asks for BF sometimes and it was so hot last night I am sure he was thirsty although he took a full one sided feed. But I then had to wake him at 7.05 to get him ready before I went to work which is the first time in ages he has slept after 7am without being awake for hrs in the night.
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Thats good news!! : )
N xx
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That's great, glad you are getting some success finally! xx
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We are ranging between 5.55 and 6.40 wake ups last few days. I must say the later wu's seem to come when he has more rather than less sleep which makes me wonder what I am achieving by nap cutting. The days he has less naps he doesn't sleep any more than 10-10.5hrs he alwasy dose and then he just ends up with less sleep overall in 24hrs. After 3 weeks of 45min and 1.5hr naps we aren't really any better off so i am going to try something else. In Tracy's book BWSAYP she says let them sleep for the main nap slowly working it later and if they need a cn let them have a short one so I am going to try moving the am nap later, letting him sleep as he wants and then a v short CN to keep an 8pm BT. Today we did this:
5.55am WU A = 3.75hr this is usually 3-3.5hrs
9.40am nap (2hrs 40)
12.20pm A = 4hr 20
4.40pm CN (20mins)
8.15pm BT
He went down well for all sleeps.
Am I mad? I guess we will see.
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I don't think you're mad KM. We used to do the same thing for the most part with DD. Her days were often:
W: 5:40 am (ugh she was stuck at this exact time for ages)
S: 9:30-11:30
S: 3:30-4
Bedtime: 7:30
You'll just have to see as it doesn't work for everyone. DS will happily take a long AM nap but then is way cranky after the short PM one and early wakes the next morning. So for now I'm doing short AM (20-30 minutes), long PM (2 hours tops) and bedtime 5 hours or so after PM nap (as long as it was at least 1.5 hour nap or more). He seems in a better mood this way and wakes a BIT later the mornings (usually 6:35/6:40 instead of 6:10 or so). This morning he woke 6:10, napped 8:55 (fell asleep on stroller during my exercise walk with friend) until 9:23, then napped 12:35-2:35 and shooting for 7:30 bedtime.
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KM, sounds like you're doing well, it's such a balancing act isn't it?
We're steadily getting towards consistant 1 nap days. Sat, yesterday and today so far this week. Sunday would have been a 1 nap day too but he was woken early by his noisy broher!
And with the 1 nap days, longer nights are appearing too! We're now getting 11 hours or so, waking at 6.30ish as opposed to anytime after 5-5.30 which we had for soooo many months!
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Lynds - good luck with your new routine! Hope this works for Khalam....
Con's Mummy - glad things are gradually going in the right direction for you!
Nell xxx
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It has all gone a bit wrong on the nap front in that I have returned to work and DH and my Mum are not so good at controlling for A times or waking up from naps so we are kind of going with the flow. We are getting variable wake ups. interestingly we had 45min naps and late BT's over the weekend while we were away and he slept in until 7.45 and one day I even had to wake him at 9.15! i don't know it would work long term though. We are getting one 1.5hr nap and a 45min nap most days but sometimes more and sometimes less. It doesn't seem to impact the EW much. If I do w2s he will get up later but it doesn't last so i can't keep doing it forever.. I did it for 1 week.
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I am new to this discussion, and I do appreciate seeing everyone's journey on this 2:1 transition. It is also encouraging to see those who are finding success, so thank you! My DD (14 months now) has been a pretty good sleeper since birth, so we have been quite blessed. However, about 2 weeks ago, she started refusing her p.m. nap for at least 4 days in a row. I took this as a sign that she was ready to move to 1 nap. We had a couple of rough days where she only took 1 nap and was a little OT before BT.
She has also been waking up between 6-6:30 rather than her usual 7. She has been able to tolerate a 4.5 hr A in the a.m., but then sleeps for 1.5 hrs, rather than her usual 2. The afternoon is then variable (sometimes no nap, sometimes naps). After reading your posts, I am trying out a 30 min p.m. nap and will see how it goes. She used to be a regular 9-10:30/11 and 1-2:30/3 napper, so we have significantly cut her sleep time. I am worried she isn't getting the sleep that she needs. I am also unsure how to push back the a.m. nap further, since her wu time is earlier and she is pretty tired by 11am.
Any thoughts??
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Hi hsunuks,
I think it's a case of trial and error, really. Some favour short am long pm nap (that worked for us), others do the opposite. And yes for a while till you figure it out she will be a little short on sleep, but they are more resiliant than we give them credit for and can handle it for that short time till things settle down again.
We are there with the transition, and it was pretty easy in the end. Now he wakes anytime after 6, goes tot the bottom of the stairs and points at around 12.45/1 (very cute!), sleeps 1ish till 3 ish and is in bed by around 7.15.
However I may jig things around soon. Since we've been on holiday and he was going to bed later (8-8.30) he's not been settling at night quite so well. not sure if this is just him settling back down after being away when we sat with him while he went to sleep, or whether he needs a bit more pm A time.
I'll keep things as they are until DS1 goes back to school in a couple of weeks and see how things are then.
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I see it's been awhile since anyone posted here. I am having a hard time with the 2-1...if anyone can help, please let me know and I'll fill you in on what's happening! Thanks!
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Hi,
I'm new here, but it seems like I have a familiar story. My DD is 13 months and is a great sleeper, settles herself for night sleep and her naps. About a month ago she started resisting her afternoon nap, and after 4 failed attempts at a nap in a row, we decided that it was time to move to one nap.
On a good day it works fine and her day looks like this:
6.30 am - wake up
7 am - breakfast
7.30 am - breastfeed
9.30 am - snack
10.30 - sleep (4- 4 1/2 depending on wake time) - sometimes can be closer to 10.45
12.45 wake
1 pm - Eat
1.30 - BF
3.15 E
5.30 E
5.50 - Bath
6.20 - BF and stories
6.30 - asleep
In 3 weeks time we move to NZ daylight savings time so I plan to keep the same times but maybe make the bedtime 7pm (current 6pm). sleeps longer with earlier bed.
However, we do get the odd EW and on days where she has a quieter morning, with no morning playgroup, she will only sleep for 45 mins. I try and give her 10 mins to resettle, but sometimes she won't. Plus she can be grumpy when she wakes. On these days I try and give her an afternoon nap but she can be very resistant to this but will occassionly sleep in a stroller. Days like today when there's a storm outside are tricky.
I'd like to get a consistent 1 1/2 to 2 hour nap - any tips for this? She really needs that long middle of day sleep. activity seems to be key and I wonder if on the no playgroup days when she sleeps less if she is undertired? she's not quite walking yet, but have others found this helped?
I have tired doing a short am sleep, but this gives me a grumpy OT baby. She seems to prefer a shorter PM sleep if a 2 sleep day.
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Mjaz- I've also been having a hard time w/my almost 13.5 month old. want to swap stories? What's been happening with you?
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Sure! Well, we had a really tough month - vacation, teeth, etc...he was an OT mess and we had a few weeks of really tough NWs. We got through that and it became obvious to me that we were in the 2-1. So...I was trying a long am/short pm routine and that worked brilliantly for about a week. And then the morning am nap went from 1.5 hours to 30 mins and seemed very OT, even though the A time was the same. So it looked like:
wake: 6am
A: 3:45
S: 9:45-11:15
A: 4:00
S: 3:15-3:45
A: 3:15
asleep: 7
With some advice on these boards, I have started to try the short am/long pm routine...but A) he doesn't like to be woken - he's always a grump and b/c of that I HATE doing it and B) I can never get the middle A time right. So today looked like:
wake: 5:45
A: 3:26 (was shooting for 3:45 and he passed out right away!)
S: 9:11-9:49 (was going to wake him at 45, he woke at 38)
A: 3:30
S: 1:19-2:24 (would not go back -total of 1:05)
asleep: 6:30
I think nap 1 was UT and nap 2 was OT? Ugh. What's going on with you?
Melinda
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Hey Melinda,
Sounds pretty crazy. I'm not sure how helpful I can be- I myself am new at this and obviously trying to figure out the same thing...so take whatever I say like a grain of salt! Sorry if it's a bit discursive. I'm really tired and tried to be as lucid as a I can...but no promises!
I would say first- obviously you have to trust your motherly instincts b/c you know your child best, but make absolute sure that your LO is ready for the 2-1 switch. I had a false alarm a couple of months ago and I thought my LO was ready...but really all she needed was an adjustment in her "A" time, and once I changed it, she happily went back to 2 naps.
If you are absolutely sure that your LO is ready, would you try aiming for just one nap? That's been my goal with my daughter. Maybe if you focus on one nap (which will hopefully be longer, and therefore more consolidated and rejuvenating sleep), your LO will eventually adjust and feel less OT? I think in general with these transitions, it takes time for their little bodies to adjust...I also, btw, agree with you. I would never wake a sleeping baby...
I never aim for a cat nap. I personally think cat naps are a waste- not really rejuvenating for the baby at all since they're so short! I don't even know if the cycle through a complete sleep cycle in that time. I hear the purpose, if it will keep your child from having a meltdown, but if your child can handle the day without it, why bother? When your LO is overtired, is he very cranky?
Another thing- my older sister (who has 3 kids) told me that when going through transitions, it's always tough for at least a few weeks until the baby adjusts (and that has been my experience to, with previous sleep transitions). So with my LO for example- she's not quite ready to give up 2 naps, but she definitely does not need 2 complete naps anymore. I think she'll ultimately adjust to being awake for a longer period of time in the morning, but I keep telling myself it's just going to take time for her to adjust to it. The gap between not quite needing 2, but not quite ready for one is the torturous transition that hopefully will pass quickly!!! Being able to go with the flow is absolute key, I think (my husband always has to remind me of that!!!) But make sure you're giving your LO enough time to adjust to a new routine. It sounds like you had been doing a great job with routine before- so it probably will be somewhat difficult for your LO to all of a sudden change it up.
Here's what has been happening with my daughter. She had been a great napper- 2 naps every day for about an hour, sometimes more each. She also is a great night time sleeper- 12 hours almost without a peep!
Within the past month, her napping has gone bonkers- she could take her morning nap but if she did, no chance of any afternoon napping (she thank G-d puts herself to sleep- so I do a nap time routine and put her in her crib awake...she then will sometimes cry for a few minutes, then settle down to play for a bit and eventually fall asleep. On days when she took a morning nap, for about 2 weeks, she would not fall asleep when I put her in her crib at what I felt was the "right" time for an afternoon nap (I waited 2 weeks to rule out putting her down at the wrong time- OT or UT...so unless I kept getting it wrong for 2 weeks, I knew she was ready to switch things up to one nap. I also wanted to make absolutely sure that this was legit and not due to something else).
The issue I've been having is mainly that I find she keeps collapsing from tiredness! I work part-time and have her w/a baby sitter in the AM (until noon). I think that I'd rather keep my LO up for the whole morning, and get her to take a nice nap sometime around noon. I think that time makes a lot of sense (I think 11:30am would make more sense...but I'm not around at that time to enforce it!) And then she'll be up for the rest of the day until bedtime. The reason why I want to do it like that is because if she's awake for so long in the afternoon, I have a harder time at bedtime. It's definitely not terrible, but I think she'll feel better with more spaced out sleep.
She's not a cranky baby and handles herself really well- I just hate having her fall asleep from what seems to be exhaustion...and I don't know how to fix it! I just can't figure out when I should be getting her to nap and how to avoid what seems to be the impending exhaustion! I have been second guessing myself a little bit about whether or not I'm doing the right thing...but I don't see an alternative right now! I just don't think she would catnap, and it wouldn't be worth the struggle to try! I hate being that mommy with the baby who just collapses...I just keep telling myself that this will pass and everything will work itself out. I carefully monitor her sleep patterns every day to see if something sensible emerges...I'm still holding out and hoping it will....
Another thing that I also find to be very important that I learned only after much frustration with napping- "you" cannot force a child to do anything- you can only create the conditions that will enable the desired outcome (akin to "You can bring a horse to water, but you can't make him drink). I just keep telling myself that I can't force her to nap, I can only offer her the appropriate conditions to help facilitate a nap taking place.
what do you think?
SBekritsky
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Hi,
Don't mean to butt in, not sure if I start a new thread or not... here it goes...
Alex is 15 months old tomorrow! Over the last 4 weeks, I've been struggling with the AM nap. He still needs it and so do I! I have a 4 year old who gets home from school at 1ish winds down to nap at 2pm - which is what Alex did as well when the AM nap was 9:30-10:30am. So the 2pm nap routine worked well until now.
If Alex catnaps at around 10am then, I can get him down at 1:30/2pm with Jack (4 year old). However, he is impossible to get down in the AM until around 11am then he is ready but, that's too late because then he won't go down later in the day. Like today, he slept from 11-12:15pm, ate lunch picked up brother and then I kept my 4 year old up just to help me keep Alex entertained which wasn't good because Jack needed his nap too. ARGH!
My question is, how do I get Alex down for a quick 10am catnap? He is SO hard to put down. Lately, I've been running errands or going to the gym so that he'll catnap in the car. However, I can't do that every day and I'd like there to be some consistency.
Here is what he used to do:
7:30am WAKE and EAT
9:30am - 10:30 SLEEP
12pm EAT
2pm SLEEP
7:30 (now 8pm) SLEEP
Thanks for any advice as to how to get through this transition!
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This is where I am at right now with my 15.5 mth old:
7:15 Wake up
10:15-10:45 1st nap (wake at 30 minutes)
2:30-4:15ish 2nd nap (usually between 1.5-2hr nap)
7:45-8:00 Bedtime
I've noticed that Tanner's A time in the morning has gotten less! He is so tired way before 3 hrs! But then even after a short 1st nap, he can still go nearly 4 hrs for his 2nd nap.
I'm so happy that he is napping well RIGHT NOW, because when he is awake, he IS A BEAR. Teething (2 eye teeth just popped through the other day), and he is NOT a happy guy...fits galore. Very unlike his personality. I need every minute of sleep from him in the day that I can get! lol
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Hey there,
Does anyone have experience with getting to the point of only needing 15 or 20 minute nap in the morning to make sure the pm nap happens? This seems to be where we're at. She wants 4 hours A after a 30 minute nap now, and we can't squeeze it all in with that. Just wondering if I should bite the bullet and try for one nap, or keep this little cat nap in the morning. Anyone in the same boat or been there?
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hi sparrow - i haven't been there - just now starting to think about cutting the a.m. nap cuz she's refusing the p.m.
but on the "baby" 2-1 board there were a few moms who were down to 15/20 min. naps and i think they kept them because it helped with scheduling lunch - one mom said that without that little cat nap her dd was too tired to eat lunch and then wouldn't nap well. something to think about.
dd has never been a good napper but lately she's taking a nice 1.5 a.m. nap and refusing the p.m. nap. like the pp she is soooo tired by 3 hours A time in the morning but then can go all day - we end up going with a 6/6:30 bt since she's waking from her first nap by 10:30 or 11. it's crazy! and the last 2 hours she's such a bear - so tiring. i don't really feel ready to tackle this right now but i guess she is! :P
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hi there, I'm suspecting my DD is going thru 2-to-1 but I do not see her issues here on this board...
I just returned to work and she's staying with my dad. The first few weeks was great, but now she's having problems with naps.
Her old routine:
wake up at 6:30am
Nap 1 at around 10am or later for 1 hour
Nap 2 at around 3pm for 1 hour
BT at around 8pm
But recently, she is staying up longer and longer before Nap 1. She doesn't show sign of tiredness until 11:30 or later... and today even though she was tired at 11, she refused to go down until 1pm! and still only nap for 1 hour.
Because her nap 1 is delayed, there is not enough time for her to nap again before I leave work, hence she has to nap in the car for 30 min from 4:45 to 5:15.
When we get home, I need to make dinner/feed her/bath her/BF her... by the time we lay her down it's about 7:45, and it's getting harder to fall asleep (usually until 8:30) I tried earlier BT around 7:30 but she refuses (probably because she woke up from nap 2 at around 5pm?)
One of my biggest concern is it's almost impossible to get her nap more than 1 hour.... where everyone else on this forum naps for 2 hours when transitioned to 1 nap! I don't know how to get there!
Also, she's slept thru the night since she was one month old. but recently, she cries at 3am for 30sec-1 min or so.. also she used to wake up at 6:30-7:30.. but now she wakes up at 5 if I don't do W2S...
I think she's definitely OT by now... but I don't know how to help her! espeically I need to convery instructions to someone else (my dad) to help her transition or extend nap....
pls help........
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Hey everyone, it seems like we all have alot of questions and no one really has any answers!
We too are going through the 2-1 transition, where DS is not quite ready for 1 nap but is difficult to get him down for 2. Currently (most days) we are doing shortAM/longPM because he refuses the PM nap if he has more than 45mins in the AM.
Since he started walking his A times have dropped back a bit, so this is helping me get in the 2 naps, because in the morning a typical A time is only 3hrs (used to be up around 4!) and then the A times get longer throughout the day, and especially the last A time before bed is the longest because he gets the big afternoon nap and seems to need a full A time afterwards before being tired (and like last night ends up refusing BT and eventually becomes OT ::) )
I'm not sure if anyone has any ideas on how I might stop the BT refusal as I really dont want that to become a habit! Currently only having about 2hrs DT sleep in total and not sure if i want to cut that back as we do seem to be constantly on the verge of OT...
Our typical day goes:
7am wake & BF
8:30am Breakfast
10:30am Sleep 30mins
11 up and Playtime
12 Lunch
2:30pm Sleep 1.5hrs
4pm wake & Play
5:30pm Dinner
6:30pm begin WD routine, wash, change, story, BF and Bed
7:30pm Asleep
I'm going to read back through the posts now and see if I can contribute to someone elses questions...
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Cathy - Do you think he would be ok with one nap earlier yet? My only thot is that he might go down for BT better if he was up from the longer nap earlier? I "hear" they eventually learn to tack on more time to their only nap.
I'm sure hoping that will happen for DD. She won't take a second nap no matter when I cap the first one so I've just stopped trying and we're going cold turkey. I honestly don't know what else to do and we have awful NWs. I've tried every APOP in the book - nursing, driving around, cuddling. Just won't fall asleep. I'm just hoping she'll "learn" to sleep past one hour for her only nap...
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Hey Jaci, recently we have done the occasional one nap day like that, where he has had a long nap just before and over lunchtime, but he cant sustain himself to do that everyday right now.
I think the more recent BT (and nap time) refusal is due to teething as the times i have administered some pain relief lately he drops off within 10mins. Its confusing though because his nap "refusal" isn't crying, it's just dancing around in the bed for an hour or so. Which can easily be taken for UT, but just through some trial and error i've found that it isnt! Right now he's happiest on 2 naps of about 1hr each (thats what happens if i let him sleep without capping the first nap and actually manage to get in the second nap somehow) or i cap the first nap at 30mins and then get 1.5hrs in the afternoon.
I think the teething and walking is encouraging the second nap right now too some i'm happy to stick with two naps for a while yet! As much as I enjoyed those consistent one nap weeks we had back when he was 11mo, those days seem like a wee way off yet.
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Hi Cathy, so do u mean u moved back to 2 naps after trying having only one nap?
I'm concerned my DD is suffering from OT as her NW has worsen ALOT in the last two days... She rarely or close to never NW before..... Wondering if we should move back to 2 naps... Bt simlar to Jaci, my DD seeps UT for AM nap....
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lokloktang - how old is your lo? how long is the nap? what made you go to one nap? Ella never did STTN but her NWs are considerably worse now so I'm wondering if it is teething after all and not truly ready for 1 nap.
She was doing 2 1hour naps and was going down for her first nap by 2.5/3 hours! Then all the sudden she would just cry and cry for the first nap and after an hour or so I'd try again but then it would be so late she would refuse the second nap. So I just started moving the first nap out to 12 p.m. so that at least the one nap she did get was later in they day. With a 6/6:30 bt she's up several times at night - sometimes only a few minutes. But last night 45 from 10:30 - 11:15. I'm really confused. I'll get her settled and think she's asleep and then she's crying again.
Tom. I already have a morning commitment so it will be another one nap day, but I think after that I'll just give ibuprofen an hour before her usual morning nap (or used to be usual!) and see if that helps. Ugh - this is no fun!
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Hi lokloktang, yes we did go back to 2 naps after being on one nap for quite a few weeks. Around 11mo he was quite able to stay up for long stretches and he was ok doing one nap and short days (wake at 8 or 8:30am one nap at 1230 for 1.5hrs then BT at 6 or 6:30) this went on successfully for quite a few weeks with little or no NW but then he got a virus and rash and got severely OT and then once he got better he started walking all the time and now he can barely stay up for 3.5hrs at a time! So we have gone back to 2 naps until he seems ready for bigger A times again.
Yesterday we did a one nap day, he slept in a bit late, and then was having trouble settling for his first nap (until i administered teething meds) so it was 11am by the time he fell asleep and he slept on and on till 1pm(!) so i thought he would be ok for a few hours... but that was a mistake (even with an early BT) we had so many NWing last night I lost track, so we wont be doing that again for a while! Definitely not ready for one nap days (anymore!) even with a huge nap like that. In fact today his sleep needs are so high he's having 2x 1-1.5hr naps! I hope he's just catching up and wont be too UT tonight. ::)
I think the best strategy right now is to do a combination of one and two nap days to balance out the sleep needs over the week to prevent OT in the long run.
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Hi ladies, haven't read back through all your posts yet but joining in here as Cadan is turning 1 on Monday. We had been frequenting the babies' 2:1 thread but will soon be too old!
We often do 1 nap days of 4.5/3/4.5 or there abouts. We normally do 2 nap days when out in the pushchair and Cadan falls asleep early and only take a 1hr20 nap. Then I have to let him have another 25-40min nap later in the afternoon with a short 2hr-2hr45 A afterward before BT. The one nap days seems to be working well but only happen if I am home for his naps which I am finding quite restrictive. Plus we often attend a playgroup which is 12.30-3.30 and that is exactly the time he naps!
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Hi everyone! Following in Ali's footsteps since our babes are close in age. We just did our first nap day yesterday as my DS took a 3hr morning nap. Totally unheard of and I think his A time was low, but I could be wrong as he did have an EW at 5am. He fell asleep or so I thought for another 1hr15min which would make A time of only 3hr45min before his super long nap. Had a huge lunch after nap with a lighter dinner and his last A time might have been too long (nearly 5hrs). We had loads of NWs with one lasting for 45min before midnight. Hopefully we can get back on track today and figure out the best routine for us. DS was severely OT last week and trying to recover.
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We did a 2hr nap today (our 1 naps are usually 3hrs so this is short) with a 6hr A before bed so expecting OT NWs tonight perhaps.
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Hi ladies. How is everyone doing?
We are doing 1 nap days mostly now. We were doing 4.5/3/4.5 but it seems to have moved to 4.5/2/5/5 lately. Not sure why it has shortened. I tried a longer first A but it shortened even more to 2hrs and he woke crying the few times we did it like he was still tired.
Although today he woke 1hr15 early this morning (OT) so we did 5/3.5/4.75 with a normal BT. Hopefully he has caught up some and will do a good night.
We are STTN now for up to 12hrs.
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Sooo....I've been on here before, back when my son was 14 mths and thinking he was transitioning to 1 nap. But here we are, at 19 mths and still on 2 naps!! BUT, the last 2 days have been ROUGH sleeping days and I feel a change needs to come. Here's our schedule on my non work days:
7:30 Wake up
10:30 Nap (wake him after 15 minutes)
2:00-4:00 Nap
7:30 Bedtime
This has been what we do on my non work days (I work 2-3 days a week)
This was Today:
7:30 Wake up
11:00 Nap (finally, after playing around for a long time)..woke after 15 minutes
3:00 (FINALLY asleep, after playing around for awhile)
4:00 AWAKE from nap (and very cranky)
8:15 FINALLY asleep (went down at around 7:30)
I know he's on the shorter amounts for awake time but it has worked well for months and months. But obviously he's ready for more, so should I just cut out the morning nap totally? Or what would you suggest for a transition?
My work days are a TOTALLY different schedule since he has to get up at 6.
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I might join in too. DS is 11.5 months and has always fought sleep, so judging whether to transition him has been very difficult.
Over the past 2 weeks, we have been doing one nap on many days. He STTN a few times early on, and now is waking 1-2 times per night.
About 2 weeks ago, he had a 3.5 A time first, then a 2.5-3hr nap, then a 20min catnap (which i woke him from), but BT was getting later and later, and he fought it. He also fought the 2nd nap. I tried to cut back the first nap, but it seems he has done this himself.
His current EASY is:
6.45 wake up, BF
8am breakfast
10.45/11am - BF and nap (usually 1.5 hrs, today 2hrs)
1pm - lunch
5pm - dinner, bath
6.30/6.45pm - BT
He has suddenly gone from 3.5-4 A time, to 4-6hr A time. He doesn't seem overly grumpy either (and he is a touchy/spirited baby).
I dont know whether the NW are him being OT. He doesn't stay awake long, but only last week he was having none to one wakeup per night. Could be teething, although the BT meds have not helped much.
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Lori, have you tried stretching that 1st A time to see if he will take one long nap? What does he do on work days? I think you need to take that into account too as OT builds over a few days. Does he just have a shorter night on work days or do you put him to bed early in anticipation of the early WU? Is there anyway you could get on the same sort of routine for work and non-work days even if the Wu time is different? i.e. have the same length A times and number of naps?
Rizzo, I think your last A time is way too long and if you aren't going to do a CN then an early BT is needed to stave off the OT. He wakes himself up right? You don't cap that 1 nap do you? Could he be waking hungry possibly? Perhaps it might help to do a snack or half lunch before his nap? How is he when you put him down for the nap at 4hrs? Do you think he would sleep longer if you stretched this a little? Otherwise I would do a CN at 5pm just to get him to BT. I expect the NW are from OT from such a long A time before BT.
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Ali, One reason I don't want to get into the same wake up routin on work days and non work days, is because on work days I have to get him up at 6 and that is NOT a time I want him to be getting up everyday. He usually has 2 longer naps at the baby sitter to catch up on that sleep.
So this morning I stretched his A time to 4.5hrs (not unheard of as he has done that in the afternoons a lot). Well, he just woke up at 1hr20minutes....he has NEVER slept for that short of a nap in a long nap. So now he is up at 1:45.....Great! See how long he lasts till night time....
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OK Lori (sorry, let me know if that isn't what you wanna be called) so he has less night sleep on work days and catches up with day sleep? I don;t blame you for not wanting to get up at 6 everyday. I was thinking of just keeping the naps the same even with the earlier wake up but not a good idea if he has had a much short night as you seem to have decided. Hmmm. I guess you probably agree that that A time this morning was too long and he was OT. Could you try stretching it in smaller increments? I would probably do a super early BT at 6.30 or 6.45..?
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I will definitely do an earlier bedtime tonight, especially since he will be up tomorrow at 6.
I'm not sure what happened with the nap. He didn't seem fussy beforehand or anything like that, which is weird since he usually naps at 3 hrs in the morning. Seemed normal and went down easily.
I'll have the baby sitter stick to the normal 2 naps the next 2 days and then on Thursday-Sunday, try to just extend his A time in the morning.
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Thanks Cadie's mum.
He has done a few days of having a big sleep (2-3 hrs), waking at 1pm, then bed at 6.30pm, and then having none to 1 wakeup during the night.
Yesterday I tried to shorten the first nap to 1.5hrs, woke him at 11.45am, another nap at 3.30 for 45mins, woke 4.15pm, eventually bed at 7.30pm (wouldnt go sooner). Woke at 10pm, 1.30am and then 5am (which he hasnt done for a long time).
I am guessing it must be something else causing wakeups.. maybe teeth? He is due for some more to come through...
His EASY today (after 5am!!) was:
6am wake (had BF at 5am), BFast 7am
Nap 10am (BF 9.30am) - 3hr nap, woke 1pm
1pm - lunch, BF 3.30pm
Dinner etc 5pm
Tried to get him to sleep 6.30, didnt sleep till 7pm.
I cant win!! a 2 nap day = 3 wakeups, a 1 nap day = zero to 2 wakeups...
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So we're back! :P I had thot we were switching to 1 nap about 3 months ago but she was just going thru a strange "nothing is working" phase and then suddenly decided she LOVED naps! First time ever and I really enjoyed it! But last week she started taking longer and longer to fall asleep and then suddenly refused the second nap over the weekend and since then we've had very strange days from being out an about - and lots of NWs! Ugh! Yesterday was better:
7 A
11:45 S
1ish A
7:30 S ( I keep trying to put her down earlier and but DH isn't helping... going to be very firm tonight tho!)
So with a little less than 1.5 hours of nap she cried out at 10 and 3 but didn't actually wake up - I didn't even make it to her room to check on her before she resettled. So that's good - I'm just hoping with an earlier nap today (put her down at 10:40) she'll nap longer. Really jealous of all the 2-3 hour naps you all are getting!!! :)
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Jaci, oh that is SOOOO my son! He is 19 mths now, and at around 13 mths he HATED sleep, and fought naps, and I thought we were going to 1 nap, then he started asking to go to sleep and was soooo easy just to plop down and he'd roll around a bit and then just fall asleep. But now it's changing back to being difficult.
I hope we can get a long 3 hr nap when we are at 1 nap!!! I still have a 4.5 year old who takes a nap (man, am I lucky or what) so it's nice to have a bit of a break!
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Ugh! Had such an awful night! Hasn't been this bad in months! Up at 12, 3, and 4 - basically for the day! I held her off and on from 4 to 5 but finally gave up and let her play quietly in her room but by 6 she was antsy and hungry so up for the day. Finally down for a nap by 9 and hoping she sleeps at least 2 hours. I hate this! I was just getting used to STTN myself after an awful first year! :P Hoping we get 2 good naps today. She's just soooooo much happier with more sleep - and ofcourse I am too. :D
Lori - are you starting just one nap yet or still just dealing with the nap resistance? Would be great it LO2 tooks cues from LO1, huh? ;)
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Jaci - sorry to hear about your horrible night. We are there too with multiple NWs every night regardless of what I do. Just wanted to mention, that the 2-1 trans for babies is alot more active and there are a couple of us with toddlers who are creeping on that board as there might be more advice. Just FYI. Not saying this board isn't great or the right one, but the other is much more active if you are in some desperate need for help. Here is the link:
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=185113.0
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Jaci, We've had 2 days of 1 nap only. Yesterday was only 1.5hrs and he was TIRED and cranky. Today, he is currently sleeping and it's been almost 2 hrs. He was SOOOO tired before nap time!
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Lori - yeah for a 2 hour nap! All my LO EVER does is 1 hr. 20 min.... Which is OK if she's still taking two of those but today after the awful night (she probably only got a total of 9 hours of sleep) she did 1 hr 20 a.m. but then only a 30 min. p.m. I think it's a combo of OT and teething tho - poor thing.
Oanh - thanks for the advice but I've been "gently" reminded 2x that that board is for "babies" so I gave up posting there. ::) It is nice that it's more active - maybe I'll just read thru it... :)
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Hi all, looks like we are here now. DD2 is 15 mths and a great sleeper, for the last 4-5 mths our schedule was:
Wake her at 7:15
Nap 10-11:30 (I wake her)
Nap 3-4:30 (she usually wakes up)
Asleep at 8:15
We have had a few days where she didn't fall asleep for the 2nd nap till 4 pm, then bedtime was about 8:45. Yesterday, she never fell asleep at all for the 2nd nap. So I am initially trying to limit the 1st nap to 1 hr and hopefully get a 2nd 1 hr nap.
