BabyWhispererForums.com
SLEEP => Sleeping For Toddlers => Topic started by: <Catherine> on August 10, 2011, 19:02:31 pm
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Continued from http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=173945.msg2286390#msg2286390
If I could also remind everyone to please avoid m-a-r-king :)
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Argh! I just typed out a whole response to you, Claire, and it got locked when I sent it and it all disappeared. :( So, I'll try again...
I think he was up early yesterday. Pretty sure around 5:15. I had to do an early nap b/c we had somewhere to be. I let him nap from 8:45-10:15 and I woke him. Then he did 2:30-3 in the car. I do remember him having a 6am WU a few days ago, but it was still a 10 hour night. Got to rid of those! He went to bed super late (well, for him) at 8pm and woke at 6am. So, I guess that doesn't count. ;) I'm just happy he's made it past 5:15 a few times. That gives me hope that he's not perpetually stuck there. Right?!
This morning, he woke at 5:45 and I put him down at 9:30. He woke, himself, at 10. UT?! He's been in a super mood so I kept him up till 1:00 for the PM nap. It's now 2:15 and he's been stirring since just after 2. :( OT?! It's gonna be a loooonnng afternoon if he doesn't go back to sleep.
Claire, I think we are in a very similar situation that you and O were in a few weeks/months ago. I hope to get to where he is now soon! I just gotta keep pushing that AM nap out to 9:30 for 30 minutes and go from there.
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I am back ladies. Alyssa is giving me 1hr and 20min naps again. I can mostly extend them but today I couldn't so I have to fit in a Cn.
everyone is telling me that a 1hr and 20min nap is OT, I guess they are right. She woke up this morning at 6:20am and I put her down for her nap at 11:40am, she was fussing earlier, so possibly OT, and woke up at the 50min mark then again at the 1hr and 20min mark, which I couldn't extend. Now I have to fit in a Cn and do a later bt. This is really tough!
I hope your days are going well.
what do 1hr and 20min naps mean for your lo?
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Ok, here is a strange one! The last two days he hasn't gone down for his nap until 3pm. He has been with Grannie and I am guessing it's OS. When I goto pick him up around 2-3pm he falls asleep in the car. I let him sleep and hour with later BT. I still get EW with this. What the heck?
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I'm getting the same problem, Lulunut! Have posted on the "sleeping for toddlers" board but not had a response yet. I'm not getting EWs but all of a sudden she's changed from having a 2-3 hour nap starting at approx 11.30/12 with clear sleepy cues, to not seeming tired at all!! So am having to just assume she's tired when it gets to about 1.30pm (even though she's running around) and then hold her in my arms in her room for about 10mins to get her drowsy for her nap. She's sleeping 1.5hours tops. She also wakes up from the nap grumpy (never used to).
She goes to bed about 7pm and wakes between 6.15-7am.
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I think we're in the midst of an OT/UT loop (again!). His schedule today has been:
5:30 wake
9:30-10 nap (he woke) He might have been up closer to 6am, but I'm not totally sure. He didn't make any noise this morning and when I checked on him at 6, he was wide awake. So, not exactly sure when he woke up.
1:00-2:00 nap (he woke himself and won't resettle to go back down) :(
BT is going to have to be early. Bummer b/c I just made plans to hang with some friends. I assumed he'd give me a good 1.5. Guess we'll have to cut that short.
Yesterday, we had a similar issue. He took a 30 minute in the morning (9:30-10), woke on his own. Then woke after an hour and 20 minutes into the PM nap. Why am I getting such short naps now?! The morning one, I don't care about b/c we want it to be short. But the PM cannot be only and hour or even an hour 20 is not good when he's only done 30 in the AM and has been up since 5:30! Is he OT?! Should he be napping closer to 12:30 if he only does 30 in the AM?
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Alyssa is the queen of 1hr and 20min naps. Today she finally took a 2 hour nap on her own without me needing to extend. A time for that was 5hrs and 20min. Was it a fluke? I don't know!
Can you push out that am nap to at least 9:45am and cap it to 20min. I haven't figured out if 1hr and 20min naps are Ut or OT. I really don't know! I wonder if you can have him down for his nap 2.5hours after his 30min nap. You can see what that gives you.
so we had a really perfect day here.
wake 6:30am
nap 11:55-2pm(no intervention required)I am shocked but know this won't last.
in bed at 7:15pm and has been chatting for the last 15min.
Don't know what kind of wu we will get tomorrow.
I am always on edge with her nap. I always have to extend it for some reason. maybe 5.5hrs in the am is too much. Going to try the same A time tomorrow and see what I get or else I am going to increase it.
Claire, how's it going?
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I rarely get him down for more than 1.5 for nap. The last few days have been catch up days since Grannies. He slept through until 6:30am with 1.5 nap that day. He is getting his eye teeth. This may also be messing things up. Is that what is happening to you MackJack?
i have also heard of some kids going down from 1-3pm for nap. I have always done 12pm but that is what works for me. I can't them down for BT if it's later. Anyone else have 1-3 work for them? What time would you do BT?
Sabs-good job on your perfect day!!
New mama- I say try earlier nap time. Hugs!
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I am also getting 1 hr 20 min naps all of a sudden but I take him at 12 pm to his room and have story time W/D and he is not showing tired signs when we go. I wanted him to sleep 12:30-2:30 so BT could still be before 8:30 pm since he can do 6 hr A time but maybe UT is causing short naps since he is up by 1:30? Maybe I will push it a bit later and see how that works. Somedays he does 2+ hr naps but maybe is awake earlier those morning.....Tricky figuring out these monkeys sometimes!
1 nap is working well for me though otherwise so far.
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let me know if pushing that nap out helps. I know for some moms those naps mean teething. I think Alyssa is teething here. Then again, they are always teething, aren't they?
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Yup! we are behind in that department. Finn has 2 bottom fronts and one top just popped through and the other is swollen. His mollars feel like big bumps too, but he wouldn't get them before the other fronts would he?
Just about nap time so we will see how it goes...
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Yep, teeth do it all the time!
As far as order, usually it's four fronts then molars then eye teeth and second molars, but anything is possible. My 3 year old and 16mt old are still missing the second front bottom ones. My 3 yr old has one lower eye tooth that is half way out too!
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Well, we had a 2 hr nap and may have gone longer if grandparents hadn't shown up then. I waited for yawn before we went into his room also and had about a 2 min WD instead of 15.
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Ladies, last few days we have been doing 2 naps again. I decided O was just looking exhausted all the time & maybe not showing tired signs b/c he was constantly OT. Took him out in pushchair the other morning whjen I had intended to do a 1 nap day & he fell asleep unexpectedly at 9.30am for 45mins & so I did a 1.5hr PM nap & than night he still gave me 11-11.5hrs. The next day a 1 nap day & we got 12hrs overnight - YAY!!!! But the day afetr there was no way in the world he was going to make it past 10am & that was only 3.5hrs A time.
So for the past couple of days we've been doing a 45min nap at 10am & then a 1.5hr nap at around 1.45-2pm. BT at 7pm & he's been waking 6.15-6.30am. So I'm pretty pleased with that. We're carrying on with this for a while - I think he definitely needs 3.75hrs min A time before BT so we might have to pull the AM or PM nap a touch earlier if we can. Am hoping this will suit us for a while, at least just to help him get over the OT. His bags are seriously improving!!!
Cyndie - when I did 30min AM nap, I went for 2.5hrs A after it, so PM nap would be 12.30. He would then sleep 2hrs. It sounds like J is getting a little OT with waking up at 30min or 1hr/1h 20 mark. Maybe try pulling PM nap a little earlier.
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Morning mamas! :)
Claire, that's a fabulous schedule for 2 naps! If I could get J on a similar one, it would work well with dd's school times in a few weeks. :)
We're having the same 'teeth' issues as the rest of you. He's getting another top one (it's almost thru) and definitely feeling his molars since he's constantly chewing back there. Poor babes! Thank goodness Hyland's teething tablets came back on the market! They are the best and work wonders!!
I agree with all of you in that 1pm is too late for that 2nd nap if he's only doing 30 in the morning. He's, actually, been sleeping (dare I say 'good') recently. However, it's not really consistent. It's probably either teething or a growth spurt. Like, yesterday, I woke him after 50 minutes in the AM and then he did a 2 hour PM nap. Same thing the day before. And, he 'seems' to be waking a little later than his usual 5:15am recently. However, not this morning. He was up pretty early for some reason. He's also been waking around 3am for a few days now. He fusses for a few minutes and then goes back to sleep. Weird.
This morning he was MEGA fussy and rubbing his eyes constantly. Nothing was making him happy. So, I put him down at 9:20 instead of 9:30. He went right to sleep. I plan to wake him at 10, so we can keep with the PM nap times. So, we'll have to see how the day goes. We might have to keep it at 1:00 since he would have napped 40 minutes. Actually, maybe not. I'm thinking of trying 12:45. We'll have to see how his mood is around then. :)
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Good luck Cyndie.
Well after two days of beautiful naps, Alyssa woke up at the 40min mark for todays nap. She was sitting in her crib crying. I can see her lower tooth about to cut, but then again, it can move down again. :'( I did the same A time as i did the other two days-5hrs and 20min. I probably should of put her down earlier today as I am not sure what her official wu time was. She began to stir at 6:30am, but cried out at 6:40am and nap was at 12pm.
this nap business is tough work. I was talking to my mom today and she said she never followed specific nap times for myself or my brothers. She just followed our cues and if we slept, we slept. ??? ??? ??? Here I am stressing every moment of the day.
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Great news Clairebear!
I hope your day went well Newmama12.
We had 6:15wake today!!!! Yay! However he was up at 11pm, I managed to settle him and he screamed at 3am and went right back to sleep. I didn't even go in. Teeth!!!
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Hi Lulunut,
Seems that the problem was that she's not showing sleepy signs anymore. So what I'm doing is, if she's not looking tired by noon (having woken at about 6.15/6.30am) I'm taking her into her room and holding her til she gets drowsy (which can take around 10mins). She's then going into her cot drowsy and, for the past few days, has gone back to doing a normal good nap of 2.5hours and waking happy.
I'm thinking they get to an age where everything is just too exciting to sleep and they don't show tired signs!!
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I'm thinking they get to an age where everything is just too exciting to sleep and they don't show tired signs!!
Agreed - the only clue we really get with DS is the bags under his eyes. No yawns, eye rubbing, nothing!
Ladies we are still doing 2 naps & O seems so much happier than on his 1 nap days. I daresay though that he is getting close to catching up on his OT now as he's been resisting going down for his PM nap after 3hrs A (after short 45min AM nap) & so I either have to go back to pushing out the AM nap but more slowly this time or I have to keep the AM nap at the same time but cut it back further (slowly) so it brings the PM nap a little earlier in the day as it is running bit too late.
Be back in a few days ladies - am busy getting ready for O's birtrhday party on Saturday.
Sabs - happy birthday Alyssa!!!!! Hope you/she had a nice day.
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Have a great Birthday party Clairbear. It can take a while to sort out the 2-1. It took us about 16 mts before he was consistently on 1 nap.
Yep I agree, no sleep signs. Granny's aren't as tough as Mom's when it comes to naps. When we are at home I hold him and rock him for a bit. Once he is out, he is so out!!!
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thanks for the birthday wishes.
A big happy birthday to your beautiful boy Claire.
So ladies, we have to do two naps today. I guess this was an Ut nap she had today. Woke up at 6:40am, put her down for her nap at 12pm and woke up 1:10pm. I wasn't able to extend today. Strange, b/c I was doing the same A for the last week.
Should I try another 10min from wu time?
We also have no sleep signs here.
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Happy Birthday to Alyssa and Oliver!!!
We're having a rough day. :( J's been crabby all day long. He took a 30 minute this morning. Woke on his own. Then we had an appt to go to mid morning, so we got home late from that. So, his PM nap, started late (about 12:50) and he barely slept 45 minutes before waking up. He's been up there fussing and rolling around for the past 20 minutes. Grrr! I guess I'll give him a few more minutes before throwin' in the towel and getting him up. Super early, like 6pm BT tonight, I'm thinking. Booo!
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Happy Birthday Alyssa & Oliver!
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Mystery of the lack of sleep is solved! Poor little man has a yucky cold. :( Go figure too - he was suppose to get his 1 year pics today. Boo! So bummed! I've had them scheduled for 7 months. Argh!
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poor thing. I hope he feels better soon. :-*
we are teething here. One tooth cut and I think another one is going to come. That means the 1yr old molars are next. :'( :'( :'( :'(
ladies, I have had to extend her nap more then I can think of. I think maybe there were a few times when she gave me a 2.5hour on her own. I really hope that she will learn to sleep for 2hours on her own. It has to be a routine thing.
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Ooo! I hate molars!!!
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Hi ladies. I've been off here for a while while we were away on holiday. I have to say that although I find this place to be a lifeline, it was kind of nice just going by his cues and previous sleep. We usually did 2 naps and I found we kind of had a pattern. The day we left he only took a 30 minute am nap. The next day he was pretty tired so took 2 decent length naps. i wasn't cutting the am nap too short as he was fairly easily taking the 2nd one with both adding to about 2 hrs or so. Gradually he took longer to get down in the pm (as he got better rested) and I had to cut that am nap. Things kind of went that way for the last 3 weeks or so.
Because I am going back to work in September he will be in daycare 4 days a week and we finally had to jump into hard core sleep training. DH is doing it all and started yesterday. So far so good, but today we only did 1 nap.
Our routine was
wu 5:50
Nap 12:15-1:45
Bt asleep by 6:45
I'm really not sure if he can sustain this but he skipped his pm nap the previous day and it makes it way easier to get him down independently (17 minutes last night, 12 for today's nap, 15 for BT tonight). Anyway, I guess we have to weigh the pros and cons of OT versus him being too UT to fall asleep and having lots of stamina to cry at sleep time. Right now we are going for the 1 nap and will see how we go.
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Cyndie - hope J is on the mend now?
Sabs - hope Alyssa's teeth cut soon. Don't think about the molars!!! Actually I must say O's molars cutting hasn't been nearly as bad as when his 4 top incisors cut. So there is hope! How did you go with cutting back Alyssa's AM A time to see if it was OT that was disturbing her nap? She has to be tired & not UT or surely she wouldn't go back to sleep with AP ??? Or do you think there is a prop issue going on?
Becky - sounds like a bit of time out was what you needed to see you right. good luck with the sleep training!
Ladies it was O's 1st birthday today - we had a party & it was a lovely day. He got a bit overstimulated though & didn't settle at all well for his PM nap. Our last few days have gone:
Thu:
Wake: 6am
Nap: 12.05 - 12.30 (in pushchair on way home from outing to health visitor clinic & playgroup)
Nap: 2.00 - 3.30 (he was shattered due to no AM nap & doing an OT nap in the pushchair)
BT: 7.00
Fri:
Wake: 5.50am
Nap: 9.30 - 10.15
Nap: 1.35 - 3.00 (woke 35mins into nap crying but resettled. assuming OT as took a fair while to settle to sleep)
BT: 7.00
Today:
Wake: 6.45am (yay!!)
Nap: 10.05 - 10.50
Nap: 2.30 - 4.00
BT: 7.00
We are still keeping with 2 naps for now. Our best day this week seems to be when he did his naps at 9.30 & 1.30 so I'm half tempted to try that again tomorrow. However I am finding that if we get a later WU & he's not quite ready to go down at or before 10am, then its a real struggle to fit in a 1.5hr PM nap and enough A time before BT (ideally 4hrs). Is this the point at which I need to cut the AM nap further ??? Or should keeping the naps consistent at say 9.30 & 1.30 hopefully do the trick ???
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Claire, I would stick to what you are doing for a while if it is working.
Becky, I think that is a great day for a one nap day.
I haven't cut her time too much. So I am not sure if it truly OT here. For some moms 1hr 10-20min naps mean OT and for others UT. For me I just don't know. She normally wakes around 6:30am, sometimes she goes quiet and am not sure if she goes back to sleep, so I have been counting her A time from 6:30am. This morning she woke up at 6:30am, went silent until 6:45am, so not sure if she fell back asleep. Was very cranky in the am, so I put her down at 11:50am and she woke up at 1pm. Settled her and woke again at 1:30pm. Tried to settle again until 2pm but she was in and out of sleep. I guess she wasn't that tired??? I don't know if I should fit in a CN.
One tooth did cut and I am sure another one is going to cut soon.
I am always extending her nap. I can never figure out what her A time is. Do I increase it or decrease it?
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Sabrina, I'm not sure about those 1hr20 naps either. We have had them off and on both on 1 and 2 nap days. For some reason sicne we've been on 1 nap this time, he's managed 1hr30 or more. This is third day with a fairly set nap at 12:15. He had woken early (5:30). His night wasn't great because he has another rotten cold (but luckily no bad crying). Anyway I think that was behind the early morning. But even with that we held him off. I heard him at the 1hr25 mark but he ended up sleeping about 1hr50. We are also on a set BT at about 6:30. I know i am jinxing myself but he is going down quite well, falling asleep quickly and I am hopeful we have settled on this new routine.
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Well, this might come back to nip me in the bud ;), but J is finally sleeping 'in'!! Today he gave me the best birthday present - slept till 6:45!!!!
He has been sick for the past 4 days (cold) and teething, so I don't know if it's that or a growth spurt or if the short AM/long PM is finally doing what it's suppose to. Either way...I'm not complaining! :)
Question, though....what do I do about the AM nap now? He had been doing 9:30-10 then PM nap 12:45ish/1 for 1.5-2 hours.
For example, yesterday his day went as follows:
6:30 WU
9:40-10:10 nap
1:10-3:00 nap
7:15 BT
6:45 WU this morning
Should I still keep a 3 hour A and do nap at 9:45-10:15? I don't want to push it out too much b/c I don't want the PM nap out too much. But...he probably can handle more than 3 hours A in the AM. I suppose I could push it out just a tad. Actually, it might work in my favor tonight since dh and I are going to dinner and the kids are going to my parents. We'll have to pick them up on the way back. A later PM nap might benefit him today.
I'm just curious what I do now that he's finally sleeping past 5am?! :)
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Woohoo!!!! So pushing out & cutting back that AM nap looks like it might have helped!!!!
IIWM - if he's sleeping in later & taking a good PM nap - do nothing!!! I hear you re: 3hrs A being fairly short in the AM, but don't forget he is only doing a short AM nap after it. If he did say a 4hr A time followed by a 30min nap, then he would probably be OT.
The signs he needs a tweak in routine are if he:
a) starts to resist going down for his AM or PM nap
b) his PM nap starts to be cut short; OR
c) he starts to wake earlier again.
This is exactly the point we are at now. DS has been resisting settling for his naps a bit & today we had quite a bit of crying. He woke at 6.30am & finally settled for his AM nap at 10.10am for 45mins. We usually wake him but today he woke himself. He then managed another 3h 40 A time & I finally got him down for his PM nap at 2.35pm. So he will be up around 4pm & so will only have 3hrs A to BT - which I am scared won't be enough! Aaarrrgggghhh!!! I think these are all surefire signs he is caught up on whatever OT was lurking & he is ready for a tweak - what do you think ladies?
I think whatever I do - it will be done more slowly this time, as we made too much of a big jump last time. And I'm hanging onto his AM nap for as long as I can, as long AM definitely wasn't for O. With all the PM nap refusal he just got way too OT. I was thinking I'd first cut his AM nap to 30mins so 10-10.30am & then maybe aim for a PM nap starting 1.15/1.30 ish - does that sound about right? Then aim for him to be up around 3pm & we can keep to a 7pm BT.
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Claire, I think you're 'right on' with the new schedule! I hope it works out for you guys!!
Thanks for the advice for the AM nap. I got him down a little late this morning and he was, so fussy. I was just trying to hold out a little longer, but maybe he woke earlier than I thought this morning?! I got him down at 9:45 and it took him about 10 minutes to settle. So, I'm not going to let him go more than 30, so we can keep a decent PM nap time, along with decent BT. We'll see how it goes! :)
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what a great birthday gift. :-* :-*
so glad Claire that things are going all for you. It is so hard, isn't it??
I can't figure out what i have to extend A's nap every day. I don't know if it is teeth, UT or OT! debating if I should try a shorter A time tomorrow morning.
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It is hard! I think maybe O could be saying 'mummy I'm ready for 1 nap now - why do you keep trying to make me go to sleep when I don't want to?!' I feel I ought to try cutting the nap back first though - rather than taking the plunge as it means a big jump in A times. Although we are having some later WU's now so it shouldn't be so hard to get to a decent nap time for a 1 nap day (at last!!!)
Sabs - I do wonder if A's nap is disturbed through OT. As surely she wouldn't resettle if she was UT ??? I'd have thought she would more likely be impossible to settle if she was rested enough? I know our LO's are different, but I found that with a 5hr A, O did 1h 45 naps, occasionally 2hrs but never more, yet one day I PD at 4h 45 & he slept almost 2.5hrs & then went on to do a 12hr night! So maybe pull it back just by 15mins more & see what happens? If the nap is a bust, at least you'll know.
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thanks Claire. Good points! I am going to try that tomorrow. She slept from 12:20-about 3pm. I had to settle her a few times of course. Normally she is asleep by 7:30pm, but tonight it was moved to 8pm. She is so UT ATM. I can hear her chatting through the monitor. I guess her nap needs to end at 2:30pm for a 7:30pm bt
Now that I think of it, she was pretty hyper before bed-playing with her sister. Oh Oh!! i hope she is not OS.
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Sabs - hope nap went ok today.
O's naps have been pretty awful today but I am keeping my cool & not getting worried about it! He was at his grandparents for the day & they got major nap resistance for both naps.
Wake: 6.30
Nap: 10.30 - 11.15 (I asked MIL to PD at 10am & he didn't settle til 10.30. She woke him from nap at 45mins)
Nap: 3.30 - 4.00 (I asked MIL to PD at 3.25hrs after WU from AM nap. She tried to PD for 2.30 but he was having none of it so she got him back up & tried again after a while. he finally settled at 3.30 & of course did an OT nap. Woke grumpy)
BT: 6.45 (PD at 6.35pm)
Siigh. So it looks like even the plan to cut his AM nap to 30mins might not work as he'd NEED to go down for it at 10am in order to have enough A time & a decent PM nap after it. I know they never settle as well while out as they do at home, but he's been fighting his AM nap at home too. And his PM nap too, even though he only did a 45min AM nap! So do you think its time to bite the bullet & just do 1 nap?
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Well, I knew it was going to come back and bite me when I decided to post how good J was sleeping. ::) Yesterday, he didn't have the greatest nap day and this morning super early WU. He woke at 4:30 am and kind of slept on/off till 5:15/5:30. Got him up at 6, as he was not having it anymore. Not sure where we went wrong.
Yesterday, his schedule was this:
6:45 WU
9:45-10:15 (woke on his own)
1:00 put him down, but he didn't fall asleep till closer to 1:15. Woke at 2:30. (woke on his own. only about 1.25 nap after 30 minute AM nap).
6:45 BT. Took longer to settle than normal.
5:15 WU
He took longer to fall asleep/settle for both naps and BT yesterday. Very odd for him as he's usually out in minutes. Not sure what all that means. Can anyone see where we went wrong yesterday? We've had such a good week and I'm not sure what's happened now. :-[ Maybe just a weird day and then overnight for him? I hope so b/c I was really really liking the 6:30 WUs!
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Hmmm..... sounds a bit like the day we had a couple of days ago!!!! O did a short AM nap & woke on his own & then took ages to settle for PM nap too.
I know 30min naps are usually OT, but I really wouldn't think that after waking at 6.45am & doing a 3hr A time J would be OT. That seems too unlikely don't you think? Do you think he could be getting to a point where he may be UT?
What if you eek out that AM nap a touch more towards 10am? & then aim for PM nap at 1.30pm? See if that helps.
Well ladies, we have had a more successful 2 nap day today b/c he is tired out after yesterday's bad naps. O was up at 5.50am today, napped 9.45-10.30am & then 2.05-3.35pm (I'll wake him in a few mins if he doesn't wake himself). But TBH I think I'll be back to nap resistance again tomorrow if he gives us a decent night tonight! If we do then I will definitely be cutting the AM nap back to make sure there's enough time to fit a decent PM nap in.
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That also seems unlikely to me. I think slightly UT. These los change so quickly. I have noticed that if A has a long night she can handle a longer am A.
Claire, I am so proud of you. You are doing a fantastic job.
I have reduced Alyssa's A time for the last three days and the first two days, I had to extend her nap at the 1hr and 20min mark. Naps on those days were 2-2.5hours. Then today, she napped for 1hr and 25min and didn't want to go back down. ??? ??? I have no idea what that meant. Going to stick with the A for a few more days. Anyhow, gave her a 10min CN at 5pm and that just threw her bt way off. She wasn't tired at all. She finally fell asleep at 7:45pm, from a 7:15bt. I don't think I may try another 2 nap day unless her am nap is 1hr.
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Clairbear-that is what I did. I just one day gave him one nap. He went for it! He slept about 2hrs. Then I did Early BT. I worked 1 and 2 nap days around what his day was like i.e. busy, wake time that day, how he slept at night etc. So I bounced back and forth for a bit until I just felt he was ready to do more and more days on one nap. Great job!
I am still getting lots of EW!. I have decided to push his BT to 8pm to hopefully get later wake. Today was 5:45. Which is better. I am hoping the naps will extend themselves after all this! Today was 1hr and 15 min nap. Not good enough!!
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today, she napped for 1hr and 25min and didn't want to go back down.
I guess that is maybe your answer - not tired enough. What do you think? Sorry that was my suggestion - I was just thinking about the fact she was waking mid nap needing resettling & that she DID go back to sleep maybe meaning she was well tired. Perhaps not. But at least you know eh? So as for the nap extending - I'm out of ideas?!
Ladies, did a 1 nap day yesterday. For some reason we got a later WU so I knew he wouldn't be ready for his nap at 10am. Day went
Wake: 7.20am (he did have a short wu at 5.45/6 to 6.15am though)
Nap: 12.00 - 2.40 ( stir/cry out at 40mins into nap, then was woken at 2h 15 by a passing car but back to sleep. Woke himself)
BT: 7.00 (wasn't sure if this was late enough given his WU today & the length of his nap, but 7pm is BT here so I stuck to it)
Today he woke briefly at 5.30 then back to sleep until 6.30am. Which is a great night's sleep, but means I won't be able to do a 12 midday nap as 5.5hrs would be a touch too much I reckon. So I'm going to aim for 11.15/30 & try a 1 nap day again, UNLESS he shows me he is really tired before that.
Lulunut - thanks for that - I suspect we will be alternating between the two a bit unless I can get on a roll now there is no OT involved. Did you stick with a set amount of A time or a set nap time when you did it? I don't know which is the better option?
ETA: Ladies, on 1 nap days do your LO's ever sort of stir/cry out at the 40min mark? O has done this the past 2 days & I don't know if it means anything. He's immediately going back to sleep so I don't know if its just him moving through sleep cycles or if its a hint of OT or even UT still. Any thoughts?
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Clairebear-I stuck with set times. That seemed to work for me after a bit! Mine used to stir at 45 min, I thought sleep cycle. That is when I think you stand there and shh them through it or just gently touch them in order to make sure they stay asleep. I recall doing that often!!
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Thanks! We did 1 nap again yest & it went:
Wake: 6.30
Nap: 11.30 - 1.30
BT: 6.45
Today Wake 6.10am - I guess maybe we needed to stick with our 7pm BT. I'm a little unsure when to do nap today as 4.75hrs A seems to give the best nap but if he did 2hrs with 4.75 or 5hrs A his nap will start at 11ish, end at 1ish & then we've 6hrs to go til BT. If I do EBT he will sleep max 11.5hrs (we've had 12hrs only once) so I will then end up in an early bet early wake situation which I really dont want to get into. But if I keep nap to 11.30 or 12 that's a really long A for him to do which I think will just cause OT. Its so difficult to know which way to go.
He's looking pretty tired already & its 10.30am here - we've missed the boat for a 2 nap day so I've got to hold him til 11 & hope for the best.
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looks good Claire.
Good luck for today.
I don't know what happened but here is the last two days(still extending her nap) I am hoping she will grow into her nap.
Thursday
wu 6:40
nap 12-1:25pm no nap extension
nap 5-5:10pm
sleep 7:45pm
yesterday
wake 7am(I had to wake her)
nap 12:15-2:10pm
bed 7:30pm but didn't fall asleep until 8pm(thinking OS)
woke up this morning at6:15am. We haven't had that wu in a long time.
don't know what to do today. was going to move nap to 11:45am.
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we have an OT lo here. Woke up 30min into her nap. Settled quickly! Should of reduced her A time this morning. I also, thing we are teething.
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Sabs - hope she did a decent nap after her 30min WU? What A time did she do? Are you just trying to keep her nap around 12 midday or after a set amount of A time?
Today we have done another 1 nap day:
Wake: 6.10
Nap: 11.05 - 1.20 (he woke crying after 1h 15 but settled back to sleep in a few mins. Woke himself after 2h 15 but was pretty grumpy)
BT: 7.00
I am a bit concerned he is building up some OT, esp with the WU during his nap - he's been blowing raspberries all day & was making 'mmmm mmmmm ooooh ooooh' sounds while playing (almost like a mantra) & so I do think he is pretty tired. We went out this afternoon & after just 2hrs A time he had 10mins or so in the pushchair where he went all quiet & still & had a glazed look in his eyes, but I don't think he actually went to sleep. If he did it was only for a matter of seconds or a minute at most. He then sprung back to life & played pretty happily til BT.
I'm also worried we pushed BT too late - what do you all think?
DH thinks he isn't ready for 1 nap yet & that we should go back to 2. Its so tricky to know what to do for the best. He certainly seemed better rested on 2 naps (I guess b/c his A times arent so long) but it was getting increasingly difficult to get him down for both of them. Maybe I should just have tried cutting back his AM nap to 30mins first. :-\ However I go back to work in 4 weeks & it would be so much easier for me & other caregivers if he were on 1 nap, AND I almost want it for the consistency it will give him. I also wonder if I just need to be prepared to accept a bit of OT while he adjusts?
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When he went down, did he fight you?Fingers crossed for a decent wu time tomorrow for you. Claire, you can always do one day one nap and the next day a two nap day. That is what I did with DD1. Then again, she was a textbook baby. You do have to be prepared for some OT as they need to adjust.
For the last two days we have been having some bt resistance. A is normally 5.5hours after her nap, but over the last two days she has been doing close to 6hours. 3-min are in her crib, blowing raspberries and making funny noises. I have a feeling that molars are causing all this.
Have you ladies experienced any of this at bt? I don't know if this is just OT causing it. She never fights bt. ??? I normally count A time from the moment she wakes up. it averages from 5-5.5hours. She has been giving me great wu times over the past month until this morning when it was just past 6am.
here is our day.
wu 6:15am got her out at 6:30am
nap 11:40-1:50pm (woke up at the 30min mark)
in bed at 7:20pm. Looked like she was going to fall asleep but then fussed, moaned, chatted and moaned again until 7:50pm That is a 6hr A time. :o :o :o
do you think teeth? I am giving her pain meds. I think I should try giving them a little earlier before bed.
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Clairbear-you maybe surprised to find that when you go back to work he will fall into the 1 nap routine at daycare or where ever he goes. They sometimes do better in other situations with other people. If they are kept really busy they will just do one nap naturally.
Sabs-I often get that with OS which is by that time OT too!! Sorry I am no help!!
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yup! OT and OS. Waking at 4:30am. Took me one hour to settle her back down.
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I just found this! now that we are 1...I guess we are a toddler!
we could really use your advise....
DS just turned 1 a few days ago. for the last 2-3 months he has been on a consistent routine of the following:
7:30 wake up
10:30ish nap (sometimes falling alsleep closer to 10:45) - sleeps 40-50 min ( I was waking)
2:45 up for nap - I let him sleep as long as he wants for this nap - usually about 1 hour 10 min. sometimes 1.5 hours.
BT between 7:30-8
has been STTN beautifully.
the last week he has multiple night wakings (although he has been able to resettle himself) usually 1 around 11:30ish, then again at 5:30 and he will wake on and off until 7:30. I do not believe this is related to teething.
I feel like I need to change naps...but he is getting sooo OT!! I was thinking to move back the am nap a little, and keep it nice and short. isn't it the AM nap that robs night time sleep?? what about that pm nap?? he usually doesn't sleep past 4 pm, so he is getting 3.5-4 hours before bed. he really can't last longer than that. in the morning, he was doing 3 hours, but was really ready for sleep at that point. he is so suseptable to being OT I am dreading that. yesterday I let him sleep as long as he wanted for both naps to catch up, but of course I only got a 1 hour nap both times .
any idea what is causing these wake ups?
I am 5 months pregnant with #2 - they will need to share a room. I am dreading that...
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Hi Emily - welcome to the 2-1! I wonder if he is in a bit of an UT/OT loop. Looks like his A times are increasing as he isn't settling to sleep until 10.45, and his PM nap is getting shorter. This could be leading to him being a little OT by BT leading to NW, OR the NW & EW could themselves be due to him needing some extra A. So it may be time to cut his AM nap back a little further - how about trying a 30min AM nap? You could maybe start it at 10.30 as you do now, or 10.45 if you feel he is consistently needing that extra 15mins A time. His 2nd A time after a 40-50min nap is around 3.5hrs right? Maybe try shortening that to 3hrs max & see what you get for your PM nap. He should ideally sleep a little longer, meaning he can handle the A to BT without getting OT. So something like:
Wake: 7:30
Nap: 10:45 - 11:15
Nap: 2:15 - 3:45/4pm
BT: 7:30 - 8
What do you think?
Ladies - we did 1 nap days for the last 3 days & last night DS woke crying at 10pm ish & then woke at 5.38am this morning, chattered til 5.55am, back to sleep til 6.30am when he was up for the day. I don't know why we are suddenly getting wakeups in the early morning again - any thoughts??? Its happened twice in the last 3 days. I don't mind so much as he is going back to sleep at least, but since our EW improved he hasn't been doing this until now. Could it be OT from his 1 nap days OT???
This morning he had huge big bags under his eyes & was constantly raspberry blowing, again. By 9.30am he looked really tired - started to lose coordination & kept burying his head into my leg, but he was playing happily. So I wasn't sure if he was quite tired enough or already past the point & OT. Decided there & then to do a 2 nap day:
NW: 5.38 - 5.55am (chattered for a while)
Wake: 6.30am
Nap: 9.55 - 10.30 (PD at 9.35am - after 10mins went quiet, then suddenly revved up again chatting & shouting & playing. He woke up himself after 35mins happy & chatty - UT ???)
Nap: 2.00 - 3.15 (PD at 1.30pm. chattered/fussed til 2pm. Woke after 40mins crying/fussing, back to sleep. Woke up himself after 1h 15)
BT: 7.00pm
So he did 3.5hrs A after a 35min nap today. And only slept 1.25hrs. To me that seems crazy. I'm not sure if he was just OT from him short napping this AM, but then if he was really all that shattered he'd have fallen asleep in the car on the way home from our outing, right???
Anyhow he played happily all afternoon, BT at usual time & he settled to sleep ok. But has just woken crying 1hr after he fell asleep. :-\
So.... I'm now feeling a bit lost as to whether O was OT this morning from doing 3x 1 nap days & the AM nap was OT, as was the PM nap, OR if he was actually UT for the AM nap & so this led to OT later in the day. I need to figure this out b/c I am not sure if he's just trying to tell us he wants to be on 1 nap for good. When we PD for his AM nap & he was shouting away, we both agreed that although he looked tired, it didn't sound like he was tired up there. So 3.5hrs AM A time is likely too short (unless of course I'm totally wrong & he was OT). However, I DO think 5hrs A is just too much for him at the moment & this may be why we are getting the crying after BT all of a sudden.
Trouble is, there's nowhere else to go is there? He will usually settle reasonably well after 4hrs A, but its not a long enough A time for us to do a 1 nap day. If we do long AM nap after 4hrs A he'll likely refuse a PM nap & be OT at BT (already tried & tested ::)). And there's not enough time in a 12hr day to do short AM/long PM with a 4hr 1st A time - is there ??? So it seems there really is no option but 1 nap left ??? What do you all think?
I think I am struggling with it b/c we still have a bit of an early start - 6.30am is typical for O these days (never thought I would say that LOL!!! ;)) . I think his ideal AM A time for a 1 nap day is 4.75hrs, as so far this has given the longest nap. So this would be nap starting at 11.15am. If he sleeps 2-2.5hrs, nap will finish 1.15 - 1.45pm. If we do a 1 nap day he tends to sleep 11.5hrs overnight (if we are lucky) so I'd need to keep BT at 7pm in order to preserve our 6.30am WU. But this makes his A time to BT 5.25-5.75hrs which I'm worried is a little too long - what do you think??? Should I be doing an earlier BT of say 6.30pm??? Am just worried about our WU creeping earlier again - its taken sooo long to get where we are, plus every time I look at O I see his huge bags under his eyes & can't help but feel he is utterly tired out. Maybe cause he's had so many months of no routine/ chopping & changing. I really need to give him some consistency now.
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Claire, I dont' know! I am still trying to figure that out myself. Alyssa does the same last A time as Oliver. Today I had her down in her crib for bed at 7:25pm and she didn't fall asleep until 7:40pm. That was an A of 5hrs and 50min. She never does this much! Thinking I may try earlier tomorrow. I have noticed that with a longer first A(lets say over 5hrs, closer to 5.5hrs) her last A is a little shorter. I guess b/c her nap always has to be extended. Today, her A in the morning was 5hrs and she gave me a 1hr and 50min nap(no extension) :o Then come bt, she chatted for a while. Could it be that she needs a longer last A time b/c of the shorter first A? I am blaming teeth.
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Clare-yes, I do believe we are on a loop from the night wakings. Things were do good the last few months!!! If I cut the am nap ( like when we have appointments) he will take a long pm nap - usually 3hours later. Do I know thus works.
My big question is: How late is too late for that pm nap to interfere with night sleep??? He can do 3.5 in the pm after a 1+ hr nap, occasionally 4 if we are out. I just don't think his a times are up for the 1 nap yet...
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I would say if you got a 2hr PM nap & your PM A time was less than 4hrs you'd probably be looking at either BT resistance or EW. But its so hard to say - its so individual to each LO & what they can handle.
Ladies we are back on 1 nap again today. O woke at 6.30am & we have a family meal this pm so he has no choice but 1 nap. Same for all this week as he has his induction at nursery every morning so no choice but 1 nap. However, he looks shattered & was clearly ready for bed by 10am today. Siigh. I guess a full week of 1 nap days may tell us if he really IS ready.