Any tips on getting her to nap with big sis who goes down around 2ish? I have been putting them both down then for months and it just takes DD2 longer to fall asleep. I am wondering if I could try not waking her and letting her sleep till 8ish with one nap noon? Then I could put big sis down a bit early and still have some work time (I am part-time at home).
It is scary waking her now from the 1st nap without being sure to get a 2nd one! She was so tired last night and I didn't get her to bed till 7 pm, over 7 hrs from a kid who has never done more than 4 or so for A time. Its hard with 2 kids to get dinner and get her to bed much earlier than that.
Do I just move to one nap when she consistently refuses the 2nd nap? Or shorten the 1st nap to less than 1 hr?
Thanks!
Aileen
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I would shorten the first nap to much less than 1hr so that she can take an earlier and hopefully longer 2nd nap and get an earlier BT too.
You may find if she is used to being woken at 7.15 she will naturally wake then but it is worth a try if you wish to shift your day later.
What about something like this?
8am WU
10.45-11.15 Nap1 for 30mins
2-3.30/4 Nap 2 for 1.5-2hrs
7.30-8pm BT
Hopefully she will do a longer night if she gets less sleep in the day. But be careful she doesn't get OT.
HTH
And just to update, most days we are doing
7.30 WU
12.30 - 2.30/3pm
7.30/8pm BT
I let him wake naturally as long as it isn't after 3pm. If I let him sleep after 3pm he tends to wake at 4 or 5am and be awake for a couple hours!!! Even if I do a late BT.
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Ali - do you think the EW is more from a shorter A time or a longer nap? We keep getting a 5/5:30 wake up time no matter when I put her to bed - anywhere between 6-7:30 (although usually 6:30). Today she napped for almost three hours - has not done that since she was a baby. But she still seemed ready for a relatively early BT and was asleep by 7:30. I have no idea what to expect for tomorrow!
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Ali - do you think the EW is more from a shorter A time or a longer nap?
I think it is from having the sleep too late in the day. Even if he sleeps say 1.30-3.30 and goes to bed at 8.30pm after his usual 5hr A time he seem to have a waking in the early hours. I think if he sleeps too late he still needs the same 5hr A time to be tired enough for bed but if BT is then too late it makes his day too long and he is actually OT. Sometime it is because he sleeps too long, over 2.5hrs is too much these days. Our ideal naps are 12-2.30 or 12.30-2.30/3pm.
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Hmmm... must be cuz after that wonderful nap from 12-2:45 and BT at 7:30 she was up from 3-4:30. I've been a wreck so I just kinda lost it and DH had to step in - still took a while but it makes me so mad that she'll settle for him easier than for me. And I think it was UT cuz she was talking sometimes - usually if it's OT it's just crying.
So today it was a whopping 1 hour nap from 11-12 so back to early BT. Such fun...
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Oh Jaci, I hear you on DH having the magic touch. The other morning I spent from 4.30 til 6am trying to resettle DS before finally waking DH (who was due up at 6.15 anyway) and withing 15-20mins he was back with DS sleeping soundly. DH even then turned on our power shower and extractor fan which are quite noisy and DS didn't even stir.
I am sure it is from the days of BF at night, they remember and hold out for it with us.
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Jumping over here as Lewis is over 12 months now. We're back on two nap days for now (after sickness) and he's waking up too early (about 630/645am) to do one nap days. I probably need to cut his day time sleep but haven't been due to him having a vomiting bug that lasted a week and just about getting back on track!
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I also wanted to come over to this thread. My LO is now 13mts and we are getting some 2 nap days and some 1 nap days.
2 nap days are usually when he is with Granny and 1 nap days with me. I usually AP half way through his 1 nap while his DD is napping and I get some nap time too!!
I usually get EW's most days which wakes DD so this is where I am at! 5:45 am today and DD is still asleep so today is good!
I look forward to following along here!
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Lulu - That was the problem we used to have when ds1 was an early waker. We'd always take him straight into our bed so dd didn't get woken up. Had not to get into bad habits when there's more than one of them!
Lewis took ages to go to sleep this morning and thought we were going to get an am nap refusal. He was asleep by 1030am and it's an hour later now so will let him sleep as long as he wants and hopefully get a short nap in later. I might even go shopping with him! My Mum has just taken the eldest two to her house for a couple of nights as it's half term. Aren't Grandmothers great!
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Popping over here too. No one nap days yet here (touch wood).
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Coming over to the 12+ months side too I suppose :)
We're having a rough go at the moment. Some one nap, some two nap days. Yesterday he had one nap for 2.5 hours, maybe too long or too long until BT as we were up from 9:30pm-12:30am SCREAMING everytime I tried to leave the room. I also thought maybe we're dealing with some SA. He really wanted me to hold him, and I gave him some tylenol incase his teeth were still bothering him but it didn't seem to do any good. After being up for 3 hours in the middle of the night, up at 5:30am :( so only 8 hours of sleep. I was so hoping that we'd sleep in with the long time up last night.
Going for two naps today to see if we can avoid a long A before BT. I need to figure out how to get back on track for sure!!
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Aww bless him Kim. I'd put him down nice and early and try and get two good naps in after a night like that.
We had a one nap day as he just wan't going to sleep in the pm. Although I left him at home with dh while I went shopping and he forgot what time I said to put him down. When I called and said I was on way Lewis was still chatting in his cot so I told dh to get him up as it was getting too late for a nap. He went straight down at 6pm. Selfishly I didn't want him going to bed too late tonight as I want to go to fat club!
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Back to catch-up later...... :)
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Ooo lots of new faces welcome.
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great to see all the new faces - the more the merrier!
kim - unfortunately we've had lots of similar nights - not quite as bad a 3 hours. but we also never get a sleep in when there's a late bt or bad nw - no such luck. i also thot it might be SA or teething.
today i found out E has an ear infection and - without going into detail - it seems like she's had it for a while. so now i'm second guessing all my thots on why the bad naps etc. for the past week. they like to keep us guessing huh? you'd think with being sick she would sleep more but not my baby - 3 half hour naps. that's it. awake now an hour after bt and dh is with her.
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I don't think my dd can comfortably do one nap day with only 10hrs nite just yet.
yesterday's was our first attempt, extended her 1st A to 5hr15, and she fell asleep while I was changing her nappy. Woke 40min into her nap and went back to sleep with a little prompt from me, OT I guess, and she only sleeps 1.5 total.
we went out in the late afternoon and she couldn't help falling asleep in the car with a piece of bread in her mouth, at 6:30...for 5-10min then we reached home.
BT was 8:30, took her 30min to fall asleep so I guess it was that 10min nap.
last nite was better than the previous 2 naps UT nite, only one NW at 2:55, for 10-15mins and she was back to sleep, no crying. woke 6:45 this morning.
So today I am giving her a break, she is ready for nap at 4:15A, I guess I'll give her short am and long pm as we are staying in. I hope this is the right move.
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CC - It will be very hard for your dd to go to one nap if she's only sleeping 10 hours at night. My ds1 was a 10 hour night sleeper and it took till 18 months to get him onto one nap. It's a lot easier to get them onto one nap if they'll sleep a good 12 hours at night.
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Well that goes for my LO then! 10.5hrs at night, with a 5.30am wake up and 2-3 NWs at the mo. Still don't know what the real deal is since she's been ill for 6 weeks.
So I've got the evening to myself and guess who's playing in the cot supposed to be asleep for the night?
::)
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Amy-when did your LO stop the EW or how did you help it?
Kim-sorry to hear about your night I hope things get better for you tonight. Hugs!
Cc- it was a good try. I just went for it with my Lo one day and now we get some 1 nap days and some 3 nap days!!! It may take a while but it's hopeful!
Last night he was down at 6:45 and up at 5:30. DD was already up at 5am (OT) so I took him downstairs to get up and he flopped into my shoulder and fell asleep!! I AP him until DH had to get ready for work at 6:30. He was down at 11:30 for nap and slept 1hr 40 min alone and 30 min with me. So I will early BT tonight and hope for 11 hours!! Maybe form my DD too!!
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Thanks,
I have no problem letting dd nap twice during the day, it is easier to manage actually, but my concern is she sleeping an hr less when she is having 2 naps.
like yesterday, she napped 1x30min, 1x1.5, nite sleep 9:18-6:20 (9 hrs , 11hrs total )
whereas on one nap day she naps 1.5, nite sleep 8:15-6:45 (10.5 hrs, 12 hrs total )
last nite she called out 2 to 3 times but didn't get up nor needed me to intervene, so do u call that stttn? why do they call out in their sleep anyway?
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We're the same CC. I only gave him one nap yesterday and it was only 1.5 hours but then he slept 13 hours at night. On two nap days he probably averages around 13 hours total.
Lulu - It got better around 14 months with lots of wi/wo or I'd just ignore him in the mornings when he was shouting (not crying) for me. Then we took him travelling for 7 months from 17 months old so that was a bit all over the place! We started getting some ew again for a while when he was 2.5 and started using a light on a timer which has been a life saver! He's a great sleeper now and rarely wakes up before 7am.
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CC-I understand your concern. I similar sleep times on 2 nap days too. We are in the same boat! Mine cries out sometimes, I think he is just dreaming! I don't usually go in until he cries more.
Karen-Thanks! It's nice to know that there will be some hope. My DD has now learned that my DS screaming is the wake time so she is now on 5am wake!! Even on days when he sleeps later she gets up at 5 because she has now used to doing it!! It's so frustrating trying to get 2 to sleep later!! I have to get one of those lights on a timer. It may work for her once I get him to sleep later and stop screaming when he does!!!
Last night he went to bed at 6:15 and woke at 4:20. He was in and out until I finally picked him up at 5am. He slept on me until 7am!! Little bugger!! But, DD was up at 5, so DH wasn't happy!! I am going to try to push the day and go for later BT tonight. Hopefully that will help him sleep later. It just seems that 9-10 hrs is all he will do on his own!!
I have some Y time now so have a great day with your LO's ladies!! Good luck tonight!
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Cadan cries out occasionally but I think it is in his sleep. Unless he gets up, it goes on more than 30 seconds or the crying escalates to an I need you cry I don't need to intervene. I would consider that STTN. Even adults talk or wake in the night. I get up to use the loo at night even. But I would consider all that to be STTN. i.e. they aren't up for any length of time.
I think it is completely normal to have shorter nights iwth 2 naps. Most LOs take longer nights when they move to 1 nap to make up for the tiredness that builds from the long A times they have with 1 nap.
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When Lewis cries out in sleep it's usually a sign of a bit of OT. Like Cadan he quickly goes back to sleep without me having to drag myself out of bed!
We did a one nap day today but he was tired and trying to fall asleep in the car on the way to my Mum's. It was 1130am so I really didn't want him to as might have ended up with it being the only nap anyway and only short due to it being in the car. He's also staying at my Mum's for 4 nights in April (have I mentioned I'm going to Dubai with Amy 8) ) so I want him to have a few more naps there to get used to the room a bit more. He was fine today and went straight down. At Christmas when we stayed there though he wasn't happy about the room as he hadn't stayed for ages but hopefully there's some familiarity with the room now and it'll be fine in April.
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Thanks ladies,
lulu- we were up at 4:30 this morning too, with a 7:30 BT!
early BT becos yesterday's naps all went wrong, first was an OT 40min nap becos I extend her 1st A too much, then, pm nap was in the car so it was only 30mins, she was yawning by 6:30.
luckily, After 4:30 WU, she went back to sleep after a feed in 30mins and no crying, otherwise I don't know what to do with her 4:30 in the morning. she slept till 7:15 this morning.
so I guess, like Karen said, my dd is not moving to one nap just yet, mayb I should keep shortening one of the nap until it is non-existence or until she refuses it.
I am letting her to have long am this morning, so if pm nap goes wrong, at least she has 1.5hr nap and oh, 1st A is only 4 hr ( she fights it for 10mins but it is giving me more than 1hr nap at the moment, really, can't stretch her !st A to 5 without over-tiring her )
seems we are still a long way from one nap......
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Karen, v. jealous about your Dubai trip....we have some friends there & keep meaning to go & visit!
Ellis also cries out in his sleep & he's also started 'talking' in his sleep...the other morning I heard E at around 5am & it sounded like he was awake, babbling away....I popped my head into his room & he was fast asleep murmuring away!!
I agree that if they are OT/OS they are more likely to cry out.
CC - glad your LO went back to sleep, 4.30am is not a good time to be awake!
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Aww! Sorry CC! I know how 1 nap is much more convenient! Or at least it is for me with 2 LO's!
Yesterday he slept for 1.5 hours at his 1 nap. Not long enough to make it to 8pm. So to try to stop the 5am I wanted to do BT at 8pm. I gave him a CN at 5pm for 30 min. It was hard to wake him. I put him to sleep at 8pm. That's a long day for me!!! I was in bed at 8pm!!
Today he is up at 5:19am!!! My DD is just waking at 6am so that is good for her!
What do I do with the later CN? Do I let him sleep longer or keep it at 30 min if I want a 8pm BT?
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lulu,
For my lo, if she does 2 naps and one of them is a decent one, BT has to be at least 8:30 to push her WU after 6 ( but that's is my lo who only does 9-10hrs nite, if yr lo can sleep longer during the nite, u mayb able to put him down earlier, and with a nap so late, it is very likely that she'll get a long NW too), so if I were u, I'll keep it at 30mins. I know, it is disheartening to wake yr baby when he is sleeping sweetly, but I'll rather wake him at 5:30pm than he wakes himself at 3am....
For us, yesterday was a one nap day, she had a 1hr15 nap in the am, but then she refused the pm nap and we were out so AP was impossible. Ended up with a 7hrs last A and BT at 7:30 again. Needless to say, early wake up for us at 5:30 but she STTN for 10rs (with a little cried out for 2 seconds) so I shouldn't be complaining.
Today is definitely going to be a 2 naps day, I put her down at 4hr A for 40mins, aiming a long pm nap at 3hrs A.....hope it works.
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Thanks cc! I think that is what I will stick to when I have days like that. Sounds like yesterday was a good day with a STTN! Congrats! How did today go?
Yesterday he had a 3 hour nap with AP half way through and he was tired at 6pm! What's up with that? He was up at 5am today I thought I would try a bottle. Haven't tried that yet!! He didn't want it!! He just threw it at me! I didn't want to pick him up so I just stayed next to the crib and shhh-ed! He settled down and went back to sleep. I noticed him going through stages of sleep wake and when he woke he saw I was standing there and immediately closed his eyes and went back to sleep! This is good! I had to stand there until 7am but he slept!!!! I will bring in a chair for tomorrow morning!!!
Have a good night!
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lulu- my lo does the same, sometimes when she is not too sleepy but she wants to sleep, she does that "check if u r still here" thing with me too, but I don't stay there all the way, I sneak out once she is asleep. I treasure my Y time, even if it is only 20mins.
So yr lo STTN from 8 to 5?
Last nite wasn't so great, I knew there will be UT NW when she was babbling at BT. I let her nap too much yesterday although I woke her on both naps, 40mins and 1 hr 20, capping at 4:08, BT at 9. She woke at 3:30, cried hysterically (she cried less if it is OT), so to calm her, I BF her, put her back to bed and she tried to sleep but didnt fall asleep until an hr later. Woke 7 this morning, so it is 9ish hr nite for us.
So we have reached a point where one nap day is too long but 2 naps day is too short. Today I'll try to cap the naps at 30mins and 1 hr to see of this gives us better nite, if not, I'll go for alternate day of one nap and 2 naps....
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LOL! Mine does the check thing for about 1/2 an hour! I don't know when to leave!! My Lo STTN from 6:30-5. His naps go until 1:30/2 so I have trouble putting in a CN at around 5-5:30 to stretch him until 8pm to get him (hopefully!) to 6am. I am so exhausted by then!
Sounds like you did good for naps yesterday. It seems she just needs some tweaking! That is good! Sorry to hear about the NW.
Yesterday for us was 30 min nap in car on the way to Granny's house and 30 min at Granny's at around 1ish. Bt at 7. Long for him DH insisted that he shouldn't go before 7pm. He was up at 5:30 to day. Better. DD was up at 5:15!! Not so good!!
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We did a 2 nap yesterday followed by an 11 hour night and up at 615am. So figured today was going to be a 2 nap day as well, yeah right! First nap was on cue from 945-11am but he didn't go to sleep for second nap so did a 6pm bedtime. Hopefully we *should* get a 13 hour night now with a 7am wake up as that's what he usually does on one nap days but worried he's going to be OT after a 7 hour A time before bed.
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FX for the long night Karen!
E has woken from his PM naps the last few days crying which is unusual for him, I think it's probably OT but also his 1st year molars have been coming through so hard to tell what it is!
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Yeah Lewis has his bottom two molars right there as well. One of them is just breaking through so I suppose considering that he's doing quite good. Had one quick nw last night but he went straight back down after meds and teething gel.
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Karen-that's a long A time. WOW! I hope you get a good night too!
Today's start was early so he was down at 10am for 30minutes!!!! I AP for another 20 and he was up. He fell asleep in the car on the way to Granny's and slept there for a total of 1.25hrs. This way I was able to get a 7:30 BT for him. Hopefully this will give me a later wake tomorrow!! Crossing my fingers!
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Ladies, seems as though there are a lot of 5 am wake ups! Yesterday Ethan was up at 5, nap at 9:30-11:30 (I let him sleep long because the night before was only 8.5 hours) snuck in an AP CN from 4:45-5:15, went out to dinner and BT at 8. THE LATEST BT EVER!! and wouldn't you know it, up at 5am again. Today, he only napped for 1.5 all day and DH is trying to get him down now at 6:45. I hope he doesn't fight it...I don't know how to get him caught up when he boycots sleeping both at night and the day!! He's happy, so it makes it not too terrible.
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it is 5am wake up for us here too....
I am thinking mayb 4.5-5 hrs A b4 BT is too short for my lo? she fights BT a little, we were rolling in bed for a good 30mins and then an EW, back to sleep after a 15mins hysterical crying/shouting as she wants to stay in my bed. She tries to climb out of her cot and push me away when I was comforting her. WU at 8 so one nap day it is.
Now asleep in cot from 12:25...FX for a long one.
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6am wu up but that was a 12 hour night so can't complain although a 13 hour night would have been better!
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Ellis's night seem to be a bit strange...we've been having NW's & EW's due to his molars coming through, but we've been doing a meds DF at around 2am which has really helped.
Anyway, a bit of a pattern seems to be emerging...his night will get progressively shorter over a few nights then on the 3rd or 4th night he'll do a really long night (12hrs +) & then the cycle seems to start again ???
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Who knows Sian! I going through a bit of a ??? period as well!
I had an 'I'm tired of staying in for naps' moment this morning so took him to a toddler group. Put him straight down when we got in at 1120am but he's only just gone to sleep at 1145am. I've arranged for my friend to bring Ethan home from preschool today otherwise would have to wake him in 15 mins.
I'm seriously thinking about doing 1230pm nap every day (as this is the earliest I can usually get him down after preschool pick up) and just hoping he doesn't get too OT. Will see how long he naps today/sleeps tonight and decide on tomorrow from there.
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5am here too! Yikes! Even with a 7:30pm BT! I was able to get him down after about 40 minutes of PD and SHHH! He woke after 10 min of sleep and well it was 6am and I had to get DD up and DH was getting ready for work! SIGH!
I am going for 5A time today. He is getting tired now. 10am nap for him and depending on how long he sleeps it looks like 2 nap day today!!!
Once again, still in the 5am loop!!!
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Hi ladies, we were getting 4-5 am wake ups for a good month straight (and no going back to bed) before we finally decided to just bite the bullet and do one nap cold turkey. This was after months of fumbling with the short nap, long nap situation. The EW's were immediately solved (I think the first morning she cried a bit but then right back down). I haven't read all these posts thoroughly to know everyone's particular circumstances, but I just wanted to put that out there.
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That's great that you solved your EWs with moving to one nap Sparrow. How old was your LO when you made the switch?
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She was about 16 months but I think she was ready earlier, hence all the EWs. It's been a month now and still going well.
Ali, I like having your ticker around so I can see which type of food my baby is now being compared to! :)
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I did something similar with my DD when we went through 2:1, we went to 1 nap very quickly over a few days & it worked really well. DD was around 16 mths too when we did it & I'm sure that's one of the reasons it worked so well as she was old enough to handle the extra A time.
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She was about 16 months but I think she was ready earlier, hence all the EWs. It's been a month now and still going well. Ali, I like having your ticker around so I can see which type of food my baby is now being compared to!
DS was around 12.5mo when we jumped to 1 nap but he never had EW. I found it hard to know if he was NW due to OT or if it was just habit due to BFing. Once I stopped the NFs a couple months ago it became easier to tell.
BTW, you never did join us on the due date thread. I find it so interesting seeing what everyone else is going through at the same stage. No pressure of course but we are a friendly bunch if you decide you are interested. ;)
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yesterday's one nap plan had gone to pot.
dd dozed off in car after playgroup at 4:50-5:10....well, she didn't fight BT at 9 with such a late catnap so I was glad, but she woke at 4ish, 5ish and then up at 7, 10hrs nite with 2 brief NW.
I am wondering if the short A time (4-5hrs) before BT is the culprit of all the NW and EW, because no matter how much nap she had in daytime (1.5 to 2hr10) she still isn't STTN, and the only time she STTN was when she had one nap and had 7hrs last A, 10hrs nite but then this gives us 5am WU....
Can't win!
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Could be CC, I've always found that a late CN (no matter how short), generally gave me a short night after....
Quick Q......do any of you find that too short a 1st A time can lead to a shorter night if that makes sense? I'm sure I've read somewhere that it does...
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Thanks for the info Sparrow! It's great help!
cc-I would be careful on the 7hrs A time it could get you into OT easily. But, yes, you sometimes can't win!!! HUGS!
At 5am I used to pick him up and hold him until it was time to get up. Just to keep peace for everyone in the house. This didn't work for me however!!! Over the last 3 days I have decided not to PU and hold him but do PD. It is now day 3 and is clearly NOT working!!! Today by 6am I figured I would give him his usual 6am bottle and see if he would at least go back down. He DID!
Now something is obviously triggering him at 5am! On the dot! I have now come to believe it's the neighbour leaving for work.
So I will try to go in and give him a bottle and get him back down for the next few days and if that doesn't work then I wonder if WTS will work??
I don't know! Like cc says, you just can't win!! You just have to try different methods!!
We did 3 naps yesterday, 1.5 after 4hrs A time(b/c he was up at 5am!) and 2 CN in the car on the way to Granny's and home from Granny's. SIGH! Bt was at 7pm last night.
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Sian - I found that with ds1 but not really with Lewis. Ethan was always trying to catch up on missed night sleep ::)
So we had nap from 1145am-130pm yesterday. He did wake up and cry for a bit after 40 mins but luckily went back to sleep. Then went straight to sleep at 620pm and woke up at 725am. We did have a 5am wake up but I don't think it was OT as he's had 10.5 hours sleep by then with no wake ups. He also didn't want to feed and was really upset so I defiantly think it's that molar breaking through. After some meds, a cuddle and a feed in the end he went back to sleep till the morning. He was getting a bit tired this morning but kept him up till after the school run and he was asleep just after 1230pm. Going to see if I can convince Ethan to go for a nap with me in a bit as well!
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We're still struggling with EWs too -- even after what I thot was a nearly perfect day yesterday:
6 A
11:40-1:35 S
6:50 S
She cried out at 10:30 but back to sleep on her own. Up at 5:30 today crying/fussing. Guzzled 8 oz of milk and now she's drooling like crazy so maybe the incisors are coming in. Ugh... She almost fell asleep at 10 a.m. on the way to the library but I've given up on 2 naps in a day. Even when she takes a 20-30 min. cat nap in the a.m. on the way to somewhere I can't get her down for the p.m. nap. This girl just doesn't want to miss out on anything I guess.
Can't remember who had a 7 hr A time - but we've had a few of those due to short naps and second nap refusal. Amazingly she seems to sleep even better those nights. Silly girl.
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Quick Q......do any of you find that too short a 1st A time can lead to a shorter night if that makes sense? I'm sure I've read somewhere that it does...
Yes that is certainly one theory. By coincidence I was just reading this
8. First nap of the day is too earlyEarly waking can be due to the first nap of the day being too early. The final part of the night time sleep cycle can become separated, appearing as an early morning nap. (Hames 2002) (Ferber 1986)This can be resolved by gradually pushing the first nap of the day further forward very slowly, over several days.
Lulunut - if he wakes the same time every day w2s could work well. Even if it is the neighbour waking him w2s could still work by making it so that he is in a deeper sleep at that stage and less disturbed by external noise. Worth a try I think.
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our nite following the one nap isn't to bad.
dd was rubbing her face at 5.5A but I kept her up till 6hrs15 A and she did STTN 9hrs, woke briefly for a feed at 5:30 and went back down and now it is 9, and still asleep. I think she must be really tired from yesterday's one nap. I am not waking her as I fear she might get OT and if she can catch up with longer nite sleep, that's good. and I can try another one nap day today without stretching her last A too much.
I have read that Ferber book as well, regarding that short 1st A. I think it is a good read even if u are against his control crying sleep training method.
lulu- I think u might be right about why our los wake at 5. I am thinking I might be the one waking my lo, cos I find that on nite when I sleep better, she sleeps better and she almost always moan and wake when I turn or move in my bed in the morning. It is fine during the nite cos she'll just turn and go back to sleep but at 5, they almost have all their sleep so it is a delicate time and a little disturbance can wake them. we are in the same room, but she is in her own cot. I'll need to move her to her own room soon. mayb u can use white noise to mask the neighbor's noise?
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Karen-it's nice when you can get both to sleep at the same time!!! I love it even if I have to sleep with one of them!
Cadie's Mum-I had him on 5A time and 1 nap since this new method of not picking him up he is obviously tired and wants to sleep by 9am. I don't like 2 naps so I am onto the next idea!!!! I still got 5am's before so I don't know??? W2S I will try before the bottle and pick up or should I try W2S first? Uhhh! I don't know!
cc-YAY! one nap is good news! I have white noise going so again I don't know!!! Thanks though! (smile)
I think he triggered by something, either his tummy or a noise outside and since I have been picking him up and holding him after that trigger he has come to expect it.
Today was wake at 5am, crying in and out for an hour so I decided to give him a bottle and he went back down until 7am. Nap at 10:30-11:40 on the way to Granny's at at Granny's. Granny decided to take him to the mall hoping that he would fall asleep on the way there and stay asleep, no such chance!!! My LO doesn't want to miss anything thing either!! CN on the way home from Granny's at 5pm and cranky until BT at 6:30. OT!!!
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lulunut, Ethan wakes nearly everyday of his life at 5am. I've been up trying to figure out if he's hearing something outside, etc. but there's nothing. It's like some internal alarm clock!! He will also go straight back to sleep if I feed him at this time, usually until 7am. From what I remember reading on here, I feel like this is "normal" or common. :)
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W2S I will try before the bottle and pick up or should I try W2S first? Uhhh! I don't know!
I would try w2s first as if this solves the EW it will be gone. The bottle will just make it into a NW, which while preferable to an EW (to me anyway) is not as good as sleeping until the start of the day. JMO.
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MMM! I have some thoughts on both sides of the plan! Thanks ladies! From talking with my friends they say that they know some babies that will do that forever! One friend said her son did it until he was 4!!!! Yikes!
I tried the bottle this morning and I didn't check the temp all the way through because when it got mixed up it was cold and he didn't want it. So I brought him downstairs and heated it again and after that he was up!!! So I messed that plan up this morning! My DH got DD back to sleep so that was good!
I decided to just go with 11am nap time. It is so hard to stretch them!!! I am not an entertainer!! I put DD down at 11:30 and then he was up right away. I PU and AP until he fell asleep and put him down again. He was up 10 min later. I left him. I am sorry but I had to walk away. I let him cry. I cried! I had to call a friend I was going crazy and needed time out! After about 40 minutes I calmed down. He was still screaming!! DD slept through it thankfully. I got him up and fed him.
He had a CN at 4 for 30 min and BT at 7.
I made it alive!!!
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Lulu, when I couldn't take resettling DS for naps again I would just get him up and let him play quietly for a bit. Maybe you could do that next time you find it too much. Leaving him to cry for such a long time is likely to cause problems with separation anxiety and Tracy believes using CIO or CC breaks the bond of trust between you and your LO which can be very difficult to re-establish.
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hugs lulu,
I agree with cadie's mum on getting lo up when the resettling gets too much for u to handle.
I almost never resettle my lo since she was 6 months old, first, she is too heavy for me to hold for long period of time and I get crazy being in the darkened room for so long and the resettling is longer than the nap itself, I just think it is not worth it. If she can't/doesn't want to sleep, then that's it. She can sleep another time when she wants to.
If following a routine makes yr life easier to manage, it is a good thing but if it stresses u out then mayb it is better just to follow yr lo's cue.
we had some crazy A time and sleep time the last 2 days. The nite following the one nap day, I let dd sleep all she can and she did a 14hrs nite with a NW and a feed at 5:30.
she had 4hrs A and went back to sleep for an hr 2:15-3:15 when I woke her as we have to leave the house.
Then she fell asleep 3 hrs later in the baby carrier for 40 mins and that was 6:15 to 7pm!! I didn't expect her to have so short A time.
So I expect the nite to be horrible but no, she STTN from 9:45 -6:15 only 8.5hr nite but I think I can't squeeze more sleep from her as she had 15hrs+ of sleep the day b4.
then today, she was doing 4hrs A/2/5.75 A/30min/2.5 A and BT at 9.
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My intention wasn't to CIO. I am sorry if that came across that way. I had settled him once already and just needed to step away from the situation. I was too upset to handle anything. It probably was better to get him up I just couldn't cope for a moment. We have help lines here so I called someone and she was wonderful calming me down. I feel better now and able to cope with some self strategies she helped me with. It was a full day of temper tantrums from DD, clinging LO and tired and frustrated me. I need more ME time.
Thanks for the support ladies! Hugs!
Today I was up at four and to review my BW book on W2S. I heated a bottle just in case. I got to him at 4:30. I know it should be an hour before but I thought I would try anyways. Just opening the door startled him. I went to DD's room and turned up the noise machine and she stirred too. He was up at 5:15. Didn't want the bottle. So we were up! She slept until 7am so the W2S worked on her!!! And my DH!!! I will try for 4am tomorrow.
CC-Good news on the 14 hrs! I find sometimes after a shorter nap than what they needed, they need shorter A time in between. If that makes sense?! And good news on the STTN. Short but good maybe she will have a longer nap today!?
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yesterday was another one nap day.
WU 7:30
nap 11:40-2
BT 8:30
everything went well, not too tired b4 BT, just wondering is 2hr20 too much for a nap, I woke her at 2, fearing that she won't sleep at nite, don't know how much she can sleep if I let her...