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way to go O.
I do agree with Claire, that with a 2hr nap and an A less then 4hrs, would probably lead to ew or bt resistance. Then again, it is all trial and error. These kids have a mind of there own.
So Alyssa woke up at 6:15am, got her back down until 7am. Put her down for her nap at 12:15pm then woke up 1hr and 20min into her nap. Was able to settle. I just don't understand why she is chatting up a storm before bt. Normally she goes down like a breeze with an A of 5.5hours.Going to try an earlier wind down. I think she just gets too OS by her sister. You have to see them play on my bed before bt. They laugh and giggle.
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Sabs - I typed a reply to you earlier & I think its got lost in cyber space Was just going to say cute new picture of the girls!!! Madi's hair is beautiful! Also great that you got such a good nap with no extending yesterday with a 5hr A time. I see she woke up mid-nap again today - do you think it could be that extra 15mins thats doing it?
Ladies we did 1 nap day today & I PD at 5hrs A time & O woke at 1.5hrs crying & would not resettle. I think this was OT as he looked pretty tired at 10am ish this morning. Siigh. BT was 6.30pm. I suspect we will have a 6am start tomorrow.
Trouble is, if we go back to 2 naps he will be fine for a few days & then it'll be back to nap struggles again when he gets caught up. Deep down, I know we need to do it but I don't feel he's quite ready. We're stuck somewhere in the middle where 2 naps is too much & 1 nap isn't enough.
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I think the 15mins might be doing that. She shows no tired signs so I have to go by the clock. Funny thing, tonight she went down like a breeze. ??? ??? ??? She is going stair crazy ATM-wanting to climb the stairs all the time.
Claire, don't worry if you have to fit in a two nap day here and there. When Alyssa gives me a nap that is only 1.5hours, I normally AP a 10min CN then do bt the same.
You never know, he may surprise you.
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WE haven't had an ew in a very long time. A woke up at 5:30am. thinking teeth. I should of medicated her then but just rocked her a bit and put her back down. Madison woke up at 6am and decided to storm open A's room door. This of course woke her up and she didn't go back to sleep.
Looks like it is going to be an early nap today. thinking 11:30am.
Here is yesterday
wake 7am
nap 12:15-2:30pm
bed and asleep at 7:45pm
do you think there wasn't enough A time to bed? She normally does 5.5hours.
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Sabs - I wouldn't have though 15mins less A time could make that much difference to her WU - especially given she is doing over 5hrs A time in the AM too. Maybe it was her teeth. Is it molars coming?
O had a brief cry at 10.50pm last night & then woke for the day at 6.15am. 11h 45 sleep. Phew! I honestly think he needed a 2 nap day today, he started rubbing his eyes at 9am & again in the car on the way to his grandparents, but when we got there he perked right up, so although my gut said 2 naps - I told MIL to do 1 nap & have him down for 11.15/30am. Last week she really struggled to get him down for 2 naps & TBH I struggled 2 days ago - so it seemed like the best option. I'm really hoping its a good one or he's gonna be exhausted by the end of the week!
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I think you made a good call there.
One tooth just cut. I could of sworn that I saw her molar really swollen. Need to take a peek.
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Hi everyone! Sorry, I haven't been around much but we've been so busy. I only have a sec to pop in here, but I will be back to read and respond to everyone. :)
J seems to be doing pretty well on the short AM/long PM nap. Most days we're getting a good 6-6:30am WU. So, that's fabulous! Yesterday, he did a 30 minute AM and then 45 minutes into his PM nap he got his legs stuck in the crib rails. :( First time he's done that. Nap was over after that. So, we had a long PM and did a 6:30 BT. I 'think' he was up around 6:15 this morning. Tried putting him down around 9:30 for the AM nap, but it took him a bit to settle. I don't think he was quit ready. He finally fell asleep around 9:50 or so. I don't want to push it out too late, so I'll probably wake him about 10:10 max. Then shoot for a 1:00-1:15 PM nap.
I wonder if I need to start pushing out the AM nap if he's waking around 6/6:30? He's not quit ready at 9:30. Should I go 10-10:30 or cut it to 20 minutes? I would like to keep with a 7pm-ish BT, so I don't want to have the PM nap too late. Plus, with dd in PM preschool, this is really messing up his nap schedule. I cannot have him to go 1 nap yet! And, he'll have to be up by 3pm to go pick her up from school. So, we're in a bit of a schedule tweak now.
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You can try that and see how he does.
So we had a little crib party from 4:30-6am. What was that about. She has a cold and I gave her pain meds, but she wouldn't fall back asleep right away. She would blow raspberries, chat and suck her blankie. I even tried rocking her on my shoulder. I just don't understand what is going on. I really hope this is a cold. It also could be a little developmental leap as she has been walking for a few weeks now and learning how do many things on her own.
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Cyndie - great news with the 6.30am WU's!!!!! Its such a relief isn't it?!!! We too found that O won't settle at 9.30am anymore & so we are doing 10am naps on 2 nap days. How long is he napping for in the PM now? I'd say it sounds like you need to nudge the nap out a little later - so you could maybe try 9.45 for a few days & then 10 if thats still too early for him. If your nap is 10-10.30 I'd say he'd be ready to sleep 1-1.30pm anyway so if he did a 1.5hr PM nap then that still fits with your school run. If he is sleeping longer for the PM nap then yes I'd say you will also need to cut the morning nap back a little more to 20 mins, as that will pull the PM nap a little earlier meaning there is time for a longer nap. IIWM I'd just probably try shifting it a little later first before capping it any further.
Sabs - could it be her teeth too? We do actually have a wonder week coming up very soon though - week 55 so that'll be next week for you right? That can affect sleep at night too. Here's the link:
http://www.thewonderweeks.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=61&Itemid=160
Ladies, we have done another couple of 1 nap days but they've not gone so well. Today he woke for the day at 6.15am, nap was 11.05 - 12.35 (1.5hrs). He was crying with tiredness when I PD & of course he woke up at 30mins crying, then again at 1.5hrs but wouldn't be resettled. Just cried. :'( I tried to AP a nap this afternoon with a long walk in the stroller but he was wide awake & chatty, then by 5pm he was shattered. BT was 6.30pm, asleep 6.45, so he did a 6h 15 A time after a 1.5hr nap. :o :o :o Not for lack of trying on my part. Does this sound like he is just getting OT to you & that maybe he isn't ready after all?
I think we should maybe aim more for something like what Cyndie is doing & do consistent nap at 10am & maybe cap at 30mins & hopefully this will make our PM nap less of a struggle, b/c with 45min AM nap it was getting difficult. He is at daycare settling in sessions the next 2 mornings though so no choice but 1 nap so I think come the weekend he will be one tired baba.
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Hay everyone! Sounds like some good news and some struggles!
I am interested in finding out what happens with your morning Clairbear after that crazy day you had! Hugs!
Sabs -- sorry to hear about the party. When I was young and single that may have been fun!
For the last week I have been getting 1-2 NW. I think teeth. It takes me about 30 min to get him back down and then the usual 5:30 am wake that I AP until I have to get to work! I am exhausted! I know he is OT and OS, I am sticking with the times but it doesn't seem to working itself out! I am so tired!
Hoping that this teeth thing will end soon!
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lulunut - What routine are you going on now? We got a 5.30am WU. Siigh. 10h45 night sleep compared to his now usual 11.5hrs. He has to be OT - he only had 12h15 total sleep yesterday & he's averaging 13.5-14 these days. Its going to put a real spanner in the works for today though, as we are at his new nursery from 9-11 & I have to leave him there for the last hour for the first time so he's not going to have a nap & will most definitely be tired out. We're looking at a min 6hr A time that he's got to do this morning.
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Claire, most days, it seems as if he is doing a 1.5 hour PM nap (with a 30 minute AM nap that I usually wake him from). Occasionally, he'll do 2 hours in the PM but that is more rare. Of course, he had a 5:30 WU this morning. Lovely. Actually, works a tad in our favor b/c we have to leave at 10am for dd's gymnastics. So, I'll put him down slightly earlier and get a 30 in for him. Yesterday he was so crabby. Did something like this:
6:15 WU
9:50-10:10 nap
1:00-2:15 nap
6:30 BT (he was soooo tired and crabby)
5:30 WU :(
I don't know if he's getting his molars or what, but he is crabby lately. They are swollen, so maybe they're getting ready. IDK. Not liking the 5:30 WUs again. But, if I can get him back to the 6:15-6:30ish WU time, then I'm going to push his nap slightly later and we'll see what we can work with. :)
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thanks for the link Claire. Our nights are also getting shorter again. Last night she had a difficult time falling asleep b/c of her cough. Finally fell asleep at 8:10pm and woke up at 4:40am, then again at 6am and again 6:15am. Going to try an earlier bt for a few more days.
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Cyndie - crabbiness probably is down to teeth. That said maybe he's not ready for his AM nap to be cut back any further just yet.
Well ladies nursery went better than expected. I knew there'd be no way he'd make it til 11.30/12 since he got up at 5.30am, so I took his sleeping bag & his lovey & asked them to put him down if he needed it while I wasnt there. He was clearly getting tired before I left so I was dreading that he might cry the whole time I was gone. To my huge relief, when I got back there he was fast asleep. Of course, I had to wake him up, so he only got 30mins sleep from 10.30-11.00 but at least it was something. Phew!
I think tomorrow I will do same & ask them to PD as soon as he's looking tired. TBH I'm actually swaying towards forgetting A times etc for a few days & just following him closely & letting him nap for as long as he wants, whenever he wants. I think I'm just putting him down b/c I expect he 'should' be tired, rather than b/c he actually IS tired. They said he was rubbing his eyes at nursery, but honestly he hardly ever does that at home. So maybe I always PD too early? This pm for eg I PD for 1.30 b/c I expected he'd do around 2.5hrs A after a 30min nap, esp since he already did 5hrs A time before it. Nope - chatting away in his cot & squealing at his teddies until 1.45. I'm a little scared we are going to get an UT nap.
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I would leave it as is, especially since nursery started. Good for him.
Cyndie, agree with Claire.
I put Alyssa down at 11:40am. I hope she catches up on some sleep. I just don't get why her ews are creeping in again. I blame teeth and OT.
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Well ladies - would you believe O did a 2h 15 min nap this PM, & he would have slept longer but it got to 4pm & I didn't dare let him stay asleep so I woke him up. He woke repeatedly throughout the nap, at 45mins, 1h 15 & 1h 45, but kept falling back asleep, so he really must've needed it. And he was still ready for bed at 7pm - went down with absolutely no protests. So lets hope that the 2h 45 day sleep he had today won't mean another short night for us tonight
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fingers crossed.
Alyssa was asleep by 7:30pm but refused her bottle. She napped on her own for 2hrs and 20min today.
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Nice nap, Oliver!
Ladies, we got another 5:15 WU this morning. No, no, no!! :( I don't know where we're going wrong. He's been doing so well for the last few weeks and I don't understand what's changing. Here's yesterday's schedule:
5:30 WU
9:15-9:45 nap (I woke him b/c we had to leave at 10)
12:45-2:15 nap (he woke)
6:50 in bed, asleep by 7
5:15 WU Boo!
He cannot go to one nap, yet! DD's school is going to be 12:30-3 and I still have to drive and pick her up. That is the perfect time for him to fit in a PM nap. What do I do today for his AM? Push thru to 9:30 even though he was up so early? Put him earlier and let him sleep? I don't know if he's OT. He had a day (I think 2 days ago) where he napped a total of 1.25 the whole day. Is that catching up with him? IDK!
Argh!!!
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Cyndie, I wonder if you move out that nap just a little bit, if that would help, thinking 9: 30am.
so ladies. Alyssa almost gave me a 12hour night last night with a 1hr and 50min nap. She was asleep by7pm and woke up at 6:45am. I put her down for her nap at 12pm but she woke up at 1:25pm, not wanting to go back down. I guess this was an UT nap??? I don't know. I probably should of stuck with a 5.5hour A time. Anyhow, I am not sure if she will make it to 7pm with a short nap like that. Thinking of fitting in a AP CN at 5pm for 10min and do a 7:30bt.
if you ladies see this before the day ends, let me know what you think.
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Not sure if this will be too late - but I'd say def try for CN or you will have to do EBT meaning early start tomorrow.
Ladies what a funny week we've had with a mix of 1 & 2 nap days:
Yesterday:
Wake: 6am
Nap: 12.15 - 2.35 (did 1 nap as when I went to collect him from daycare he hadn't napped & was wide awake. Woke repeatedly through nap though)
BT: 7.05pm
Today:
Wake: 6am
Nap: 10.30 - 10.55 (in car - woke himself)
Nap: 2.00 - 3.50 (we woke him as getting late)
BT: 7.10pm (straight to sleep - definitely tired)
We had been getting 11.5hr nights with 1 nap (mostly) so why only 11hrs (not that 11hrs is bad of course, but less than we usually get on 1 nap) ??? Is it b/c his day is too long - I've noticed they seem to be creeping longer towards 13hrs again - or is it the A times are all wrong or maybe too much day sleep ??? I'm thinking his A time to BT might be too short after such a long PM nap, but he is always tired for bed when we take him up & he never kicks up a fuss. Any thoughts?
O is also teething again - his bottom canines are coming in now ::)
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I can never figure out the length of day A requires, 12 or 13hr day. I think it depends on her nap and how well rested she is. I have to leave it up to her to decide to lengthen her night(I can't believe I just wrote that). I say anything 11hrs and beyond is wonderful Cyndie. I have noticed that A will do some wonderful nights followed by some 10.5hour nights. I don't know what they mean, but it could all be part of the transition. I too think too much day sleep b/c when A was doing 2.5hours of day sleep her nights were just a tad short of 11hrs. Then yesterday she did a nap or 1hr and 50min and gave me a 11hr and 45min night. I don't know Claire.
If he didn't fight bt then I wouldn't worry about the length of the A. Poor guy. Canines are not fun. Fx for a good night.
I did give her a 16min Cn. I went for a walk at 4:40pm and she fell asleep at 4:50pm in the stroller. Woke her up just after 5pm and put her down for bed at 7:30pm. She chatted a little so guess a little UT here and eventually fell asleep at 7:47pm.
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We got a 10h 50 night last night - up for the day at 6am after a brief WU at 5.40. So clearly not enough A time before BT. Its funny Sabs b/c when A is UT at BT she takes ages to settle to sleep, whereas O will always go to sleep pretty quickly but just wakes early the next day.
Anyhow we decided to watch him for tired cues today as he doesn't seem to be tired at 10am anymore, he rubbed his eyes once at 10.30, then again at 11 whilst I was giving him lunch, then I put him in bed at 11.15am, asleep just before 11.30am (5.5hrs A). Wow. This boy is amazing me with the A times he is doing now. Although I'm not sure if he is just so busy playing that he hasn't got time for sleep now IYKWIM? I sometimes think I have to put him down just b/c he's been up 5hrs already, b/c if I didn't he'd just carry on playing all day long!
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so true Claire. A can do 5.5h hours of A time in the am. I think they are too busy playing and discovering new things that they forget they are tired. Sigh.
She woke up at 6:45am this morning. She was very fussy at 11am so I fed her some lunch and that seemed to help her mood a little. 30min later, she just wanted to cuddle with me and her blankie. Brought her upstairs at 12pm and put her down. She fell asleep instantly. this was the same A time I used yesterday and it produced a short nap. Don't' know what I will get today? I probably should of just held her a bit more and waited for her to yawn a few times. She didn't yawn or rub her eyes at all.
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Its so hard to figure them out! Oliver rarely yawns or rubs his eyes either. Did she do a decent nap for you?
Our day went:
Wake: 6am
A = 5.5hrs
Nap: 11.30 - 1.45 (2h 15)
A = 4.75hrs
BT: 6.30
I am sooo hoping for an 11.5hr night from him tonight. Its his first full day at nursery (daycare) tomorrow & if he wakes at 5.30am & they don't put him down to nap until after lunch he will be soooo OT. EEk!
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Clairebear-our usual routine is
5:15-5:45W with AP until 6-6:30 (depends on hour early I have to got work)
12pm Nap usually 1.5 hrs (rarely will he sleep more)
7:45-8pm BT
I figured out that the NW was due to his allergy to grass. He was waking up itchy. We just discovered this!
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we got an 11hr night. I heard her at 6:45am. Put her down at 12pm but she didn't go down peacefully. She stood up and laughed at me. Oh boy, I hope we don't get an UT nap here. I don't know what to do, follow the clock or wait until she yawns a few times. In order for me to see her yawn, I have to walk with her for a good 20min. She can play all day if I let her.
I wonder if you can push out that nap a little more, like 12:15pm?
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lulunut - wow your LO does a long A in the PM! Do you think if you PD for his nap a touch later he might sleep a little longer? Might also encourage a later WU too.
Ladies we had a 5.30am WU today. Siigh. That was an 11hr night, after what I though had been a really good 1 nap day. Maybe we are just not destined to have 12hr nights in our house!
Oliver had his 1st day at nursery today & it didnt go so well. Had to pick him up at 3.30 as he was fussy/crying & had a high temperature.
Wake: 5.30am
Nap: 10.30 - 11.00 (I asked them to PD by 10am latest. He slept 30mins - woke himself - clearly would be OT after 5hrs A time)
Nap: 3.55 - 4.55 (numerous attempts to get him to nap at nursery failed. I PD as soon as we got home, asleep in minutes he was exhausted. I woke him after 1hr as I knew he'd be foul when I woke him after doing 5hr A after a 30min nap. He was awful - crying, clinging to me & clearly quite poorly. Still had fever & just sat on my knee leaning against me & dozed on & off. I just couldn't keep him awake he was so lethargic.
BT: 7.00 (straight to sleep)
I KNOW we are likely to get EW tomorrow (since he was pretty much asleep most of the time from 4pm onwards) but there was no way in the world I could make him stay awake when he was feeling so poorly. He's not one to sit still EVER & never comes to me for cuddles so he must've been out of sorts. Siigh.
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don't worry Claire. Nursery is a huge adjustment for him. It will take time! he may catch up tonight.
Is he teething or coming down with something?
Something must be in the air b/c A was very fussy today. Napped for 1hr and 50min, and I aimed for a bt just about 5.5hours later. She went down easily but woke up crying 30min later. Not sure if it is OT or pain related. I know wakings a few hours after put to bed means OT. I decided to give her advil but she got even more upset b/c I had to force it in her mouth. Sigh.
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It definitely sounds like there's something in the air - there's 2 other ladies on the BC with poorly LO's too. How was she overnight?
O slept til 6am with 2 brief WU's overnight & I didn't even have to go to him. Was quite amazed. He was really off-it last night - lethargic, fever, refusing to eat, he just dozed on me for a whole hour from 5-6pm & I think part of it was down to nursery, but he was definitely unwell too.
This morning he still has a raised temperature & looks shockingly exhausted, but was a lot lot perkier than yesterday. He was ready for his nap at 9.30am though so I put him down & am just letting him sleep. I'm not capping his nap at 45mins or less this morning as if he's poorly its just not fair. Obviously if he wakes himself then that's fine.
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Poor thing! Hugs
I herd her cry at 4am but she settled on her own. Then 6:30am she was crying again. I went to her she was laying down crying. It was a strange cry-like pain. I picked her up and rocked her for a while. I probably should of left her but I didn't want her to wake up Madi, which she did. She dozed for a few minutes on my shoulder and Madi came into her room to watch. Strange child I have. She wouldn't wait in my room. Finally after 10mins, Madi decided to open A's blinds. ::)
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How strange. Do you think she maybe woke with teething pain or something & then wanted some 'mummy comfort'??? Must be hard when you have 2 to deal with & 1 wakes up the other.
After his poorly day yesterday, Oliver slept 9.30-11am this morning (woke himself) & that was it for today. I left him in bed from 2.45 - 4pm to try for a nap & no joy. Then I took him for a drive from 4-5pm & still nothing, Absolutely wide awake & happy. So came home, did tea & he played happily right until BT at 6.30pm. Absolutely no fussing or crying or anything. And he's still awake in his cot at 6.50pm, after almost 8hrs A time. WTF is going on ???
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so we got a nap from 11:45-1:40pm. What time would you do bt? 7:10pm. That would make her day 12.5hours. Is that fine?
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Great nap! I would say so. How long are her days usually?
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they normally range 12.5-13hours. I like to stick with 13hours b/c she will most likely give me 11hr nights.
I had her asleep by 7:10pm. Hoping for an 11.5hr night.
Claire, is he spirited? I forget what temperament he is. I think he just hit his second wind. Alyssa has done that to me before. it is really hard to to two naps with these los now.
Any nws so far?
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Sabs - how did she fare overnight?
O always scored at touchy when he was younger but I think he may also have a spirited streak. He's so into everything! Agree re: the second wind. Well he woke crying quite a few times in the early part of the night, but self settled within 1-2mins. Slept from 7pm through to 6.15am so 11h 15. So a regular night's sleep. Not bad but I was kinda hoping he might do a bit longer to make up for what he missed yesterday PM.
We've actually done 1 nap today. He wasnt tired at 10am or 10.20am so I decided it was getting too late in the AM for a 2 nap day. Just after 10.30am he suddenly started to show tired signs, but to my mind it was already past the point of no return for 2 naps. He started to fuss & cry just after 11am so I PD & he was asleep at 11.15am (5hrs A). I'm not sure how to work a 2 nap routine when he's not ready to sleep until 10.30am - any ideas? If I did:
Wake: 6-6.30 (if I'm lucky)
Nap: 10 - 10.30
Nap: 1.30/2 - 3/3.30 (capped at 1.5hrs)
BT: 6.30/7pm
would that be enough A time to BT after a 1.5hr PM nap ??? Or am I better just going with 1 nap at 11.30am every day? I really don't know if I should hang in there a while longer with the 2 naps & try to consistently put him down at the same times every day as we are jumping around all over the place again like we used to & it all feels like his routines gone all out of control. Like we have a 2 nap day, then a 1 nap day with AM A time of 5hrs, the next day he does 6hrs, the day after we're back to a 2 nap day but then he refuses the PM nap. We're kind of in a mess again. :-\
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Claire, that is part of the transition. Some days will be two nap days and others will be one nap days. I know with A, after a one our nap she can easily do 4hours of A time. 1.5hour nap she can do 5 hrs.
I can never understand why some nights they can add night sleep and other nights not.
On a two nap day, can you perhaps cap the am nap to 20mins so he will be extra tired and go down earlier?
I don't know what happened last night but from 11:30-12:30am we had a nw. She did not want to go in her crib, she would hold onto to me for dear life.
Do long nws mean pain?
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Long NW's where awake, chatty & playing would be UT. But if she was upset & clingy I'd say probably pain or OT. But you got a good nap yesterday didnt you, so I'd think OT would be unlikely.
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Hi ladies! I am back for more suggestions/advice. We cannot kick this EW up again. :( Today was before 5am. :o That is just absurd! LOL! Yesterday, he had a great nap day, so I'm not sure where we went wrong and what is going on?
5:30 WU
9:45-10:15 nap (I woke him)
1:05-2:50 nap (woke on his own)
7:00 BT
4:45 WU :(
Should I push BT out later? He seems very capable of 4 hours A after a 2 hour nap. Yet, I don't want to push it too much and have an OT situation (which we may have now?? IDK). Ideally, I know he's really going for that 1 nap, but it's so hard with dd's preschool schedule to do that. It's also hard to keep pushing that AM nap out when he's up so dang early! He is super crabby today and chewing on his finger way in the back of his mouth. Teething molars, perhaps?! There is no way I'm going to be able to keep him up (happily) until 9:30/9:45 for a nap this morning. I'm thinking of putting him down around 8:45/9 and letting him do 45, max 1 hour. He seems so tired. Oh and he was up around 3am too, but went back to sleep. ::)
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Cyndie, I would let him catch up a little. I also would push out bt. After a2 hour pm nap I know A at that age could easily do 4.5hours. I would push out 15min every three days and see if that gets you wu time moved a little later.
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need quick advice again.
after last nights nw, I had to wake Alyssa at 7am. she seemed tired at 11:30am,so I decided to put her down at 12pm. Went down like a breeze but woke up at 1:30pm. I don't think she will last until 7pm with a 1.5hour nap. I tried to extend but she kept pointing at the door. Should I AP a cn for 10min in the stroller at 5pm?
I should of used her usual A time of 5.5hours in the am.
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I am sorry ladies that things aren't well with your LO's. I hope everything gets better for you all soon.
I have thought about putting him to bed later for nap. This is first week of pre-school in AM and granny in PM so I haven't got a plan yet. Yesterday he fell asleep on the way home in the afternoon in the car. Too much excitement!!
I haven't done PD in a while with him. It didn't work before he would just get more and more mad and scream his head off until he was totally awake. I just went to AP and for the last while I had hoped that the times would work themselves out. So far that hasn't been working.
Last night was 4:15 wake. I usually AP him which can sometimes take about 30-40 min until he is fully settled. He dreams a lot. I decided this morning that the 40 min of me being awake wasn't worth it since I had to get up at 6am. So I just slept with him. He loves this! With new baby coming I don't know how much longer I can be his soother!!
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Cyndie - I think if he is teething molars it could be that was what woke him early, but it could also be that he needs either more A or a little less daytime sleep than 2h 15. So I'd probably hang in there for a few days just to see if things get back on track in which case you put it down to teething. If they don't, then agree with Sabs he may need a bit more A before BT. So there are a couple of things you could do:
1) keep naps as they are but do a later BT (which gives him the extra A & should help you get a later WU), OR
2) cap the AM nap a little shorter, maybe try 20 mins. This will bring the PM nap a little earlier & so give you more A time to BT, meaning you can keep BT where it is at 7pm.
3) cap the PM nap at 1.5hrs max so he is doing no more than 2hrs day sleep & so it also gives you the extra A to BT whilst keeping BT the same (though TBH I think if you are already capping his AM nap its a bit sucky to have to cap the PM nap too so this is my least preferred option)
Sabs - not sure you'll get this in time but if you can get a CN I would do it but for no more than 10mins. If you can, you are a lucky lady!!!
Lulunut - congrats on your Pg!!!! Hope your EW sort themselves soon.
Ladies our day went:
Wake: 6.15 (11h 15 sleep)
Nap: 11.15 - 1.40 (2h 25 sleep - woke at 40mins & 1h 10 but self settled)
BT: 6.50 (straight to sleep)
He amazed me by doing 1 nap today, I though after yesterday it'd be 2 naps for sure. But TBH even though he slept almost 2.5hrs he was shattered all afternoon & rather fussy & clingy - not himself at all. He sounds really hoarse & is getting a cough so I think he must still be feeling poorly. :(
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Thanks for the advice/support ladies! Yesterday was dd's first day at preschool, so we had our first experience with how nap(s) were going to work. Ugh. Not going so well. First off, he was up super early. I let him nap from 9-9:45am. Took her to school and was home at 1 for him to nap. He fell right asleep and I had to wake him at 2:40 to go pick her up. Unfortunately, 2:40 is going to be the latest he can nap on M,W,F due to me having to pick her up. :( I'm not sure what to do with the morning. If I push it out later, I have to cap it at 20 minutes. I think I can get back from dropping her off around 12:45, so I can put him down for that PM nap then. But, still have to wake him at 2:40. That just seems so early! However, if he's only napping 20 minutes in the AM and waking at 6am or earlier, this 'could' potentially work. At least for a little while. IDK though. WWYD?!
Also, if I try to push the one nap on him, I'd imagine that I could do something like 10-11:30/12 (assuming he'll even go that long), but then we'll have one super long afternoon. I don't like that option very much. At least not yet.
Claire, I think I'm leaning towards your option 2. I think that, for now, will probably make the most sense. It'll give him a longer PM, even if BT is still around 7/7:15. As long as I can get him to do about 2 hours, we might be ok for a bit. Although, yesterday afternoon he was a BEAST. He was so tired, I had him in bed at 6:30 and he slept till about 5:50 this morning. The molars are definitely a huge part of the problem now.
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I can only imagine how hard it is to manage preschool around nap time.
So we got a 1hr and 40min nap with an A of 5hrs and 10min. She had another nw last night at 4am. Gave her meds, rocked her and she fell asleep on my shoulder. The moment I put her down, she woke up fussing. I kissed her and left. She fussed for a few minutes then went back to sleep. Woke up at 7:10am.
her nap would of been at 12:30, meaning bt would be later. God I hate this.
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Well, today's plan has backfired. Ugh! I seriously am hating PM preschool!
5:50 WU (after a 7:20 BT)
9:15-9:45 nap (I woke him)
1:00-2:00 nap (he woke and is not going back to sleep :()
UGH, UGH, UGH!! I cannot do this for the entire school yearl! At least it's only 3 days a week, but, UGH, again!! LOL! Sorry, I'm just so frustrated. I think he's OT. Short overnight, short AM nap (even though I always wake him after 30).
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(((hugs))) Cyndie - it must be so hard trying to fit his naps round school runs.
Maybe the later BT last night was a tad too much for him? Or maybe a 3h 15 A time too much after a 30min nap ??? (having said that we did 30min AM nap followed by 3hr A time today & DS napped for 40mins :P).
I would be wary of letting that AM nap creep its way earlier again though, or you might find your WU starting to get even earlier. I am convinced this is what helped us with our EW & you with yours. You might just have to ride things out for a while if he is extra sleepy with teething though.
If its any consolation our naps are in a mess too. DS is poorly with cold & chesty cough & he is seeming rather tired in the AM & is dead to the world when I go to wake him but then he is resisting his PM naps. I feel like I havent worked out the right A times for him.
Yesterday went:
Wake: 6.15 (11h 15 night sleep)
Nap: 9.45 - 10:30 (let him have 45mins since extra sleepy & poorly - he was really crabby when I woke him)
Nap: 2.30 - 4.00 (I put down at 3.5hrs A time but he did 4hrs - after a 45min nap :o) woke at 40mins crying then back to sleep. Woke himself at 1.5hrs)
BT: 7.30 (PD at 7pm but chattered for ages - my guess is UT due to PM nap being too late in day)
Today:
Wake: 6.25 (11h night sleep)
Nap: 10.00 - 10.30 (took 20mins to settle. I woke him - he was reasonably happy)
Nap: 1.30 - 2.10 (I aimed for 3hrs A after a 30min nap but TBH think he was UT. Bouncing in bed, chatting, then woke himself, happy after 40mins)
BT: 6.50 (think should have done earlier BT but O rarely tacks on lost sleep at night so will usually just mean earlier WU)
BT: 7.30
I'm finding he needs to go back to a 2 nap day after a few 1 nap days, but any more than 1 & it all goes wrong again. I'm not sure if I just need to allow a longer A to his PM nap, but then that will leave us with not enough A to BT. I don't really want to lengthen his day if I can avoid it as he then sleeps a shorter night. So my only options are to assume today was down to his cold & try again tomorrow but maybe do PM nap 15mins later, OR cap the AM nap even shorter, OR do 1 nap. And Stick To It so he gets used to it. What do you think ladies ???
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Thanks Claire! He's been having odd nw's too. Nothing that I've had to go into his room for but he's been waking up around 3am and/or 4 and then again before 6am for the day. :-[ That's gotta be those dan molars!
I was thinking this morning, after I put him down, that I should have put him later than 9:15. I was, initially, worried that having him sleep much past 10 would 'mess up' the PM nap (since we're on such constraints). But...I think if I did 9:30-10 or even 9:45-10:15 (depending on his WU) he will be more ready for the 12:45/1:00-2:40 PM nap. Assuming that everything goes as planned, that still puts us at 2.25-2.50 hours of naps a day. Might be a bit much sooner than later. So, yeah, it's tough to try and work all this out! :-\
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Claire, what i did was aimed for a one nap day with a decent wake up time. if she didn't nap well, I would fit in a CN.
What you are doing is fine. You can gradually increase the one nap days so he can get used to it. Other then that, your days look fab.
I hop he feels better soon.
Cyndie, what is his A time right now? What is the longest he can do?
Alyssa gave me a 11.5hour night last night. I think it was b/c she napped for 1hr and 40min. Today she napped for 1hr and 50min so I aimed for bt 5.5hours later and she just fought me a little. She wanted me to rock and cuddle her. It must be some sA she is going through. She didn't even yawn at all during wd. She kept playing. This has to be a spirited thing.
oh great! I can hear her fuss right now. I have no idea what her problem is. She has to be tired. That would give her a whopping 6hr A time. :'(
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Sounds like everyone is having some rough times. Hugs for everyone. I too can't imagine working naps around school. I am sure I will experience it when LO3 comes along! Yikes!
Claire-how did you get rid of the EW's?
We had 5am with AP until 5:30. When we went to the store (9am)he fell asleep in the car which became a challenge to push the cart and my DD in it. I had to hold him while I shopped! That was interesting!! He didn't budge!
12:30 nap for 1.5 hours
7:30BT
Good news...DD went to sleep on her own! Good sign for the future!!
I agree with Sabs CLaire. With EW do 2 naps. I also found that when my LO's were sick. I just let them sleep whenever but no later than 4pm. I didn't want to mess up BT.
Sabs- I hope the night turned out ok for you.
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Sabs, oddly his A times aren't very long. After WU in the morning, he's ready for a nap after 3 hours A. By 2.5 hours of A he is fussing. I try and hold have him do 3.5, with an occasional 4 (but rare). This nap, I usually only let him sleep 30 minutes. He can usually go a good 2.5-3 hours. He gets crabby, eats and then recharged after lunch. :) Typically, he gets about 3 hours A between the AM and PM nap. If he takes a 2 hour PM nap (which is not always the case) he can easily do a 4 hour afternoon. That's why, yesterday, when he did almost a 2 hour nap, I had him do about 4.15 A. He was definitely ready for bed after that and fell right asleep.
This is what he's been doing for awhile now....
5:15-6:15 WU anytime in there (lately, it's been on the earlier end)
9:30-10 nap (I wake him)
1:00-2:30/3 (he wakes on his own)
6:30-7 BT (depending on length of the PM nap)
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Cyndie - I think if he naps more than 2.5hrs in the day now you are probably going to get a shorter night. I find the same, in order to get a decent night from O on a 2 nap day he needs 2.25hrs max. On a 1 nap day he can probably sleep a touch more in the day & still give a good night.
There are also lots of babies who still do shorter A times at your LO's age - he's 13-14 months now right ??? My friend's LO is 15 months, he wakes at 7am & still naps at 9.30am for about 30mins & then again at 2.30 for 1-1.5hrs, BT at 7pm. She's never done BW but has just stuck with the same nap times for months & he wakes up when he is ready, she never ever has to wake him. As he has gotten older he still goes to sleep at naptime no problem but his naps have just shortened naturally, as he started to need more A. It just goes to show that short AM A times can work for some!
I think if J is starting to wake earlier again he is trying to tell you he needs more A somewhere. Since your PM nap is limited to a set time by school runs, I'd be inclined to perhaps cut that AM nap down to 15/20mins. You might also need to push it a touch later, so it is from say 10-10.15am (obviously do this gradually though) as if you did 9.45-10am he might struggle to last all the way to 1pm.
What's the latest he can sleep until before you would have to wake him to collect DD from preschool? If he can sleep until 3pm the other option would be to gradually shift that AM nap later so it runs from 10-10.30 & then shoot for a 1.30-3pm nap. That way you restrict his day sleep to 2hrs meaning he isn't getting too much, it gives him a good 4hr A time to BT after that PM nap & should also hopefully encourage him to wake later b/c his AM nap is later. How about that ???
Sabs - thanks. Alyssa does sound like a tricky one! We too get longer nights if he short naps during the day - I guess they have to make up for it somewhere. Try not to worry too much about the 6hr A. We had 8hrs the other day & he slept OK overnight & we got back on track within a day.
lulunut - we sorted the EW by pushing out the AM nap. It was brutal, but basically I had to stop letting him nap before 9.30am at the earliest. He got very very tired & miserable for a few weeks & I had to avoid going in the pushchair or car around 8/9am in the morning for a while 9as he would just fall asleep) but it has really worked. I also kept the AM nap short to stop him using it as an extension of night sleep, & then allowed a longer PM nap.
Ladies - we did another 2 nap day today.
Wake: 6.30-6.50am (not exactly sure when. So 11h 40-12h sleep - but only due to rubbish naps yesterday)
Nap: 10.00 - 10.30 (STS in 2 mins flat - he was shattered)
Nap: 2.00 - 3.30 (he woke at 40mins & 1h 15 but resettled. Think slightly OT. I woke him from nap.)
BT: 7.00
I'm quite pleased with how today went & hope he does a good night tonight. Still a little concerned 3.5hrs A isn't enough at the end of the day though.
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Claire has provided you with some great suggestions.
I do think you need to either slightly push that nap out or cut it to 20min, and move up his pm nap. Hopefully, the longer A to bt will push out that wu time. your other option is to try the long am/short pm nap. Los tend to show tired cues at there usual A times. You can always try pushing out his last A out by 10min for 4days and see if that moves your wu time later. We need to figure out where he wants his longer A.
ladies, I hope your night goes well.
Claire, you should be so proud of yourself. You have come far along with these EWs.
Alyssa gave me an 11hr night. She was very fussy today. ??? I put her down for her nap at 12:15pm (wu time was around 7am) and she woke up at 1pm crying. Settled quickly and woke again at 2pm. Got another 5mins of sleep on my shoulder until my DD1 came into her room. Thinking she was either in pain or slightly Ot here as she couldn't transition sleep cycles. I am always on pins and needles when it comes to her sleep. Anyhow, in bed at 7:35pm and fell asleep at 7:45pm. last A was 5hrs and 35min. I am shocked at her A times. I just looked at Madi's EASY and at her age she was doing 4hrs. ::)
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I am afraid that it may be one of those nights. she just started fussing 30mins into her night sleep. sigh
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Thanks Claire. That's how I got him on one nap before. It got better after a bit and then...I don't know what happened. He went back on EW again!!
I am sorry Sabs, I hope it's just a small wake! Good sleep vibes for you!
Today he was up early so I decided to bring back the 2 naps. URGH! I let him sleep at 9:15 for 30 min. Then put him down at 1. He slept for almost 2 hours! A good sign. I aimed for 7:30BT but he went at 8pm. We shall see if the EW work out tomorrow morning!!!
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off topic here. Lulunt, I just noticed that you are expecting again. Congrats. :-* :-*
Definitely go back to two naps. So sorry hun.
She did go back to sleep on her own and woke up at 6:50am. Put her down for her nap at 12:10pm. Trying to figure out what A time she likes in the am. Don't know what kind of nap we will get. It looks like she needs a good 5.5hours to give me a nap over two hours but then that just cuts into her nights. sigh
I hope everyone's having good day.