But I think we have a problem here. dd has been having a NW at 5:30 more than a few times (regardless of BT) although she doesn't do this everyday ( she sometimes will sleep thru 5:30 and have a 6ish WU) but I think she has the habbit of getting up at 5:30, take a feed then goes back to sleep until she gets her 10hrs nite quota met.
When I feed her, she is not sleepy but will settle back to sleep within 30mins (including the feed) on her own. I put her back to her cot if I see her rolling in my bed after feeding. But I am thinking mayb she has learned to wake up for a feed at that time? Today I tried to settle her without feeding but she was crying and trying to climb out of her cot for a good one hr then I gave up and fed her ( she wasn't hungry hungry)q and she quickly settled back to sleep until 8:30.
I did try w2s, she stirred a little at 4:40 but that did not work....I'll try for another 2 nites to see if that helps.
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CC-great job on the one nap day! I think 2:20 seems perfect for your LO but I would have to read up to verify. I know that every LO is different so it may work for her. I also have friends who did the bottle at EW. It eventually works out but they do get used to getting that bottle at a certain time. I am sorry I don't know anymore to help you. Good luck on W2S tonight.
Sat we did one 2.5 hour nap half with me. 6:45 BT and 2am, 4am NW and 5:15 W. Not sure about that??
Sun 1hour nap at 11am and 40 min nap at 3:30, 8pm BT and 5:30W today.
I wanted to do W2S on Sun morn but he was up before me! And DD is sick so we were up with her all night last night so no W2S for him this morning. I will try again soon! Besides he went to 5:30!!
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headed over here as Jakobs 14m (hi all)
we had a horrible week of head banging up the cot with 30 mins settling time (when jakob usually is an easy baby to settle) and then 4 teeth (2 molars top and incisors bottom) pushed through...poor baby, all in one go, with a cold and cough to top it all off :(
anyhow, the whole thing seemes to have knocked the thumb sucking on the head. his callous is almost gone and i havent seen him use his thumb at bedtime or any other time for about 4 weeks now...is this unusual???? i sort of expected him to suck his thumb till school lol!
we are currently doing 6am-6.30/ 4.5 - 5 hr A/1hr - 2hr nap/5 - 6hr A (which i think is too long but i just cant consistently get a 2 hr nap and cant seem to get bedtime forward before 6.45 without missing something out- like a meal lol!)
Superdad had the kids on sat night (my 1st night away in 5 yrs!!!) and they both slept till 7.15 as he managed to put jakob back to sleep at 6am... i cant do it..he sees me and practically leaps out the cot.
im off to bed now to catch up on missed sleep as its my turn to get up tomorrow (even tho i actually get up every day as they all make such a damn noise!!!) so it will be a 6am DS2 wake up, with DS1 in our bed at 5 no doubt!
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hugs lulu, must be really tough taking care of a sick child. The bad thing about w2s is, u get to wake up an hr earlier than yr lo, and take the risk of waking him totally and not going back to sleep.
yesterday went well with another one nap, but only 1.5hr so lo was cranky during dinner and BT was 8:15 but she sttn so that was good.
I woke at 4 to do the w2s at 4:20, she stirred, then WU at 6...so does that mean it worked? so am I suppose to do it 3 nites in a row? so another one tomorrow?
since her day starts so early, I am thinking of a 2 naps day, but her one nap nite went so well... I don't want the NW to come back...mayb I'll do a 15min am, then long pm?
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cc-sounds like your LO is slowly making the transition. Great! Excellent on the STTN! Sounds like the W2S worked to me. Yes, you have to do it for 3 nights.
W2S is on hold until DD1 is better. She is still very sick. I have been splitting them up to keep it away from him. She is so irritated when he is around so it's better for everyone.
So naps have been scattered due to the trips to Grannies with one kid and home again later. Yesterday was 2 naps total 1.5. Wake at 4am AP until 6. Today was 1.5 on his own with 7pm BT.
Welcome over Jakobsmommy! I have the same issue with 1.5hour naps. They need to be longer and sometimes I get between 5-6A time because of it. I hope you enjoyed your day. It's wonderful to have a day off! Good for you!!
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we had a 2 nap day yesterday and a NW and EW
dd was up at 6 so I put her down to nap at 10:50, planned to wake her up 15-20 min but she just refused to get up and ended up with a 1.5hr nap. I AP a pm nap, 3:30-3:50, BT was pushed to 9:45!!! becos of this 20min!! NW at 4ish just when I wanted to do the w2s, so I waited for her to fall asleep again before I wake her and the next thing I know was dd crying at 5:30....
Trying to end the wake-feed-back to sleep cycle so I try to settle her without bf, she was lying on the cot crying for 1hr15min before I decide 6:45 is a good time to bf her. she wanted to sleep after bfing and that was already 7:20 so I got her up.
AP a 20 min nap from 9:30-9:50. don't know what to do in the pm as we have an appointment with the vet and have to bring dd out with the rabbit.
It seems dd sleeps better at nite with only one nap but last nite could be OT too, with such a late BT.
desperately need some Y time but DH booked himself a grand hotel room after a business trip so it's me alone again. Jacobsmommy, I envy u...but I'd like my Y time a bit more frequent than once in 5 years...
Lulu- I am guessing that AP in the morning is getting into a habit for yr lo, seem like yr lo can sleep an hr or 2 more when u AP him so he actually needs that sleep ( my lo will only sleep 30-40min if I AP her sleep as she is not sleepy enough to drift to sleep by herself and stay asleep for long), is there anyway u can wean him off the AP so he can get all his sleep in one go? I am just guessing here, and I myself is finding a way to wean my AP, so not much help..sorry
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cc-Aww! Hugs!
What A time are you at now?
Have you tried to shorten her BF in the am instead of quitting all together? That maybe an option if quitting all together doesn't work . Or slowly add water to a bottle with less milk.
Our days now are so crazy and all over the place. Maybe that is why my Lo's naps are all over!!
Sometimes time to yourself with your LO is good. There is no one else to foil your plans!!!
Yes, we are stuck in the AP!! It's the only way I can get him to 6-6:30 wake in order to make it to 11 for nap. It might be just what I have to do right now in order to get everyone the rest they need. I should try to put him down after a bit. I just get tired and don't want to have him cry and wake everyone. You do what works I guess and deal with it later. This allows me some Y time in the afternoon while DD sleeps. I also allows me to stretch his naps with some AP while she sleeps. I don't know. I have tried the other option I just need my sleep and Y time right now. It's totally my fault!!
Last night DD was up at 12:30 and wouldn't go back to sleep until 1:30. DS was up at 1:15 and was up until 2:30. It's strange he would play for a bit then settle and go down for 5-10 min and then he was up again. Play and go down again. He wouldn't cry if he could still see me sitting there. I did PD every time he got up. I gave up and lied down on the floor. He got up once after that and I fell asleep. He was up at 5:30 and I AP in the chair until 6:30. He is at Grannies today so that I can take care of DD.
Urgh!
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lulu-I can see how difficult it is and I am no exception doing all I can to stop dd crying in the early morning so everyone else can get some sleep. That's how the AP get in in the first place. It is ridiculus how little ( and fragmented)sleep I am surviving on for over a year now. DH ask me in the morning in a refresh tone if dd has cried last nite as he didn't hear a thing from the other room, and I replied him that I got up at 4 to do the W2S, then she cried at 5, 6, and got up at 7ish.
I grab any opportunities to sleep early in the evening as I know dd sleeps well mostly at the 1st half of the nite and I get my longest stretch of 5hr or 6 if I am lucky but DH stays up late until 12 or 1 even and although I want to have some quiet time with DH, I can't afford it. I can't function during the day with only 3 or 4 hrs of sleep at nite.
we are having around 4hrs 1st A and 5-6hrs last A, it is unreliable as the 1st A following a one nap day is short, she fell asleep while I was clipping her fingernail today at 4hrA whereas she can do 4hr50 after a shortish nite following a 2 naps day. and last A as well, with the same amount of last A , she can handle it much more comfortably if she had 2 naps and she fights BT even.
for us, long NW and playing is a sign of UT, could that be yr case as well?
I don't think my dd wants bf becos she is soooooo hungry she can't sleep, I think it is more of a habbit that she gets to comfort suck and get back to sleep. TOday's W2s didnt' go too well, I did it at 4:25, she got up totally at 5 but went back down in 10min, no bf, cried a little at 6, and slept till 7:50. Now napping from 11:30.
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I love when your DH doesn't hear anything!!! They are just not as in tune as we are!!
cc-5-6 hours is good. Just think back to when you only got 3-4 hours!!! I also get 1 hour with DH at night then I pass out!
Our A times are similar. mostly 5 now. Yes, I think the long NW was due to UT. He got 2.5 and 1/2 hour in car ride home so maybe too much sleep at nap time. I think that was the day! I get my nights mixed up sometimes!!
Sounds like today's w2s went ok for you! Good! My LO is now sick so the W2S will wait!
I am off for my Y time with DH then early Bt for me!!! It maybe a long night or a good night depends on how he reacts to the cold!
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Just checking back in, my DD seems to be getting better now after 8 weeks of colds and coughs, so *maybe* I can expect better things.
cc - with you on the sleeping front, I get my head down about 9pm so I can get a good few hours in but DH is missing me lol. I feel I am sacrificing my life sometimes just to get adequate sleep to function the next day. But then I have a couple of days when I am "up to date" with sleep and my outlook is transformed, I start to plan things, get on with sorting the house out, then it all goes pear shaped and I have to put it all on hold again.
A 6am wake up is all I'm asking for...!
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spodnic, have u try delaying yr lo's BT so the WU gets later? I'd rather give dd a catnap then a late BT so I can get a later WU.
lulu- hope the cold goes away soon so u get better sleep for everyone.
I had 2 two naps days and a late BT at 9:45, I know it is unbelievably late for most of the mums here but that gave us sttn and wu at 6:30. I don't wake my lo in the morning but if she wants to get up after 8.5 or 9 hrs of sleep, I'll let her and try to stop stressing about it.
The previous 2 days were one nap day, sort of sttn ( she woke and stood in her cot and went right back down after I told her to) from 8ish to 7.
The only thing is, I don't consistently get 2hrs nap from her and if she naps 1.5 or 1hr 15min, she is really sleepy by dinner time. Tonite she practically slept thru her bath and skipped her bed time milk and story. BT was 7, hope she can sleep till 6ish. Also, if we go out in the afternoon, she almost always falls asleep in the car when we return home. I think it is more of a habit as she falls asleep as little as 3hrs A after a 2 hrs nap. Does that happen to anyone? Is there a way to stop this late nap other than not going out at all? It is impossible to wake her up in the car unless the engine is off so by the time we reach home, she had at least 30-40mins nap already.
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Spodnic - We have that problem with DS falling asleep in the car or buggy after a short A when I don't want him to. I either avoid going out at those times or try to be really active and entertaining when we're in the car so he can't fall asleep. Could you give her a drink in a sippy in the car or put on some loud, upbeat children's music perhaps? Or give her a toy or book to play with? Or if someone else is in the car with you could they play with her, e.g. peek-a-boo or similar? Or even just keep talking to her in an animated voice might help.
Is she in the forward or backward facing carseat? I think DS is more alert now he is upright and forward facing so you might find it helps when you make the switch if you haven't done so already.
We actually did 2 naps yesterday but the 2nd was at 17.55 in the car so I think he really wanted to just go to bed. The first had also been in the car so was only 40mins. He was up 2hrs after the 2nd nap but the last 40mins of that was in the cot and he finally settled at 21.10! STTN to 7.40 this morning and now I am about to wake him after a 2hr50 nap or he won't want to sleep tonight either.
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It's been quiet here!
Spodic- how are things going now that you have everyone better? 8weeks is a long time to be sick. Mine have been for 2 weeks and that is enough to stop me from having a 3rd child!!
cc-how are things for you?
Everyone is getting better. Still some runny noses but I am going to get back on trac tomorrow. He has been somewhat on the same schedule for the last 2-3 days so I think he is ready to get back to sleep training. The weather has gotten much better here so I think going outside will help the situation a bit! I can only hope!
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lulu- yes, it's been so quiet here. Things are ok for us, nites are good but short, 8.5-9hrs, naps are long 2hrs+ so I thing dd has shift some nite sleep to the day. sometimes one nap but very sleepy dinner time, sometimes 2 and late late BT. good luck for yr sleep training.
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I was going to post today that we're doing really well on two nap days but of course he threw a spanner in the works today with a pm nap refusal :P
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cc-yes, looks like some time shifting is needed! Hugs!
Karen-LOL! I don't mean that badly! It's just what those LO's do isn't it!? Little rascles!
Today was 5am wake. He is getting bigger and harder to AP so I have to change things. He did 4.5A. I cut him off at 30 min hoping for a short A time and a longer pm nap....NOPE! 4.75A now napping. Now I will have to cut him off at 1 hour in order to get him to bed for 7:30!
I went for 2 naps because since we have been sick he has done 1-3NW with EW everyday. I hope to get him back on schedule and then push his days to get back to 1 nap. That is my hope!!!
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lulu- I have the same experience too, dd can have a long A even after short nap unless I AP one into her. How do u AP yr lo to sleep? hold and rock? I bf mine as I don't have the stamina to hold and rock her for more than 5mins.
Last nite was good, STTN 10.5hrs from 8:30 to 7. I was thrilled as this must be the only time dd slept till 7 with no NW. Today her nap is much shorter, 1hr20 after 5hrs A. So her total sleep is just under 12hrs as usual.
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cc- I PU and hold and sit in the "Lazy Boy" chair. The feet kick up and it goes back so he is happy just snuggled into me. No rocking. He has to have one hand in my armpit or touching my skin though. He is too big to hold and rock!
Yay on the 10.5 STTN! My DD didn't get over the 12 hour total until about 18mts. It started when DH had to get up with her instead of me because of DS. Maybe we should both delegate our DH's to do the NW and EW!!!
Two nights ago was first STTN in about 1.5 weeks with 2 40 min naps after 4.5 A time. BT at 7:30.
Last night was NW at 3, 4, 4:30, 5:40 here is when I was so tired and did AP again even though I said I wouldn't!! Wake time at 7:15. Nap now at 12:20. After 5A time. This nap was hard to get him down. But he went eventually! Now some Y time for me which includes a nap!!! Let's hope he does a long nap!!!
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Hi all,
Cadie's mum - believe it or not I have a toy trumpet in the car plus snacks and toys galore and a helpful 4 year old to try and keep her awake in the car.
Lulu - yep, DS brings home all the colds from nursery so we had 8 weeks of it, now 2 weeks without a cold, and now ANOTHER cold, they both have it. The next few nights are going to be so much fun :~
I am going to move DD to one nap over the Easter break, so only a few weeks to go. I think I will set a time, stick to it but move it every 3 days, 20 mins at a time. Or should I be more adventurous? I just need to get to 12.45pm for nap start, cos of school run.
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So coming on here in search of some advice!!
DS turned one in early March. We are going through the 2-1 transition. I tried short AM naps, lone PM naps but it was leading to BT at 7 and waking at 5:30- too early for me! So we tried longer A times and a longer AM nap and short PM nap. This has led to either a later BT (8ish to 6am) or no afternoon nap (but a quiet time in bed) and a 7pm nap with a longer nigh sleep (11hrs instead of 10).
So I am finding that longer As (4-4.5hrs versus 3.5hrs) and less day sleep (total of 2 -2.5hrs instead of 3) is leading to better nights...
But I am finding it a bit tricky. If I let DS sleep as long as he wants in the AM nap, it would be from 10:30-1 or 1:30 even. Then there would be NO pm nap and a 7pm Bt...but if I do that, I am worried he will eventually get OT...so I wake him after 1.5-2hrs and try for a PM nap (hit or miss lately...). SIGH!
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Spodnic-I can't believe you have a trumpet! That is funny! Does it work? I find if they are really tired they will sleep through anything!! Sorry about all the colds. My DD is in pre-school so she brings us home great ones! I hope nights are better for you now.
Mama2c-wecome! I am certainly no expert on naps or sleep. My LO is all over the place! Probably because I am!! My suggestion, try to cap the am nap at 1hr in order to get more pm sleep. Finding that perfect A time is hard. Do whatever gets you better nights. But keep in mind I am certainly no expert!!
I think I have solved the 5am issue! Many people have suggested to feed him. I tried a few times and he just trew the bottle at me. So I assumed he wasn't hungry. Lately he has been waking at 4am instead of 5am. I just can't get him back down. I tried the bottle again but I PU and settled him first then fed him the bottle once he stopped screaming. He drank the whole thing (7oz) and went back to sleep. I was able to put him back in his crib and he didn't get up until 6:30am!! Perfect!!!! This allows me to do his nap at 11:30 and now we can work on making it longer so that he sticks to one nap per day! I think this is the solution!! Let's hope!!!
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Thanks for the welcome Lulu! My DD transitioned herself seemlessly at 13 months from 2-1 so I'm not quite familiar with how to "manage" the transition. She did need some BWing help with dropping her one nap so I guess I am a bit familiar with the need for cutting naps/early BT etc..
I could try an even shorter AM nap but I can't have him sleeping between 3:30-4 so I'd either have to get him up from a PM nap at 3:30 (which I used to do and this led to an earlier BT and earlier WU) or I could put him down for a quick nap at 4...that is what I did today so we'll see. AM nap was 10:30-12 and pm nap was 4:30-5. He really has jumped with A times lately...
Interesting that your LO was hungry and went back to bed! Nice!
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Sounds good Mama2c. Hopefully it works for you.
Today I tried the same routine, he went back down for 20 minutes!!!! Then up, chatting and calling my name! Urgh!
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Lulu - really???! Oh no!!!! What time was he up? Not 4 I hope!
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Ok - feeling a bit nervous. Kean woke up at 6:40 and he usually does a 4.5hr morning A time no problem so I pushed it today and watched him. He started to show signs of being tired at 11:30 as he was finishing an early lunch and so I started a slow wind-down routine and put him for his nap at 11:55. He has done 1 nap days before but not intentionally - either we were out and he didn't want to sleep in the car or stroller or he had his usual long AM nap and refused a second nap.
Hoping it works out! Fingers crossed please!! :)
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Fingers crossed for you Mam2c!!!
He was up at 4:45 am! Totally awake at 5:15!! 3.0A time 1/2 hr am nap ( I woke him up hoping for longer pm nap) 5.0A time before 1 hour pm nap ( he woke up!) He was tired when he woke but I had to get him up because DD was up. Early BT tonight.
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Lulu, I feel for you as 4-anything is too damn early. My heart sinks if I hear her and that's what the clock says.
I'm just wondering if your first A time at 3 hrs is too short and the first nap is robbing from the night sleep IYSWIM? I could well be wrong. Certainly with my LO, she does a lot of yawns in her first A time, I have to ignore them til 4.5hrs+, they are false tired indicators for her at least.
Yes my trumpet works! Most of the time anyway. ;D
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Mama2c - if your DS can do 4.5hr A time and a 3hr nap that sounds to me like you could do a perfect 12hr day with a 4.5hr A time after the nap, no? That was our routine when we moved to 1 nap. Your DS would hopefully extend his night to 12hrs for a while to catch up. So could you do:
06.00 WU
10.30-13.30 Nap (3hrs)
18.00 BT
?
Then if your DS wakes up early the next morning you can do a 2 nap day to get back to a later BT. It is really common to do a mixture of 1 and 2 nap days when first transitioning.
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Cadie's Mum - I would love if he could do a 3 hr nap...definitely worth trying for.
What happened today - WU 6:40, nap 12-2:30, BT at 7:20. He can suddenly do these long A times which is awesome. He was a much happier little boy today than other days when I do shorter A times...we shall see how the night goes though....kind of scared he'll do a 10 or 10.5hr night which is what he normally does...that would be kind of early! Oh well. We shall see!!!
Lulu - I have to echo what spodnic says about the short A time...3 hrs seems pretty short!! Can you try for 4hrs or more? I was really nervous about stretching it and up to 2 weeks ago we did a 3hr morning Atime but it just wasn't long enough for him!!! Now he is suddenly doing 5+hrs!! Obviously he was ready a long time ago and I never realized it...
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On the verge of tears this morning! 4:30!!! I got a bottle and fed him. He quickly went BTS. PD, he just didn't stay. He was sleeping, just rustling around every few minutes. One cry and a leg stretch. 2 min later another wine and he is standing! I pick him up, he flops into my arms and off to sleep again. I hold him for a bit and PD. He is asleep, then starts to rustle, eye rub and he is standing again!
In the past, I have held him and he sleeps. He is getting too long and I want to kick this AP.
I have got him up at 5am and done 5 hours before with 2 nap day. Yesterday was the first time in a long time that I let him lead his am nap time. The pm nap is sometimes an issue and I will often get 2 short naps out of it. BT if I do 6pm or 8pm, I still get a 5am wake!!! He is stuck in this loop. 3 days a week he is at grannies and the car rides mess up his naps.
Maybe, it will take longer for him to adjust and I just can't mentally keep up. 5am to 9pm with 2 kids is hard to do for me. Maybe I can't stick to things. Maybe Grannie's house is messing things up, I just don't know. I can't figure things out.
My only hope at this point is time. One day he will get to one nap for more than an hour and maybe one day he will sleep until 6/7am on a regular basis.
SIGH!
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Lulunut, after that early morning feed could you just do pupd (well more just pd at this age) until he stays down eventually and (hopefully) goes back to sleep in the cot? It will take a while the first couple times but would be worth it if it means he goes down more easily in the future I think. Sounds like he is getting disturbed or is just not comfortable enough to stay asleep in your arms anymore.
If he gets up at 5am with a 6pm BT or an 8pm BT I would opt for the 6pm every day just so it means he has more sleep and will be more rested the next day. Plus you get more of the evening off from him even if you have DD up later.
{{Hugs}}
Ali
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Lulu - Kean was up this morning at 4:30 too after our one nap day yesterday. We did PD, back rub and WI/WO and after about 45 mins he fell asleep. It wasn't too intense surprisingly but very annoying! He slept until 6:45 and today we are doing 2 naps and I think I'll stick to 1.5hr am nap and 30 min pm nap for a few days...I guess 5.5hr A times are too much and we'll have to stick to 4.5hr As for now...
Sigh!
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Cadie's Mum-I feel like one of those annoying people that you give advice to and you just want to give up on! I have tried PU/PD at 5am. I didn't do it past three days though just because it wasn't working and I was just too tired. This maybe part of the problem!!! When I did this he just continued to cry/scream when I PD. By this point EVERYONE is up and I only have until 6am to work on it because DH has to get ready for work and DD goes to school. He has gone that far with PD and fighting me or he just gives up and starts to play in his crib, handing toys to me and pointing to things.
DH says just bring into bed with us, at least we all sleep and he gets 1 nap in. I just don't want to have to deal with getting him out of our bed later but it may be the lesser of two evils!!! Sometimes you just have to do what gets you the most sleep!!! I don't know!?
Thanks for the hugs!
Mama2C- this transition is a tough stage! I am right here with you! HUGS for you!
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Lulu - just remember that while it might be the lesser of two evils, breaking him of the habit of your bed could be really difficult...that said, maybe your LO can handle it? My DD was addicted to sleeping in our bed so I could never do it...whereas DS can handle it once in a while (although these days he refuses to come to our bed, go figure!!).
You definitely need to get your sleep and for a night here and there going to your bed, it might work...or it might lead to waaaaay too many problems...
If you are that desperate for sleep (and you sound like it!!!! Gosh I would be!), can you put a mattress with blankets on the floor of his room and if he wakes up you can sleep there with him? That way you can more easily break the habit - mattress is gone so no more option of it..???
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Mama2c-that is funny that DS refuses to come to your bed. I assume it was hard to kick DD of the habit? Is she still sometimes wanting to come in?
I used the mattress before when I first had him, (he was colic, we did a lot of sleeping on a breast pillow then co-sleeping this maybe part of his need for me!) and when I finally got him into a crib and STTN I took it out! Now I may have to bring it back in. But I do agree that it maybe easier to have it in his room than our bed. I shall get DH to put it back in the room!
I am finding that since I have not been AP him this week he has been more difficult to PD for all sleeps and more NW this week. Not sure if these are related or not?
Today was 5am wake/5A/40 min am nap/3.75A/40 min pm nap/4A time/BT at 7:30pm all naps in car with transition to bed at arrival.
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lulu- Do u think the 5 o'clock wake up is an EASY issue? or Prop issue or habitual waking?
I have been posting on the EASY forum for months having mysterious NW and tweaking my EASY then someone told me if there is a prop problem, it doesn't matter how great yr EASY is. STTN only happens when i got rid of the props and sleep trained my lo. Then I got rid of EW by pushing BT later.
For pu/pd to work, consistency is key, but it only works if yr lo wants to sleep more, that is, if at 5am he has all the sleep he wants or nearly all the sleep he wants, he probably won't go BTS unless u AP ( and AP all the way until he gets up). So if yr lo usually does 12 hrs nite and at 5am, he has only 10hrs, then u have a greater chance of getting him back to sleep with pd, but if he only does 10hrs nite and it is already a 9.5hrs nite at 5, then pd may not work.
It is also worth charting how much sleep yr lo does, cos if he has long long naps, his nite could be short but it still adds up to a good amount of sleep.
Mayb u can AP him for a few days, get as much rest as u can and also note how much he sleeps, then start the sleep training at the weekend so DD's school is not in the way and get rid of the AP with pd in one go?( it took me 3 intensive days, and nite, then things settle down in a week)
And oh, I have to thank you for yr support ( and all the ladies here! ) thru out the difficult times. This board was very quiet a while ago and it was like only me and u making conversation.
dd has been STTN for the past week, and getting on with one long nap steadily ( I hope I am not jinxing it). Sometimes I would AP a short am or pm nap (10-15min) if her mid-day nap goes wrong or she wakes too early in the morning. I want to share my dd's EASY if anyone's lo is a 10hr nite sleeper.
WU: 6ish (any time from 6 to 7)
nap: 11ish until 2 (earliest at 11, latest 11:45 and if the nap is less than 2hrs, I will AP a 10min nap at 4 and push BT closer to 9 )
BT: 8ish
If things continue to look good, I am thinking of pushing BT later and get a later WU and a later nap so dd can join us at lunch. Or I should wait until dd can handle a longer first A so I can just push the nap to later without interfering BT?
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Lulu - I broke DD of the habit at 13 months and would not let her come to my bed ever and worked so hard on getting her to love her bed that now she adores her bed and would not ever want to come to my bed. When she was sick about a year ago I offered her that she could cuddle with me in my bed and she told me no, that I could cuddle with her in HER bed. LOL. But she isn't much of a cuddler!
Does your LO usually have two 40min naps? Doesn't seem like a lot of day sleeping...so he gets 80mins day sleep and 9.5hrs night sleep so in total he gets under 11hrs total sleep? My DS gets about 12.5-13hrs combined sleep...and I thought that was on the low end!! I know DS can't handle long A times after a short nap...
Do you think that contributes to his 5am wake ups?
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So me again - thinking that maybe DS needs more sleep as he only gets about 12.5hrs combined sleep lately and looking at typical sleep times he should get closer to 14hrs...so instead of 1.5hr AM and 30min PM, wondering if I should do 1.5hr AM and 1hr pm...BUT I have a problem as I HAVE to pick up DD at the bus at 3:50...so while I'd like to do WU 6:30, Nap 10-11:30, Nap 3-4, BT 7:30 I CAN'T!!!
Any ideas??? I don't want an earlier WU! If I do a 1hr morning nap from 10-11, I would have a second nap from 2:30-4 and that doesn't work either....
I feel like he really needs to sleep during that 3:50 time but he can't...lately what I have been doing is Nap 10:30-12 and 4:15-4:45ish...but it hasn't really be helping to extend his night sleep (he does about 10.5hrs).
Sigh!
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cc-I think it maybe both prop (me!) and habitual (me!). I will start to chart things. I should have done this before but I guess no sleep doesn't help you think! SMILES for the Thanks! It is good to have someone to chat with. Just to know that you are not alone is the best! Thanks to you too. (and everyone here!!) Your routine sounds interesting. I may try that tonight. This way I can get a later wake with a AP 4pm nap. Congrats on the STTN and 1 nap for almost a week now! That is great!! 9pm is late in my mind but I am up at 4-5am!! I would wait until she can handle longer A time. My dd at 2.5yrs does 6-6.5 hours A time so that is where that thought comes from.
mama2c-he averages about 1-2hours day sleep. And when things were good (STTN with 5am) he did 9-10hrs. On the low side! When I try to do short A times btwn am and pm he doesn't go down for pm until later. He does 4-5 btwn. I have tried every hour some days just to see when he would go. Little monster!! I hear your frustration on the school PU!! Do you drive or walk to do school PU? It may contribute to the problem but your LO may get sleep, try to drive around before school run so LO gets proper amount of sleep or walk before. Just an idea, not sure if it's the best! Or cap the am to get shorter A time before pm and try for longer pm with wake at school pu.
Today was interesting, BT last night was 7:30, NW at 3:30. I did PD and he went down for about 3-5 min and popped his head up, saw me and went back down for about 3-5min. This went on and on until he eventually started to stand. More PD and then screaming and trowing things out of the crib. By then it was 4:45 and DH walked in wondering why I didn't bring him in like I said I would!!! I wasn't about to at 3:30am!!! So I made his bottle and we went back to bed until 6:30. Nap at 11:30. 1 hour on his own and 1/2 with me! I needed the nap!!
I think tonight I will try the 4pm snooze and later BT hoping for later wake. Or should I do early BT with hope that no NW and I can deal with 5am????
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Lulu & Mama2c I am stuck with school runs at 12.35 and 3ish, it is gutwrenching to wake them up because of this. I hate it. I am APing both naps, I don't care, if I didn't DD's sleep would be even worse. When she goes to one nap I will drop the AP, I have simply been too tired to sort it out. At least she goes down at night with no AP so I know she can do it.
Hugs.
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Mum-I feel like one of those annoying people that you give advice to and you just want to give up on!
Not at all :-*
Not looking forward to school runs messing with naps I must say. When I HAVE to go out at nap times I do sometimes put DS in the buggy just so he is already asleep in it when I need to go out and I don't have to wake him to leave the house. He doesn't tend to sleep as long in it though so I wouldn't want to have to do it every day.
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So Cadie's mum - you put your DS in the buggy for his nap and go out once he is asleep? My DS won't sleep anywhere but his bed. Sigh! I suppose if he was REALLY tired he would sleep in the car but he would have to be REALLY tired. Both my kids are real routine kids and like their wind downs...
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I am APing both naps, I don't care, if I didn't DD's sleep would be even worse
Nic, that's exactly what I used to have to do with Ethan as it was the only way I could ever get out the house!
We're still plodding along mostly on two naps. It's meaning only 10/10.5 hour nights but he's not ready for one nap so going with it. Our day looks like this:
630am - Wake up
945/10 - 1130/1145am - Nap
345/4 - 430/5pm - Nap
8pm bed
I have done a couple of days where I've limited the morning nap to 30 mins but on one day he then refused a second nap so he had 30 mins of sleep all day :o I figure if he has a long morning nap and then refuses the pm nap at least he's had a long nap and then I do 6pm bedtime and he sleeps at least 12 hours at night that way. This also works out round 1215 and 315pm school runs. I do have to do one nap days sometimes due to after school activities but if it's only the odd day then he doesn't seem to get OT.