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Thinking she was either in pain or slightly Ot here as she couldn't transition sleep cycles. I am always on pins and needles when it comes to her sleep.
IKWYM about pins & needles! I am having this exact same thing happen ATM - he keeps waking & crying mid nap. Always after 40mins & then usually again after 1h 15, & then he will go on to sleep 2hrs+ if I leave him. So I am thinking OT. But who knows ???
Lulunut - sounds like a good idea to try a couple of 2 nap days. Sounds like he has had a good catch up day today. Maybe once he's caught up a little more you will be able to go back to 1 nap again.
Wait for this ladies...... today Oliver woke up at 7.15am :o :o ;D He did wake at 2.15am coughing for around 30mins, but didnt cry/fuss/chat or anything, so I'm sure this was purely down to his cough/cold rather than being an UT NW.
We did 2 naps again today, trying to be consistent with him & hoping to find A times that work for him:
Wake: 7.15
Nap: 10.05 - 10.35 (woke him from nap)
Nap: 2.05 - 3.35 (woke crying at 40mins but back to sleep. Had to wake him from nap to keep BT at 7pm)
BT: 7.05
TBH I don't think he was *quite* ready for his AM nap (since the A time was pretty short but we were trying to be consistent with the 10am nap). He settled ok anyway. For PM nap I actually think he may have been OT, as 3.5hr A time after a 30min nap is pretty long, right? We increased it a couple of days ago I got a 40min nap with a 3hr A time, but I am actually thinking that may have been down to his cold rather than him being UT. Esp now, since he has woken at the 40min mark the last 2 days but resettled & gone on to sleep 1.5hrs.
I am sure this won't last for long, b/c the better rested he becomes, the more difficult it will be to settle him for his AM nap. I am also thinking nursery may struggle to get him down tomorrow. But he is so much better rested with 2 naps & so much happier, so I want to keep them for as long as I can. Sometimes I think I am just prolonging the agony by hanging onto the morning nap, but in a way I'd rather he dropped the AM nap of his own accord, rather than me forcing him to make the jump before he is actually ready.
Here's hoping for a decent night for everyone.xx
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Great wu time, Claire. ;D Keep doing what you are doing. You are doing a great job.
Of course I had to settle A for her nap today, but instead of it being at the 1hr and 20min mark, it was at the 1.5hour mark. I had to hold her sleep as she refused to go back in her crib. I let her sleep for 2hrs(12:15-2:15pm) put her down for bed at 7:35pm and she chatted for 10min.
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Great news for both of you!!!
Thanks on the expecting a new baby!! I am nervous about handling 3 under 3 but excited to complete my family!
Last night was a nut show! He was up at 10:30 for a quick scream. I did one PD and he went back to sleep. He was up again at 3:45. I am going to stop the AP. I think he is getting into the habit and I am not helping him learn to fall asleep on his own. I also think that he is old enough to understand a bit more. He chatted for 30 min and cried for 45. I maintained the PD and he finally went to sleep on his own with some back rubbing. He was up 10 min later. Got him PD after another 10 min. Then he was up at 6:30. By then I was exhausted so I brought him into my bed and he slept until 7am when I heard DD knocking on her door wanting out!
When I went to get her she had pood and it was everywhere, sheets, pillow, toys! Awful mess! Off to the tub for both.
Nap at 12:30 for both. He woke after an hour and I AP him for another 40 min. I was too tired to fight from that morning!!!
Slight AP tonight for about 15 min and then 2 PD and back rub and he was out on his own! I am off to sleep to prepare for another NW!!!!
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Thank you for the advice, Claire and Sabs! Yes, he's 13.5 months now! Claire, I absolutely agree that he cannot get more than 2.25 hours during the day. Maybe even no more than 2. I'm not sure, but will have to play around with it a bit. He'll probably end up with closer to 2 hours/day of naps on MWF when dd has school b/c I have to wake him up during his PM nap. I have to leave the house no later than 2:50 since it takes about 10 minutes to get to her school (she's done at 3). So, the absolute latest he can sleep is 2:45. On friday, I made it back home by 12:45 and rushed him right up to bed. He didn't fall asleep quite as quickly as I had hoped and then woke after an hour. Not such a good nap that day. I'm hoping that tomorrow will work a tad better. I'm going to push nap out (no matter when he wakes in the morning, right?!) a bit later. Actually, I did this today b/c he, oddly, slept till 6:30. Yipee! He did a 9:45-10:15 nap, then 1:10-2:50. So, just over 2 hours total today. We'll see when WU is tomorrow morning.
I'm hoping that by cutting the AM shorter and having it be later will help him with a slightly earlier PM nap (at least on MWF). I am still going to stick with a 7pm BT unless the PM nap is too short. Ideally, I was hoping to get closer to a 7:30 BT, but I'm not sure we'll be able to do that on the days when I have to wake him from the PM nap. He's just gonna have some wonky days during the week until we can get it worked out. LOL!
Also, Claire....YIPPEE on the later WU!! Awesome!
Congrats on baby #3, Lulunut!!! I have a friend who is due with her 3rd under 3. You guys are brave! ;)
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just having a moment and need to rest my head here. Alyssa woke up at 6:50am( i think). That is when I heard her. Anyhow, put her down at 12:15pm and just had to settle her at 12:50pm. OT for sure. Sigh :'(
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had to resettle again at 1:30pm and had to let her sleep on my shoulder. Going to try pain meds tomorrow. '
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Cyndie - good plan. And YAY for the later wakeup too!!!
Sabs - Oh bless. I would give those pain meds a go for sure.
Oliver was at nursery today & he slept 40mins the whole day. :o :o :-\ They said he was rubbing his eyes around 10am so they tried to put him down in the baby room which is light & full of other babies playing (not conducive to a good sleeping environment in my book ::)). Of course he refused. He eventually settled at 11.15am in the blacked out toddler nursery (why they don't have this for the babies too is beyond me!) & woke at 11.55am. What are all these 40min naps/WU's about ??? They tried for a PM nap but he refused again. Siigh. :( So I had to put him down at 6.30pm tonight. I wish I didn't have to send him to daycare. :(
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Thanks Newmama! Yes, I don't know if brave is the right word, maybe crazy is better!!!LOL!
Oh Sabs! I am sorry your LO isn't doing well. Hugs!!
Last night was better here, 3:15 wake one PD he went down complained a bit but settled. I had to stay for a bit because he kept waking and checking to see if I was still there! After about 30 min I was able to leave. DD however woke up coughing like crazy. So I held her up in the chair so she could breathe better until 6am. DS was up at 6:15! That is progress for him. Today's nap he woke after an hour. One PD and he has now been down for 2 hours! Yay!
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What a day. >:(
So...J woke up sometime around 5am, but went back to sleep till about 6:15. Not too shabby. He seemed really tired around 9ish, but I held him out till 9:45. I woke him at 10:15. Figured he'd be ready for the PM nap by 12:45 when I got back from dropping dd off. Well, he would not fall asleep! ??? Finally, he did a little after 1 and woke 30 minutes later. :o :o No way he was UT with barely a 30 minute nap in the morning. So, yeah...he slept a total of 60 minutes today. Got him in bed for the night at 6:30 and we'll see what the morning brings. To add into this whole big mess, dd starts soccer at 10am tomorrow. Right in the middle of the AM nap. GRRRRR! In a way, I'm hoping he'll wake at 5am, so he'll want to nap from 9-9:30. Then we'll be ok. Otherwise, if he sleeps in, I think I'm going to leave early and bring him to my parents. Then he can play for a few minutes and take a 30 minute CN there. My only other option is to not have him nap until closer to 11/11:30, but I don't know if that'll work at all. I think he'll fall asleep in the car on the way home.
If these PM naps keep becoming a problem, I'm going to have no choice but to either do a long AM/short PM (like around 3:15 when we get back from picking dd up or try and go straight to 1 nap sometime mid-late morning. IDK.
What a disaster this is. If only we could have gotten into the AM preschool class. :(
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Cyndie, you have to do what is best for your family. I can only imagine how difficult it is to fit naps around a school run.
Lulunut, i hope you got some rest last night. Great job with the nap extension.
Claire, do you think he is still adjusting to nursery? I mean, this must be a huge change for him.
Alyssa was off this afternoon. Clingy and fussy. She wanted to go down early so I did at 7:20pm and she went out pretty quickly.
I just don't understand why for the last two days, the last part of her nap, she needs my shoulder. I pick her up and she instantly falls asleep on me. The moment I put her down she wakes, stands up and wants me to pick her up. Could it just be a comfort thing?
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Oh no Cyndie! Sounds like maybe he was a tad UT & so he fought settling to sleep & by the time he eventually settled, he was OT. We've had that happen a few times with Oliver. Maybe see how he fares over the next few days, if it carries on you may need to just increase his A time before that nap a touch. O is doing at least 3hrs after a 30min nap now (today almost 4 :o :o :o).
Just reading the bit about maybe doing long AM/short PM, maybe that would work better for you to fit around school runs ??? And that way you can work on gradually pushing the AM nap later & later, which stands you in good stead then for switching to 1 nap. I must say, it really did help us with getting rid of our EW, but I found if I let him sleep more than 1.5hrs I would struggle to get a PM nap out of him at all. I think if you were going to try jumping straight to 1 nap, it might be difficult if you are still getting the EW as he is going to get VERY OT. So doing long AM/short PM might be a stepping stone to help you get there IYSWIM?
Could it just be a comfort thing?
Sounds like it could be. :-\ Is there any chance she is becoming dependent on you to help her go back to sleep ???
I think it will take O quite a while to adjust to nursery & I just have to accept that he's not going to sleep as well there as he does at home. I think they will also soon realise that they need to put him in the blacked out room to have any chance whatsoever of him taking a nap! I did warn them!!!
He slept 12hrs last night & has been at MIL's today. Had 2 naps there, 30min AM nap 10-10.30 & then they finally got him down at 2.20pm for 1.5hrs. So almost 4hrs A after a 30min nap. I really can't believe him atm. I'm actually thinking these huge A times after such a short nap are the cause of these 40min naps & that they are OT. Hmmm.
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Sabs-I agree, sounds like a comfort thing. My LO needed to have his hand under my armpit squeezing the skin there. This has always been his sleep thing! If he can't get the right skin to hand ratio he cries! Funny but annoying!
New Mama-I hear your frustration. Hugs for you. Do what works in order for everyone to be happy. Car sleep or no car sleep. You can always adjust things later. I had to do it with the constant EW. I just slept with him. Everyone got more sleep that way. Now it's time to stop though!
Claire-do what you have to do on daycare days and make the rest better schedule sleep days. It will work itself out. My Lo does pre-school 3 half days a week and he is so OT these days. It takes a few days to get back and then it starts a again but he does make up for it on the at home days.
Last night was the first night in weeks that he had BT at 7:45 and wake at 6:15!!! No NW!!! Yay!
Today was a school day and then to Grannies so 1 hour nap for him (OS AND OT) I tried an Early BT but he was squiggly so he didn't go down until 8pm. I expect a NW or EW or both!!!
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great job!!
I do think it is a comfort thing. i started to leave her to fuss a little and she normally settles. It is so annoying but cute at the same time.
I think she was too OS before bed last night b/c she had a difficult time settling. She was running around with there sister 10min before bed. Not your ideal wd but they were having so much fun. She did sleep on her own for 2hours. ;D anyhow, put her down at 7:30pm and she didn't fall asleep closer to 7:45pm( I think). Woke this am at 6:30am. I am used to her sleeping in a later. Oh well.
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lulunut - yay for no NW!!!
Sabs - sounds like you are doing right to hold back a little while she fusses & self settles. It must be so hard to calm her down before bed with a big sister to entertain her!
I am used to her sleeping in a later. Oh well.
IKWYM. ::)
We got 5.50am today (after a 7pm BT). :( Me thinks OT has set in. He's been a horror today, very over excited, arching his back & throwing himself backwards whenever I try to pick him up, fussing, crying, etc etc. I held him out til 10am for his nap (trying to be consistent) & I think it was a mistake as I reckon he'd already got his second wind by then. Very grumpy when I woke him after 30mins, & was rubbing his eyes at 12.30. Then got all excitable again. :-\ I'd planned to do 3hrs A as I think we went too far with 3.5hrs A after a 30min nap. Plus if it works it will give him a decent A time before BT.
Now I'm sitting here feeling very anxious b/c he's not sounding like he's going to settle & if he does I'm worried he'll only sleep 40mins again. :-\
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hugs Claire. I think we are also OT here.
I put her down at 11:55pm and she woke up 1hr and 10min later. I had to hold her back to sleep. Sigh. She was medicated so it has to be OT.
I am always anxious when it comes to sleep. :'(
How did it go?
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Oh shame. :( Hope you managed to get a decent nap in the end?
Surprisingly O's PM nap went really well after the 3hr A. No wakeups at all, he slept solidly til 3.20pm when I decided I should wake him as he'd been asleep 1h 45 & he wouldn't have enough A to BT otherwise. We put him down at 6.50pm & I don't think he was tired enough to sleep - he was growling & shouting for quite a while before he went off at 7.10pm ish. Here's hoping we don't get EW tomorrow. :-\
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well, that was a good afternoon.
She officially woke up at 2pm. Overall nap was 2hrs. Put her down for bed at 7:30pm and she chatted for a bit. Woke up at 4:30am for a cuddle. ::) Went back down until 6:50am. Do you think I am missing her window for bed or is it just UT again. I doubt I have to increase her A time.
Anyhow, come 12pm she climbed the stairs and went straight to her room, telling me she wanted to go sleep.
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ladies, what do I do today. she only napped for about 1hr and 40mins. No desire to go back. Official wu time was 1:45pm. Do I do a 7pm bt, latest 7pm. or try for a cn.
both kids will have a bt of 7pm tonight. :o
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Sabs - not sure if you'll get this in time, IIWM I'd probably do 7pm BT rather than CN.
How long does she chat for when she goes to bed ??? Oliver also chatters when I put him down, he rarely goes straight to sleep unless he's absolutely exhausted. The norm for us is around 10mins chatter before sleep & that's at both naptime & BT. So I always PD 10mins before I want him asleep. Sometimes he chats for a little longer, but if its any more than 20mins I put it down to UT. I think if she just chatters for a short while it really is totally fine. I've learned its better for them to go down like that that pass out the moment their heads hit the pillow, b/c if they fall into a deep sleep too quickly they are more likely to EW, whereas if they chat themselves to sleep & drift off more slowly, they should sleep later in the morning. How true it is, IDK but it does make sense!
Today we ended up having a 1 nap day. He just didn't seem tired come naptime. I PD at 9.50am & I swear he was charging around in his cot like a boy posessed. Wouldn't let me put on his sleeping bag at all. We had a bit of that yesterday too although after a bit of shouting he did eventually settle. This is after 4hrs A time. So I decided to get him back up & do a 1 nap day. It went:
Wake: 6.10
Nap: 11.40 - 2.05
BT: 7.05
He napped solidly for 1.5hrs, then cried a little as he was woken by a passing car. I thought that was nap over but he went back to sleep! Seems like a good day but I'm not sure if maybe his day was too long & I am just risking OT with day being almost 13hrs. O also seems to sleep a shorter night if his day is longer. Its so hard when they are waking as early as 6am though. I don't really want to do EBT b/c that will just encourage an even earlier WU, though maybe if I tried at 6.30pm he's still sleep to 6am in which case I'd know I could repeat the same & then work on shifting the day forwards. I guess I will have to see what WU we get tomorrow won't I?
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LOL Claire. We seem to think alike. 7pm bt is was i did.
she normally chats for 10min sometimes 15min.
good point about the EW. She did pass out quickly this evening due to her short nap.
Claire, your day looks fab! Good luck for tonight.
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Hi ladies. Just wanted to pop on and say that since we started sleep training back in mid-August we've been on 1 nap. There was no choice as we knew he would not go down for a second nap on his own, even after a very short am nap. Even though he is sometimes a little tired mid-morning, things are so much better. We are basically on a set nap and bedtime (12:20ish and 6:30). They aren't exactly where I'd like them, and sometimes he's up at 5:30, but the predictability is so nice. Even with that early morning he manages just fine on the one nap and is generally sttn (wakes sometimes for meds as he's teething molars). And S is taking much less time to fall asleep. He has just started daycare and is sleeping short there (1hr or less) but is still happy till bedtime and is asleep in a couple of minutes!
Anyway, all that to say that although he needed a little time to adjust, I no longer have to think about what to do when he is up early, or how long to go from 1st to 2nd nap, not having to fight him to sleep in the pm. So if you are still struggling, you will get there and maybe a set nap time might help.
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Becky - that's really great to hear! I did see your thread so I knew he was STTN & you'd dealt with the prop issues - what an achievement!!!!! Set nap time is the sort of thing I have in mind, as at least it takes away the guesswork & the constant adjusting of A times, AND it gives them more consistency.
I am struggling to fathom out what naptime to use for a set nap though, as b/c of our 6am starts, he can't make it all the way to 12/12.30 for a PM nap.
Yesterday I did 1 nap, he slept 10h 55 overnight, WU was 6am. Bit disappointed night sleep was as short as that, I fully accept it on 2 naps but on 1 I'd like to hope he'll sleep a little more. Anyway he's been super fussy, clingy, crying & rubbing his eyes by 9am this morning. So rather than being consistent with the 1 nap thing (or even his usual 2 nap day 10am 1st nap) I PD at 9.30am. He was ready. He had his MMR & various other shots yesterday so not sure if his tiredness/fussiness is down to that or doing 1 nap. I probably picked a really bad day to try it TBH.
Sooo....I'm feeling very torn ATM. I so want to be consistent for him, but my gut feeling/instinct is that he's still not quite ready for 1 nap, b/c every time I try he is utterly exhausted the following day. What do you think ladies, would that say to you that he's not ready, or that I just need to persevere until he gets used to it ??? And am I expecting too much to hope for longer than 11hrs at night on a 1 nap day ???
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Hay ladies! DOn't worry Claire-you may have to keep the 1 day and 2 day thing for a while! Heck, I am sometimes doing it here even now that he is 19mts. Sound far away, sorry but I think I may do 2 nap days 1x every 2 weeks or so. So there is hope!!
I understand the anxiety with sleep. My LO drove me bonkers!!! I just had to let it be. It does work out!
Yesterday was 4:15 wake with a quick PD and slept until 5:45. nap at 1 pm. At school and Grannies too much OS. Can't do much about that! slept 1.5 hours. Bt was 7:30. It took 30 min to get him to sleep!!
Today was 5am wake with PD for 1 hour. He went back to sleep at 6:15 until I woke him at 7:30. Nap at 12:45. Hopefully this will push him back into a full night sleep with no EW!!!
Good news he is starting to do things on his own. This is great! Even at Grannies.
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Claire, don't worry about switching form 2 to one naps. Madi did that for quiet a while. Just follow his cues.
Great job Becky. :-*
Lulunut, it seems you are making some progress there.
I felt bad but had to wake Alyssa from her nap today as it started at 12:15pm. 2hours later she was still sleeping and I didn't want a bt later then 8pm so I woke her up. I feel awful. I want her to nap well but her A times are quite high that there is not enough hours in the day to fit it all. Gee, you think I would be happy!
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It is 6:43am and he is still sleeping!!!!! I am awake however now that I am on the automatic 5am wake time! How do I adjust my own sleep now!!! LOL!
Great job ladies! Don't worry Sabs sometimes you have to do that in order to save the night sleep. I will wake LO in a bit to save nap!!
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Great job!
Alyssa has Madi's cold. Poor thing is so congested. Nap yesterday was 1hr and 45mins but it seemed like she didn't have a good sleep. I aimed bt at 7:15pm but she wouldn't wd b/c she couldn't drink her milk due to not breathing through her nose. :'( She was so upset and angry. Then I put on her cool mist on to help her breath and the silly thing shines a green light so she got stimulated from that and wanted to touch that. Silly me I should of turned it on when she was asleep. Anyhow, I was so frustrated as I just got my monthly friend and my patience was running thin, so hubby had to intervene and pat her. She fell asleep at 7:45am and of course woke up this morning at 6:15am. Classic OT. Also b/c she is sick. I couldn't get her back to sleep. She kept saying "bottle". I knew she was hungry as she didn't drink her milk yesterday.
Do you think I should aim for an 11:30am nap? Just when her EASY was going well and wu times were decent. I don't want her days to start at 6am again if I do an early nap and early bt.
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I'd go for early nap and BT or even two naps. I know when my LO's are sick they sleep lots but it tends to be short due to the trouble breathing.
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thanks.
I did put her down earlier. 11:30am and she slept until 1:20pm. I don't know what to do now. Bt is normally 7:30pm. Do i try to fit in a 10min cn or do a 6:50pm bt?
I don't her freaking days to creep earlier.
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Hi there people!
We have entered the world of wonky naps a few weeks ago, and until this weekend it was managable, however we are now struggling to get 2 naps in. LO is 11months old. Total sleep in day now only 1 -1.5 hrs with 12hour night. OUr day currently looks like this.
7am wake and bottle
11.15 Nap for 30mins
4pm Nap for 30mins
7pm Bed
The problem is he is just not tired enough when we put him down. I can feel itintuitively when I put him to bed. A little voice goes "he's just not that tired!!!". And we only get a longer nap if he wakes before 7am!!! But I don't think he is ready to go to 1 nap..... Have no idea what to do despite reading everything here. Some help would be so appreciated!!!!
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Sabs - sorry to hear A is poorly. What BT did you do in the end ??? I think I would have done same & gone with EBT rather than CN.
Kim - welcome to the 2-1!!! How long have you been getting 30min naps for ??? Is it a fairly recent thing ??? Does he wake naturally from both naps or do you wake him? And how is he waking from his naps at the moment - happy/well rested or crying ??? Reason I ask is that for us, 30min naps have always been OT, but if you say he isn't tired enough when you put him down to bed then it could be that he is in a bit of an UT/OT loop - wasn't tired enough for his nap, so took a short nap & as a result was OT by the end of the day. This can then manifest itself by way of 2x 30min naps every day. Do you think that could be what's happening ??? 1-1.5hrs total day sleep is pretty low at that age.
Ladies, we have decided to try & stick at 1 nap b/c its just getting so tough with 2. We've cut the AM nap back to 30mins but he isn't really tired when we put him down for that, I think he just sleeps b/c he's got no choice!!!! I'm fed up with struggling with our PM nap & not being able to figure the right A & its just ending up too late in the day meaning our WU's are creeping earlier. Soooo..... yesterday I followed his cues as to when to PD for his nap & got none!!! PD at 5.5hrs & he slept 1h 50 but woke several times OT. BT was after 5hrs A but he fought for 45mins, asleep 7pm & of course had a very disturbed night.
So today he woke at 6am. I pulled back his A time & PD at 11am (5hrs A). He woke at 1h 15 but resettled & slept 2hrs, 11am-1pm. BT was 6.40pm (aimed for 6.30 but took a while to settle). I'm really not sure if I've got our timings right, but for now I'm going to stick like glue to an 11am nap & hope for a good 2hrs & that his WU stabilises & we get past the OT wakeups. Once he's settled with that I will work on shifting it later by 10/15 mins until we get the nap nearer to 12. I think maybe I am doing BT too late at 6.30pm since his nap is 11am but I'm scared to do earlier in case he still only sleeps 11hrs. But then I'm not going to mop up the OT in the same way am I? WWYD ???
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I think I may have got myself in a little mess here. We were on our way home and 10mins before we got home she fell asleep. sigh. this was at 5:45pm. I didn't know what to do. Grrr.. put her down at 7:40pm. I hope we don't get an EW tomorrow.
fingers crossed for me.
i know the fear Claire of the 11hr night. I fear that too. The only way A will do a longer night is when her nap is shorter.
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I know I'm going to jinx things by posting this but we are now on the best routine ever. After going to 1 nap we were getting naps of usually about 1.5 hrs, from about 12:15 to 1:45, occasionally a bit shorter or longer. WU was generally 5:30-6 and BT was 6:30. The day was a little skewed with a much longer first A time, but I just decided to stick to that set nap time.
Well the last few days/nights wee have had naps of 2-2hr15 and nights of basically 7-7!!!!!!! He is getting more sleep in 24 hrs than he has in months! I am double medicating for teeth right now before sleeps as his molars are definitely on their way and when I wasn't medicating or only giving ibuprophen he was sleeping shorter. I'm really hoping this is not some medication effect???
Anyway, I posted this to give you hope Claire and anyone else toying with sticking to a 1 nap. Before we shifted we wee only getting total day sleep of about 1.5 hrs even with the shortened first nap. I can almost guarantee that now that I have posted this everything will go to pot, but I have the feeling he is just so happy with this routine. The thing is we didn't vary anything by more than about 15-20 minutes when he was especially tired and we did have a little OT stretch when dh was letting his nap start too late while I was away, but even he is convinced that we need to stick to this routine.
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Sabs - I wouldn't think a 10min nap should really eat into her night. She must have needed it after all. Hope you got a decent WU.
Wow Becky that really gives me hope!!!!! I am a little scared that I have made our nap start too early, but I thought if I stick to it for a couple of weeks then I can work on shifting it later towards midday. And hope beyond hope that his nights extends. He generally will take around 2hr nap (sometimes more sometimes less) but at the moment its very disturbed & he keeps waking up crying. Our nights have been disturbed too & I know he is OT. But I too think I have to see it through.
This morning he woke at 3.50, 4.30, 5.10, 5.30 & finally up for the day at 5.55am. So 11h 15 sleep. Bit disappointed it was disturbed like that, but I guess its an improvement on the day before - small steps eh?
Becky what do you think to my timings - do they sound reasonable???
WU: 6am (there or thereabouts though hoping this may improve eventually)
Nap: 11am (hopefully for 2hrs+)
BT: 6.30pm (so we are keeping to 12.5hr day max
Hoping then once he's used to that & nap extends or WU gets later, we can shift the nap gradually towards 12 & BT back to 7pm. I really don't want to be stuck with 6.30pm BT's for long as I go back to work next week & it means I will only get to see him for 30mins.
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Claire, that is what I did with Alyssa. Her bt was 6:30pm for a while then I gradually shifted her day. TBH, I don't even remember how we did it. I think she just woke up later one morning.
Great job Becky! :-*
She woke up at 6:50am. I guess she needed that power nap. I don't know! I thought for sure she went to bed UT.
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Yay Alyssa!!! ;D She must've needed it!
Oliver is at nursery today. I've asked them to do his nap at 11am & I'm hoping & praying he'll take a decent one, or at the very least, longer than an hour! I'm at home on my last Monday of maternity leave & I've got tonsilitis & earache :(
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Good luck for today. So sorry you are not feeling well. I am going on my 20th day with a really bad sinus infection. Already have had two doses of antibiotics.
Sending healthy vibes your way. Try to enjoy your last week sweetie.
Alyssa did the strangest thing before nap. she wanted to go down early so I put her down at 12pm but she was crying as she was laying down. Not sure if it was b/c of the cold or something else. She basically cried into her blankie as I was patting her bum. She wouldn't even stay calm on my shoulder.
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Oh, I didn't know you are ill too - sinusitis is nasty. Hope you are feeling better soon.
Do you think maybe A's cold is just making her that bit extra sleepy atm ???
Well O's nap didn't go so great at nursery although it was a slight improvement on last wk. Went:
WU: 5.55am (11h 15 sleep - but woke repeatedly from 3.50am)
Nap: 11.05am - 11.45am took 20mins to resettle to sleep.
Nap: 12.05pm - 12.30pm. dirty nappy was changed at 12.35pm so I guess that's what woke him
BT: 6.10pm Put down 6pm due to poor nap.
When I picked him up his usual carer wasn't there & the other lady read his record book & said he'd only slept 40mins & so when I got home we opted for 6pm EBT. I didn't realise he'd actually had another 25mins until after we'd put him to bed, so I'm now a little scared we've put him down too early. That said, he's in bed 20mins early yet he's slept 1hr less than normal so here's hoping he'll do a catch up night or we're in for a VERY early start tomorrow. :-\
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I think she was just extra sleepy b/c she slept for 2hrs and 10mins. Of course, come bt, she was laughing and giggling in her crib. ::)
I think it will take him some time to get used to sleeping at nursery.
Lets hope he catches up tonight. Good luck.
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Hope you both feel better soon.
Well, as I predicted, by mentioning the wonderful routine it went a bit wrong with an EW of 5:30. He cried a bit then was quiet till 6. Then his nap was only 1.5 hrs. I know I really should accept that as his 'normal'. When at daycare he's not sleeping too long (an hour or less) so maybe those were a couple of catchup days.
Claire, your times look good to me. For some reason I was scared to do the earlier nap, fearing a long afternoon if it ended early. I have heard of people doingit your way then gradually shifting everything.
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Kim - welcome to the 2-1!!! How long have you been getting 30min naps for ??? Is it a fairly recent thing ??? Does he wake naturally from both naps or do you wake him? And how is he waking from his naps at the moment - happy/well rested or crying ??? Reason I ask is that for us, 30min naps have always been OT, but if you say he isn't tired enough when you put him down to bed then it could be that he is in a bit of an UT/OT loop - wasn't tired enough for his nap, so took a short nap & as a result was OT by the end of the day. This can then manifest itself by way of 2x 30min naps every day. Do you think that could be what's happening ??? 1-1.5hrs total day sleep is pretty low at that age.
Thanks clairebear! So I do feel it is a little light on daytime sleep. Been getting 30mins for a couple of weeks now and when he wakes himself at that time and he screams, but then is happy once we come downstairs. Doesn't seem tired or miserable. 30mins usually means undertired for us, and 45 mins is usually overtired. Saying that a few times recently he has fallen asleep when out and had a good hour and it has always been 'early'. Mostly he sleeps well at night, so don't think he is that overtired, but will try putting him down earlier today and for the rest of the week to see what happens. At least even if he still only has 30mins there will be more chance for a longer nap at nap 2. What do you think?
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Kim - have you recently increased his A time??? Or have his naps just started to cut shorter naturally ??? Oh & what's your preference routine wise - short AM/long PM or long AM/short PM ??? Looking at the routine you posted above it looks like you've been working on pushing his AM A time so I'm guessing you want long AM nap???
Sorry for all the Q's just might help me/others to offer you the right guidance.
Basically if you are absolutely sure he's not OT & he's waking happy from naps, then you would want to work on gradually extending that AM A time towards 4.5-5hrs & he should take a lovely long nap of 2hrs+ & you can drop the PM nap. Until the nap extends, you would keep offering a short CN to tide him over until BT.
However, your comments that he's been sleeping for longer if he goes down for his nap a little earlier suggest to me that he could be. WRT your current routine, I'd say at the very least, try shortening the gap between the AM & PM nap, as if he is only sleeping 30mins at his AM nap then he is quite likely to be OT with 4h 15 A time until his PM nap.
At 10/11months, my LO would do around 2.5hrs A after a 30min nap & this has now increased to around 3hrs (he's 13months). You might find this gets you a longer PM. The difficulty you may face is that even with a shorter A before that PM nap, it will still start quite late in the day. You definitely don't want a long nap that runs later than 4pm as you will find it starts to affect BT or cause NW/EW. So if he will go down a tad earlier for his AM nap then it will help keep that PM nap a tad earlier & then mean he can sleep for longer without it affecting his night.
Of course that may all be irrelevant if you want to do long AM nap!!! Just thought I'd mention since it looks like that is your aim for today. And yes 2pm ish nap sounds fine.
Ladies today hasn't started off very well for us. Ugh! DS woke every half hour after BT til 10pm & then woke from 4.30-5am fussing & trying to get back to sleep & struggling, & then up for the day at 5.40am. Ugh! 11hrs sleep.
All he has done this morning is cry (b/c he's clearly OT & exhausted), until I took him to his grandparents that is, & then he was all happy ::) Still, we are persevering with the 11am nap & hoping that he takes a good one. I really don't know if this is the right thing to be doing right now. :-\
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It has to be in the air.
we got at 6:15am wu this morning. Not sure if it was due to Ut or too much day sleep.
here is how yesterday went:
wake 6:50am
nap 12-2:10pm
bed 7:30pm asleep by 7:45pm
she went to bed pretty happy. Showed no tired cues. I put her down and she stood right back up wanting to play.
I too am going to preserve with her usual nap time, hoping she will get caught up.
second time this week she woke up at this time.
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I am wondering if its the mornings getting colder - what do you think??? I might put the heating on soon. But I don't want the pipes gurgling in the morning to wake him up either LOL!
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LOL. I have been putting an undershirt on her at night. I have also put her in a two piece flannel p.j set. Maybe socks is needed?
Put her down at 11:50am. she was crying for her sleep. I am such a cruel mommy. :'( Anyhow, she was coughing and 10mins later woke up crying. This pesky cough seems to be bothering her. I do recall hearing her cough at around 9pm last night.
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not going to be a good nap ladies.
she spat up during her sleep. she hasn't done this since she was a nb.
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Oh dear - is she coming down with a tummy bug? Or teething - can cause reflux flares can't it? Hope you got a decent nap & that she's ok.
O made it to his 11am nap today despite the 5.40am WU. He slept 2hrs solid (phew!) & was absolutely shattered by 6pm. I think we probably should have PD for 6pm but after yesterday I didn't really want to, so we did 6.30pm BT & he went STS. I'm a little concerned that the extra A time will have made him more OT leading to another restless night & maybe I do need to do EBT's for a wee while to help him keep ontop of his OT - but then the thought of more 5.30am WU's sickens me. But maybe some short term pain for long term gain is whats needed. WWYD?
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Hello everyone!
Claire- good for you with the 1 nap. It's tough at first and you may need to revert back every once in a while!
Sabs-sorry your LO isn't feeling well.
Welcome everyone else! There is great advice on here and a lot of support!
Last night we had a late guest and the kids went down at 8pm. I got a scream at 4am but I didn't go in. I got a 5:50 wake! Today is a school day so 1 hour nap. Grannie got him back down for another 20 min. So EBT tonight. I am having progress which is great. It needs slight adjusting which is slowly coming but good!!
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I think it is a flare. She seemed fine the remainder of the day. Overall nap was 1hr and 45min. I am so lost ladies. I don't know why her A after nap is creeping towards 6hrs. I always aim for her in bed at the 5.5hour mark but lately it has been taking her longer to fall asleep. Do I try putting her down even earlier so she has some wd time in her crib?
She officially woke up at 1:40pm so I thought 7:15pm latest bt. I gave her a bottle at 7:10pm and normally she gets drowsy with it and as soon as I place her in her crib she drifts off, but lately, especially tonight, she just popped right back up. I can hear her calling me from her crib as we speak. What do you ladies think? UT at bt? I have a feeling it is? WTH is going on. It can't be OT.
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O.k so she woke up 20mins later coughing and started crying as she couldn't settle. Grrr. thinking OT??? Going to put her down tomorrow evening at the 5hr and 15min mark and see how she does. How does that sound? Thinking second wind!
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Oh bless. Sounds like OT - I'd think 6hrs A was pretty long, esp if she is doing 5.5hrs in the AM too.
We had a rough start to the night with O - he woke crying 40mins after BT & was then crying every 20mins after that for a couple of hours. He then slept soundly til 5.40am, chattered for a few mins & went back to sleep til 6.35am. So 12h 5min sleep. At last he has had a catch up night!
So: quick help needed if poss: I've been doing set nap at 11am (5hrs A as he was waking at 6am), BT at 6.30pm & now he's finally woken later, do I need to keep that nap at 11am so I am consistent or do I need to keep with the 5hrs A? He is absolutely shattered & my head says stick at 11am nap b/c that is his routine (for this wk at least) & I can work on pushing his nap later in a week or 2 once he is used to the 1 nap. But in the back of my mind I am worrying that 4.5hrs A isnt going to give me a decent enough nap to last him til BT. WWYD???
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Sabs-I think to too. How is the teeth? Sometimes they can cause extra saliva that causes coughing.
Claire-sorry you had a rough night. I would stick to the 11am for a bit. Enjoy! Then slowly push times. Sometimes they backfire so I would enjoy your Y time now! Besides, don't we have daylight savings soon? We have to adjust for that later too!!
Well, I was up at 5am again! By myself! He is still sleeping. He was OS/OT before BT so it took about 40 min before he actually went down but he is still sleeping now at 6am and he's up!!
Gotta go!
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I don't know if it is teeth. I can't seem to get a good look in her mouth. Something tells me that she doesn't need much day sleep and anything over 2hrs will cause us problems. Going to try an earlier bt tonight. I really hate the fact that the ews are creeping in again. I just hope it is teeth and OT and we can get out of it soon.
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Kim - have you recently increased his A time??? Or have his naps just started to cut shorter naturally ??? Oh & what's your preference routine wise - short AM/long PM or long AM/short PM ??? Looking at the routine you posted above it looks like you've been working on pushing his AM A time so I'm guessing you want long AM nap???
Wow thanks for this reply clairebear! Great detail, thankyou.So, I have been gradually extending his A time since he was little and it has always worked a treat. So he was at 4hr15 A time and I was getting 2 x 1 hour naps and 2 weeks ago the morning one starting shortening, but then so did the pm one! Which is why I am in a tizz! He can easily do 4hr 30 and doesn't show ANY signs of being tired. There just aren't enough hours in the day to get enough A time and big enough naps. Do I make any sense?
I am aiming for a long pm nap, but maybe I am not doing it right? Should I bring the am one earlier? Normal day is:
Wake 630am
Nap 1 1030am - 4.15 hours after waking (30min)
Nap 2 3pm - 4 hours after waking (30min)
Bed 630 - 3 hours after waking
Many thanks again all.. So glad for this forum to hear how you are all coping!
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Hi all! Have a quick minute and thought I'd come and update. :) We're still, kind of, stuck in the same situation. J is, actually, napping quite well, but we're still stuck on 2 naps. He turned 14 months yesterday and I kind of want to push forward to 1 nap but with dd's school MWF, that is proving to be pretty difficult. So....we're stuck at 2. He is still waking fairly early, but it 'seems' to be closer to the 6am time frame. I don't usually hear him until he's been up for awhile and whining to get out. However, he is still so so tired by 9:30 for that first nap. I've been putting him down at 9:30 (assuming a 6am or possibly earlier WU). I let him sleep 30 minutes and always wake him up at 10. He goes down again at about 12:50 when we get back from dropping off dd. He normally sleeps 1.5 for the PM. On occasion, a little longer.