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Thanks to everyone! It's good to know the support is there and we all just do what works for the best! Hugs for all!!
Yesterday I did 11:30am nap 1 hour and 1/2 AP, 4:30Ap pm nap for 30 min to push his BT. Bt was at 8 no problems he was tired. STTN until 4:30am and AP until 6:30. It seems 9-10hr is his time until this gets sorted out. I am hoping it will only take a few days but at least I get them both on 12ish naps so I get some Y time!!! That makes me happy!
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So Cadie's mum - you put your DS in the buggy for his nap and go out once he is asleep? My DS won't sleep anywhere but his bed. Sigh! I suppose if he was REALLY tired he would sleep in the car but he would have to be REALLY tired. Both my kids are real routine kids and like their wind downs...
Oh no sorry. DS only goes to sleeo in his cot at home and there is no hope of transferring him without waking him. I meant I go out in the buggy and he falls asleep while we are walking around. If I need to do food shopping or such I time it so we are out at a time he needs to sleep. Normally I can get home afterwards and have my Y time with him still sleeping in the buggy in the house. Then I can leave again with him still asleep in the buggy already. Otherwise I would just stay out if his sleep time was closer to when I needed to be out. If he is really OT he normally falls asleep within minutes. If he is UT or bang on his normal A time it can take 20mins or so.
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cc- I followed your routine yesterday, he had a 2.15hr nap (1.5) on his own!!!! I wasn't sure when to do BT, I went for 7:30 and no later CN. He cried out at 10pm but I didn't have to go in he stopped right away. Then at 2:45 he screamed. I did PD about 4 times before the toys started to be handed to me the jumping and chatting started!!! By 4:15 I was holding him and he fell asleep in my arms so I put him down. He cried and I put my hand on his back and he settled. I took up a spot on the floor until he was up again at 4:40. That is when I brought him to bed with me and we slept until 7am. Baby 1 Mommy 0!!!
So, in trying to stop the 5am, I tried feeding, stopped AP and just doing PD. This has created huge step back. He has severe separation anxiety again. I have to start from scratch again! Off I go to find that thread!!!
So I thought I would extend his BT because he is doing about 8-9hours on his own and when he wakes make that his wake time. And hope that it all works out for naps. I am putting him back on two naps.
Today was a struggle for his 1st nap after 5A. I think he was OS. We had sports in the am and a visiter before nap.
Wish me luck! Now 5am doesn't seem so bad!!!!
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Lulu - glad the bringing him to bed got you more sleep. I know you need it! This morning I was sooo tired when DS woke up at 6:15 (I know, not so bad but I was up twice with DD who is sick so I was still in sleep more!) and I nursed him in bed and wanted him to fall back asleep and DS was in NOOOO mood for that - playing, laughing, ticking DH! Funny stuff. Luckily DH took him downstairs so I could sleep a bit more!!!! YOUPI!
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lulu- hugs, sorry it didn't work out for u, but yes, first few days in sleep training can get really ugly. I think mayb yr lo is OT after just one nap and not getting used to the long A and thus the NW?
My dd had a bit of SA 2 months ago, but glad it didn't last long, mayb a week or so, it's a phase and it will pass. I didn't try the WI/WO though, but I stayed by the cot until dd fell asleep, 30mins everynite for a week. Then dd decided she doesn't need me there anymore and I was dismissed.
Yesterday was a 2 naps day for us cos we had a false sense of security that the routine is running smooth and we can get out of the house and dd will stick to her normal nap time. WRONG! dd fell asleep in the car for 30min then woke up, had another pm nap from 2-4, pushed BT close to 10, STTN but woke at 6! only an 8hrs nite. I told her to go back to sleep as it was too early for milk and she lied in her cot, quiet, babbling a little for 30mins, then she was up again.
How could 30mins day nap take away 2hr nite sleep? I just don't get it!
I am heading to get a trumpet!
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ccaawc - An 8 hr night?! Ahhhhh! A 10pm BT is pretty late - maybe that contributed to the 8hrs...? Maybe she was already a bit low on sleep so the long A time before BT was a bit too much for her?? Maybe she needs a shorter A if her naps have been less??
Last night DS slept 10.5hrs (as usual) but he had a 45 min AM nap (I woke him up) and a 2.5 hr PM nap (I just let him sleep!). So his combined total was almost 14 hrs (he has been doing 12.5 lately) so I was pretty happy about that. May just be a one day thing, But I feel like he caught up a bit on sleep! Hoping for some decent sleep. DD (who is 4) has a bad sore throat and now a cold so she has been waking me up a lot and I am tired. Such is parenthood!!
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Ladies, I've been gone for a while...what do you all think a 1 hour nap means? It's after 5 hours A, he wakes happy, and then I try to AP a nap for 30 min. to get a normal BT but this doesn't usually work. He's sleeping about 11 hrs a night...
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Kim - Maybe try putting him down a bit earlier and see if that helps you get a longer night.
I've been using the time change to try out one nap days again. I've basically kept on a one nap day schedule that worked but now it's an hour later it works around the school runs. So far so good but we're only two days in! Just over 2 hour naps both days and 12 hour nights. Will see how long we last for!
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Mama2c- I hope everyone gets better soon. We got over colds a few weeks ago and no one slept much for 2 weeks! Good thing for DH's when we need more sleep! I love weekends for that!! Congrats on the 14 hr day!
cc-Thanks! I am totally having issues fine tuning his A times. I know he does 5 in the am but after that I am so confused some days! I think he is now at 4.5 for both in the afternoon. I think!! What is SA? A week! Wow! I like how you were dismissed!! That is funny! 10pm is late. I have found that since I have pushed his pm nap later he does about 3A time. Maybe try her earlier if you get such a late nap. I think someone said that already! I don't have the answer for you but it sounds like something my LO would do!!
Kimmba-does your LO do this a lot or just one time? This could just need some time to sort out where your LO needs to put sleep times. My DD did that for a few weeks before it sorted out and she started doing 2 hour naps and 11 hour nights.
Last night was BT at 8:30, 4am wake. I held him until he fell asleep and then once I put him down he woke up. I wasn't in the mood to fight so I brought him into bed with me. We have a mattress in his room so it's not OUR bed. He slept until 6am. 5A, nap in car for 30 min and woke once we got to Grannies. 4A with 1.25 at Grannies she fought him for an hour!! 4.5A and 8:30BT no problems. I am going to guess I get at least 1 NW!!!
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Karen, I tried to do BT 30 min. early but he just stared at me until his regular BT :) Basically, he had a 7 hour A time.
Lulu, he has done this all week. I'm wondering if he needs more A time??? Is that even possible at his age? I thought 5A was A LOT. He does start to hug me a lot around the 5 hour mark, which usually is his sleepy cue. So I keep putting him down then but then without fail he's up after an hour. He's basically putting in 13+ hour days with one hour of nap. I'm waiting for the OT meltdown, but hope to figure something out for him soon. I try to AP a nap at about 4:30 and he'll get all comfy and sleepy, and as soon as I put him in his crib he wakes up. If I hold him the entire time, he'll nap though. So, I've done that twice this week. Even with the CN he'll go to bed about 7:30ish.
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Karen, I tried to do BT 30 min. early but he just stared at me until his regular BT
Lol! Bless him!
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DS is now on this routine: WU 6:15, Nap 9:50-10:30 (I wake him), Nap 1:50-4:20 (he wakes up himself), BT 7:45...BUT that was because DD was sick and at home, rather than at school. Now today she is going back to school and so I need to pick her up at the bus and that means getting DS up at 3:30...so he will have 1.5hr of sleep instead of 2.5...WWYD? Should I put him to bed earlier tonight? 7 instead of 7:50??? I want him to get his solid sleep (doing great on almost 14hrs of combined sleep) but really scared he will stick to his 10.5h nights and be up at 5:30!!!
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I'd try early BT...but my LO would still sleep his regular time :) All you can do is try though right??
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LOL! That is what I am worried about kimmbba!! :) You're right though - might as well try and see what happens! He might surprise me!!! Or I might be up EARLY tomorrow. :)
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Hey everyone, J just turned 1 last week and we've been having quite a lot of 1 nap days for the past 3 weeks. They started off nice and long (2hrs30-2hrs50mins) and he was getting more sleep on 1 nap days than 2 nap days anyway. He was a little more restless at night (just doing a few cry outs - not needing us) but was sleeping about 12 hours and still waking at 7am. It seemed to be going well!
For the past 5 days he has been waking at 90mins on the dot. Today I tried to get him to take an AM nap (had been limiting to 10mins) but he declined. So I quickly gave him lunch and milk and raced him home (we'd been out but he is used to taking his AM nap out - we've done it all his life and I have a bed that I take with me) and he was in bed at 12.
I feel like we're getting in a bad cycle. Even if I put him to bed early he won't go to sleep before 1815 at the earliest). He will still only sleep 12 hours so he's not catching up. Daylight savings ends this weekend too so waking at the 6 o'clock hour is going to be the 5 o'clock hour.
He is teething but meds before nap today didn't help. Yest and today he didn't cry when he woke and stayed in bed for an extra 30mins before insisting he wanted up. He's had a dirty nappy both days when I've gone in.
Advice anyone? Will this get better when this bout of teething is over?
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Mama2c-how did your night go?
Kimmba-I don't know about the A time! I wonder that myself. When are they supposed to be ready for 6A time?
Ede-welcome! Sounds like your lucky to have 1 nap days this early! For day light savings you start to push everything by 15 min every 3 days. It may take a bit to adjust. I am not sure about the teething, sorry!
Yesterday for us was 5am wake Ap until 6. Nap at 11 for 1.5 I planned on a CN at 5ish but we had guests and he was too OS. BT was 7pm. He slept until 5:45am!!! This is huge for him as 6am is our wake time!!!! So I will hope for the same today! I think 6.5 is too long an A time but it seemed to work. This may mean a little OT today or this maybe his time???? I wonder the same as Kimmba, is 6.5 ok for this age??
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Jenny, teeth definitely make things crazy. For us it's usually terrible nights, with lots of NWs. They aren't long ones, but more like he's waking because he's uncomfortable even with meds.
Yesterday I did nap at 5:10A and he slept 1 hour 20 min and woke happy. I'm going to try again today. He also slept 11 hours last night. I hate to resign to the fact tha he only needs 12 hours of total sleep but it seems it may be the case? He has had several good nights even with only one hour naps...I have mixed emotions about that. He's never been a great sleeper or napper though, so I'll take what I can get I guess!
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Kimmba-mine is the same! Never that much sleep!
Right now I have 2 babies down at the same time!!! He did 6A before nap. We shall see how long he sleeps and work out BT from there!! The weather is good so I can get them outside to let out some energy!
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Lulu - our night went well. BT for DS was at 7:15 and he chatted to himself for a while and was asleep by 7:30. DD has a cough and she had a bit of a coughing fit at 2:40am and it woke DS up...he just talked and played in his crib and fell asleep after about half an hour. He woke up this morning a little after 7am!!! WOAH!
DS tends to do 12.5hrs total but I really think he needs more, especially with his constant walking...so I am really trying to get more sleep out of him...at least to 13hrs!! I have found that while he can sometimes do really long A times, he gets OT after a while and it leads to consecutive EW so I have to be really careful!
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Dear all, seems like alot of us are having great nites, hope that continues!
I had a little mother-baby gathering the other day, and find that a lot of the babies(10-14months) are having 12ish hrs total sleep, some do longer nites and 1hr nap, some do 9hrs nite and 3hrs nap, so mayb 12hrs sleep is not that uncommon? Those mothers are not doing BW, they let their lo sleep when they want and for as long as they want, so it is a sleep buffet for their lo.
dd was doing great on one nap for the past 10days, sttn (not even a cried out) for 9ish hrs at nite, 2ish hrs nap. But last nite she had a few brief cried out, didn't woke me enough to check on her but she woke with a fever! It's her first fever after birth (other than after vaccination ones) and I have no idea what to do and what caused it. Her A is short today, an hrs less than previous ones. I suppose I should let her rest as much as she wants?
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ccawc, when Ethan is sick or feverish I kind of just follow his lead. If he wanted to sleep more (which hasn't really happened) I'd let him. He usually couldn't handle normal A times, and needed more naps rather than long ones.
Today E slept for 1.5 hour nap, regular BT and hopefully he'll have a good night. He has had several decent nights with these shorter naps. Not long, but no NWs either. We had a full busy day today, so hopefully he sleeps well!
Hope everyone is doing well
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thanks kim, I found that dd is doing exactly like u said, napping short but often. I spent 4hrs in the clinic/ hospital waiting to collect urine sample but still couldn't find out why dd is having a high fever (39.1)( no other signs) and will have to sent her urine sample in tomorrow.
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ccaawc, did they collect urine to check for urinary tract infection? Is the fever steady and only goes away with meds? We've only had one ear infection here, but that was the one time his fever came and stayed. With the colds it was just one day, and then gone.
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Mama2c-great news on the long night. Sorry to hear that your DD is sick. When my DD was sick she was up coughing all night too! It's hard! You can only hope that one or the other doesn't wake up!! Good thing your LO went right back.
cc-that 12 hours sounds interesting. I haven't read anything about it, but it does seem common!! I hope your Lo gets better soon. I have a friend who's DD had fevers with no other signs and the doctor said she had fluid in her ears from previous ear infections. You may also want to keep your eye out for a rash in the next few days. My DD had that when she was younger and it turned out to be Roseolla (not sure if I spelled that right!). I always let my 2 sleep whenever they want when they are sick. I try to stick close to the norm as best as I can so that it's an easier transition when they get better.
Kimmba- enjoy the routine for now! I understand how you are just waiting for it to go sour!! I hope it doesn't for you!!
We had 3am wake with a huge poo! I gave him too much fruit yesterday and spicy food for dinner! Yikes! Of course he wouldn't go back to sleep w/o me so we AP until 6:30. 6A with 40 min nap at Grannies. 3A with car ride home and some AP he had another 40 min nap. 4A and 8pm BT. Hopefully no NW tonight!!
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I need some advice. We went out this morning, missed regular naptime and he fell asleep in the car for 10 min MAX. I tried to put him straight to bed but he just popped up laughing. I waited an hour, and he went down. So he was up for7 hours 20 min. with 10 min. dosing in the car. I think I'm going to wake him in 15 min, which will be an hour and a half nap (which is pretty "normal" for him) but it will be 3:30 pm. Do I still try a normal BT at 7:30?? Usually he's up for 5.5-6hours from nap to BT and then sleeps 10.5-11 hour night....hope I'm not up until 9:30 with him!!
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Oi that is a hard one Kim. I would say try and see what you get. Because Ethan had such a long A time this morning and then you will wake him from his nap, he might still be tired enough by the time BT rolls around. At least then you won't miss his window, altho it sounds like he is the energizer bunny!! Good luck.
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Oanh, he definitely has a lot of energy. He ended up waking himself 5 min. before I planned (typical!) He was still tired and crying but wouldn't go back to sleep. So I'm going to still do regular BT since he woke like that. If he fights it, we'll just be hanging out in his room longer...won't be the first time :)
Better eat something incase he gives me a run for my money!
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well, he was tired and crabby the entire time he was up (4 hours) we went into his room to go to sleep and it took me 45min!! No crying, unless I left, just kicking legs, laughing, talking, on and on. I think it's just from the late wake up, so hopefully it'll be an uneventful night!
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Glad to hear Kim. FX'd that your night is good.
I'll be joining this thread too. We've been trying one nap days on and off, but always tricky as J only sleeps 10hrs max at night and he wakes pretty early in the morning. Need to figure this out as his average A times in between naps is now 12hrs30min which is making BT very late. Like tonight it was 9pm and the last A time was over 5hrs on a 40 min nap!!!! UGH. I just dread the thought of a 4:30am WU if BT is at 6:30pm.
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Two questions, if your LO wakes at 5am and cries for about 15 min but goes back to sleep for 40 min and then up, do you count from 5am or 6am for A time?
Is 8 hours at night normal? This is all he will do!!!
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lulu - would count A time from when he truly wakes, so 6am. Can't really comment on 8hrs sleep at night, but my gut says that is really low.
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I think 8 hours is very low...even for my LO who doesn't sleep a lot in general. I think on the low end for total sleep they should be getting around 12 hours.
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Well, it's 8 hours at night and 2-3 during the day. I have been pushing his BT later to get a full night sleep for me! I have counted and he does anywhere between 8-9.5 at night. Since then he has needed more day sleep. I just can't break him of the 5am habit unless I add a pm nap and late BT. I get wake time closer to 6 when he does this.
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Lulu I would say try and cut down the amount of nap hrs, to maybe 1.5-2 max? But space them out if you can. Our DD does seem to be lengthening her nights a bit (from 10hrs to 11hrs more or less) when we have 2 naps that add up to 1.5-2 hrs in total. She is 16.5 months, typically we do 4hrs40 A, 40min nap, 3hrs A, 1 hr nap, leaving us with 4hrs for the last A.
Just a thought.
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That's great Spodnic. Thanks! I will try that!
Two nights ago he did 11hours at night. I was so excited. He made some noised between 12-3am but nothing to get up for. Then When I got him up in the morning I realized he had been sick all over his bed. He wasn't feeling well, that is why he slept for so long!!
Today he was up at 5:40 with BT at 7:30. This is good for him! He did CN in car for 20 min after 3.5A and 3A time with 2.5 hr nap. WOW! At Grannies! He often does better there!! I don't think he is feeling totally better yet, but I will take it! BT tonight I will watch him so far it's 4.5A. This is either just because he is sick or he is going through a change. This could be good news!!!
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Hi,
I am in the same boat ladies..My DS is 13.5 months old and we did long am short pm for the last 3 months. Everything was fine till three weeks ago. He had 4 teeth at a time, SA started and had a big A jump simultaneously and everything went crazy with lots of NWs.Now it seems that we are slowly back on track (he sttn for the last 4 nights- except one brief NW last night-) DS is refusing pm naps alltogether for the last 2 weeks as it is clear that he is UT for it. Our nights are 12+ so nap is only 1.20 minutes and that is all he gets during the day and I took BT 40 minutes earlier to dismiss OT risk. Here is our routine:
8:00 wu (I do not know when he wakes up this is the fixed time I get him from his crib)
12:30-13:50 nap (it is exactly 1h20m)
19:20 BT
When he wakes up from his nap he is clearly happy and chats and plays tries to go back to sleep etc.. till I get him. So I believe that this is UT nap. I need two hours nap to make it to BT so today I asked the nanny to try:
8:00 wu (after 12:40 NT sleep)
13:00 nap
What do you think?
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Hi Derya
I think you're right. It sounds like you've got it almost perfect!
We are in chaos, 9 hr nights, 5-8 NW, EW, through colds, tummy bugs and teething, lets hope it all stabilises soon.
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Sounds great Derya!
Sorry to hear that things aren't going well for you Spodnic. I hope your house gets better.
We have had two weeks of flu, cold and pneumonia from both kids! Urgh! He is getting his molars too! So we are back to 2 naps. 10am and 2pm both for an hour with BT at 7:30pm. He is doing much better with the EW's! They seem to be working themselves out! This is good!
I hope everyone else is doing ok??
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lulu, u are not alone, we are having 8hrs nite here as well.
After a week of high fever due to viral infection, we are back to sq one. For the last 2 weeks till now we have multiple problems, feeds in the middle of the nite, cot refusal, NW and EW, late BT and 2 naps a day.
I have been sleep training my lo for the last 5 days (no nite feeding, no AP in falling asleep and no co-sleeping), there is progress but it is still not perfect yet. I am amazed at how easily bad habits formed at this age, only a few times of nite feeding and co-sleeping have ruined all the good work for the past 7 months!!
I have the same problem as lulu, our nites have been shrinking from 9.5-10hrs to 8ish hrs, naps are bad as well, from 2-2.5 to 1hr15-1hr45. I am guessing that it is the 2 naps ( and the subsequent short A times) that is the cultprit. NW could due to anything, esp when there is a prop problem so I can't point my finger at OT or UT.
Our EASY looks like this:
5:30 WU
11:00-12:40 nap 1 or 9ish ( 1 hr) nap 1
4:30-5:00 nap 2 or 3ish (1 hr)nap2
8:30 put to bed, doesn't fall asleep until 9
1ish NW
BT, WU and NW has been like this for a few days, I have been trying to get her back on track to one nap but since her wu is so early and her nap so short, I can't not offer her another pm nap and last A has become short (4 to 5 hr) which previously was 6 to 7.5 hrs and that had given us 9-10 hrs of sttn.
I AP a 20min nap at 9:05 this morning after 5:30 wu, hoping that she can have a long mid-day nap that covers her till BT. I don't know if this is a good move or it will reset all the effort of 5 days of sleep training....
advice anyone?
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ccaawc - how old is your lo again? When we were doing 2 naps and my DS would EW at 5:30am, I wouldn't put him down until 10am and I would get at least 1.5hr nap. Then second nap would be at 2:30pm and nap would be at least 45min - 1hr. BT then was around 7:30/8pm. Is this something you could try? Keep in mind to try this EASY for 3 days or so. This was what my DS was doing before we trans to 1 nap which has now been almost 2 wks. Good luck.
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thanks jackman, my lo will be 15months in a few days. We had completed the transition 1.5 month ago for mayb 10 days or so before she got an viral infection and sick for a week. Since then, her easy has been all over the place and we have been trying to get back on track for 2 weeks now.
last nite was the same after 7 hrs of last A. BT at 9, brief NW at 2 ( she cried a bit and resettled herself) and woke at 5:30am, another 8.5hrs nite. Should I accept the 8.5hrs and keep pushing the BT so we all get up at a more decent time or there is something I can do to get her to sleep more?
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I agree with Jackman, cc. Hang in there. I have had to cut my LO back in order to get him back on track again after all the sickness!
I have been doing what spodnic said. I went back to 4 A time first then slowly stretching it and shortening the am nap slowly. I have been doing pm nap between 2:30 and 4pm. No sleep past 4pm. He has been wanting to BT after about 3.5 A time before bed. The pm nap he has been fighting me but he seems to sleep long at this one. Looks like I will be keeping 2 naps until he can do longer A times in total. That is ok with me now! I will be working on bringing his pm nap closer to 2 in order to bring the two naps together. Does that make sense!!?
cc- 7 hrs last A time, YIKES! I would add a little nap. You suggested that to me before and it started to work!
My Lo does better with longer pm nap I have noticed. I would however go for a later BT in order to get later wake until it works out. That is just me! I like my sleep!
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Hello everyone, I will just update you as 10 days into our 1 nap transition, things *seem* to be going ok (watch it get jinxed now I've said it!).
I had 2 weeks of school hols to gradually shift AM nap to start at 12.45pm (school run). First few days I got DD to stay up at least an hour later that her normal 4hrs45 A time (she is 17 months). She only napped an hour first couple of days as her cough kept waking her when she came out of a deep sleep, put her to bed 30 mins earlier to compensate. Cough subsided, I was putting her down at 1115, then 1130, 1145 etc, you get the idea. I stopped watching her A time and just did the clock, which meant her A times varied from 5hrs40-6hrs10 ish.
Nap has lengthened to 1hr50-2hrs30 so far. I woke her today at 3.10pm so she is ready for her 7pm bedtime. Not sure if I could leave her til 4pm, I used to with my son. Will see how that goes over the next few weeks.
So ATM she is going down at 12.30, I just have to do the final push to 12.45 next week. Hope that doesn't mess things up!
The good news is EW has stopped! I had two 5.45 wake ups but that's it and today was 7.15am! This from a chronic 5.30 EWer!
Ladies, there is light at the end of the tunnel!
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Great news Spodnic! That is wonderful! I hope it continues this well for you from here on in!
It's good to know there is light at the end of the tunnel!!!
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wow, spodnic, so happy for u!
we are not doing too good here. mostly becos it is Easter holidays and we are out all day and sometimes dine out as well.
We had a 7.5hr nite last nite, and we had no STTN for almost 3 weeks. naps has extended to 2+hrs but A times have shorten to 3-4 hrs. I think dd is very OT.
I am thinking if I should let dd nap for as long as she wants during the day to catch up or if I should limit her nap so she does longer nite, but she doesn't sleep in no matter what.
really need some sleep....for myself
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cc-sorry you are not getting much sleep right now. I found that when I shortened his A times he slept better at night.
it has reduced the EW and NW.
I wanted to give him 5A times to get him to 1nap but he only slept an hour. So I cut his A time to 4 and he does 1hour. His next A time is 3-4. I watch for cues. He will sleep 45-70 min. Then last A time is 4-4.5. So he gets 2hrs naps in and he has been doing 10-11hr nights. He is just not ready for 1 nap yet. I sucks because I don't get Y time during the day but I spend that time with DD doing "school work." It's also calmer with 1 child than 2 so I get to have a cup of Jo. I also goto bed earlier so that I can deal with the 2 during the day.
It's hard but I know eventually we will get there! Chin up!
Also if you choose to limit her nap it could backfire or set a time that she can't sleep past to allow for max A time before BT. Just my thoughts!
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So DS was on 2 naps (6:30 wake, 9:45-10:30 nap - i wake him, 2-3:30 nap - i wake him, 7:30 bt) then I cut to 1 nap as he was waking up early (like 5:30, bright eyed and happy) so we did 5:30 wake, 12-2:30 (or 3) nap and 8pm BT. But still the 5:30 wake ups continued. We did the 1 nap routine for 4 days and we thought he was doing so well. WELL last night hit - in bed and asleep at 8 and then awake from 10:40pm-12:40am crying, unable to settle, jolting awake, needing to be cuddled (he is never like this!) and just showing signs of OT...his molars are coming but don't usually bug him much at night and I have him meds at 11pm and they ddin't help at all. Anyway, he was finally settled at 12:40am and woke up at 5:30 again crying, jolting awake, etc...I settled him on/off until I gave up and started the morning at 7:30...so today we try 2 naps. He had a nap at 9:15 and woke up in a mess of tears at 10 (the dreaded 45 min OT sign in our house!). Anyway, next nap was at 1 and so far he is sleeping for 2 hrs...
I will do a 7pm BT (before he gets OT)...what do you think? To me it seems like he was OT (jolting awake etc)...back to 2 naps it seems...
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Mama2C - I would agree that it sounds like OT. If anything you might want to try alternating 1 and 2 nap days, especially with a 5:30am WU. Although your lo napped 3hrs, having several days with 1 nap on such an early WU and long A's will lead to OT accumulation. My DS is 16mo and right now he wakes at 6ish and his nap is at 11:30am. So I think until your DS can handle longer A's without severe OT that surfaces after several days, I would try and do 2 nap days. It is unfortunate as the 2 naps are such a pain!! Hope your night is better.
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Thanks jackman! I think it might be a combo of OT and teeth...had a look in his mouth and I see at least 2, possibly 3 molars coming...he has been showing signs of teething the last couple of days... tonight I put him to bed at 6:30 - gave him meds before - and he played in his bed for 30 mins and then just cried and cried for me. I finally had to pick him up and cuddle him and he just wanted to BF (A big teething sign). I let him BF a little while and then put him back down in his bed and just had to rub his back for about 30 mins until his eyes started to close. He didn't want his soother and just finally fell asleep frm exhaustion. I am a bit worried about how the night will go - expecting a really rough night... :(
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Ahhhh teeth. Yes we are/have been going thru teething as well. Good that you gave meds at BT. If needed, try a dream meds around 2-3ish in the morn to get you thru and it might even help with the EWs. FX'd for a good night.
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Teething can be horrible can't it? He got his first molar about a month ago and was great with it - but now it looks like THREE are coming at once. Poor baby! I was really worried that he would wake up at the 45 min point but so far he has been asleep for over an hour...so hopefully he can get some solid sleep and me too...
I will try the meds DF...last night and today I did ibuprofen but it didn't really seem to help so I might switch to tylenol...
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Well, after a rough BT, the night was awesome. He was asleep at 7:40 and at 3:30am I gave him what was intended to be a meds DF but he woke up (he is a light sleeper). He sat up to take the meds and went right back to sleep. He slept until 7:30am!!!! He has never done a 12hr night! For the first time in a long while I woke up before him!!
SOOO what do I do today for naps?? Aim for one long one? What time? 12?? With an earlier BT and then perhaps tomorrow will be a 2 nap day? Or would you still do 2 naps?
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Me again - so DS was getting cranky, and when I asked him if he wanted to sleep, he headed for the stairs, so off he went for a nap. I'll keep it short, like 20-30 mins (assuming he does sleep!) and then he can have a longer pm nap. My DD cut out her am nap at 13 months and it was a breeze for us so I am not used to these 2-1 transition problems!
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Sorry I missed you Mama2c. There is probably a big time difference between where we live. I'm on the West Coast of the US.
I'm sooo glad your night was great! What do you think made the difference? It might have been the 2 naps and not pushing your DS to do one nap and causing OT. Sounds like your DS caught up with the 12hr night and still trying as he seems tired. When my DS has a good night, the next day he still seems a bit tired. I think it just takes their bodies a couple of days to recover from several days of OT. At this point, I would stick with the 2 naps even with the late WU as I think your lo is still quite young to be on one nap. Just to give you an idea of naps, when my DS was taking two we did something like this:
WU 6:30am
Nap 1 10:30am-noon
Nap 2 3:30pm-4pm
BT 7:30pm
We always did better with long am/short pm in case there was pm nap refusal in which case we did early BT. Hope your naps and night are a great one again!
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We never could get the long am/short pm as we pick up DD from the bus at 3:50 so he could only ever take a pm nap at 4 and he'd be too wired to sleep after being out and seeing his sister come home! Short am/long pm is the only option until the summer.
I'm actually surprised he slept 12 hrs...I really think the meds DF made a difference. I tried tylenol instead of advil and it worked so well. He was stuck in this awful 5:30 WU for a week so I think the EWs plus 1 nap just completely did him in! Going back to 2 naps is definitely what he needs.
He was completely ready for his pm nap today at 1 so I just went with it. No point in pushing him to go longer when he is already trying to catch up...right?
The reason I wanted to go to 1 nap was that he was sleeping too much during the day (30-40 min AM and 2-2.5hr PM) and was only doing 10-10.5hrs at night...perhaps I should just start to cut back the pm nap? Aim for a 1.5hr pm nap? I just feel bad always having to wake him...
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Good for you about following your DS' cues. That's always the best thing to do when they are sooo OT!!
Yes, I understand completely about trying to extend nights with one nap. That is a trap I think that alot of us fall into when we know we are in the midst of the 2-1. I tried the same thing when my DS turned one and it totally backfired on us. He was in an awful OT mess as he couldn't handle the A times needed to go to one nap (just keep in mind that lo's need to do at least 4.5-5hrs to trans to 1 nap). In the end, it took us a week to overcome the OT by going back to 2 naps and I did what you suggested, started cutting our naps. I would try a combo of 45min and 1.5hrs to see if it helps with NT sleep. I never really had luck with the 30min naps as I hated the thought of waking DS too. Basically, after trying 30min for about a week, we took the leap and that was around 15mo. Good luck.
Glad the dream meds worked. :-)
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Mama2c, if by watching your LO's cues you find he is ready for a nap around 4.hrs A time I would let him sleep as long as he wants and do one nap day. Even if he only sleeps 2hrs you could do an early BT after another 4.5hrs. This is the typical routine we were doing at 13mo and it worked great especially when he was doing 3hr naps like your DS seems to also be able to do.
It could be that it was the massive 6.6hr A times after an EW at 5.30 and then another long A time resulting in a long day overall with BT at 8pm that was causing your LO to be so OT with one nap rather than just the one nap itself iyswim?
Anyway, if as Oanh says you find 3.5hrs is a better A time for him then 2 naps would be better.
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Thanks so much for your replies jackman and Cadie's mum!!! He has always needed a short morning A time...as a newborn I would nurse him, change him, sing to him and put him to bed...about a 40 min A time! I'll try cutting his naps back for a bit and see how it goes...
We're also starting to experience SA at BT so I will need to find a board to figure that out!!
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Argh! Back to EW this morning! Was asleep at 7:30 last night and woke up at 5:30am this morning! Exhausted this morning and would have slept at 8 but had to wait until 9 (until we got back from DD's bus) so letting him sleep til 10...What is causing these EWs? Teeth? Is he still OT?? :( I have a rough time with these EWs! He has been doing them ever since these molar started pushing through - over a week ago!! Does it usually last this long?
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Unfortunately yes to the teething causing the EWs and taking a very loooooong time to finish. We've been dealing with them for what seems like months and we only have one which means three more to go for us. So sorry to hear about the EW again this morning. Did you do a meds DF again? I would assume yes as it worked for you yesterday. Hope you have good naps today.
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Arrgh!! I'm back. Pushing DD an extra 20 mins for a first nap at 12.50 seems one step too far, so I'm stuck with 1hr naps for the time being it seems. Early BT seems to be working so far. Hope her morning WU time doesn't start slipping back, because then I'm back where I started. Doh!
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We're sooooo done with two naps! Things have been going fine with one nap days but a couple of days ago I gave him a second nap and what a mess that was! Had to do two naps the day after as well due to ew and as soon as he had a decent night the night after, that was it, back on one nap and fine since. Although only about an hour nap at my brothers today so 6pm bedtime.
Hopefully he won't be up too early but seeing as my 3.5 year old went to sleep for the night at 5pm I imagine we'll (well dh as it's his turn!) be up quite early anyway!
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I have a new delema! I have been able to AP his sleep to 6:30/7am with 2 naps. He had one day with Daddy (OS) so he did later am nap. He has only ever done 1 hour and did 1 hour that day. He got a hold of some of DD's chocolate close to pm nap time and was OS. BT wasn't until 7:30pm. Then I got a 4am with wide awake LO until 5:45. Then he slept until 6:30.
Today was a day with Granny so OS again later am nap only 1 hour and complete pm nap refusal! I tried for 2 hours!! So BT at 7pm. I am expecting early wake again, URGH! OT loop again!!!
My question is acctaully, now that he is sleeping later, or was, what is a good am nap time for a 7am? And then pm nap time?
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lulunut - I feel like I am in the same boat as you....! Sooo frustrating. I have been working on a short AM nap (30 mins) with 2nd nap 3hrs later but DS refuses a nap at that time and will only take a nap after at least 5hr A and then we have a 9pm BT...so I am actually thinking that I just have to bite the bullet and go with one nap, around 11:30 or 12 until 1:30 or 2 and BT by 6:30 or 7...and if he looks OT, have earlier and earlier BT...I remember when DD dropped her nap completely I just had to rely on early BT to help overcome OT...
SOOOO this morning I managed to get him to sleep until 6:15 and did a nap from 11:50-1:40...BT at 7 (I would have done BT earlier but DD needed some attention...dealing with school issues...). So he did two A times of about 5.5hrs...I am just going to stick with it for now and do some early BTs if he needs extra catch up on sleep...Or am I really asking for trouble!??!!
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Mama2c-I hear ya on the SOOO Frustrating! It drives me nuts! I got him out of it last time by cutting his am A time to 4 hours then 3 hours then 4 hours. This worked so well. It got rid of the 5am! Until Easter, with one night out late and this week has been crazy! Now he wants 4 hours first 5 second and 4.5-5 third. Urgh! With EW as well!! Besides, I am the only one who can get him down for pm nap! So this doesn't work so well on days I work.
Tonight was 6:30 BT in car. I got him in his night time diaper and PJ's without him even waking up! So cute!
I am prepped for EW and possible NW! I hope the plan works for you Mama2c! Early BT for me tonight!!!
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lulunut - I hope it works out well too! I just can't keep switching things up on him. Seems like he gets confused...He has been cutting molars and he had a NWing several days into the 1 nap switch and I assumed it was OT but maybe it was teeth...he really does so much better with 1 nap...and I think I got scared off it with the NWing... Don't you hate it when you anticipate EWs? DS seems fixated on 5:30 WUs...I have tried so many things and I really think he is just an early riser...my dad was always up before 6am so perhaps he inherited that!!
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Mind if I join you ladies? We are in the 2-1 as well. :P Well, we made the jump to 1 nap around 11mos and actually DS2 has been doing quite well with it, but he is getting OT and so I've been throwing in some 2 nap days. He has seemed to need 2 naps more often lately. If he does 1, it is often short, 1.5hrs or less. But if he does 2 than he will nap better, 20mins in the morning and then 2hrs in the afternoon. Thing is, he won't always take 2 (like today), or on other days we have activities in the morning so we just stick to one.
It hasn't been too painful of a transition though, luckily! I remember it being much harder with DS1. He is due for molars any time though so I'm sure that will ruin anything good we've got going. ::)
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Hi Martina! Ooooh the molars threw us off track. We were doing 1 nap for a while and then one molar came and he needed 2 naps and then we tried 1 again and then more molars have come. I have recently gone back to 1 nap with early BT if needed. It is hard though. DD did the transition beautifully, pain-free! Not so lucky this time!
Last night we had a 1.75hr NW!!! After an hour of rubbing his back (ooooow my back!) I gave him tylenol and after about 20 mins he relaxed and fell asleep. So thinking the NW was more teething-related than OT...
Trying the noon nap again and we'll see how it all goes. I expect some early BTs for a while...
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Hi ladies
Mama2C - after a 30 min AM nap, I found my DD could only handle 2hrs45 A time. If I left it 3 hrs she took ages to fall asleep. Sorry that probably throws a spanner in the works for ya! Good luck with the teething.
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Yes, I expect F to need more 2 nap days while these molars are cutting. They should be coming any day now, then again I've been thinking that for like a month. ::)
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spodnic...oh no really? I really really really don't want to go back to 2 naps. I guess I'll see how the week plays out. Today he had a 2.5hr nap from 12-2:30 and BT at 7:30 (took him a while to fall asleep). I hope we don't have a NWing...!
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Mma2c-We have molars here too! I too hate 2 nap days, especially with DD1. No time for me!!! But I enjoy the later wake time more I think! We had 1 hour NW last night as well! I expected him to wake again a few hours later but he went until 6am!! I was impressed. This was 12hours with 1 hour NW in the middle.
Martina-11mts you got 1 nap! Good for you! I was still on 3 naps at that time!!! LOL! How old is your LO now? I hear ya on the OS! My LO refuses to go down for any sleep after excitement! We have to do lots of down time before naps!
2 naps today. 10am with struggle! 1 hour. 3:30pm nap with struggle, Granny had to get him down. BT was at 8:15. I am hoping for later BT!!!! And no NW!!!
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lulunut, he is 12mos now. We do 1 nap probably about 5 days a week. I have been doing more 2 nap days recently because he seems to need it. Two weeks ago I think he was going through a GS and was sleeping well, and taking 1 2-2.5hr nap everyday! Now it is often 1.5hrs. So he needs some catch up days. Though today he napped about 1hr 45mins which isn't bad.
I think it was a little early to jump to 1 nap, my DS1 wasn't on 1 nap properly until probably about 16mos! But with a toddler at home as well, I kinda pushed him so that we could get out more, and he's been doing really well with it.
So he does 1 nap on the mornings that we have activities, but if I'm home in the mornings (which isn't often!) then I'll try for 2 if he'll take it.
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Lulunut - how was yesterday and today? Any better?
We had a 2hr NWing two nights ago, a great 2.5hr nap yesterday, early bed and a 5:20am WU! Sigh. Oh well. This morning he took a 2.5hr+nap from 9:15-11:55 and a catnap from 4:15-4:45 (I woke him). Put him down at 7:30 and he is still awake chatting to himself (it's past 8!). I guess the catnap gave him more energy than I hope! I think we'll be doing some alternating of 1 and 2 nap days for a bit...molars cutting more this morning. Since he is going to bed so late I am keeping fingers crossed that he isn't up as early as this morning!
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Well two days ago I went for 1 nap with him. I wanted a nap! I put DD down at 11:30 and DS at 10:30 (with 6am wake). I had hoped DD would do 2 hours as she usually does....nope! DS did 1 hour (as usual) I AP him for another hour which took us to DD's wake time of 1:15. My plan was foiled but I did get some day sleep. He of course did PM nap refusal. So early BT at 6:30. I had a 2 hour NW as well from 1:30-3:30. With a 6am wake. He did perfect 10am and 2pm 1 hour naps yesterday with 7:30 BT. Today no NW and 5:30 wake. I took him to a play group today. He slept for 10 min in the car and tried him at 10:30 when we got home. He was too OS. Now he is yawning so I am going to put him down and DD at 12pm. I will get about 30 min Y time. Sounds good to me!!
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Wow - no fun! NW and EW? Sigh...It's amazing how the slightest thing can just get them off track - like OS, OT, short nap..they all mess with sleep! Today DS woke at 6 and I had to go to an appointment at 11, but he was exhausted so I did a 20 min nap at 10:25-10:45 and then put him down again at 1 and he chatted for 10 mins and then HE FELL ASLEEP! I don't know if this is a one-time thing but I'm happy for now. Not sure whethere I should just let him sleep as long as he wants (he can go 2.5+hrs sometimes) or wake him after 1.5hrs to get a 7pm BT...
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Mama2c-Does he not usually fall asleep on his own? That is great!! It's always good when they start doing that! I remember with DD we would complain about when we could stop rocking her. Now she gets rocked for about 5-10 min and put into bed and she goes on her own. We miss it now!! How did your night go?
Yesterday nap was 1:15 and 1:15 with me. BT at 7:30. There was a poo and he peed on me and all over his jammies, Ahhh! NW at 2:30am and EW at 5am with AP until 5:45! Even with a 2.5 nap yesterday, don't get it!!!
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I seriously don't get their sleep either!!!
DS always falls asleep on his own... I was just surprised that he fell asleep so easily after a short A (but I guess it was due to the short nap)...
Yesterday I put him down at 10:30am after a 4.5h A time and he sleep for 2h45 min and then had a 5hr A time with BT at 7:15 and slept for 12hrs - until 7:20am!! He was a bit restless and woke up a little at 4am but fell back asleep with only a few back rubs. He has a new molar so perhaps he had a better night as it has pushed through? Trying the same A times today and same BT... yesterday we were out a lot walking by the beach so he may just need more activity and fresh air to get a good sleep?
I got over 9hrs of sleep myself last night which is sooooo great. Maybe it was a little Mother's Day gift from him?
How was last night for you??? Do you think that his NWing is due to teeth? Or perhaps UT? How is he during his NWings? When DS has NWs, he is always wide awake but happy to just lie down and rest while I rub his back, no crying unless I don't go to him...
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Mama2c-Wow! That is great! Now if you could just get him to do the 2.45 at 12pm, life would be great!!! Today at Grannies he did something similar, he did 2 hours at 9:30am after 3 hours A time. (5:45am wake) Then 30 min in car and home after 4.5 A time. I did BT at 8pm. Usually if I get 2 naps I get a good night. I just wish his times would go closer together rather than further apart!!! 9 hours straight sleep! Good for you!! You deserve it!!
I had a NW 2 night s ago at 3:30. He is good if I hold him and then put him back in crib. He tends to be quite restless for about 30-40 min sometimes. Kicking, playing with his hands, but his eyes are closed. Not sure??? No crying unless I let go of him!! So sometimes I am rubbing his back for a while if I don't pick him up. It's good for the hamstrings!!!
NW, could be both teeth, we have one more molar to pop however they aren't fully through yet. OT or OS could be the problem, the weather has been great so lots of outside activities! I think some OT because of the wacky nap times. It all depends on his wake time. It's sort of hard because he can go 5.15A time Max but he won't sleep more than 1.5 so that doesn't leave enough time to make BT at 7-8. I have to get another CN in the afternoon which can sometimes be difficult and this usually causes NW. I think this whould work out by summer, hopefully!!
How was your day today?
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NWs are so awful! I find them draining especially if WU is early too!
Well, after the great 12hr night, we did a one nap and he only had 9.5hrs of night sleep from 8-5:40. Sigh. So yesterday I did a 20 min CN in the Am (9:20-9:40) and then his long nap from 12:15-2:15. BT was at 7:15. This morning he woke up at 6:15 (11hrs!!!) and so I did the same nap times...9:20 for CN and 12:15 for nap. BT will be at 7:15. I am going to try to stick with these set times and see if that helps. I think he needs a long mid-day nap but can't manage such a long morning A time so the cat nap seems to help. Can you ever try a short morning CN?? I wake him after 20 mins. I tried 30 mins and it just didn't work for us, so I shortened it to 20 and so far he seems to like it. I usually just pick him up gently and nurse him to get him to wake up. It's a peaceful transition and then he can do 2.5hrs of A before his long nap.
I know what you mean about outside activities. DS can't take a nap right after an outing... he needs a transition so I give lunch or a snack. Seems to help him drift off more easily and stay asleep.
Reading about the NW - eyes closed and kicking etc... DS would do this when he was leaning something new... has there been a new development? Jumping? Kicking a ball? Perhaps he is practising in his sleep!!! DS cries during his NWs unless I am rubbing his back etc... but his eyes are almost always open.
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I did try the short am a while ago. Things were a bit messy then. Maybe I could intro it again. My work schedule is not always the same and I only work PT so sometimes I just let Granny go with the flow. Also our activity schedule sometimes messes things up. We just do the best we can!!
Today was 5am wake with AP until 7am. This got him until 12pm for nap. We shall see how long he goes. Right now the neighbour is banging outside so it may not last long, BOOO!
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Oh Booooooo! One of our neighbours walks soooo loudly all night long. It drives me crazy. It also wakes DS quite often. She is just a heavy walker and can't help it but booooo.
What do you do to AP for 2 hrs? DS wants to nurse and get up. This morning it was at 5:40...but he went to bed at 7:15 so it was almost 10.5hrs which isn't bad.
I know what you mean about just doing the best you can. Sometimes that is all you can do!! And get to bed early yourself in preparation for another early morning. Thank goodness it's nicer weather though... it'd be awful to wake up that early in the dead of winter.
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Mama 2c- DD sleeps for about 2-2.5 hours so I have that time at pm nap if I am lucky. I rock him and hold him until he is comfie and then lay down with him next to me. He doesn't move! He likes to have his hand on my boob! In the am I just pick him up and he drops into my arms and we lay down together. He loves to snuggle next to me. I have to admit, I love it too!!
I used to fight the EW and spent a lot of time stressing over how to fix it. It became too much of a waste of energy. So, now I just go with it. I am much more relaxed and it won't last forever. I can't complain, he sleeps most of the night on his own. It may just mean that when he is out of his crib he will come into my bed in the am until he is 6 years old, but I will miss it when he is older!!
How did your day go?
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lulunut - I wish DS would lay down with me in the morning... I try but he just wants to get up and play!! He has never really wanted to sleep in bed with me which isn't a bad thing I suppose. We had a great day yesterday and a great 20 min am and 2hr pm nap and BT at 7:15. He was up at 6 which really isn't so bad. DH took him after he was nursed and I got to sleep an extra hour which I REALLY needed!
Your DD still has such a long nap? Wow! My DD cut out her nap around 2yrs 11 months but she would only really ever do a 1hr or 1hr 15 min nap anyway. WHen she cut her nap out I insisted on some quiet time in her room so I could have a break!
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MAM2c-Yes, not sleeping with you is a good thing. There is a mattress in his room so we sleep on that. My DH hasn't woken up with me next to him in a long time!! Sounds like your day went well! 6am is better than 5am!!
Yes, my DD has a long nap still. She needs it maybe not that much but it has been working in my favour so I am not complaining! She will have to change it by next fall when she goes to pre-school full time. I am not sure they still nap. They may for a bit. Just when I get him on one nap, she will have no nap!!!
Today was 4:40am, he couldn't get comfie and dozed off for about 20 min and then got the hic-ups. So we were up at 5:30!!! We had an activity at 9am. He fell asleep in the car for about 10 min and then went down at 11:30. For about 1.25hr. He refused afternoon nap so BT is at 7pm tonight. I expect some NW and EW for sure!! But I can always hope!! DD did this about this age, so we just pushed her and kept early BT. It eventually worked out. We went through lots of NW at that time but by about 20mts she was sleeping through and doing 2 hr naps.
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I could use some help here, just beginning the 2-1 with an 18 mth old. She had been doing this schedule till the last week or so:
Wake-7:15
Nap one-10:30/11 am-12 pm
Nap two-2:30/3 pm-4 pm, sometimes 3:30-4:30
Bed-8 pm
Problem started that she wouldn't always take the 2nd nap and when she did, she was falling asleep at 4 which is much too late. My goal is to have her and DD1 napping at the same time. DD1 is 4 and has been falling asleep around 2:30 so it was working great as they were both in bed for about 2 hrs in the afternoon. So today, I let DD2 sleep in till 8 am and put her down at 1 pm and DD1 down at 1:45. DD2 woke crying at 1:40, probably after 30 min sleep and still is not back asleep an hour later. I plan to leave her there till 4:30 or so. So was it just too long A time? We have done a few one nap days when we had stuff to do and she had gone to bed around noon and slept for 2-3 hrs. That would have been about 4 hrs A time and today was 5 hrs A time. I just cannot put her down at noon, DD1 has morning activities and that is lunch time and then they would not be sleeping at the same time. Any suggestions??
Thanks!
Aileen
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DD2 woke crying at 1:40, probably after 30 min sleep and still is not back asleep an hour later. I plan to leave her there till 4:30 or so.
Do you mean leave her in the cot? What is she doing all this time? Not crying is she?
If your DD2 us used to having a nap at 10.30/11 I think it is a huge jump to expect her to wait until 1pm for her nap even with a later WU. If you want her to have a long nap in the afternoon when your DD1 is sleeping the I would suggest letting her have a CN in the morning to help her get through the morning A time. So maybe something like:
WU 7.15
Nap one 10.30-11.00
Nap two 2.30 - 4.00
BT 8
I don't think you can expect an 18mo to be able to do anywhere near the same A time as a 4yr especially if she is only used to doing 3hr15 A times in the morning. It is too much, too soon ya know?
And can I just say I hope I am so lucky to have a 4yo who still naps for 2hrs!!! That would be nice.
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She does stay in bed, not crying, I wouldn't leave her crying. She cried out for a minute or two and then was quiet. We have a video monitor so I know she wasn't sleeping and I got her around 4 pm. Just to clarify, she has been doing about 4 hrs A time and I jumped it to 5 hrs. Maybe a bit long but the last two times we tried one nap days, we did about 4.5 hrs (wake at 7, nap at 11:30) and it was fine. We went from a 7ish wake up to an 8 am wake up and then pushed her a bit. I don't expect her to go down exactly the same but I just can't get her down much before 1 pm as DD1 has morning activities. I put DD2 down at 1, then read with DD1 and got her to bed 45 min earlier than normal so she slept from 2:15-4:15 so DD1 did fine with an earlier time. So 5 hrs A time is too long, she does 4 hrs usually so it seems 5 would be ok. What should I do tomorrow??
Also, we have tried the CN for 30 min and that still did not force the pm nap. It worked once but never again. Also, the CN has gotten so late that it cuts into playdates etc. It seems at 18 mths, she really should change.
Just wanted to add that a napping 4 yr old does come at a price, a short night. She is in bed by 9, not asleep till 9:30, and usually up by 7:30. I take cause I work part-time at home and need that afternoon time. I know it is on the way out.
Thanks!
Aileen
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Just to clarify, she has been doing about 4 hrs A time and I jumped it to 5 hrs.
Oh OK. I was basing those A times on the routine you posted above which I thought meant her first A time was 3hr15-3hr45 and her second A time was 2hr30-3hr30. I did think that was quiet short for an 18mo.
Moving from 4hrs to 5hrs is still a big jump proportionally though. I think you could certainly aim to reach the 5hr A time but she will probably need to do it in smaller increments to avoid OT. That might mean a few weeks of her napping at an inconvenient time though while she adjusts.
What if you aimed for a later WU at 8am and then napped her at 12.30. Do you think she would do a 3hr nap again?
Otherwise if you need to be out when she needs to start her nap would she go to sleep in the pushchair and continue it at home parked up somewhere?
I do agree that at 18mo she is probably ready for the switch to one nap.
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Just wanted to add that when we were doing the 2-1 transition, DS would take a 20-30 min AM CN but his A time after his CN was 2h30 min. Any longer A time would lead to resisting his second nap.
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After lots of sleep problems i've finally got kian on one nap. The problem i have is that he is only sleeping for 45mins at home and 1.5hrs at nursery. Will this lengthen with time? I don't know how he's doing it tbh lol x
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So she slept from 7 pm last night till we woke her at 8 am, a 13 hr night. I made a huge effort and got her down about 12:40. Then she didn't fall asleep till 1:25 and woke after 50 min, which is better than 30 min but still not enough. It is so hard to get her down at lunchtime, will it just settle out in a few days? I don't know how she did it those other couple times we did one nap days, the most recent was wake at 7ish, nap at 11:45 and before that she had one that was wake at 7ish and nap at 1. Not sure why those worked at all!
She is now begging to go to bed at 6:15 pm but I will need to wait till 7 pm, so much harder with two babes in the house!
Aileen
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Great news on the long night Aileen. It might take a while for her body to get used to the new routine so maybe try to stick with it for 3 more days and then reassess...?
Kiansmam - Does he get up for the day and then go go down for his nap at the same time at home and nursery? Could it be that the condidtions are different? How are his nights? Are they longer now he is on 1 nap?
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My k only did 1hrs nap when he 1st moved to 1nap but they soon lengthened out to 2hrs give or take 30mins so do give him time to get used to it.
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My DD did the same for a bit with 45 min-1 hour naps and 1-2 NW until she got used to it. My DS is now doing the same I can proudly say!!! Most days he does very well with 1 nap, we do 2 naps maybe 2x a week now! Yay! It does come with some NW and short naps but, I see light at the end of the tunnel!!
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Great news, she had another long night 12.5 hrs and then took a 2.5 hr nap after a 5 hr A time. I actually had to wake her cause we had a birthday party to attend. And the best news is that my 4 yr old has gone along with the whole schedule change, wants lunch at 11:30 and was asleep today at 1:30, YEAH! She actually seemed to welcome the earlier nap and it gave us an earlier bedtime so more couple time. We'll see how it goes...
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Hi everyone,
So last week we took the plunge and went down to 1 nap. It's going okay (not great, but okay) and I wanted some advice on how to deal with the 'hiccups' that come along with shifting routines like this!
So today, this is what their day looked like:
awake: heard someone around 6:15, they made enough noise to get up at 6:45
DS had a ~10 minute nap around 10 am in the stroller; DD had a ~5 min stroller nap around 11:30
Nap: 1:00 - 2:30 (DD woke up crying, she has been doing this for the last 2-3 months; she woke DS up)
I put them to bed for the night at 6:30 (since they only had a 1.5 hour nap all day), but DS didn't fall asleep until 7ish)
My "goal" day is bed 7-7, nap 1-3ish.
- do I still put them to bed for their nap at 1 - to get them used to it - or should it be earlier while they're transitioning?
- do I put them to bed early at night if they had a shorter nap or are up before a certain time?
- is it better to try and keep to 1 nap days, or should I be throwing in the odd 2 nap day to make sure they get caught up on sleep? Or is that too confusing for them?
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Hi Torontotwinmom. What was their day looking like before you moved to one nap? I am just wondering if you have given them a big jump in A time to move to this new routine. Is there a particular reason why you want the nap at 1pm? That seems very late to me and means they are up for 6hrs before the nap. If they are falling asleep in the buggy so long before this do you think they might like an earlier nap? My DS has been on 1 nap for 6mo now but still only does a little over 5hrs of A time before his nap. When we first moved to one nap we did 4.5hrs A time, 3hr nap 4.5hr A time.
To answer your questions:
Yes I would aim for a nap much earlier than 1pm, at say 11.30 or 12 depending on what you think is their ideal A time.
Yes I would go for an earlier BT if they short nap. I used to work with A times so would just go from what time they woke up from the nap.
It is very common to go from 1 nap some days to 2 naps other days. If you do 2 nap days you may only need a 20 min nap for the additional nap.
Have you seen these links?
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=163278.0
HTH
Ali
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Thanks Ali!
If they have an earlier nap (i.e., 11:30, 12:00 etc.) when do you serve lunch? And what do you do regarding bedtime?
Our 2 nap days went something like this:
wake ~6:30
nap1~ 9:40-10:10
nap2~ 1:40-3:00
bed 7:00
DS would take 30-45 mins to fall asleep at nap 2 and at bed.
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Yes you have to be a bit creative with meals when they nap at funny times. I would do either a big snack or half of lunch just before the nap and then lunch or the rest of lunch just after the nap, depending on when your LOs are most hungry.
What do you think is your LOs' ideal A time after a dedent nap? I would just make BT that length of time after the nap. So my DS's ideal A time is 5hrs after a 1.5hr or more nap so if he woke at 1pm then BT would be 6pm and if he woke at 2pm BT would be 7pm and so on.
So based on your 2 nap day routine, moving to a 6hr first A is a huge jump and I would recommend you do a much earlier nap and then move it later gradually based on their cues of when they are ready to do so.
Do you think they are ready to move to 1 nap already? If they are used to napping at 9.40am I would be tempted to keep the 2 naps for a while longer and gradually push that nap later and later so that you are gradually increasing A time. You know your LOs though so if you think they would be happier on one nap then do it by all means but I would definitely go with a much earlier time for it.
What do you think?
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I have no idea what their ideal A time is. We've been doing naps by the clock for the last 5 months or so, and it's worked well for us. Since Feb I've been doing bedtime no more than 4 hours from last nap.
Their morning nap was short (30mins), and I always had to wake them up from it. They do have a little mini-nap each morning now (en route to or from our morning activity). I'm surprised that the morning nap should be that much earlier?
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Hi, I am just after a little advice please with my DD's day. She has moved pretty well on to one nap now after months of muddling through the transition. For the most part her day goes...
wu - 7.00
S - 12.00-2.00 (sometimes 2.30)
BT - 7.00
Which is great. The problem is a few times a week she will wu at 6.00am. I know an 11h night is still good, but I then struggle with the next day in terms of shifting everything and she usually ends up doing a 13h day, which encourages the 11h night again and we get into a loop. I am wondering if the 13h day is causing OT, which then causes the 6am wu. Any thoughts on what I am doing wrong?
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Their morning nap was short (30mins), and I always had to wake them up from it. They do have a little mini-nap each morning now (en route to or from our morning activity). I'm surprised that the morning nap should be that much earlier?
Not quite sure if I completely understand, sorry. I think I might have not explained myself well though. I meant if you do one nap then that should be much earlier than 1pm so that they aren't awake from 7am to 1pm. Does that make sense?
Bex, I think you have a few options:
You can either keep her nap at 12 even if she wakes early. If you do this though I would try to keep the last hour low key like quietly reading or listening to music etc.
Or you can try to keep the nap 5hrs after her WU and see if she sleeps longer. If she doesn't I would go with an earlier BT so she isn't awake longer than 5hrs after the nap then hope she sleeps until her usual WU time the next day.
Alternatively you could try for a 2-nap day but keep one of the naps supershort (20mins) followed by a short A time.
You may have to play around with with these options to see which suits her best. Personally I normally go by A time from WU but don't let my DS nap before a certain time.
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Bex09- I don't know if this is the best idea b/c my LO still gets up at 5:30 sometimes but I used to push him longer A time in the AM. This didn't work in my favour at first but it has lately. He now takes a longer nap. I just add a small amount of time like 15 min. He is now slowly working towards a wake time of 6am (which is our proper wake time). I also find that if takes a nap longer than 2 hours he wakes earlier. Not sure why this happens!!
I am just happy that after months of 30 min naps he now does 1 nap at an average of 1.5hrs!!! I does happen ladies!!
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Can I pleeeeeeeeeeeease jump in here?? I'm ready to beat my head against the wall. Literally. Is anyone having ANY success and what did you do?
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Thanks Ali and Lulunut. If it starts happening again I will push her morning A time so that she still naps at 12 ish and hope that will correct our day. TBH since I posted we have been having different issues with BT refusal and long NWs. I am pretty sure that is all teeth related though and she has been sleeping in to make up for the lost sleep (until 8am this morning!) so our days have been great.
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Ambinsi - we just moved the morning nap later and let him sleep as long as he would which luckily was 2-3hrs mostly. Then we did an early BT if needed. What are you on at the moment?
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Thanks *Ali*...I saw your response after I wrote this so I'm going to post it anyway...this was my original message. I'm SO STRESSED!!
Alright ladies, I'm just going to jump in here and fill you in on whats going on with us. Hope that's allowed here...I never posted on one of these threads before. I have a separate post in this section below but since I'm 99.999% sure what's going on with us is 2-1 related I'm going to just jump in.
My DD is 14 months old. She was never a great napper and it took me a loooooooong time to get her on a routine. I had her 2 naps down to a science (eventually) but I want to stress here that her first nap was always better; longer, more restful and she went down with less of a fight. Her second nap was a struggle and I often had to resort to APOP to make it a decent one. In the past month or so things have changed dramatically and being 31 weeks pregnant, I just don't have the stamina to go through what I did the first time around - I'm desperate for a miracle!! Obviously I'll do whatever I have to do here to make this work as there is no other option but I'm finding it so much more stressful as I enter my 8th month of pregnancy.
What's going on is this:
After a usual 6:30/7am wake up, I was doing about 4 hours of A time which would lead to a nap of 1 - 1.5 hours. I would usually then do a 2nd nap 3.5 hours later which was usually shorter and it was harder for her to go down - she would often resist this nap, but I would make sure it happened no matter what. Bedtime was usually 7/7:30ish and if she was ready she would go down without much of a fight.
Now what is happening is the first nap has shortened....There is the occasional day where its super long and then I won't push a 2nd nap and will give her an early bedtime, but for the most part its shortened. She's also totally refusing the 2nd nap in the crib and other than resorting to putting her in the car so she'll fall asleep, I'm not sure what to do on that one. I believe she's becoming OT and bedtimes are becoming very stressful - crying and taking a long time to settle.
I'm in the process of messing with her morning A time to see if I can push that first nap back further...she just seems to be capable of staying up longer, although some days she seems like she's hitting the wall after 3.5 hours.