So...I know I need to push out that AM nap. Tomorrow I will aim for 9:45-10:15. I'll probably push it out before cutting it back. Once we can do 9:45, I'll cut it back to 20 minutes. It's just so tough b/c I think, naturally, he's going to want to sleep from 11-1 (or so) on a 1 nap day. But we will not be able to do that MWF due to drop off for preschool. ::) Oh, and he never ever fights sleep. He, typically, is eager to lay down and falls asleep quickly. This is where I'm confused b/c is he OT then?! IDK.
I always feel horribly guilty waking him up from naps b/c I figure he's sleeping b/c he's tired. But the kid will seriously sleep 3+ hours during the day and I know that it usually will cause for a short night if I let him. Tough to figure that one out.
I guess, we're just kind of stalling. It's not the worst sleep b/c he's sleeping. He is teething molars and bottom teeth, so that adds to it. I do wish we could get a tad bit of a later WU. I'm hoping for, at least 6:30am. It just kind of makes it impossible when he's tired by 9am. Then, to add to it, I have to cut his PM nap almost always when I have to go get her. Grrrr!
ETA: Wanted to add the schedule we're pretty much stuck at right now so you guys can see it...
6:00 WU (sometimes earlier, occasionally a few minutes later)
9:30-10 nap (I always wake him)
12:50-2:30ish (I typically have to wake him on MWF. The other days I let him sleep)
7:00 BT
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what if you cut his am nap to 20mins and move his pm nap earlier? have you tried any one day naps recently?
Kim, if you are aiming for a long am/short pm nap. You would gradually push out that am nap and the pm nap would gradually get shorter. Is he waking earlier from his am nap?
So ladies, I suspect molars here. Not sure as she has been very fussy lately. The last two mornings she has woken up at 6am and I had to AP her back to sleep. I don't know! This morning I put her down for her usual nap and before her nap she likes to have her bottle. Don't know if this was the cause, but she was not happy when her bottle was done. I think she uses it to get drowsy. When I put her in her crib she kept crying and saying bottle. Anyhow, it took me an extra 20mins to settle her. Overall am A was 5hrs and 40mins. ??? ??? I probably should of gave some pain meds. Is it wrong to allow her to get drowsy with the bottle. I mean we have beed doing that for quite some time now. The soothing seems to comfort her.
just heard her fussing now. 30mins exactly. OT nap. I hop she self settles.
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so got a one hour nap from 12:30-1:30pm and she woke up screaming and not wanting to go back. I think she couldn't settle. S**t. I don't know what to do now. Aim for a 5min Cn with a 7:15pm bt or just do a bt at 7pm.
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Sabs - WRT bottle before nap - so long as she's going down drowsy but awake I think you are ok. I'd try a short drive mid afternoon & see if she'll have a short nap. Failing that I'd probably do EBT. She will be OK. :-*
Kim - would your LO actually go down any earlier than 10.30am? if you are aiming for a long PM nap, you would probably need the AM nap a bit earlier in the day TBH. Maybe more like 10am? & then wake after 30mins & then aim for PM nap 2.5-3hrs later so 1/1.30pm ish. Then hopefully he should sleep a good 1.5hrs, ideally no less. Then you have around 3.5-4hrs A after the nap to BT at 6.30/7pm. I think ATM the gap between your naps is a bit too big & he's a gotten bit OT. If he won't go down earlier for the AM nap, I'd certainly just try bringing the PM nap earlier so it starts between 1.30-2pm & see if that helps to extend it.
Cyndie - oh what a conundrum with your DD's school hours. I really don't know what to suggest. :-\ Maybe like you say, push out & cut back that AM nap a touch more & get him down as soon as you get home from school drop off for his PM nap so you can get the maximum amouont of sleep into him as you can.
Ladies, we're still (trying to) sticking out the 1 nap days but the last few have been a bit messy b/c DS is poorly with sickness, runny nose & fever. Not sure if its a bug or the after effects of his vaccinations. Yesterday, after a truly awful night of screaming, he napped 1h 50 & then also took a short 10min CN at around 4.30pm, BT 7pm. Today was a complete write off:
Wake: 6.30am
Nap: 11.15am - 12pm (woke after 1 sleep cycle chatting & happy in his cot. Left him for 40mins to see if he'd resettle. Nope - he had a dirty nappy & once changed, nap was well & truly over)
Nap: 1.30 - 2pm (in car on way to my mums - clearly shattered from short nap. Woke when the engine stopped)
CN: 4.20 - 4.40pm (in car on way home from mums - he'd been rubbing his eyes since 3.45pm)
BT: 6.30, asleep 6.45pm
So, we are just muddling along as best as we can. We started off with set nap at 11am (which was 5hrs A) but his WU has gotten a little later in the last 2 days meaning the A time shortened to 4.5hrs. After a couple of days of shorter naps I decided to nudge the nap out a little later to 11.15am (4.75hrs) as 5hrs A seems to be a touch too far just yet. I'm hoping that once he's feeling better things will settle down.
Oh ladies, also wanted to ask if anyones got advice on this: DS seems to have a poop most days just before 12midday, which unfortunately now lands right in the middle of his nap. It is disrupting his nap almost every day & I really don't know what to do about it. Any ideas how I can get him to poop at a different time of day?! As once he's up, its a real struggle (impossible really) to get him back down, & I think this is what's causing a lot of our nap troubles.
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CN failed in the car. I normally take her for a stroller walk but it was raining so hard. In bed and asleep by 7:05pm. I put her down and of course she stood up quickly to look at me. I left and she fussed for one second. I hope she catches up tonight.
Oh Claire, I hate it when they are sick. A gets sick all the time b/c of Madi. It really sucks. Hope he feels better soon.
As for the poopy diaper. What are you feeding him the am? Any new foods in the evening? I have no idea on how to change the time of poop. A does it in the am and pm. A few nights she has done it when I put her down for bed. I wish I new. The only thing I can think of is what he is eating the night before and in the morning.
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Sabs, I have never tried a 1 nap day. It's quite difficult (at least now) with him waking so early in the AM and my dd's school schedule 3 days/week. I would never be able to keep him awake until we got back from dropping dd off at school. We are typically back around 12:45 and I take him right upstairs to his room. He's usually asleep within minutes and I wake him (usually) at 2:30 or so. I think, if I was to try 1 nap he would need to go down around 11 or so. Since we have to leave at 12:15 MWF, that will not work. He would fall asleep in the car if I kept him up. And we all know what happens then - no nap when we get home!
I wonder if I can try 1 nap days on days when she's not in school?! Then MWF stick with the 20 minute AM, then the 2nd nap when we get back from dropping her off. That could work. Ideally, a 1 nap/day at 12:45-2:30 (on days when she's in school) would be awesome. I just need him to be able to stay up from 6am until 12:50 or to sleep in later than 6am!
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I doubt he will stay up that long. I would try days that you are home first, b/c 6am to about 1pm is very long for him. I would stick with the 20min naps on those days and move his pm nap a little earlier. Once you are on one nap, I think he will sleep in more. YWKIM? I can only imagine how difficult it is for you. How long do you think he can stay up for? I mean, what is the longest A he has done? I wouldn't push the one nap cold turkey, just yet. You need to slowly cut that am nap out and move the pm nap earlier.
OMG ladies, I know what I did wrong. Alyssa was asleep by 7pm. Woke up at 4am so I gave her Tylenol and a hug. She didn't fall back asleep until 5am. Then from 5-7 she woke up every 40mins. I think she wants cuddles b/c when I pick her up she will make herself cozy on me and go back to sleep. The moment I put her back down she would cry-like an offended cry. Anyhow, I had to do pu with a pat on her bum to settle her. sigh. do you ladies suspect this 4am wu is an EW? She only napped for one hour yesterday and I couldn't get a cn out of her. Mind you she was in such great spirits last night. She is so spirited when it comes to sleep.
I feel so down today b/c just when things were going well with her, this starts. I think it is molars.
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Brilliant, Clairebear... thats what my instinct was telling me (earlier am nap to make roo m for long pm one) but just didn't trust it! Doh! Should listen to that voice. I agree about getting overtired too.
Had a ridiculous 5.15am wake this morning as he got stuck in his cot the wrong way round and wouldn't go back to sleep. But then amazingly he has caught up with 1hr 45min (had to wake him for lunch) and another 45min nap. Trying to be true to BW and watch his cues more, and then he won't get overtired.
BEst of luck everyone with the continued transition! Am going for the earlier nap tomorrow! Thansk again.
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Good luck Kim
Sabs - how are things going? Hope A is feeling a bit happier now.
Been a hectic few days here - Oliver was poorly again, & I returned to work yesterday too. We've had a hard time sticking with our 1 nap plan as he has been short napping & we were having to resort to driving him around trying to get CN's out of him. The last 2 days he is still incredibly tired, & has woken early due to being OT, but we've kept him to his nap at 11.15, & he slept 2hrs at nursery yesterday & 2hrs 40 at his grandparents today. :o :o :o And was still shattered & ready for bed by 6.30pm tonight! Am hoping that doesn't mean we will get an early start to the day tomorrow though. :-\
Oh & as for his poopy nappy at naptime - he has cereal eg weetabix/rice krispies/porridge plus fresh/pureed fruit followed by a bottle of formula for breakfast. I've only been giving fruit for breakfast/lunch as I read it can cause early morning poo if you give it too late in the day (& I don't want anything else that could encourange him to EW! ::)) So maybe that is what's causing the issue at naptime? I'm hoping that as we get his nap shifted out later it will become less of a problem. FX'd!
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Wow! I have missed a bunch!
Claire-I hope your LO feels better. I just did what ever worked and tried to stick to routine but didn't push it when my Lo's were sick. The poop could be from breakfast. It could just be a phase as your LO's systems grows. Hopefully it doesn't last long!!
Sabs-sorry about the teeth. Molars are tough! It sounds like you Lo loves the AP. I did that for a long time. I just started last week hanging by the crib and SHH until he fell asleep on his own. Sometimes lots of PD some days one or 2. I was his prop! Doing this stopped his EW's. Not sure why but it's working!
Kim-hang on it does get better! Hugs!
Today was school day so 45 min nap! BT was 7:15. Last night was 4:30 cry, I went in one PD and he was out!! Back up at 5:50. That was ok! I just didn't get back to sleep!! So tired!
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lulunut - great that PD is working on the AP & his nights are improving - yay!!!
We hit breaking point with our 1 nap routine today.
Yesterday he slept 2h 40 for his nap from 11.20am-2pm & he started screaming & crying with tiredness at 6.15pm (he is very, very OT) & so we got him ready for bed straight away - he was asleep at 6.45pm. Today, he woke at 4.55am & did not go back to sleep. I seriously could have cried. We haven't had one of those for quite a while & I am absolutely certain its down to OT b/c he has been waking repeatedly in the early part of the night & crying.
So....with that WU there was no way I could hold him out til 11am, he was crying & miserably tired all morning til his nap at 9am (the earliest I was prepared to put him down). I let him sleep 45mins for his AM nap & then he took a PM nap of 1h 45 from 1.30-3.15pm. And he was crying for bed by 6.30pm again. He is so, so OT. Asleep 6.45pm & I'm hoping we don't get another rude awakening again tomorrow.
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Hi Ladies, we are 2 weeks away from Zac being 1, but he is very much a little toddler now and if its okay I was going to hang out on this thread for a bit - I am thinking maybe I will see some good advice being thrown around! :) We are pretty much on 1 nap days now, CN is refused, but having a few 'issues' at the moment with teething and developmental leaps - gross!
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Welcome!
Thanks Claire!
Those three school days on a row really mess him up! I spend the next 2-3 days straightening it out only to go back to the usual again next week! Urgh!
1 hour naps for the last 3 days and ew to go along with it! Today was 1 hour with AP for 30 min and earlier BT. I hope for a later wake!!!
Hope everyone is doing good!
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Hello again Sara! ;) Can't believe Z is nearly 1! Glad to see you are just about through your transition.
Ours is ugly ATM! Almost 2 weeks of 1 nap ended in disaster with a 4.55am WU & there was no way he was making it to 11am for his nap. We had 2 days of catch up naps with 45min AM nap & 1.75hr PM nap, his WU shifted back to 6.10am & then yesterday we had PM nap refusal ::)
And this was after 4hrs A time in the AM, followed by a 30min nap. I came home from work to find him screaming in his cot b/c he wasn't tired enough to go down after 3hrs A following a short nap. He ended up doing over 4hrs which meant I had to cap his nap to keep BT at 7pm, and of course today he started stirring/crying out every 15mins from 4.30am onwards & we got an EW at 5.30am. Ugh!!! ::)
It seems that if he is nap resisting after only 2 days back on 2 naps then either we are getting his A times hugely wrong or he needs to be back on 1 nap. We rarely get tired signs (although he looks tired ALL THE TIME) so getting the right A times is like a big guessing game. And of course b/c his nights & WU vary so greatly, the A time he needs each day also varies greatly. If I keep to 4hrs A time, its not enough & we get UT naps/nap resistance if he's slept 11.5hrs at night, yet if he's only slept 10.5hrs, 4hrs A time is too long & makes him OT. Ugh ugh ugh! Where the heck do I go with this ???
I think we got unlucky b/c I started him off on 1 nap with 5hrs A (set nap at 11am) & that was maybe a step too far (I think his limit is 4.75hrs). Plus he was poorly after having his jabs, and has a cold & I started back at work last week - so lots of change going on ATM. Maybe I try again but with a shorter A time?
I have a possibly stupid question: For those of you who stick to a given amount of A time, what do you do about BT??? Do you do it at a set time of day, or after a set amount of A time? Just thinking out loud b/c as I say, Oliver's day's vary so much. If one day he wakes at 6am & goes to bed at 7pm, & then the next day he wakes at 5.30am & I repeat exactly the same A times as the day before, this would mean he'd need to go to bed at 6.30pm. Then that might mean he wakes even earlier the next day & so on. So how do you get around this???
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Hi Claire :) I thouht we were done and dusted with the 2-1 to be honest, but it seems we are now having nap length problems :-\ I was getting 45min nap and refusals for a CN all day long! So far our nights are okay. On that 45min day we got a 13.5hour night ::) Yesterday was a 1.5hour nap and a 11.5hr night. I am really worried tohugh we are heading your way with EW around the corner.
On the other 2-1 the ladies are all just starting. So it is hard to get opinions IYKWIM?
Tired signs are a guessing game here too, and I think we need to do a 5hr Nap 5hr BT day. It is jut so scary getting to the 5hrs when the naps are rubbish. Claire I do EBT with no earlier than 6pm to stop the day creeping and encouraging the EW. Otherwise I think we need a good 5hr A to BT. Or we get screaming ::) I had to put up more blackouts up as with DLS we have bright sun streaming in!
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Hi Sara. How have things been today? We too got an extra long night on the day O did a stupidly short nap like that - I guess its their way of self regulating. WRT the short naps - how is he waking? Happy/crying? When we tried with O, the day he woke after 45mins he was actually quite happy but within 1.5hrs he was zonked out in the car. I think he only woke happy b/c it was at the end of a sleep cycle rather than in the middle, but for him it was definitely still an OT nap. Not to say that is the case for Z though. Do you do the same 4.75hr A both before & after your nap atm? or are you doing a longer A to BT? Just wondering if you maybe stretch 1 A time rather than both, if you think the nap shortening is b/c he is UT?
The last 2 days we've done 2 naps as follows:
yesterday:
wake: 5.30 (10.5hr night. waking repeatedly from 4.30am onwards, chatting & dozing. I am certain this is OT from PM nap mess day before)
Nap: 9.30 - 10am (held him out til 9.30 even though he'd have gone down a lot earlier. Woke him after 30mins to preserve PM nap)
Nap: 1.30 - 3.00 (PD at 1.05, asleep 1.15 but woke coughing & took 10mins to resettle. we woke him at 3pm)
BT: 7pm
today:
Wake: 6.20am (11h 20 night. waking repeatedly from 4.50am onwards, chatting & dozing)
Nap: 9.30 - 10 (was worried 9.30 would be too early but he looked tired so I risked it. Asleep quickly. We woke him from nap)
Nap: 1.30 - 3.00 (repeated yesterday's nap time but think A time between naps may be too long as we had to wake him again & he seemed quite tired all afternoon)
BT: 7.20pm (PD 6.50pm but coughing a lot & think this was why he took a long time to settle)
So he's poorly yet again (& so am I - oh the joys of daycare ::)) & so I cannot put my finger on whether the continuing EW are down to being poorly/OT/UT, but I am pretty convinced its accumulated OT from all the 1 nap days & maybe also b/c I am stretching him with too long an A time both before & after his short AM nap. I checked out the sample routines & they all suggest 2.5-3hrs max A time when doing short AM nap, but this does seem rather short for Oliver now. What do you think - is 3.5hrs A just asking for OT trouble after a 30min nap??? He has suddenly started headshaking a lot again. He used to do this when we had the EW before, & since he's been waking later & his days have been shorter (<13hrs) its all stopped. So to me, its not a good sign.
He's at nursery tomorrow & they struggle to get 2 naps from him, so will most probably do 1, so by Wednesday when he's home with me he'll probably be even more OT. Ugh - I so wish I could be at home with him all week :'(
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Thanks Claire :-* will pop back on and read/post again. Zac has got a tummy bug!!! Vomiting ans diarrhea started yesterday and high temp :( so ATM routine is out the window ::) x
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Oh Claire! I am sorry that you are having so much trouble.
I am not sure you can do much about day care days. He is probably OS there and 1 nap is all he will do. At least mine does this, which leads to OT and short naps which for me leads to early BT and EW which I AP. On days when my LO is home with me I try to extend his nap with AP. I can usually put him back in his crib and get an additional 20-30 min out of him. I keep BT early. 7:15. This is long A time for my LO but after a few days he gets better.
I have learned that longer nap leads to less EW. However, I can't get a longer nap when he is OS with OT! It's a struggle. I remember being in your spot. It's a cycle that sucks! You will get through it. Hugs for you.
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Well, here I again!
I recognize many of you :-P
Struggling with a time for one nap. She seems ut, babbling till she's gone too far. She slept in this morning after a bad day. She resists pm nap with 2o min am nap and nights are almost always 12 hrs.
Today was
Wake 7 .25
Nap 11.45 but babbled then had a bm so changed her in dark, babble then finally wined and i shhed and patted her bum and she went down at 12.50!!!!
My anxiety levels are throught the roof, I go back to work in a week, HELP PLEASE!!!
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thanks lulunut! I think that's exactly where we're at too. The last 2 days I've stuck with 4.75hrs A time & yesterday he went down in 5mins flat & slept 2.5hrs. B/c he woke early he had a long A to BT & wound up OT.
Wake: 6am (11h 15 sleep BUT Woke repeatedly overnight)
Nap: 10.55am - 12.15pm (
BT: 6.30pm
He was very excitable, squealing & crawling around in circles all morning. I put him down aiming for 4.75hrs A & he fought sleep - I knew as soon as I put him in bed he was already way OT. We got a short nap & then he poo'd so there was no way he would go back down to sleep. Got up & went out for a couple of hours, hoping he'd sleep in the car but nope. Tried a nap in the cot when we got home but he refused, even though he was clearly tired. So we ended up with another stupidly long A time to bed. He is very very OT atm & I can't seem to get him out of this spiral. I think I need to shorten his A's back up & go back to basics but advice on my thread is to stick at it & ride out the OT. Thing is, he doesn't handle OT well at all. We just get more EW.
greenteamomma - can you post your EASY for a typical 2 nap day so we can see what sort of times she is taking (or resisting) her naps? What is a typical WU for her? Have you tried many 1 nap days yet or is this the first one? How did she sleep today in the end? I would guess if she is seeming UT then you might need to extend her A a little. So maybe instead of 4h 15mins try 4.5hrs? If she doesn't settle well then increase it a little more. HTH.x
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Just venting! I am so, so ticked off! 1 hour naps equal 5am wake!!! Tues-Thurs at Grannies kill me!!! She tries to put him back down but he just has such a busy brain! I can't do PD at 5am cus he wakes everyone else up. I want a sound proof room!!!!