I guess my major concern is how to handle the 2nd nap. Eventually I hope to make her 1st nap around noonish and her second nap disappear, correct??
HELP
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Welcome Ambinsi. Yes you can just jump on and post on these support threads.
OK, so can you get a longer nap out of her if you push her A time to 4.5hrs? If so you could just do another 4.5hr (or so) A time after her nap with an early BT if needed. That is what we did and my DS's nights went back up to 12hrs whereas they had been 11hrs on 2 naps. What do you think?
It is hard to AP that second nap when they aren't quite ready for it and I remember doing it with DS later in the day which meant I had to wake him and still do a late BT.
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Thanks again *Ali*.....I'm going to try that tomorrow but the truth is that its been really hard here. I am having work done on my house and I've had contractors in here making tons of noise. Its not every day but on the days that they are here I've had to resort to napping her in the car which I know is not giving me an accurate assessment of what's going on. They will not be here all weekend so I will try 4.5 hours of A time tomorrow and report back.
It is hard to AP that second nap when they aren't quite ready for it and I remember doing it with DS later in the day which meant I had to wake him and still do a late BT.
I agree 100% and I've been falling into this trap for awhile. Its starting to feel counterproductive when I feel like my goal is to ultimately DROP that second nap. So do you suggest that if that first nap is still short I opt for an early bedtime and forget the 2nd nap?? The second nap is starting to ruin my life, honestly.
I guess I've been trying to keep it because I read on here to hold onto it as long as possible, AND to drop it and have an early bedtime would throw my whole routine off. I wouldn't know how to fit in dinner and her bedtime bottle, etc. I guess I was just used to a certain routine and was afraid to deviate.
As I write this we're going through a dramatic bedtime. I had short morning nap, a late AP'd 2nd nap which was also short, and then I put her in bed. She's extremely OT and getting hysterical. This is so hard.
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It is good to hang on to the 2nd nap as long as you can BUT if it just serves to make the day superlong and leads to OT and BT resistance then it really is not helping IMO.
I used to make the decision on the day as to weather we did a 1 or 2 nap day. If our morning WU was early I would aim for a slightly shorter morning A and 2 naps, especially if that morning nap was short. If DS woke at the normal time or later I would try to stretch the first A time and let him sleep as long he would. I also looked at what time he woke from the first nap and decided whether it would be realistic for him to make it to an reasonable BT. If it would mean a 5hr+ A time and we'd still have to do a stupidly early BT I shot for a 2nd nap. If I could keep the A time under 5hr and it meant BT would be 6pm or later I just did the one nap.
I know some people did a late mini-power-nap of 10-20mins just to help their LO make the extra 1.5hrs to a reasonable BT but I never really did that with DS. I normally let him have at least 30mins for that 2nd nap. It did get to the stage where he was going to bed at 9pm some nights though which was crazy (especially as DH and I eat dinner after DS goes to bed and Dh goes to sleep around 10pm so he can get up early for work) and we hardly got any downtime without him.
We actually jumped to 1 nap and 4.5hrs A time around 12.5mo. I think we were able to get away with this as DS was doing 3hr naps (which I sometimes had to wake him from). Prior to that we had been doing 3.5hr A times with 2 naps both of which I had been waking him from at 2hrs15 and 30 or 45mins.
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I think 9 times out of 10, the second nap is more difficult than its worth for the reasons you described. But then we'll have a day/night like tonight and it makes me question everything....
Today my mom watched DD while I had a doc appointment. We didn't discuss what time to put her down and she put her down when she felt DD was ready but she only slept for just under an hour. I knew that one short nap was NOT enough to last her the rest of the day so I felt like we had no choice but to APOP that second nap. Ugh. But...then it seemed to do the trick and she went down to bed with little fight. It was the least dramatic night we've had in awhile, so i was happy!!
Tomorrow I'm going to try for a longer A time...but I think the 4th is going to be difficult because we're having company. I think I'm going to try to sail through the weekend and not obsess and then reassess on Tuesday. :/
Thanks and I'll keep you posted. I appreciate the advice.
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Right, I'm coming to the conclusion that my original conclusion that my son wants 1 nap not 2 is right and that's what's contributing to the early wakings. I'm trying a short am nap as he's waking so early I can't get down to 1 nap yet. Any hints / tips?
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I'm back....still a little frustrated over here :(
The good news is that our bedtime drama seems to have subsided. I was out tonight and my mother put her down and she did fuss on and off for a little while but I think my mother might have put her down a little too early, thinking she was ready. But for the most part its been great - she's been going down without a fight!!
The bad news is that our naps are still frustrating. I've been trying to slowly push her morning nap later and later with frustrating results. The naps are not lasting longer, they are getting worse. She's been getting up at the half hour mark, crying a bit, and going back down but not for a substantial length of time. Today, her nap was about 50 minutes total of actual sleep, but it was broken and I'm not sure how restful it was. I had to force a second nap in the car which I'm starting to hate doing.
How to proceed with these naps?? Do you think that its possible that at 14 months old, she's just not ready to go down to one nap and I'm forcing the issue?? I know that the two naps are a struggle but I just can't seem to get her down to one nap.
What would you do at this point?
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How to proceed with these naps?? Do you think that its possible that at 14 months old, she's just not ready to go down to one nap and I'm forcing the issue?? I know that the two naps are a struggle but I just can't seem to get her down to one nap.
Definitely possible. Some babies don't move to 1 nap until 18mo or later, especially if they take short naps. It does sound like she is getting OT with the longer A times before her first nap if she is waking after 30mins and then going back to sleep. I would try cutting back the A time to closer to what she was doing before and stick with 2 naps for a while longer. I know it is annoying having to AP the 2nd nap but hopefully it will only be for a short time longer and she will be ready to start increasing again.
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Thanks....I guess you're right. I guess I was just hoping to be done with this transition before the new baby comes. When I'm home with a newborn I don't see how I'll be able to AP these second naps, so I was kind of trying to make sure it was all done by then. But if she's not ready, she's not ready. I know people say this a tough transition and it can take months....how will I know when she's ready?? I don't want to confuse her by constantly messing with her routine.
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Hang on there Ambinsi! Hugs for you!! I had success! It took a lot of work and time but it did eventually happen. He was 16mts before it was consistent. There were some 1 nap days and some 2 nap days. I pushed him and AP his naps some days to get it longer. He was a short sleeper. Early BT with AP in the morning (EW often) This worked for us. I too got very frustrated, but I found it made no sense to fight it. It just can not be controlled some days so I just went with it. Too much energy was waisted on being frustrated!!!
You just do the best you can and it won't last long. It's hard. I know mine are 19mts apart. I had to switch DD before DS came along. I honestly don't even remember how I did it!!! You are lucky to have this support here. It's wonderful.
DS sleeps 1.5 at nap and 10-11 at night with no NW now. It does happen so try not to worry. HUGS!!
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Thanks lulunut, I appreciate the support. Its just so frustrating when everything I thought was true is like no longer true....For example, she was a much better morning napper, now those naps seem to be shortening, making the afternoon nap necessary when its what I was trying to phase out. Sometimes I feel like we're moving backward instead of making progress. I know everyone says this transition is rough and can take a long time...I guess we have to just ride it out.
I appreciate everyone's help. I'll definitely be back here :)
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I am having some success with taking him out for a short (AP) nap in the morning either in his pushchair or car, I'm talking mega short, only 5-15 mins. Then he goes down for an afternoon nap in his cot without complaint. It's not pushed back the EW much yet (5am today but a week ago 4:30am wasn't uncommon) but my next tactic is I'm going to get thicker curtains for our hallway as I think light is coming in when we resettle him from his early wakings.
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Can I just ask you all, what kind of routine you have when your LO sleeps for 11hr nights and not 12? My DD was doing 12 hrs when we first went down to one nap and everything fitted in great. But now we are having a bit of a dodgy patch where she is tending to do between 11 and 11.5 hr nights again. Now I know that isn't bad for her age at all, but I am finding that with an A time of 5 hrs (ish) I am finding it hard to get her day to be 13 hrs. Should I try to push both her A times to 5.5 hrs? She can handle that A time usually. What do you think?
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To Bex09 -
I had no idea their day "should" be 13 hours...do you mean to the minute?? I never worried about that at all, maybe I should. I didn't think a half hour here or there was a big deal (I can't stress the clock too much, I'll make myself nuts). Now I'm wondering if that has anything to do with our rocky 2-1 transition. Interested to read what others respond!
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lol Ambinsi! No your day doesn't have to be a set amount of hours at all hun, sorry I didn't mean to worry you! :) I haven't explained myself very well have I? When DD first went to one nap she was having a 12h (ish) day and a 12h night from 7pm until 7am, which was wonderful. But recently she seems to be wanting an 11 h night, so if I stick to a 12h day (5h A time, 2h nap, 5h A time) then she does an 11h night each day her wu will get earlier and earlier iyswim? So if she wakes at 6am, does 5h A time, nap will be 11.00-1.00, 5h A time will put BT at 6pm. But she then does another 11h night, she wakes at 5am and so on. I have tried pushing her A time to 5.5h today and so far so good, so we have done...
wu - 6.30am
A time -5.5h
12.00- 1.50 (usually 2 hrs though :-\)
A time - 5h 40
BT - 7.30pm (hoping for an 11h or more night so wu of at least 6.30 again)
I was just posting to see if anyone else had a routine that was based on an 11hr night really for ideas. Sorry again if I confussed you.
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I totally get what you are saying....if you explained this in a previous post I didn't see it which would explain my confusion. I just kind of jumped in here to vent about my own drama, lol. How rude, right?? Sorry again, but yes what you're saying makes total sense.
I'm very impressed that your DD can handle that much A time....mine seems to be hovering between 4-5 hours at the most. I've tried to slowly extend it but the more I push it the more OT she seems to get. I've kind of taken a step back, so today was a 2 nap day. Ugh.
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Does she automatically wake at 2hrs Bex or do you wake her if she is still asleep after that long? I would be tempted to let her sleep and see if she still does 11hr nights. So if you want a 5hr A time and 7pm BT let her sleep until 2pm whatever length that would make the nap.
Our routine when Cadan only sleeps 11hrs (instead of his usual 11.5hrs) is roughly
07.00 WU
A= 5hr30 (instead of his usual 5hr15)
12.30-14.45 Nap (usually 2hr15 naturally but I let him sleep until 3pm if he wants)
A = 5hr15 (or whatever is left until 8pm BT)
We also had a 12hr night with 3hr nap and 4.5hr A times when we first moved to 1 nap just after 12mo. Shame they don't stay on that routine a little longer eh?
HTH.
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Lemonthyme-My Lo did EW's FOREVER!!! I remember being frustrated because he couldn't make it to 12pm because he was up at 5am. I felt so stuck on 2 naps. I started to AP him in a bed on the floor in his room. He would most times sleep an extra 1-1.5 hours. Then I started to push his am A time. It didn't happen until about well, just recently about 17-18mts that he has been sleeping later. He does about 5:45am now. I still do the same thing and some days he will sleep until 6:30. He does good A times now so I can push him until 12pm if I keep him busy, but if we go anywhere in the care after 10am he falls asleep and i am stuck with a CN before dinner. So I try really hard not to do that!
Bex-we do 10-11hr night here. This works well for us.
approx 6am wake
12pm nap 1.5-2 hours( I found that longer than 2hrs leads to EW for him the next day)
7:30BT
Ambinsi-hugs for you! Stay strong, you may still have a bit of 1 or 2 nap days ahead of you. I also found that it depended on our schedule for the day and what time he woke up. I just went with it. It all worked out in the end. It wasn't until about 16-17mts that I just went with the push and waited out the few days of OT. We still have the odd 2 nap day now.
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Thank you. I've tried so much and he was awake at 4:40am today. Maybe it's just that he's in a transition period and needs to get through it.
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Hi everyone! I posted a thread, earlier today in the nap section and it was moved here. :) It was about the 2-1 transition and EWs. Just saw this thread, so I thought I'd pop in here!
My ds will be 1 tomorrow! :) I am trying to, slowly, move him towards a one nap day b/c his EW's are getting to be too much. He's a great night sleeper, a great day sleeper (3 hours most days), but his nights are getting shorter and shorter.
A typical day for him looks something like this...
5:00/5:15am WU
8:45-9:45 (sometimes 1.5 hours) nap
1:00/1:15-2:45 nap
7:00 BT and asleep
I know that he needs to sleep less during the day, so that he can (hopefully) sleep more during the night. We're averaging 10 hours at night now. He use to do 11, with the same naps. I think he'll do better with a short AM/long PM. Problem is he likes a short A in the morning. He's usually tired after about 3 hours. That only puts us at 8am. I hold him off till 8:45/9 most days and I've been waking him after an hour. Today I woke him after 45. He's down for the PM nap and I'll have to wake him after 1.5 b/c I need to leave for somewhere.
Anyways, 'HI!" LOL! I'm here, in the same boat, as the rest of you. :) Hoping to get advice and support on moving to one nap and getting rid of these awful EWs!
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Hello,
Thought I would join in here because DS (13mo) has been refusing his pm nap for a few weeks. He went back to 2 naps after a few late nights when we were away for a wedding, but is back to screaming in the afternoon this week. I am trying to shorten his am nap starting today. Hopefully I can get in another nap this afternoon!
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Ali - sorry I haven't replied to your question sooner. DD will sometimes sleep 2.5h for her nap but usually wakes at the 2h mark. Recently I have started waking her after 2hs though because if she sleeps longer then we seem to get shorter nights. I have actually pushed her A time to bed out a bit to make for a later BT and it has worked a treat, fingers crossed. :-X She seems to prefer a later BT or more A to bed (not sure which) but she is doing about 12h at night again... for a week now... yay. She actually did from 7.30pm until I woke her at 8.30am the other day and she still didn't want to get up!
lulunut - thanks for the routine. The later BT has really helped us so far. Hope it stays that way.
Ambinsi - DD has always had higher than average A times, even as a newborn, so don't worry. Doesn't always work well though... today we went to the zoo all day and she didn't sleep from wu of 8am until we came home in the car at 4.30pm! :o She had 20 mins sleep all day. Who knows what tonight will bring.
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Ladies, may I join? I figure since your los are a little older, you have more experience. Alyssa will be one on August 16th. I have hit a little bump during this 2-1. She is on the higher side of A times and we started the transition by doing long am/short pm nap. We struggled with Ews for a while and then nights went to 10.5hours. when we moved to one nap she was doing 12 hour nights. This was just this week. Now for the last two mornings she is waking early again and nights are back down to 10hrs. I assume she is a little OT b/c of the one nap. I don't know.
Do you see anything that I don't!
Sun
wake up at 6:45am
nap 12:10-2:25pm
bed and asleep by 7:10pm
Mon
wake up at 7am
nap 12:30-2:30pm
bed and asleep by 7pm
nw at 3am( I suspect teething)
Tues
wake up at 7am
nap 12-1:35pm (couldn't extend)
bed and asleep by 7pm
I tried to fit in a CN as were out but she wouldn't go to sleep, so hubby said why not keep her up. I probably should of put her down at 6:30pm
nw 8:20pm (OT)
Wed
wake up at 6am, was able to pat her back to sleep until 6:45am. (she was in and out of sleep)
tried for an 11am nap but started playing so I took her out and put her down at 12pm. woke up at 1pm screaming, arching her back and rolling around. I suspect pain here. Got her back down until 2pm.
bed 7pm
then the ew began. I did two naps yesterday but again another ew this morning-it was 5:20am. Yikes. I tried for one hr to put her down but nothing.
hoping to get some new eyes, support and ideas.
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Welcome Sabrina. I suspect on Tuesday she short napped because she went down too early. I understand why you did that after a NW though. Maybe it was just too early for her if her body clock has been used to going down at 12.30 lately. Then as you already realised she probably needed to have an early night to avoid the OT which is probably what caused her to NW and EW.
What do you think was causing the pain that caused her to wake from her nap on Wednesday? Teeth? Reflux? Can you medicate for it before the nap if teeth? You might have to accept her routine will be a little off until the teeth come through if she is indeed teething.
Since keeping her A time short doesn't seem to be working for her what about doing set naps at 12.30 for a few days and seeing if that helps her get back into the routine that seemed to be working for before?
Once we moved to one nap at 12.5mo I found it impossible to get any 2 nap days out of my DS unless he was woken early by something (or me) and both naps were short, UT in the car (which we hardly ever use). And he isn't hight sleep needs we did 4.5hr A times before and after a 3hr nap. Even now at 19mo our ideal days are 5hr15 A time followed by a 2hr15 nap and a 5hr A time.
What do you think?
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that makes sense. I think you may be onto something. It is now 11am and she seems to be in a pleasant mood. I was going to put her down at 12pm for a one nap day. I am now finding that two nap days gives me shorter nights. The thing that got me upset was that on Thursday we had a perfect easy. She woke up at 7am, napped from 12:30-2:40pm and was in bed and asleep by 8pm. She woke up at 6am. I couldn't figure out why she did such a short night. Could it be that a 2hr nap is her limit on one nap days. She is so different from DD1. DD1 transitioned so easily and is a high sleep need girl.
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Her BT on Thursday seems late compared to what she was doing on the other days you posted. Maybe it was too late and she was restless from OT when she woke at 6am the next morning...?
Maybe try the set nap time for a week or so and if that isn't working try capping the nap. I am always hesitant to cap naps since DS is generally unhappy if I wake him.
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You know, it didn't even cross my mind that her bt was late b/c I thought since she napped great, she could easily handle 5hours of A time. I guess I should try 4.5hours of A time after a good nap. I try not to cap naps. she hardly sleeps longer then 2hours.
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Oh ladies....help!!! For a long time the morning nap was the better nap and I was opting to either AP a second nap or just do an early bedtime. Now it seems that her "morning nap" has shortened to under an hour regardless of what time I put her down/A time. I don't have the energy at 8 1/2 months pregnant to AP the second nap anymore. By that time of day my only option is to put her in the car and that's no longer the magic trick it once was. It can now take her up to half an hour in the car to fall asleep and even then she'll only sleep half an hour.
Advice PLEASE - or just lie to me and tell me it magically gets better.
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It does and will get better, I promise! :-*
Do you suspect the one hour nap UT? Can you push her nap out and see what that gives you?
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I don't know, Sabs....today she had over 5 hours of A time, the most I've probably ever tried. Some days are great, nice long naps but those seem to be the exception, not the rule, and I don't even know what I'm doing differently on those days. I feel so frustrated and defeated.
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I can't pretend I have things sorted but we're doing a 2 to 1 nap transition at the moment. We have EWs though too which is rubbish. Martina suggested I AP the morning nap, just a really short one, say 10 mins then do the second nap at home. So what I do is take him out in the buggy to the park or take him in the car in the morning and he'll often sleep on the way, I then immediately wake him up when we get there and then he goes down for a longer nap after lunch; once he managed 2 hours 15 mins and he used to be a 45 minute maximum boy!
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Ambinsi, did she have a long night?
what should i do now. She napped from 12-2:30pm-one settling required. What time should bt be? I know she needed to catch up from such a short night but I don't want to be stuck in that short night long nap cycle. I was thinking 7pm.
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Sabs, I would go with 7pm since she seems to have done well with that BT based on the Easys you posted and it's the 4.5hrs A time you said you would try. I usually do a similar A time whether my DS does a 1hr15 or a 3hr nap.
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thanks. She was asleep by 7pm tonight. Keeping my fingers crossed.
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so we got a 6:20am wu. Now I just need to work on shifting her day. I guess I have to accept this wu time until she can handle more A time.
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Yeah, 11hr20 is a good night. Maybe aim to move BT back by 5-10mins every few days and see if that gets you a progressively later WU.
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Sabs - She went down at about 7 last night, was slightly dramatic (a little crying, sitting up, on and off for like 20 minutes which usually doesn't happen if our bedtime is timed right) but did go to sleep. She had a cry-out at about 8:30 which lasted 10 seconds. Then she got up at around midnight and we did go get her and attempt to feed her as she'd refused her bedtime bottle. After all that she wound up getting up at 6:40am.
One thing we've never really had are the EWs.....just super crappy naps and the occasional dramatic bedtime if OT. Today DH put her down at 10:30, under 4 hours of A time because she seemed so tired. I predict a short nap and it will have to be a 2 nap day.
What do you suggest I do in terms of A time....its like nothing seems to make a difference and she's "short napping" regardless of what I do!
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Can you post your EASY and how old is she now?
Thanks for the tips Ali. Aiming for a 12pm nap today.
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Hi all - can I join?
DS will be 1 in a few weeks time & is a chronic EW'er. We are having nap troubles ATM & I can't quite figure how far we are along the 2-1 yet. Some days I think we are very near to 1 nap, other days I'm not so sure. I am currently posting on the other 2-1 thread - so I will be just following along for now & hopefully picking up some tips!
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Claire, post away here. :-*
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here is how our day went:
wake 6:20am out at 6:40am
nap 12-2:25pm (no nap extension required)
bed 7pm fussed a little asleep by 7:15pm I think she was a little UT before bed b/c she normally goes down like a breeze.
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I'm going to post our EASY and you can tell what you think. She's 15 months old as of the 29th.
She usually wakes up around 6:30-7 so I'm going to use 7 as a baseline:
7am - wake up and bottle
8:30/9 - breakfast
11:30 or 12 (depending on how she seems) - nap
1 or 2 - lunch
5 or 6 - dinner
7ish - attempt bottle and bedtime
these are all estimates and times of course vary but this is the general routine. She also has a few little snacks and drinks water throughout the day.
There are definitely some issues here....and I'm wondering if our entire routine needs an overhaul. I'm wondering if she's waking up early from these naps because she's hungry? I usually give her a little snack upon wakeup and then lunch a bit later on. There's also the refusal of the bedtime bottle and I don't know what to do about that. She's still on formula which is a whole other post....but its my understanding that most kids have milk before bed and she just refuses it 9 times out of 10. That's why she's still getting a bottle first thing in the morning - she's hungry when she wakes up and its the only bottle she'll take all day.
Do you think I should try to give her lunch BEFORE her nap?? Maybe that way she'll be full, sleep better, and lunch and dinner won't follow each other so closely.
I also want to add that she IS teething - three molars just came in back to back to back and a forth is cutting, as well as another tooth on the bottom.
WDYT??
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Poor thing! I would move lunch before nap or you can do a split lunch-before and after her nap. Will she take any milk before her nap? I find that helps!
So is she only sleeping one hour in the day? I was thinking can you move her nap a little later and see if that gives you a longer nap?
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Agree with Sabs - I would do lunch before nap too. Maybe 11 or 11.30. I'm thinking maybe b/c she has lunch 1-2pm & then tea 5-6pm she may just be too full to take her BT bottle. What do you think?
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I think it makes sense....we will try today. I have tried moving the nap later with no real success but never tried early lunch.
Today she was awake at 6 although she didn't start fussing until 640 so that's when I got her. We did the bottle immediately and I am thinking breakfast at 830. What time do you suggest lunch and nap?
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I would do a spit lunch at 11am. Do you think she would go down at 11:45am/12pm?
This is what I do normally. We are still on three bottles.
wake 6:30am
7am bottle
8:30am breakfast
11am lunch
12pm before nap bottle
2:30-3pm snack
5pm dinner
bottle 7pm
we got a 6:30am wu with a 7:15pm bt. I guess she was ready for that one nap. Keeping my fingers crossed.
Going to be working on shifting bt a little later so I can get a 7am wu.
Aiming for a 12pm lunch.
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Oh Sabs....I am seeing your response 30 mins too late! Sigh. I attempted an earlier breakfast which I don't think she was ready for since she didn't eat all that much. I then gave her a yogurt a couple of hours later and attempted a snack. She ate most of the yogurt but refused the snack. I made a bottle but got totally distracted and wound up putting her down without trying it (pregnancy brain). I will definitely try the bottle tomorrow though. My hopes are high but I know the reality of dealing with her and she eats what she wants when she wants. If she doesn't want food/bottle she will push it away. She's not one to eat just because she was offered food but oh boy, I wish she was!
I attempted a nap at 11:10. She was just a mess by then....I was afraid to push any longer and she might get OT. I guess I will see what happens.
Sounds like you had a great night!
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No worries. It is all trial and error. :-* Just a question, before nap time, have you tried changing her scene or do a low key A in her room. this can give you an extra 10min. Alyssa does the same thing with the bottle. Normally, I would give her the bottle after her nap but I find that when I give it to her before her nap, she goes down more easily. Also, she doesn't drink that much-about 4ozs now, so I know she will be dropping it soon.
Keeping my fingers crossed for you! Hopefully, she will give you a long nap.
here is an update: I put Alyssa down at 12pm, don't know if she was a little UT but went down easily. Woke up 1,5hours later blowing raspberries. I had to rock her back to sleep.
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Ok, so I'm pretty new and am in need of advice on the 2-1 transition. We started one nap last week with my 14 month old and he did great with it! However we've had a bit of EW in the mornings, but naps have been wonderful. The EW has gotten a bit out of control though. He woke up yesterady at 5:15 when our wake time is supposed to be 7. When this happens I give him a short nap around 10ish and then a later nap at 3. The issue with this is that he's then not tired at BT. Last night it took him an hour to go to sleep.
I really hate the inconsistancy of going from one nap to two, but I'm not sure if it's such a good idea to keep him awake from 5:30ish to 12:30 (naptime). Has anyone tried it? Do you think I should just try to keep him awake and just try to make sure he's busy? What do you suggest?
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Hi all
We are getting pretty big PM nap refusal here. I'm not sure what to do about it. Any thoughts ???
Yesterday:
Wake: 6.30
Nap: 10.10 - 11.40
CN: 3.45 - 4.15
BT: 7.00
Today:
Wake: 6.30
Nap: 10.45 - 12.00
CN: 4.35 - ???
BT: 7.00
His A time this AM was way longer than the last 2 days, yet he slept a shorter nap. What do you make of that??? And he's then gone on to do a 4.5hr A time, again waaay longer than he did yesterday on a longer nap. He was at IL's today & he never sleeps as well there as at home but this is typical of what we are getting ATM. I'm going to wake him from his CN in a few mins, so his total day sleep today is going to be 1h 35. I feel this is way too little & that its making him sleep long nights through utter exhaustion. He's always been an EWer until the last few days when we switched to long am/short pm.
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Personally MamaJ I would first of all try to offer one nap after a similar A time to what he normally has. So if he normally WU at 7am and naps at 12.30 I would have offered the nap around 11am and let him sleep as long as he wanted to see if you could stick with 1 nap. Then you could do BT earlier if he didn't nap longer. And he might still sleep through the night until a later WU. It does depend on whether your LO is the type to tack lost day sleep onto the nights though. If you do go for 2 naps though I would have tried for a short nap earlier than 10am so you wouldn't have to let him have a long one as late as 3pm.
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So we got another 6:30am wu this morning with a 7:15pm bt. It looks like this girl likes to do the one nap thing cold turkey. I find that doing two naps, messes her up. YKWIM? Anyhow, I put her down at 12pm for her nap today and she chatted for 10min. This is unlike her. Do you think a little UT? I am preparing myself that I may have to extend this nap.
Claire, great wu times.I knew he would do better with the long am nap. The only way I could get Alyssa to take a pm cn was with the buggy. I would cover her up so it was nice and dark and walk. Do you think you AP this nap.
The only other thing I can suggest is, do you think he would be able to handle a one nap day? But, you would have to push that am nap out so he is doing at least an A of 5hours.
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update: she woke up 1hr and 15mins into her nap. I had to pat her to sleep. Do you suspect that she is tired but not tired enough to enter the next sleep cycle?
I feel like I am constantly walking on pins and needles when it comes to her nap.
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I feel like I am constantly walking on pins and needles when it comes to her nap.
I know exactly what you mean!
The only way I could get Alyssa to take a pm cn was with the buggy. I would cover her up so it was nice and dark and walk. Do you think you AP this nap.
Tried buggy 2 days ago & he was rubbing his eyes & crying but refused to sleep. As soon as we got in the car to go home he was out within 2mins. So I AP'd the nap in the car again yesterday - just kept driving til he woke, but he only had 30mins (1.5hr AM nap). Today he was at IL's, they said he looked like he was getting tired so they brought him home so he could nap in his cot. He didn't sleep in the car & I PD as soon as he got home - took aaages to settle. It just seems a struggle every day, like there comes a point in the day where he thinks 'nope - I'm not going to go down'.
The only other thing I can suggest is, do you think he would be able to handle a one nap day? But, you would have to push that am nap out so he is doing at least an A of 5hours.
Now, this is where I'm not sure. I read on the 2-1 sticky you can get PM nap refusal waay before they are ready for 1 nap, so how do you know if its the right time to try?
As I said before the last 2 days he did 3h 40 A time. Day 1 I woke him after 1h 45 to make sure we got PM nap, yesterday he woke himself after 1.5hrs. Today he did 4h 15 A & only slept 1h 15. His A times just don't make sense to me?!!
As for Alyssa - I wouldn't worry too much about a little chatter before sleep - Oliver does this all the time. IDK if 1h 15 is UT when they are on 1 nap or not?!
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I capped Alyssa's am nap to 1.5hours. She did the odd 1hr and 45min nap. If I didn't cap then she would refuse her pm nap. I think his body is starting to regulate with the long am nap. He needs to adjust and some days that nap will be shorter then other days. YKWIM? Now you just have to figure out the right A time that will give you a nice long nap. I personally think with a two hour am nap, he will refuse that pm nap.
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Just wanted to fill you in on how yesterday wound up going....
After putting her down for that nap at 11:10 she took a 2h15m nap. This is the longest nap in history that I've ever gotten out of her. I don't know how and why this happened but I was ready to check if she was breathing!!!!!!!!! That was her one nap of the day and DH attempted dinner at around 5/5:30 and she wasn't too interested in food. She took a bottle before bed but wound up getting up at 5am (after I just said we don't have EWs....I should have kept my fat mouth shut!). At 5am I gave her a bottle and she went back down until almost 7:30. So does that really count as a EW?
Today we had a day out and it wasn't as smooth as I would like. I anticipate a rough night ahead.....how do you ladies handle naps when you're out for the day?? I usually revolve my day around her naps but what do you do when that's just not possible? I am SO NERVOUS for #2 to arrive in the midst of all this drama. AHHHH.
Clairebear - I share your confusion with A times....its a mystery to me. Its like every day is different.
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Mama3 - I wouldn't keep the A time the same. I'm a real convert to the morning catnap if there's been an EW. So my LO has a 5 minute (literally no longer than 10 min) catnap in the morning either in the car or pushchair if he's woken early, then normally has a longer nap after lunch. If nothing else it makes his days more predictable and I'm hoping longer term we'll get rid of the EW problem. Interestingly yesterday at nursery where they're fond of putting him down for longer morning naps, he rolled off his bed and wondered off to play when they tried to put him down for a longer nap so I think he's getting the message now that naptime is after lunch.
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Ladies he woke at 4.40am, back to sleep until 5.40am. I fell asleep & I think he *might* have dozed off for 10mins, but he was definitely awake again by 6am. So somewhere between 10h 40-50 night sleep. Prob due to OT from how little day sleep he got yesterday.
I've watched him really carefully today & he's gone down for his nap at 10am. So somewhere between 4h & 4h 10 A time. Still no eye rubbing, fussing or yawning, but he laid his head on me & looked very tired around the eyes. Plus he went all kind of hyper, so I'm a little worried he might be OT. He just cried out at the 1hr mark - I'm hoping he'll resettle for a while longer.
Sabs - do you think I'd be best off capping that nap at 1.5hrs or is it ok to let him go 1h 45??? I agree, if I do 2hrs he will definitely refuse CN. But if I do 1.5 & then get his A time wrong & he fights CN then he could end up having not enough sleep again. Its so hard doing it this way round - short AM is sooo MUCH easier - no nap fighting at all.
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I would always let them sleep as long as they want for the long nap since this is the one you Will end up keeping. He he then refuses the cn i would do an early bt. I was always sacred this would mean ew but it can't get much earlier than 4.45! I also suggest doing pd at the early waking even if it takes a while as it did help the ew here. If you can just get one non-ew it is easier to do 1 nap. I once put k down for bed at 5.45 and he slept until 6.30am so at least he then managed a decent a time on a long night.
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Khalam's Mama - is that ok even if they are taking the long nap as early as 10am??? I have no idea what A time to follow it up with, so he doesn't end up OT at BT - say if he did a 2hr nap from 10-12 & refused a CN, when should we be doing BT???
Also we have already endured 6 months of EW, some as early as 3.30am & often between 4-5am (seriously!) and we are just starting to make some headway with that & are regularly waking up between 5.30-6.30am now. I really can't face much more of it! Sigh!
I woke him after 1.5hrs this AM & he's gone down for his CN at 3.40pm. I'm going to let him sleep until 4.15 & I'm hoping that a 7pm BT will be OK after that.
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After putting her down for that nap at 11:10 she took a 2h15m nap. This is the longest nap in history that I've ever gotten out of her. I don't know how and why this happened but I was ready to check if she was breathing!!!!!!!!! That was her one nap of the day and DH attempted dinner at around 5/5:30 and she wasn't too interested in food. She took a bottle before bed but wound up getting up at 5am (after I just said we don't have EWs....I should have kept my fat mouth shut!). At 5am I gave her a bottle and she went back down until almost 7:30. So does that really count as a EW?
No I would call that a NW probably from hunger due to skipping dinner. I only call it EW if they are up for any length of time or start the day at that time. If it is just a feed and back to sleep then to me it's NW. I treat anything before 6am as a NW and would keep going until DS wnet back to sleep which luckily wasn't a regular thing for us. Maybe try an earlier BT if she wakes from her nap early in the day again. I would have done a 6.30pm BT if the nap finished at 1.30ish. I always go by A times and it works for us but I know some babies are more touchy to the time of day they are used to be sleeping so I guess you need to experiment with what works for your LO.
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Claire, I would cap that nap if you don't want a really early bt. If you cap it he will be tired enough for his CN. I never capped DD1's nap b/c she was a way better sleeper then DD2. She loved and still loves her naps. I eventually cut her pm nap from 30min to 20min and then jumped to one nap. As I said, her cn was AP every day. If he sleeps 10-12pm then bt around 5pm, so in my opinion you would have to fit in that cn. Your other option is to move that nap out and then let him sleep as long as he likes with an early bt.
agree with Ali. That nw would be hunger here too.
so ladies, she was asleep by 7:05pm and woke up at 6:50am. I guess it was due to that short nap. I put her down at 12:15pm and she didn't fall asleep until 12:35pm. What is up with this girl? she must really like her long morning A. I don't know! Do you ladies suspect UT here. I figure if she sleeps for 1.5hours, aim for a 7pm bt.
any ideas ladies?
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Joining in here. S is 12. 5mo. We have been doing the 2-1 it seems for months now. I keep deciding to commit to the 1 nap but then go back to 2 as he gets OT. We were doing okay for a few days on 1, but he started having more NWs and waking early from the nap. But, his nights were generally longer - 11-11.5hrs.
Our routine was looking like this:
WU 5:30
S 11-12:30 (if lucky)
BT 6:00
A few days ago he was so tired in the morning I gave him a 30 minute catnap (9-9:30) and discovered his preference for a 3 hr A time after that. He then slept from 12:30-2. Was aiming for a 6:30 BT but he wouldn't fall asleep till 7. He didn't have any early NWs (slept 5.5hr) till the first. Sounds good (and I was thinking I would finally be able to shift his day) but he woke at 5 for the day. Only 10 hrs. The next night he was ok in the first part then up every 1/2hour after midnight. Last night up crying after 45 minutes then every 1.5 hrs after 1:40 and up for the day at 4:22 (after being up at 3:55). Less than a 9.5 hr night! Not sure if BT was too late (as he's used to 6pm), but he seemed more UT than OT.
Why are his mornings getting earlier on 2 naps? I was thinking maybe he just shouldn't be getting 2 any more and I should ride out the OT on 1 nap? But then today he did 1/2 hr from 9:15-9:45 then from 1-3 (I woke him). A nice 2 hours, likely catching up from the short night. Will aim for 7pm again but am scared about what tomorrow morning will bring.
Can anyone shed some light on this??
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Khalam's Mama - is that ok even if they are taking the long nap as early as 10am??? I have no idea what A time to follow it up with, so he doesn't end up OT at BT - say if he did a 2hr nap from 10-12 & refused a CN, when should we be doing BT???
I would have put him to bed at 5pm. Even if he got up at 5am at least he would have had 12hrs sleep so technically not an EW (since this is when they have less than 10.5hrs sleep) just not the timing you want. However in my experience K would sleep longer with an earlier BT than he would with a late one so he might sleep longer. If you get enough sleep even if it is 5-5 it is easier to move it back to 7-7 (in small increments) than to deal with OT. I would try to push the nap out until as late as he will tolerate though.
We had EW for about 4 months at 9-13mo and these didn't go away until we just went to one nap.
After putting her down for that nap at 11:10 she took a 2h15m nap. This is the longest nap in history that I've ever gotten out of her. I don't know how and why this happened but I was ready to check if she was breathing!!!!!!!!! That was her one nap of the day and DH attempted dinner at around 5/5:30 and she wasn't too interested in food. She took a bottle before bed but wound up getting up at 5am (after I just said we don't have EWs....I should have kept my fat mouth shut!). At 5am I gave her a bottle and she went back down until almost 7:30. So does that really count as a EW?
No I would call that a NW probably from hunger due to skipping dinner. I only call it EW if they are up for any length of time or start the day at that time. If it is just a feed and back to sleep then to me it's NW. I treat anything before 6am as a NW and would keep going until DS wnet back to sleep which luckily wasn't a regular thing for us. Maybe try an earlier BT if she wakes from her nap early in the day again. I would have done a 6.30pm BT if the nap finished at 1.30ish. I always go by A times and it works for us but I know some babies are more touchy to the time of day they are used to be sleeping so I guess you need to experiment with what works for your LO.
I agree I would treat this as a NW. She went back to sleep so at least you didn't start your day then.so ladies, she was asleep by 7:05pm and woke up at 6:50am. I guess it was due to that short nap. I put her down at 12:15pm and she didn't fall asleep until 12:35pm. What is up with this girl? she must really like her long morning A. I don't know! Do you ladies suspect UT here. I figure if she sleeps for 1.5hours, aim for a 7pm bt.
any ideas ladies?
I think that sounds good.
Joining in here. S is 12. 5mo. We have been doing the 2-1 it seems for months now. I keep deciding to commit to the 1 nap but then go back to 2 as he gets OT. We were doing okay for a few days on 1, but he started having more NWs and waking early from the nap. But, his nights were generally longer - 11-11.5hrs.
Our routine was looking like this:
WU 5:30
S 11-12:30 (if lucky)
BT 6:00
A few days ago he was so tired in the morning I gave him a 30 minute catnap (9-9:30) and discovered his preference for a 3 hr A time after that. He then slept from 12:30-2. Was aiming for a 6:30 BT but he wouldn't fall asleep till 7. He didn't have any early NWs (slept 5.5hr) till the first. Sounds good (and I was thinking I would finally be able to shift his day) but he woke at 5 for the day. Only 10 hrs. The next night he was ok in the first part then up every 1/2hour after midnight. Last night up crying after 45 minutes then every 1.5 hrs after 1:40 and up for the day at 4:22 (after being up at 3:55). Less than a 9.5 hr night! Not sure if BT was too late (as he's used to 6pm), but he seemed more UT than OT.
Why are his mornings getting earlier on 2 naps? I was thinking maybe he just shouldn't be getting 2 any more and I should ride out the OT on 1 nap? But then today he did 1/2 hr from 9:15-9:45 then from 1-3 (I woke him). A nice 2 hours, likely catching up from the short night. Will aim for 7pm again but am scared about what tomorrow morning will bring.
Can anyone shed some light on this??
Are you sure there isn't anything else going on like teething/illness?
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Becky - cute pic of S!!! So you finally got the fab pm naps with the short AM nap then?!!! IMHO I think the AM nap may still be a little early. Have you tried AM nap starting no earlier than 9.30 - or how about cutting it even slightly shorter still to 15-20mins?
We found we were STILL getting EW with the 20min AM nap from 10-10.20 & 2hr nap from 12.30-2.30, BT at 7pm. So we've gone back to long AM short PM & except for today, our WU has improved quite a bit. We are down from 2h 20 total day sleep to just 2hrs now though. So maybe with the 30min AM nap its just too much day sleep?
It does make me wonder if all your NW's might be discomfort related though - is he still gassy/refluxy or teething ??? Or do you think still related to the boob ??? When O is OT we often get a few WU's in the early part of the night & of course the EW's, but NEVER get WU's like that, so I'm not sure its entirely down to that.
Ladies - I stuck with the 35min CN & 7pm BT. We'll see if we get another 5.30am WU tomorrow. I'm hoping not but have a sneaking suspicion we might. We've had a lot of stirrings/cries out this evening so I think he's actually getting rather OT. Yesterday he only slept a total of 12 hrs (naps + night sleep :()
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Well, I am thinking her chatting could really mean she is OT. I put her down for bed at 7pm and she chatted/rolled around for 30min. She never does this before bed.
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Claire, my fear is that the fab pm nap today was because of his super EW this morning and that by simply giving 2 naps his nights are going to be really short. I will push that nap out tomorrow and see what happens. Hopefully it won't be another 4 am wu. I do think there is some discomfort going on. His belly is often hard and round (gassy maybe?) and I am having trouble burping after I feed him sometimes as he seems too uncomfortable (yep still have to burp this guy). He's also doing more spitting lately. Could be teeth, but I've been saying that for weeks. His gums are bumpy but these teeth just seem to take forever to come in.
Sabrina - we get some happy playful behaviour when OT. Makes it tricky to know when he is. I think he's slightly less active when well rested.
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Thanks everyone....I guess now I understand the difference between an EW and NW for a feed. Yesterday we had a crazy day out and she was totally off. Today I attempted to get back on track and she only took one nap but it was only 1h20m. That's still not terrible for her, I've had worse!! She woke up too late to try a 2nd nap (and I've given up on that anyway) so we did a bedtime that was like 30-45mins earlier than usual. We'll see how the night goes.
I'm still struggling with A times and "fitting it all in" to the day, especially if she ends up going to bed early. I feel like something always suffers; she won't take a bottle, she isn't hungry enough for a meal, etc. Oh well, gotta keep trying till we get it right, I guess. I appreciate all your help SO MUCH!!! It makes me wish I had some advice or words of wisdom for all of you going through the same thing. I'm sorry I don't, but I'm reading up to see if I can chime in and help!!!
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Becky - I totally agree yesterday would be due to the super EW - it looks like you've had a few decent PM naps though ??? ISWYM though about worrying that the 2 naps are making things worse. I think you perhaps need to aim for 1 nap but maybe do 2naps every few days to keep OT at bay - isn't that what a lot of others do?
Ladies we got a 5.55am WU here. 10h 55 sleep. Hoping we've caught up a little on the day before & can get that morning A extended again.
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Hi all! We're still getting EW's. :( It's been a week of cutting the AM nap to 45. Should I start backing it up to 30? His schedule is like this:
5:15am WU
9:15-10 nap
around 1-2:30 nap
6:45/7 BT
I don't know if he's still getting too much daytime sleep. He doesn't nap more than 1.5 in the PM and with doing 45 in the AM, it's only 2.15. If I don't wake him in the AM he'll go 1-1.5 hours most days. Is his BT too late? Is his PM nap too late after that 45 minute AM? He use to sleep 11+ hours at night. Now, we're down to 10 on a good night. I really don't know what's going on or where to go at this point.
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Cyndie, I would try 30mins for one week.
As suspected we got an earlier wu this morning. I heard her stir at 6am then woke up at 6:15am. Why can't this girl just show me tired signs. She will honestly play until she passes out. LOL Anyhow, pushed her to 12pm.
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stumped again! Asleep by 12pm then woke up at 1:35pm b/c her sister was flipping out. Hubby is trying to settle her now. If not, what time should I do bt? Should I try a 10min cn later?
Grrr...is there supposed to be a regression during this phase?
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Wow Sabs she can really do some serious A times!
Cyndie - I don't think his BT is too late, nor is the PM nap too late after a 45min nap. IMHO I think you need to get your AM nap to start a little later. If you are going to try 30min AM nap I would aim to have it start no earlier than 9.30am. I honestly think this is what has helped our EW - its not so much the length of the nap but how early it starts. Touch wood it continues (I may have jinxed it now) but we've had 4 6am or later starts in the last week, and we are doing his nap around 10am. If you do cut the AM nap shorter you will probably have to do the PM nap a little earlier, maybe 12.30-45, but it should also hopefully extend a wee bit.
Ladies - I took a gamble today & let him sleep as long as he wanted for his AM nap. And luckily we got a teensy CN in too.
Wake: 5.55
Nap: 10.17 - 12.32 A = 4h 22 S = 2h 15 (he cried out at 1h 10 ??? but resettled)
CN: 4.37 - 4.50 A = 4h 5 S = 13mins (fell asleep in car on way home from seaside)
BT: 7.10 A = 2h 20
I'm hoping that allowing him the longer sleep will have helped him to catch up on any OT that had accumulated & then we can start afresh tomorrow. FX'd the extra day sleep or the CN too late in the day doesn't come back to bite us tomorrow. What do you think?
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We had a 5:20 wu this morning and that was after NWs at 1, 3, 4, 4:30 and I had to hold him from 4:30-5:20 (started babbling and waking up to play). Was aiming for a catnap close to 10 but after a poop he had a second wind and wasn't tired ::). Got him down for 11:30. woke at 12:40 and got him back to sleep till about 1:15 (in my arms again :P). Anyway, will aim for 6-6:30 and hope for a longer night tonight. I am getting pretty tired from these EWs!
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Claire, or anyone else, do you think I should push it out (later) and cut it short, at the same time? So, let's say...
5:15 WU
9:30-10 nap
12:30/12:45- whenever
Or do I push it out to 9:30 but let him do 45 for a bit?
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Sabs, if you can do a 10min CN then I would. As long as it won't push her BT too late. Otherwise I'd have her in bed and asleep by 6.30 at the latest. I don't think you can read too much into today's nap if you think she was disturbed by her sister. That is not indicative of how tired she was YK?
Claire I guess all LOs are different but I found a 10-15min sleep would make NO difference to BT or night sleep whatsoever. It would just mean DS didn't get so grumpy before BT. We never planned those type of naps the just happened in the car or buggy etc. by accident. It wouldn't change my plan for BT at all.
Cyndie, personally I would cut it to 30mins first and then push it out once he is used to the new length. Otherwise if you push it out and still allow the same 45mins he might want the PM nap even later than he does now and hence BT will also be later. I think you risk OT if you push it out and cut it all at once.
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thanks Ali. Well, I wanted to listen to my gut but hubby said do an early bt. Planning to do that. will keep you posted.
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Hi
So glad there's a support thread for this!
My lo is just over 11 mo. We're struggling with LONG NW's (up to 3 hours) she just wont settle no matter what we do. I thought it might be because she's UT, we've had a lovely bout of teething and she lost a lot of sleep so I was trying to catch her up in the day. However she up for about 1 1/2 hours last night and in the day she had 1hr 40 in the morning and 40mins in the afternoon with a 4 1/2 hr A time before bed which I know is a bit too long but she was exhausted by 1 o'clock and very grumpy. Her day was pushed forward by a 5am wake up!
I'm trying to do a short am nap and long pm nap but she's so tired when I put her down for her am (after either a long NW or an EW or nursery the day before where she never sleeps that well) that I feel she needs a long am nap. I've woken her up before and she cried quite a lot and was grumpy. Should I keep trying with the short am nap as this is what I'd like to do as its easier? We've had nap refusal in the afternoon before.
No idea where to start, its a big mess, oh and because teething was so bad we've been rocking her to sleep so that's another issue that will need sorting!
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Claire I guess all LOs are different but I found a 10-15min sleep would make NO difference to BT or night sleep whatsoever. It would just mean DS didn't get so grumpy before BT. We never planned those type of naps the just happened in the car or buggy etc. by accident. It wouldn't change my plan for BT at all.
Thanks Ali - that's kind of a relief to hear!
Ladies, we got a 6.20AM WU this morning - 11h 15 night sleep. Pretty good, esp after I let him sleep at his AM nap, I guess he had some catching up to do! We are aiming for a similar day today.
Bellymonster - welcome! Maybe if you post your current EASY we can all take a look?
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Thanks for the advice, Ali! I will definitely shorten the nap first. Thinking today's a good day! ;)
Claire, nice night!! Good job Oliver! :)
This morning I heard J at just before 5am. Ugh! I let him be for awhile and he fussed a bit. I turned down the monitor b/c I was so tired. And, next thing I knew, I didn't hear him again until 6:45! I'm sure he went back to sleep b/c no way he would have played quietly in there for almost 1.75 hours. So, I'm not entirely sure when he woke back up, but I'll take the 6:45! Oh, and yesterday, I let him sleep in the PM and he did 2 hours! Hasn't done that in a long time. Maybe just catching up or something since he did 45 in the AM.
I'm going to see how the morning goes, but I'm aiming for a 9:30-10 nap. Then PM nap around 12:30. We'll have to see how things pan out.
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Cyndie - 6.45!!!! wowee!!!
Ladies I really can't work O out. Yesterday his 1st A time of 4h 20 produced a 2h 15 nap, then 4hrs later he did a 13min CN. Today, same AM A time produced a 1h 30 nap, and he is currently fighting a CN in cot 4hrs later. Only a few days ago he did a 1.5hr AM nap & took a CN 4hrs later so I thought it'd be about right. Was he catching up on OT yesterday & now UT today ??? He's still got big grey bags under his eyes so I'm sure he must be tired. It seems like every day we get totally different results with the same A times. Or is it just b/c he's in his cot? I can't be driving around for hours every day just trying to get him to take a nap!
If he refuses CN its going to be 1 early BT. Sigh ::)
Ladies if we continue having this much difficulty getting the CN how should we proceed? Isn't it recommended to do short AM/long PM if that's what's happening ???
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Ladies, we got a 6:40am wu with a 7pm bt. I can't believe she didn't have any nws with a 1.5hour nap. I was thinking of aiming for a 12pm nap.
Claire, I find that when Alyssa's nights are longer she can handle a little more A. ??? ??? He won't nap in the stroller?
welcome bellymonster.
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Claire, I find that when Alyssa's nights are longer she can handle a little more A.
I think maybe this is where I went wrong today. I wasn't aiming to stick to the same A time as such, he just happened to start looking tired & got a bit wobbly (though no eye rubbing, fussing or yawning again), so I put him to bed. Maybe he wasn't *quite* tired enough.
He won't nap in the stroller?
Sometimes...its not a dead cert though. He is getting a bit resistant to being in the stroller atm & will fight being strapped in & fuss a lot while he's riding. Maybe he's just trying to assert his independence ??? I'm actually thinking of getting a new one incase its b/c he's uncomfy.
Attempt for CN in cot failed, so I got him up & straight out in the car for a drive. He yawned, but still no nap. It was nearing 5pm by then so I went home, did his tea & he had EBT. Asleep 6.25pm (not as early as I'd have liked but compromise with DH ::)) So his day was: A = 4h 25, S = 1h 30, A = 6h 10. I actually think if I'd have managed to get that AM A time a little longer that could have been quite a good 1 nap day.
I guess I'll have to see how he fares overnight on just a 1.5hr nap & hope he hasn't built up too much OT from that super long A to BT.
Ladies, we got a 6:40am wu with a 7pm bt. I can't believe she didn't have any nws with a 1.5hour nap
This gives me hope! ;)
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Claire, that's kind of what happened to J this morning. Since I wasn't sure exactly when he woke up, I put him down around 9:20 and it took him a good 10 minutes to fall asleep. Normally, he's out really fast for naps. He still did about 35 this morning. Then 2.45 A and we're a little over an hour into the PM nap. So, we'll see how this goes.
Do you think he was OT? He did 1.5 hour nap, but 4 hour A. Maybe he needed more like 3.75 A?! IDK - just throwin' thoughts out there! I hope you have a good night with him!
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Thankyou
Our current easy is:
Wake 5am
Nap 8.30 (1hr 40)
Nap 1.10 (she was just so tired, 40mins)
BT - she fell asleep at 6.45, we tried for 6 but she took ages to settle
To be honest it changes every day. She woke at 5.50 today and was at nursery where she had 2 40min naps. She was asleep at 6.10.
How does it sound?
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Cyndie - I'll keep my FX'd its a good one for you!
Do you think he was OT? He did 1.5 hour nap, but 4 hour A. Maybe he needed more like 3.75 A?!
Don't think so - if he is he usually wakes & cries out at the 30min & 1hr mark & today there was nothing. Honestly in the last week I've had a couple of days where he's done 3h 40 then a 1.75hr nap or 1.5hr nap, but some days he's done 4h or even 4h 20 & still only done a 1.5hr nap. Can a 1.5hr nap actually be OT ??? I think yesterday must've been a catch up day as he slept WAY more than usual. So my thinking is that if I want a 2hr+ nap every day, then his A time needs to go towards 5hrs.
Ladies how quickly would you suggest I increase A times? 5 or 10mins every few days or do I just go for it & PD when he seems tired even if its 30mins later than usual???
Bellymonster - does she always nap so early in the day (8.40am)? IMHO I would first try & work on gradually pushing that AM nap a bit later in the day (ideally 9.30am earliest), as this will just keep encouraging the EW. We have just been through exactly this situation - DS has EW for 6months & we found he always wanted to nap between 8-8.30am b/c he was so tired from the EW. However, I have consistently pushed his nap a little later (say 10mins) every few days, and this has helped us to reach a decent BT (7pm) instead of having a super early BT (6pm) every day, and both of these things have REALLY helped with our EW. In the last week we have actually had five 6am or later WU's which is unheard of in our house!!! DS is now taking his AM nap around 10am. It is not without its difficulty though, as she WILL get tired.
The other ladies might have other thoughts on this.... but IIWM I would try this BEFORE you start with any nap cutting as from your EASY she's getting around 2h 20 day sleep which is not excessive - is this typical for her?
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Dang! Barely got a 1.5 hour nap this afternoon. Max A will have to be 4 hours. :( But, maybe he'll sleep good. Tomorrow's his 1st birthday party! He needs to be well rested. ;)
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Hi
Clairebear - same as you, I put her down at 8.30 cuz she's just so tired and grumpy by then but yes I can push it out by ten mins so its not so early. Would you recommend waking her after 45mins even if she's so tired by the time I put her down? And then go for a short A time and a long pm nap?
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Cyndie - I'll keep my FX'd!
Bellymonster - tough call. Maybe some other mama's have some suggestions/advice? I have actually recently tried both pushing out & capping our AM nap at the same time to try & rescue us from 6 months of EW. We went as far as to cut the AM nap to 20mins & pushed it out as far as 10am. His wakeup did improve (from 4-5am to 5-6am), BUT he also got pretty OT in the process. So in the last week, we have actually switched to long am/short pm even though I would have preferred to keep a short am/long pm routine. Since doing this our WU's have improved further & I think the fact that he can take a big long nap after being pushed in the AM helps to mop up any OT that might have accumulated. Of course, now we are getting rid of the EW, we have PM nap refusal to deal with instead!!! Ultimately, it all comes down to what suits you & your LO as to which route you take. As I said in my last post though, IMHO I would try & get that AM nap a little later first BEFORE you cap any naps. It might be that is enough to resolve your issues. If EW continue, then yes I'd say look at cutting one nap back.
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Thanks clairbear, I'll see how we go with a later am nap.
Good luck to everyone else. Naps and sleep times seem to have taken over my life!
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Wow! I have missed a lot! Hugs to everyone! Sounds like some good and some not so good days! Chin up! It does get better.
Clairbear- I did 10am and 2pm for both my LO's. I stuck to this as much as possible until I could push A times. Then I slowly moved them together. I only allowed max 2 hours for the whole day. BT always remained the same 7:30-7:45. I AP my babies!
Ambinsi-I understand what you are going through! I am sorry that you are so frustrated. I may not work right away but if you can get your LO on one nap it will be a bit easier with the new LO. Don't fight it too much. It may not happen right away which may also work since your new LO will be sleeping every 3-4 hours!! I agree with feeding lunch before. I do that and bottle when he wakes.
Bex-how are things?
We almost had a 2 nap day recently. His sister had an appt and he fell asleep in the car for 10 min. I woke him up and kept him very busy until his usual nap time. I can't go back to that!! For the most part we are one nap days however I still can't go anywhere after 10am or he will fall asleep!! He still does EW's but they are closer to his actual wake time than before. I AP him until he should get up. I find that bad nap leeds to EW's. I also found that too long a nap led to EW's. So you can't win!!!
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I did 10am and 2pm for both my LO's. I stuck to this as much as possible until I could push A times.
What length naps did you do??? Were you doing short AM/long PM? Our AM nap is generally around 10am, though I am literally just putting down following cues rather than A times or a set nap time. If he does 1.5hrs or more there is NO WAY he'd go down again at 2pm.
Ladies we got a 5.55am WU so 11.5hrs sleep. :D I think the super long afternoon yesterday has worn him out though. He's been OK this morning but clearly quite tired. PD as soon as he started laying his head on the floor & falling over - asleep at 10am (A = 4h 05). So I hope he has a decent sleep & catches up on what he missed yesterday. And of course, takes the CN this PM. I feel a long drive coming on ;)
ETA: Oh poo he woke after just 1h 20. Yet he seemed so much more tired this AM which is why we PD after a shorter A time. I think maybe I need to try & get him to at least 4.5hrs A & stick with that for a few days - what do you think???
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Thanks Lulunut!! I appreciate the advice and support.
Because she gets that morning bottle and then breakfast, she is not ready for lunch before the nap. I've tried and she's refused to eat much so what I've been doing is giving her a snack before her nap, something to fill her up a little, like a yogurt. As for the bottle upon wakeup, I know she won't take the bottle, then dinner and then another bottle - we're on 2 bottles a day and I'm lucky if she takes those. So there is no more afternoon bottle 99% of the time, I've been opting for an earlier dinner.
However, one thing I want to mention is that I have had some NWs lately. She IS teething (teeth are popping out left and right, I feel so bad for her!) but i've also been offering her bottle to get her to go back to sleep, plus pain reliever. Some nights she takes a few oz, some nights a full bottle, and some nights she STTN. Its confusing. Is this all part of the 2-1 or is it teething? I broke a NW/feeding habit not too long ago so I'm not happy this is happening again but if its teething I truly feel bad for her.
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Ladies, our day went:
Wake: 5.55am (11.5h night)
Nap: 10.00 - 11.20 A = 4h 5 S = 1h 20
Nap: 3.35 - 4.15 A = 4h 15 S = 40 min
BT: 7.10
Not sure if AM nap was cut short due to him not being *quite* tired enough (though after yesterday he did seem pretty tired if you ask me) OR if it was b/c he had done a poo. I suspect poo to be the culprit as he still seemed tired after he got up.
He went to MIL's this avo while we visited our new nephew in hospital (8wks prem & soooo tiny) & so I asked her to PD for a PM nap as I knew he'd be tired out. She PD at 3pm, we got back at 3.30 & he was still fussing a bit but went to sleep soon after. Woke 4.15 crying & very grumpy - with another dirty nappy - probably why he took so long to settle to sleep & woke up early. He took quite a while to settle at BT & I'm hoping he'll do a decent night after yet another day of 2h or less total day sleep.
Ladies should I be worried that DS is having less than 2h day sleep most days with a 13hr day? Is that pretty low for an almost 1YO? I still have this little OT niggle at the back of my mind & worry b/c he looks so tired & grey around his eyes all the time ATM. And there is this constant eye twitching going on too - that never used to happen.
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Claire, I wouldn't worry. :-* I have been MIA for a little bit b/c I am dealing with my toddler.
Anyhow, still on one naps. They haven't lengthened yet and nights are 11-12hrs. She can easily do a 5.5hour A with a nap of 1.5hours. :o :o Anyhow, she woke up at 6:15am this morning, took her out at 6:45am and put her down for her nap at 12pm. She slept from 12-2:11pm, with some help from me. ??? PUt her down at 7pm and she is yapping away atm. I just can't get her A times right.
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5.45am WU here only 10h 35 sleep. Do you think maybe b/c his PM nap was too late in the day/too long ??? Or just OT at BT from 2 days of short naps ??? I'm wondering if we are in an UT/OT cycle still as we seem to be getting a couple of really great days/nights then back to a really short one again. :-\
Sabs - thats a great nap she did yesterday. Sounds like you are getting there.x
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Claire, figuring out that last A has been my problem. When she does 5,5hours of A she will sleep 12hours but when it is 5hours, night sleep is shorter.
we got a 6:15am wu this morning again. here is yesterday:
wake 6:15am out at 6:45am
nap 12-2:11 (AP half of the nap)
in bed at 7pm but chatted until 7:30pm
Don't know if she was UT or OT here
woke up at 6am got her back down for 20min.
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Ladies, I wouldn't necessarily worry about LOs taking a while to settle to sleep. It doesn't have to mean they are UT or OT. DS always takes at least 20mins (sometimes 40mins) to sleep at BT after rolling around chatting to his toys and kicking his feet. But he is happy and STTN for 11.5hrs on average and one nap of ideally 2hr15 but can be anything from 1.5hrs to 3hr. I just work it into his routine. So if I want him asleep at 8pm I make sure he is in bed by 7.30 or 7.40pm.
Of course is they are unhappy/crying/fussing or you have to assist then it might be a problem but the time taken is not always indicative of an issue YK?
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Makes sense Ali. I want an 8pm bt but at the moment she seems to like 7pm.
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I don't know why we are stuck on these 1hr and 20min naps. You would think the nap would lengthen by now. She was asleep by 12pm and woke up at 1:20pm. I couldn't extend this one. Should I try a cn later?
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Sabs, if she can happily make it to a 7pm BT on that nap and is STTN I would just stick with it.
We have always done 8pm BT and used to get an 8am WU when he first started on 1 nap at 12.5mo. It is more like 7.30am now though with an 8pm BT.
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We got 1hr 20min naps when we 1st started 1nap at 15mo but they did get longer after a few weeks to about 2hrs.
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Sabs - if its any consolation we've had quite a few 1h 20 naps of late too!
Ladies our day today went:
WU 5.45 (10h 35 night sleep)
S: 10.10 - 12.05 (A = 4h 25 S = 1h 55)
CN: 3.40 - 4.00 (A = 3h 35 S = 20min) - CN in car on way home - earlier than I expected but maybe due to heat
BT: 7.10 (A = 3h 10) - BTPD 6.50. Suspect he is OT as A time too long after 20min CN & was struggling to settle
Ladies do you think we are on the right track? Today 4h 25 got us a 2hr nap, a couple of days ago we only got 1.5hrs or less. He is sooo confusing me with his A times! I'm thinking he must've been tired today as he did a much shorter 2nd A time than usual. After a 2hr nap he can usually easily do 4.5hrs. Unfortunately this left us with quite a long A to BT after only a short nap - I think this may have been too long since we have had a brief crying episode at 8.45pm.
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thanks Ali and others. I really hope her nap starts to lengthen out. I never know how long she will sleep for. I tried for a CN but she was just giggling so I aimed for a 6:45pm bt.
Claire, that looks good to me. It will probably take him a week or so to manage that A before bed. This happened to Alyssa.
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I just wanted to post, I'm sure it won't last but my chronically EW son had a catnap at 9am for 5 mins, lunchtime sleep 11:50 - 1:15pm then slept 7:00pm - 5:40am which is the best night sleep he's had in months!
(Oh a 1 hr 20 nap is a good one for us, he used to be a 45 min boy!)
Have faith!
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We got a 6.40am WU today so 11.5hrs sleep - albeit a little disturbed with brief crying at 8.45pm, 3.30am & stirring at 5ish 6ish & 6.30. I'm quite pleased as this puts us in good stead for pushing his A time a little today. I'm hoping he will go down for his nap after 11am - so would you say I could go for it with a 1 nap day ???
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thanks.
I say go for it claire.
so we got a 610am wu this morning. over a 11hr night, but I really hate this wake up time. She used to do 12hrs but now it has gotten shorter.
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Claire, nice WU!! I'd love one of those! ;)
We had a rough weekend. Jack's 1 year molars are all swollen and really bothering him. He hardly napped on saturday and was up at 5am the entire weekend. Yesterday I let him sleep to catch up from Saturday. He did 3 hours of naps (I actually woke him in the PM after 2 hours). I think he did a 10 hour 45 minute night. I'm not entirely sure. I heard him fussing around 4:30 this morning, but he quieted down quickly. Then I heard him again around 6. He was wide awake, though, so not sure exactly what time he woke. I'm thinking maybe 5:30/5:45. Either way, I'm going to aim for a 9:30 nap. Going to do 30. So tempted for 45, but I think I just need to start cutting it shorter so we can get rid of these 5am WUs. We're going on vacay in 3 months and that's all the time I have to rid of these. We cannot all be waking up (in the hotel room) at 5am every morning. ::) So, I want him transitioned to one nap and (hopefully) a more decent WU time. Good thing I have a few months to work on this. ;)
I haven't had time to read back and respond much to anyone, but I'll get to that today!
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Oh no Cyndie - poor J he must be really sore. I can totally sympathise on the molars front - we've cut 2 already & the top ones look like they are coming now too. Hope he had a good birthday despite that ??? Can't believe our LO's are all turning 1 - O's b'd is less than 3 wks away now!
I say go for it with the shorter AM nap & see if it helps your WU!
We're attempting a 1 nap day today!!! He did 5hrs A time this morning & played happily, no fussing or eye rubbing or yawning at all - just started looking a bit tired around 11am so I did him an early lunch & he was asleep at 11.40am. Am hoping it will be a good 2-2.25hr nap to get us through to BT at 7pm.
ETA: boo!! He cried out at 1.5hrs then started stirring at around 1h 45-50. I'm pleased he had a long sleep but shouldn't a 5hr A have given us 2hrs at least ??? Yesterday we got 2hrs with an A time of 4h 25. Did I go too far or was he not tired enough after an 11.5hr night ???
Its now 1.35pm & a looong way to BT - so should I do a short 10min CN if I can get it, or just stick with the 1 nap & do BT when ???
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I would personally do a 10min Cn-if he will take it.
Put her down at 12pm and woke up at 1pm, had to settle. Grrr. I don't have the energy to deal with this ATM. :'(
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i.5 hr nap here. At least yours was better Claire.
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Sabs - thats a shame. Are you doing CN or just EBT? I hope you get a decent night from her tonight.
We didn't manage to get a CN. Went for a drive but he just played. He got quite fussy after his tea & I'm not sure if it was just tiredness or b/c his teeth were hurting (think top molars coming now) or just b/c his daddy was home but outside with a tradesman & he wanted to play with him & couldn't.
So day went:
wake: 6.40
Nap: 11.40 - 1.25/30
BT: 6.55 (PD at 6.35 aiming for 12hr day - bit of crying like he was OT & struggling to settle).
What do you think ladies? Was the last A time too long given he did a shorter nap ??? Am not entirely sure if he is ready for this 1 nap thing or not but I guess we just have to see how the night pans out & go from there.
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After a few days of 1.5 hour naps (which is amazing for us, I'm thrilled) DD woke up today after only an hour. I left her in the crib for another 15 - 20 mins (not crying, just kind of sitting up, rolling around, etc.) but she didn't go back. About 5 minutes after I got her out of the crib she pooped....I think that's what woke her up. Does this ever happen to anyone? When I poop ruins a nap I want to cry, lol.
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I think the poop worked.
good luck Claire for tonight. I think he probably may be a little OT but remember he needs to get used to having longer A times now.
We did a 7pm bt. She is used to long A now. I just want our wu to be closer to 7am.
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Sabs - think OT is right on the mark. 5.40am WU here - 10h 45night. Am not surprised as 1h 45 total day sleep is a bit on the low side for O. Lately he's done his best nights with a 2hr AM & a 10-20min PM so I think I may aim for that today. We'll see!
Hope you got a better wakeup today.
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I think it is very normal for this. Aim for a two nap day.
We got an 11hr night. I can't seem to shift her day forward b/c she keeps waking up at 6am. Bt is 7pm. She won't nap longer so I flipping stuck.
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Can you nudge nap & therefore BT later by say 10mins? Do this every few days until you get where you want to be ??? I know sometimes easier said than done but might be worth a try?
O managed a 5hr A again this AM. Still asleep & coming up to 1h 45. FX'd he sleeps a while longer yet. His teeth seem to be really hurting him today - upper molars coming in now. I'll sure be glad when all this teething business is done!
ETA: I shouldn't have just wrote that - he literally just woke as I pressed post. 1h 45 again. Why ladies ??? Does he need an even longer A ??? Last week we got 2h & 2h 15 naps on 3h 40 and 4h A times. I am so lost with him!!! He's woken up crying & its only 12.20pm. Its going to be a long time to BT today. Siigh. :'(
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Bad morning. Up before 5. UGH! UGH, again!! >:( I think he was OT. Had short naps yesterday and a traumatic incident. He fell really hard on his mouth and has a fat lip. The inside of his lip was all swollen and bruised. :( Poor babe. He got a late nap PM nap b/c I took him to the dr to check it out (he's fine, thankfully!). So, he napped from 2-3:10 and I woke him to maintain a decent BT. But then I didn't get him in bed till just after 7. So, I think that was way too long of an A with only an hour PM nap.
Today's going to be a bit wonky b/c he's already OT. I might have to let him do an hour this morning. Well, I think I'll only do 45. We've been keeping with the 45. Then I'll aim for a much earlier PM nap, like around 12:30, and hopefully he'll do 2 hours there to make up. Then, probably a 6:30 BT (depending on that PM nap) to catch up some more. Argh! This is so tough!
Claire, I was reading your post yesterday and was cringing at the 11-12:30 (ish) nap. I dread that stage! LOL! I remember going thru it with dd. She would do 1 nap early like that and I'd be so panicked that I had 6 hours of afternoon to fill. She was so crabby too and would only nap 1.5 hours max. She's also spirited, so that frustrated things even more. I really am hoping J's a little easier when we get to that stage.
ETA: He just woke himself after 45. He was sooo tired and I kept him up till the usual time. Hoping for an early and good PM nap!
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Claire, I question A's nap all the time. She is already doing 5.5hours of A time and that doesn't even give me a two hour nap. Does she need to do 6hrs? I just don't get it.
Poor little man! I am sure he has already forgotten his fall.
All I have to say is I hate 2-1 but I really hate 1-0? LOL
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ladies, she woke up 45min later. I was able to get her back down. Technically from a 6am wu, she is doing 6hours. Do you think she is just plain OT? I count her A time from 6:30am instead of 6am. :-X I don't know if I should try a 11:30am nap tomorrow if she wakes at 6am.
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Overall nap was 1hr an 40min. I had to hold her for 10min. :-\
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Sabs - did she wake crying? 6hrs does sound a lot - so could be OT. I guess if she were truly UT, she would wake happy & wouldn't resettle as she'd have had enough sleep IYSWIM? I have a BW friend whose LO wakes at 6am BT at 7pm & he does 5hrs A in the AM so nap is 11-1 or thereabouts. But then he prefers his longest A time to BT.
Cyndie - hope you get caught up on your OT. LOL that my post made you cringe!!! We had similar happen today aaarrrggghhhh
So ladies he did:
Wake: 5.40
Nap: 10.40 - 12.20 (why oh why 1h 45 again after 5hrs A ???)
CN: 4.30 - 4.45 (in car)
BT: 7.00 (he just had a little cry 10mins after BT though so I think he's OT)
So only 2hrs sleep for a day 13h 20 long. I think we are also in OT territory & I really hope the longer day doesn't mean he gives us another shorter night.
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No luck on him catching up today. I don't know if it's his molars or what, but he just woke from his PM nap after only an hour. He did a 3 hour A between naps (AM was barely 45 minutes). He was super tired, so I guess we have another OT situation with this EW from nap. Grrrr! And....it's only 1:30 pm. :(
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Cyndie - oh poor J. How long was he up before his AM nap today? Maybe it was just the accumulated OT & the 3hr A was too much? Give him an couple of hours then could you get him down again for a little CN??? Maybe go for a drive? At least that way he hasn't got such a long time to BT. & remember tomorrow is a new day! :-*
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Cyndie, tomorrow is a new day. :-* :-*
After her nap today , we went to the beach and on the way home she dozed off for 5mins in the car. I think she fell asleep around 7:15pm.
did I mention I hate naps!
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we got a 5:40am wu here. What in the world is going on?
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So did we but 5:40am is a good day for us!!!
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Yeah, a 5:40 would be good for us too! ;)
So, yesterday, after he woke early from his PM nap, I let him be up there for a good 6-7 minutes and he went back to sleep for another hour+!! I let him sleep and he was a happy camper. :) Woke about 3:00 and I still kept a 7pm BT b/c he had such a long nap, afterall. He went right to sleep at 7 and had a good night. I 'think' he woke around 5:30ish?! I'm not really too sure. It might have been earlier. I turn down the monitor and don't tend to hear him till he's really up and babbling or even fussing to get out. Unfortunately, I had to do an early nap this morning b/c we have an appt late morning. So, it'll be early (which he should do just fine) and short. Hoping to get another 12:30-2:30 nap this afternoon!
Now....if we can only get out WU's to 6am, that would be awesome! :)
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Sorry ladies...... we got 6.10am today! However you might all let me off given how many months of horrible EW's we have had!!!
That was 11h 10 night sleep for us. So not too bad. He's at IL's today & his naps are usually shorter than at home so I suspect I will be out for a drive with him this afternoon to try & get the elusive CN.
Ladies he almost fell asleep on the way to IL's this morning at 9.45am. Yawning & that glazed look - do you think thats just b/c he was in the car or b/c he was actually tired??? He perked up a bit once we got there & I told them to PD at 11.10am (5hr A) or earlier if they felt he needed it, but I'm a little worried he was maybe ready to sleep at 9.45 (3h 40 A). He has these super huge bags under his eyes & they are just not going away. :-\
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Update:
Wake: 6.10am
Nap: 11.35am - 1.20pm A = 5h 25 S = 1h 45
BT: 6.35pm A = 5h 15
I'm pleased he slept more at the IL's than usual but still only 1h 45 (why no more ???), and that was after a whopping 5h 25!!!! I asked them to PD at 5hrs but they were a little late & then it took him a while to settle to sleep. He's been happy all afternoon - I took him for a drive at 4.30 to try & get a CN then realised he'd only been awake 3hrs so it was unlikely, he didn't fall asleep. So we had to do EBT. I wanted to have him asleep no later than 6.40pm as he's never slept more than 11.5hrs so if I make the day shorter than 12.5hrs then we'd get an earlier WU tomorrow. I think he was OT at BT though. So we'll see what tomorrow brings.
Ladies do you think I should cut back that AM A time again ??? He was (sometimes) doing longer naps when he was doing 3h 40 - 4h 20 A time. Maybe I have pushed too far? Yet we're not getting OT wakeups during naps.
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Claire, I am still trying to figure out A times. We got a two hour nap today but I had to go AP the last half of it.
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Yay hooray for the 2hr nap!!! Hope you get a good night & a lovely WU tomorrow.x
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Claire, does your LO not show tired signs? That sounds like a challenge trying to figure ourt when to PD!!
I decided today was the day for our 1st 1 nap day. Just not enough time to fit in 2 anymore, so I fed some early lunch and let him decide when nap time was and to my surprise he went 5:05 A!! He woke at 6:40 so hopefully he goes for a good couple hours nap. His longest A time in evening is 5 hrs, usually I do 4:30. What should I do for BT tonight? I guess it depends on when he wakes?
I usually bath at 6:45 and he is asleep at 8, so not sure what to do tonight....
I really want to avoid to EW business....
Sabs, I know you used to get a 10.5 hr sleep, has that gotten longer on 1 nap now? I am scared to do BT at 6:30 and have him wake for the day at 5!
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toffer - we don't get much by way of tired signs! Of late, we've had no eye rubbing, fussing or anything. We only ever get yawns in the car. All he seems to do is start to lose coordination & his grey bags under his eyes (that to me seem to be there permanently these days) become more pronounced. He's been going quite hyper & excitable lately too, and lots of tantrums if he can't have exactly what he wants. I am just unsure if he is not showing the usual tired signs b/c he is OT or if he's just not tired at all!
does your LO show his tired signs loud & clear??? So your first 1 nap day! Hope its a good one! IIWM I'd keep day to 12 or 12.5hrs at absolute most, of course depending on how well he naps. I think most people say the naps & nights extend once on 1 nap but it can take a week or 2 for this to happen. I live in hope as we are stuck on 1h 45 naps ATM!!!
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Well, he woke at 1:25 into his nap. It is now 1:15 here, so 6:30 BT ?
He yawns, rubs eyes and gets fussy, so lots of sleep signs. Though lately he is super clingy and needs way more holding before I can PD. He screams and pops up instantly if I PD too soon. Several teeth popping right now though.
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Ended up sleeping at 7:25. So my bub did a 5:05 1st A then a 6:15!!! No wonder he was so hard to get to do 2 naps with a 4 hr A time, LOL Gosh I hope he has a good night and it works out ok....maybe I was scared for no reason.
For those bubs that EW and NW in the 2-1 can I ask if they did that before on 2 naps?
or was it a new thing once you started the 2-1?
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Yesterday 1 nap at home 11:15-12:30 and 7:15pm - 5:40am, no wake ups. The best sleep we've had for some time here for my nearly 15 month old!
We'll get there!
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For those bubs that EW and NW in the 2-1 can I ask if they did that before on 2 naps?
Yes yes yes! Ours started around 5.5months when we dropped NF & needed to lose the CN. And its continued ever since!!!!
Hope you both had good wakeups following your 1 nap days?
We had a brief WU at 4.30 & 5.15 & then he was up for the day at 6am - 11.5hrs sleep. Great - however he is VERY tired this morning, falling over, laying his head on the floor etc etc, so I actually decided to PD at 9.30am. He was asleep after 3h 40 A time with no complaints. I think my conclusion from this is that my boy is not ready for 1 nap yet. So I'm pulling it all back a bit & we'll see how he goes.
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we got a 6am wu. Not sure if it was b/c her sister was calling out for me, so that was an 11hr night. I need to shift her wu time but can't b/c her nap always has to be extended and is not long enough. Still waiting for this nap to get longer. ::) ::) ::)
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Ladies, I'm so frustrated. Seems no matter what I do, I still can't get him to have a decent WU. :( He can nap for 2 hours or 3 hours and we still get a 5-5:15am WU. He doesn't seem to do more than 10, maybe 10.5 at night. I know he's capable, b/c he has done it in the past. I am soooo tired of waking at 5am. LOL! Woe is me, huh?! ;)
But, really, his clock seems so stubborn and stuck at 5am. Do I just keep trucking along, pushing out that AM nap and cutting it? Then we'll end up with an early BT for awhile, which would still result in an EW, wouldn't it?
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Cyndie, I found that going on one nap has helped Alyssa sleep 11-11.5hrs, but of course they get OT and the night begins to get short again.
So I put her down at 11:45am and she fell asleep on the bottle. She didn't show any tired signs all morning until I walked into her room. I guess I will be extending this nap. Why oh why can't this girl at least sleep 1.5hours on her own.
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Cyndie - forgive me if I have already asked you this, but have you ever tried W2S ??? He wakes at pretty much the same time every day right? So may be habitual waking rather than routine related? Just wondered if this might help you extend your nights a bit. I never tried it for our EW b/c DS always woke at differing times so I'd never know when to go in to him.
Sabs - if you do a slightly shorter AM A time will she still take a decent nap? I'm just wondering if she could be a tad OT & this is why she is waking between sleep cycles & you are having to AP her back to sleep ??? Only saying this b/c O hasn't hardly shown any tired signs the last few days & he's been doing 5hr A times & then today he has utterly crashed out. So I know it was way too much for him. In fact I think his tired signs are changing now he is becoming a toddler & instead of the fussing & crying/screaming we got when he was younger, he seems to be going all hyper & super excitable & loses coordination.
Ladies - Our day has been a catch up day. Oliver is VERY VERY tired. I guess this proves we are not ready for 1 nap days yet.
Wake: 6am
Nap: 9.35 - 11.40 A = 3h 35 S = 2h 05 (he still had HUGE bags & looked tired even after a 2hr nap!)
CN: 3.35 - 4.20 A = 3h 55 S = 45min (I woke him or who knows how long he'd have slept?!)
BT: 7.15 A = 2h 55 (teensy bit worried this was too short - what do you think ???)
I'm hoping & praying that the extra day sleep will have helped him catch up, but won't take from his night sleep tonight. He could really do with a decent long sleep (PLEASE!!!)
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I wanted to give you all a bit of hope. My serial EW this morning woke at 5:40am which I'm prepared to accept tbh but then stayed in his cot till 6am chattering away!!!! Mummy lie in!
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Yay how lovely!!!! I love laying & listening to DS chattering - its so cute!!!
Ladies, we've had another unintended 1 nap day again due to PM nap refusal:
Wake: 5.30am (10h 15 night sleep - not sure if too much day sleep or PM nap too late caused this)
Nap: 10.15 - 12.15 A = 4h 45m S = 2h
BT: 6.30 A = 6h 15m
I tried for a CN - walked him in the stroller for 1.5hours this afternoon, around 4pm he yawned twice, shook his head & had that glazed look - but didn't fall asleep & got all fussy instead.
Ladies, he's doing the A times & lovely long nap that we need for a 1 nap day, but its just all too early in the AM. If he then refuses a CN we can't get to a decent BT without OT. How do we proceed ??? Do I just need to push the 1 nap days in the hopes he gets used to it & sleeps a consistently long night? Do I need to do a much earlier BT to keep his day to 12 or 12.5hrs max? How do I get that nap shifted out to start at 12 when he keeps waking early every few days ???
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Claire, if I had to guess I would say you need a later bedtime to give you a later W/U, but not sure how you can get there with such an early W/U. Does he sleep in some mornings so you can try it?
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It is a toughie Claire. I really don't know too.
Well, we got a 6:15am wu put her down at 11:45am and she slept until 2:10pm, but I had to AP her back to sleep a few times. This entire week i had to AP the last half of her nap. ??? ??? Put her down at 7:15pm as I am trying to shift her day, but I don't think this will work. She is yapping away up there ATM.
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Clairbear- sorry I haven't got back sooner. When I did 2 naps I did longer AM and shorter PM. Some do the opposite. Whatever works for you. I found that I could extend the am A times easier with a longer AM nap. When I first went to 1 nap he only did 45-60 min. I had to AP him. Now he does 1.25-1.5.
I found that it didn't matter what time I put him to bed he would still do EW. So this lead me to keep BT at the same time. If he doesn't get long night sleep he makes up for it in the next day nap. When I know that he does this I cap his nap at 1.5 hours and do a 15-30min earlier BT. Some babies will just do between 10-12 hours at night. I depends on the babe. My DD did 10 hour nights for a long time. She has just now been doing 11 hours, probably due to shortening her nap to 1.25 hours. (We are in transition to no naps!)
And for all those EW babe's...mine STILL does EW. Usually 5:30-5:45. I AP him until 6-6:30. Our usual wake time. i get the odd 6am or later wake and I have no idea what makes this happen! I have just given up on fighting it and just going with it!!! I just goto bed earlier!!
Hugs for all of you!!
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He woke at 5:50am this morning then chatted till 6:10am. We did a bit of PUPD which wasn't successful (go figure) to try and extend his sleep but since then it seems to be getting better? Go figure! Maybe it's the PUPD, maybe it was teething? Who knows! I'm sure it won't last but I'm enjoying it while it does!
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Glad things are improving Lemonthyme.
We got a 6am WU today so 11.5hrs sleep. Which is great. He is very tired again this morning though, probably due to the huge 6hr+ A time he did yesterday, so has gone to bed at 10.10am. Ladies I think I am going to try & do a set nap of 10am & cap at 1.5hrs, to try & ensure we get that PM nap, AND give some consistency to the day. I suspect he may not sleep for his PM nap until 4hr A time which leaves us with a quandry over how long to let him sleep, since if he does 45mins the nap will be 3.30-4.15. With a 7pm BT this is probably not enough A time after the nap & will result in EW. So I was thinking of maybe doing 30mins 3.30-4pm & then a 6.30pm BT, in hopes of an 11.5hr night. What do you think?
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Ladies, what am I doing wrong?!?! Here's what he did yesterday...
5:15am wake
9:15-10 nap (I woke him)
1-2:30 nap (he woke on his own)
6:40 BT
5:00 am WU this morning :(
He stayed in his own bed whining and playing till just before 6, but never would go back to sleep.
He only had 2.15 in naps yesterday and a 10 hour 20 minute night. Should he have had an earlier BT? I just don't understand where I am going wrong....
To make matters worse, I found out that dd will be in PM preschool in the fall. That is awful for ds's nap schedule. School is 12:45-3:15. I have to leave around 12:30 to drive her and we won't get back till 1:00. If we start transitioning to 1 nap, he'll want to sleep from 11-1 or something like that and won't nap while she's in school. :( I was hoping she would get into the AM class and he would nap after I picked her up. So, now I don't know what to do. If he continues to wake at 5am, there's no way he'll be able to do one nap at 1:00 until he's closer to age 2. That's a long way off.
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Cyndie - did you see my last post to you about W2S ??? I really don't think your naps are excessive but yes the night is a tad short. I really do think it has a lot to do with the AM nap starting to early. Could you try shifting it out a little so it starts no earlier than 9.30am? We have been in pretty much the same boat up to now with these darn EW's & this is the one thing that has REALLY helped us. We are now doing AM nap at around 10am & we are getting 11-11.5hr nights generally. We've even been able to keep BT at 7pm.
I was just thinking re: your situation with DD starting preschool. If you could get your AM nap starting say 30mins later, but keep it at 45mins & shift everything else 30mins later too (incl BT) then your day would fit around her schooling. Might not resolve the short nights but would help with the this.
Also did you try a 30min AM nap?
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Claire, I somehow missed your last response to me about W2S, but I just went back and read it. :) I have not tried that. I'll have to look into it. Not sure how it works.
It's sooo hard to get to 9:30 when he wakes at 5am. That 4.5 hours is tough for him, but I really gotta push thru it. I'll be honest, and say that I haven't tried 30 minutes consistently. I'll do it for a few days, then go back to 45 b/c he seems OT or has bad PM naps or something. I need to push forward more if I want to resolve this.
As far as the preschool hours, do you think I should just keep up with the 2 naps for awhile then? I think she starts in about 4 weeks. I doubt he'll be ready for only 1 nap by then, but I'm betting by fall he will be (hopefully). That's a good suggestion to shift everything 30 minutes forward. However, his current schedule would still work for her school if I keep the 2 naps. We could do 9:30-10, then 1-2:30 or so. I could keep pushing it out slowly till we get to 10-10:20/10:30 and same PM nap time.
This is so much work - LOL!
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It's sooo hard to get to 9:30 when he wakes at 5am. That 4.5 hours is tough for him, but I really gotta push thru it.
I know exactly what you mean. We had the exact same performance, but I stuck it out despite how tired O was getting. And after a few weeks he is quite happy to take his nap that bit later. And we are generally up around 6am now which is waaay better than the 5's or 4am's we were getting before.
Ladies - our day has gone:
Wake: 6am
Nap: 10.10 - 11.40 A = 4h 10 S = 1.5hrs (we woke him at 1.5hrs or he'd likely refuse the PM nap)
CN: 3.55 - 4.25 A = 4h 15 S = 30min (PD at 3.30. He struggled to settle, then he woke himself at 30mins - OT???)
BT: 7pm
Do you think that 2nd A was too long after a 1.5hr nap ??? He yawned in the car after 2h 45 but didn't sleep, so he carried on playing at home. He was starting to look a bit tired by 3.30, but I wasn't sure if he was quite ready for sleep or if he'd gone past the point! PD & he fought - kicking the cot rails & shouting for a while before going to sleep. Then a 30min nap - OT??? Maybe I should have PD at 3pm (3.5hrs A) instead?
I'm actually wondering if we are just going to encourage EW by having a 30min nap after 4pm & so close to BT at 7pm. Is a 2.5hr A time at the end of the day actually long enough for an almost 1YO???
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Hmmm, Claire, I'm not sure, but I probably would have done 3.5 A. It's so hard to find the right balance and it seems to change daily. Confusing, for sure!
We had an interesting day yesterday. So, he was up super early. Crabby, crying and all that by 8:30am. We had to go to the city for a birthday party and I knew we'd be gone all afternoon and he would only get a quick nap in the car. I decided to put him down a little early for the AM nap and let him sleep. He did 8:30-10:15. Really good! Then he napped in the car from 2-2:30. Was up (and really really happy) the entire afternoon at the party. We didn't leave till about 6:25 (his typical BT!) and he didn't sleep in the car. By the time we got home, did bath and went to bed it was 8pm.
So, it looked like this...
5:00 wake
8:30-10:15 nap
2-2:30 nap
8:00 BT
6:00 WU
Very interesting he had another 10 hour night, but he did have an incredibly long PM 'A' after only a 30 minute nap. However, I was pleased to see he didn't wake at 5am! I have hope now - LOL!
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Cyndie/Sabs - how are things going?
Ladies....we had a 1 nap day again today.
Wake 6.30am
Nap: 11.30 - 1.30 (at IL's - woohoo! longest nap he's ever taken at their house!!!)
BT: 6.40pm
I wasn't sure whether to do 6.30 or 7pm BT b/c the longest night he's ever done is 11.5hrs, but I didn't want to push him too far & cause OT. So opted for 6.30pm. I guess if he wakes at 6am tomorrow we'll know he needs that slightly longer A to BT.
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Great job Claire. It has been a while ladies. I am trying to sort out my toddler's sleep. She is my good sleeper and ATM we are going through SA and 1-0.
We were doing fairly well with one naps. They were varying from 1hr and 45min to about 2.5hours. Of course I have to always extend. I find that A does better with a 5.5 A in the am and pm. today I tried a two nap day as we got a 5:30am wu. Don't know if she went to bed UT the previous night as she just chatted and laughed for a good 20min. We had a really long day today b/c of the CN. She was asleep by 7:45pm. Normally, bt varies between 7-7:30pm.
I will try to come back soon ladies. I need to sort out the other girl first as she is just in an OT mess. :'(
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Claire, that is AWESOME!! Great job! I am so jealous of his 6:30 WU! ;)
Sabs, glad you are doing pretty good with one nap!
We are still, pretty much, in the same position. I've played around with a long AM/short PM, but that didn't make a difference (well, I only did it for maybe 2 days in a row). Yesterday he had a 1.5 hour AM nap, which I woke him from b/c we had to leave. Then he did 30 minutes in the car from 2:30-3. He didn't go to bed till about 6:45 or so. Then he woke at 5:45 this morning. He did wake at 4:45, fussed for a minute or two and went back to sleep (thank goodness!). So, I guess we got (just about) an 11 hour night - which I shouldn't complain about! And naps yesterday were 2 hours total.
The only thing that I'm 'concerned' about is that now when he wakes in the morning he's automatically whiney and whines till I get him up. He use to quietly play, talk/babble, then fuss after about 30-45 minutes. Do you think he's waking crabby b/c he's OT? I just don't understand why he use to wake happy and now he wakes whiney. :(
Today, we have nothing planned except errands, so I'm going to aim for a 9:30-10 AM nap, then probably 12:30/1 PM nap. He might be slightly OT from yesterday (and Sunday as he didn't get good naps) but I'm going to wing it and see what happens. Worse case, he'll just do early BT.
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Sabs - great Alyssa is still doing OK with her 1 nap days. Sorry to hear you are having trouble with Madi - hope things settle with her soon.
Cyndie - so your WU this morning was later than usual then - that's great! Out of interest, what time did he wake yesterday & what time was his AM nap? Just wondered if it was a bit later than usual ? I'm just wondering if you are in a pretty similar position as we were a few weeks back & need to get that AM nap pushed out a bit more. His crabbiness at WU could be a bit of OT - esp if you have been pushing out the AM nap, but hopefully if you work your way through it & keep on pushing you might break the EW cycle & get some longer nights. We too had a very early AM nap not so long ago & O is just amazing me now with the long A times he can handle. I think I'd just never pushed him before b/c of fear of making him OT but this was just perpetuating the problem for us. I'll keep my FX'd for you that you get a good result tonight anyway.
Ladies, today went:
Wake: 6am (after brief WU at 10pm & 4.30am. Total night sleep 11h 20)
Nap: 11.05am - 1.45pm (brief WU at 40mins - cried for a minute then back to sleep. OT ??? I woke him at 2h 40 b/c I was scared to let him sleep any longer - was this stupid?! )
BT: 7pm
I'm not sure if the monster nap & the 40min WU mean he was OT ??? I got scared to let him sleep longer b/c one of the other 2-1 ladies did a 3hr nap the other day & got EW the next day, but then maybe I am silly to compare as our LO's are different! O is cutting top molars ATM so maybe this is making him extra sleepy. I so hope we don't get EW tomorrow!
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