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I feel your pain lulunut!!!! We are in OT EW hell too - 5am WU here as well, after 1hr 15min nap yesterday. I am never successful at PD either - it just revs him up too much - & we haven't even got other children to think about. It must be hard.
I really can't wait for this 2-1 to be over. We are back with 2 naps today - he's just about to go down for nap 2 & I sure hope its a good one.
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Yep! I am exactly where you are!! I get no more than 1.5 naps and that is pushing it! This morning 4:50am with a 45 min PD and up down to make sure I was still there and he finally slept until 6:50 but my DD was up at 5:30 with all the screaming!!! I have come to the conclusion that WTS maybe my only other option. It makes me nervous but it's time! I have been doing this for a year now and it's time to stop the madness!!!
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How are things ladies? We had a bit of a setback b/c DS has been poorly AGAIN. We went back to 2 naps b/c he was rather OT & after 3 days we're back at nap resistance. We are working on cutting the AM nap back drastically, & all being well provided he doesn't get ill again, we should be in a position to try 1 nap again.
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Ladies, I need some quick input! We're still mostly on 2 naps. The AM being cut at 20. Then the PM being whatever. Today got kind of messed up b/c he slept in later. Woot!! So, I was going to go for the 1 nap at 11, after dd's soccer. Well, we get to soccer at 10 and it gets cancelled/rescheduled until 1:00 b/c no kids show up. Lovely. So, I ran back home to put him down. Here's my dilemma....
He's been down 20 minutes (went down at 10:40). Do I wake him now so that he can nap again (at about 2:00) after dd's soccer. Or do I let him sleep till he wants, I'm guessing it'll be 1.5 hours and then we most likely won't have a PM CN and he'll be a BEAR? Or I can try a PM CN at, say 3:30ish, depending on how long he sleeps now. IDK!! I do know that there's no way he'll be able to go from, say, 12:30-BT. That's way too long of a PM for him.
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Hi Cyndie - only just reading this - been at work today! So guessing am too late - what did you do in the end?
Can I ask what your days are looking like now? What A times are you doing ATM & have your EW's gone?
We have been trying to push 1 nap & it keeps going a bit disasterously. We stuck it for 2 weeks & ended up with awful EW which we've spent a couple of weeks trying to get rid of. I have a thread running & advice is to keep pushing the 1 nap & allow a CN whenever he needs it but getting a PM cn from O is virtually impossible & with EW we are just getting so OT. I am giving it one last try & if it all goes to pot then I will be getting a 2 nap routine re-established with a very short AM nap too.
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Claire, I ended up waking him after about 25 minutes (so at 11:10). I knew he'd only be able to sleep till 12:15 b/c I would have to wake him to feed him lunch before we had to go. Then he'd either be up the entire afternoon or CN, if I was lucky. I didn't want to risk it. I just laid him down again at about 2:15, so we'll see how it goes. :)
We're pretty much on the same schedule but we are getting a bit later WU's (knock on wood!). Most days it's looking like this:
6:30-ish WU (sometimes 6:15, today 6:50!)
10-10:25 nap
1:00-2:30 nap
7:00 BT
So far, this seems to be working fine. However, today is the very first day he has ever fought me on the nap. He is having a bit of separation issues, so I don't know if that's the case. Normally, he goes very willingly, but both times today he clung to me crying. I had to leave him there and, seriously, within 1 minute he was asleep. So, I think it was just the separation, not that he wasn't tired. So, yeah, a whole other issue to deal with now. ::)
He's also been really tired lately. He's teething and getting over being sick, so that probably has something to do with it. But over the weekend, I had to put him down for a nap at 9am! :o He was practically begging for it. LOL! I let him go an hour, instead. Figured he needed sleep or something.
For now, we're just going along with this schedule. If we start getting EWs again, I'm going to have to tweak it a bit. I need to start getting him to 1 nap on the days dd isn't in school. Today would have worked out 'perfect' had we not had an issue with the soccer schedule. I'll probably only let him nap 1.5, if he makes it that long, so that we can keep with the 7pm BT tonight. Seems like my kid needs more sleep that dd did at this age. He wants to sleep more during the day, so we still have a hard time getting to 1 nap. His 'A' time seems to be about 4 hours after waking in the AM, then about 2.5-3 after a 30 minute nap in the AM. We'll get there....eventually.
Honestly, if the 2 nap works for you guys and you don't get EWs, then I say keep with it until he can go longer. That's pretty much what we're doing b/c J seems to need that morning nap. I haven't tried a PM CN, so not sure if he would go for it, but I have my doubts since he isn't use to it. But IDK! If you can push that AM nap to 10 or even 10:30 and keep it 30 minutes max, then do the PM, that might help with the EW?! Heck, today he did the AM nap from 10:45-11:10 and went down again at 2:15, so we'll have to see how this works out!
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Well, today was a good day for us to attempt the 1 nap, so we did. He went down at 11:20 and was up at 1:00. :( Barely 1.5 hours. Gonna be a looooonnnng afternoon. Guess we'll be aiming for a 6:30 BT tonight.
ETA: Well, I knew I was going to jinx myself. ::) Past 2 mornings we've gotten a 5:45 WU (one morning 4:45! but got him back to sleep). Argh! We did have a wonky schedule the past few days, though. And, I attempted 1 nap yesterday which he only napped about 1 hour 40 minutes then had a 5.5 hr afternoon. I think it was a bit much. Today we'll be back to the normal 2 nap, super short AM, longer PM. So, we'll see if that helps at all.
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Girls Im a newby to the 2:1 transition, only trying it for the last week. But am I right in thinking that you all have trouble with EMorn wakings when this happens. Have 18 month textbook (touch spirited) boy that was sleeping 1.5hrs am and pm and 11 hrs night very consistently till 10days ago. have now gradually moved the napp to 12.30-1pm and bedtime 7.30 but having 5 or 6 am wakings...
Thanks for your wisdom!
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Did you just drop one nap? Or gradually shorten one till you were at 1 nap? It could be your LO is OT from the change...
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Agree sounds like some OT happening. Can you show us your EASY, before things changed? And what prompted you to just do the 1 nap? Did you get nap/BT resistance, naps shortened, NW's or EW's?
If your LO were younger I would say you may have jumped to 1 nap too quickly but at his age he *should* be able to cope with the transition a lot better than if he were say 13months.
Its pretty normal for them to get OT during the transition & is probably something you will have to ride out. Is he managing to last until 12.30pm for his nap OK? How long is he sleeping for now he's on 1 nap? If his naps are less than 2hrs he might need BT bringing a bit earlier to help mop up any OT.
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Oh thanks so much for replies, yes he started waking up after 1hr at morning nap and either resisting pm nap, waking a lot at night, so I figured it was transition time (a marathon textbook sleeper since 3 months old, consistantly, lucky us!!)
EASY prior to this was:
7./730 Wake cheerfully play in cot 20 min
7.30 Cup milk , breakfast 8.30
10/10.30 nap for 1.5 hr (wakes self, like clockwork)
Lunch 12.30
3./3.30 Nap 1.5hr (wakes self
Snack 4pm
Diinner 5.30
7.30 Wind down & milk in bedroom
Sleep before 8pm
He is managing transition v well really by day, can last to 12.30 or 1.30 without too many meltdowns, but wrecked then. Was only sleeping for 1.5-2 hrs but the last 2 days have been 2.5 hrs and today was 2 hr 50 min! (Should I have woken him? Feel he needs to catch up on the night/EM wakes)
Wrecked by 7, winddown starts then and he is in bed for 7.30.
He is crying going down at night (up with dad, melting down as I speak!) but I think its over tiredness, but scared if I put him down earlier he will wake even earlier! Waking up in the morning crying, and at night (only for 10 min last night at 2am), but v cheerful after the nap today
Thanks guys for the help
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Great that you've had some longer naps - he obviously needed to catch up. IIWM I would probably keep with nap at 12.30-1 for the time being - 6hrs A is a lot for him to manage before his nap when he has only just transitioned. Don't be scared to try EBT, esp if you have a textbook sleeper. It doesn't necessarily mean he will wake up earlier - he may surprise you & sleep til his usual wakeup time! It just gives him the opportunity to catch up, esp on a day when he does a shorter nap. WRT the really long nap, you will just have to see how he fares with this. Some LO's do take super long naps when they transition & still sleep long nights, but others will sleep a shorter night. Mine is one of the latter so I find if he sleeps 2.5hrs+ then he will always sleep less at night, so I cap his nap. I would give it a week or so to see what happens with your nights before you make that decision though - he might just have needed a bit extra to catch up on OT that was building. HTH.x
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Thanks so much Claire
He did wake twice last night at 1am, (always with crying), DH thought he had pain so brought him downstairs to get calpol, DS spent a joyful half hr running after the dogs, then went back to bed like a lamb (with NO calpol!!). Woke at 7.30.
I think ur right, will let him lead for the next week or 2 and then make changes if i need to. Unsure why he wakes so upset at night tho, room is v dark, maybe he is old enough to be afraid of dark now???
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Hi all,
I'm at a total 2:1 loss here!
For 1 week Katelyn had 1 nap days -
7.30 - Awake
1 - Nap
3.30 - Awake
7.30 - Bedtime
The day went really well but we got NW's around 9pm and 1am, at 1pm she would settle within 30 mins to 2 hours!
I reverted back to a 2 nap day and the days are sooooo long!
EASY from lastweek whilst at nursery (slept thru the night) -
7.30 - Awake
11.15 - Asleep
11.45 - Woke her up
3.15 - Asleep
3.50 - Awake
7.30 - Asleep
Today's EASY
6.30 - Awake
10.30 - Asleep
11.00 - Woke her up
2.30 - Asleep
3.45 - Woke her up
8.10 - Still awake in her cot
I am trying to see where I'm going wrong but i'm getting a bit muddled. She is fighting her naps during 2 nap days, lots of crying etc....
Any ideas ladies? x x x
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God Spleenie, Im at sea with the whole thing so no advice, but I empathise!!
I took Claires advice and put him down at 7 tonight (instead of 7.30) and we had tears and roaring, and didnt actually go to sleep till 8.15 with DH sitting in the room with him.
Im afraid of accidental parenting now with all these NW and EW as he wakes crying and wont settle unless we r in the room sitting with him. Is it right to do this, otherwise I feel he would be "crying it out"...
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Spleenie - sounds like she is telling you she wants that 1 nap. Esp if she is fighting going down in the AM after 4hrs. Difficult to say what happened that week of 1 nap. It may be the NW's were down to OT from the transition (inevitable I am afraid) although I wouldn't expect a long NW from that, OR that pushing her straight to 5.5hrs A in the AM was a bit much - hence she slept a big long nap of 2.5hrs, and with only 4hrs A to BT she was a tad UT hence the long NW. Is 2.5hrs a lot more sleep than she would ordinarily have on a 2 nap day? It looks to be. At this stage I wouldn't want to tell you to cap her nap b/c she is going to get OT with the transition. BUT if you kept getting long NW's then I would say that was the thing to do.
IIWM I would perhaps first try doing a 5hr A time to nap, rather than pushing her straight to 5.5hrs. Let her sleep (she may not do 2.5hrs but anything over 2hrs is good) & then this will give her a little longer A to BT than 4hrs. Then see how her nights go.
You can always thrown in a 2 nap day if she wakes early one day through OT - this will help to keep her to her usual BT.
newbabe - hmmmm - what did your day look like today? Did he nap well? You said he's been crying every BT right - regardless of whether it was his regular BT or EBT? What is your gut feeling - do you think UT/OT? Or that he's getting SA?
WRT sitting with him when he wakes - are you having to do this at every nap/BT/NW now? What is your BT routine like - do you put him down & walk out or do you usually stay with him until he settles? How quickly do you go into him when he NW's or starts to cry? Do you give him a few minutes first to see if he will resettle or do you go straight in?
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ooh Claire thanks for asking
Dont have to stay with him at bedtime or naptime normally, but always the NW.
I am beginning to think it is a bit of SA, but is this normal for an 18th mts old?? He has got very huggy with me and DH and shy with family recently. He never went thru the SA thing up till this
He was content to lie fairly still at 3am for an hour with me just sitting in the room, beside the cot, but crying if I made to leave. He wasnt half asleep tho IYKWIM, he was fairly awake! he woke 2 other times but 10 min did the trick. I do leave it a few mins ( maybe 3?) before going in, but usually he gets louder, not usually mantra crys, tho the odd one is.
Now he is in bed, napping for nearly 3 hrs, I think I better wake him, but sleep has been so bad at night I feel he needs this long one.
The only glitch by day is the childminder put him to bed at 2pm (8hr A!!!) on tue, and 10am Wed (3hr A) grrrr!!!!!!!!!!!!! Guess he was OT when I tried EBT at 7pm on the wed.
Its nearly a month of NW now, and they are getting longer, Im getting down about it tbh
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(((hugs))) newbabe
I am beginning to think it is a bit of SA, but is this normal for an 18th mts old??
My LO is only 15months so can't say from personal experience, but I know of another BW mama who is only just going through this with her 22month old DS for the first time so yes it can happen!
How long did he nap today in the end? It does sound like he needed it after being with the childminder. Will she follow your routine so he takes his naps at the same time as he would when he's at home?
When you say he laid awake for an hour at 3am the other night - how had he napped that day? IME OT doesn't usually cause long wide awake NW's, we usually get frequent wakings in the early part of the night & then EW. Posting your EASY for the last couple of days might help us give you some pointers.
If it helps you feel any better - we are still having fun with our transition too. DS can do mostly 1 nap days, but we do have to throw in the odd 2 nap day to stop OT from building. Yesterday I let him sleep 2.5hrs at naptime (b/c he'd had a shorter night of 11hrs the night before & mummy felt guilty) & we did 5hrs A to BT. He was UT when I put him down & took almost 30mins to settle (7.20pm) & then he was up this morning at 6am. 10h 45 sleep. Ugh! I have decided I need to cap his nap b/c this is not the first time we have had a shorter night when he has napped for this long. I am going to start at 2h 15 but am prepared to cap it at 2hrs if I need to.
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Great night last night (but he has been averaging ONE good night in 7 for the past month). 3 or 4 wake ups but only a few crys and he went back to sleep himself!! And this was after a three hr nap yesterday. The childminder minds him inn our house, but brings him to her own house for part of the day and I am thinking she is suiting herself timing his naps... another prob to overcome!!
EASY yesterday:
8am wake (late for him but had been awake 2 hrs during night)
9am bfast
11am snack
12.45-3.30 Sleep, niggled half way thru but went straight back
3.30 dinner
5.30 snack
8pm Sleep without any fuss (usually 7.30) STTN!!!!
Today
7.15 wake
8.30 b fast
11.30 big snack
12.15-3.15 sleep
3.30 dinner
6.45 snack
8pm sleep, no fuss
Thanks for all your support. Im presuming the huge sleeps today and yesterday are major catch ups, I am making the most of it!!!
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Hi...I just need to let out a little frustration.
We've been dealing with EWs for months now. We've also been sleep training, which makes it so much harder. I've received wonderful advice from the PD/PU, EASY, and Toddler Sleep boards, but we still aren't seeing much improvement.
Here's a quick bit of background - our very spirited 1yr DS has never slept independently. We started sleep training at 9mo to get rid of the prop of rocking or bouncing him to sleep. Not much success yet. We've tried adjusting our routine. He seems to be sleeping even less. We took a break from sleep training just to let him catch up on sleep. That didn't even help. I can no longer extend naps or EWs with AP.
DS averages only 9h at night. The most he has ever slept is 10h 20m, and that was only once. There are occasional NWs but they usually don't last long. EWs every day (anywhere between 4:45-6:00). I'd love for him to sleep until 7, but at this point I'm happy with 6. I tried capping his am nap to 45m for a couple weeks, but I never got a long pm nap, so now I let him sleep for as long as he wants. Even then, he only naps for 1h 15m max. Before I started capping his nap, I would get a 1.5h am nap. I was hoping he'd return to that, but I think he got use to being woken up after 45m.
Here's the routine we were shooting for, but have never gotten close to:
7:00 - wu
10:30-11:15 am nap
2:30-4:00 pm nap
8:00 bt
Here's what we usually get (I let him nap for as long as he wants, which is never very long):
5:00-6:00 wu
10:00-11:00 am nap
3:00-3:45 pm nap (I'll try to PD at 2, but he'll usually fight the whole nap; I try to extend but rarely works)
8-8:30 bt
He always wakes up crying, but it's not a reflection of his mood, he just wants to be taken out of crib. I nurse him as soon as he wakes up (except if EW is before 6). Then he's happy. He's almost always happy, which is great, but he must be OT. He rarely acts tired or gives sleepy cues. I know I should move his BT earlier, but I can't get him to fall asleep earlier. Once a week, we visit GPs, and leave at 7:00 and I always hope he'll fall asleep in the car, but he never does.
This morning, he woke at 4:50. I tried PD, ssh/pat, then gave up and tried to hold him...nothing worked. By 6, I was so frustrated, I didn't even want to feed him. My DH took over, and was able to get him to fall asleep after 20 minutes, but he rubbed his back the whole time. He woke up after 30m, at which point I had calmed down enough to nurse him. DH takes care of most EWs but I try on the days he works because he is a police officer with 12.5h shifts.
I don't know what to do...DS just doesn't like to sleep. No matter what I do (take him for a walk, car ride, or even rock him) I can't get him to sleep earlier or longer. He only averages 11h total of day+night sleep. I know that's what most LOs get just at night.
Ugh...where do I go from here? Should I try capping his am nap again, this time down to 30m? Should I move his am nap later? He's already averaging 4.5h morning A time.
Sorry for the long rant. Thanks for listening.
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Hiya samIam - welcome to the 2-1. much (((hugs))) & sympathy on the EW - I too have a LO who likes to get up early (5.40am today).
How old is your LO? 12 months?
Looking at your EASY, I think he probably isn't tired when you try to PD at 2pm (only 3hrs A after a 1hr nap) which is why he is fighting. And given that he is only sleeping for 45mins when he eventually does sleep at 3pm I'd say that confirms it. Like you say, BT probably does need to be earlier too, as a 4h 15 A time after a 45min nap is likely to be making him OT at BT, which in turn may well be the cause of your EW.
I think he's well on the way to 1 nap & may even be ready, but it will be hard to put him straight onto 1 nap with the EW.
So.... IIWM I would first try capping that AM nap to 30mins, and shoot for PM nap around 2.5-3hrs after he wakes. I don't think capping to 45mins will make enough of a difference. Hopefully he will take a really decent PM nap. And I do think you need to try & get that BT a bit earlier if you can. So your EASY would look something like:
Wake: ? 5-6am
Nap: 10.00-10.30
Nap: 1/1.30-2.30/3.30 (1.5-2hrs)
BT: 7/7.30
I would give it a fair try of at least a week, possibly 2, and see if it helps to pull his wakeup later.
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Thanks for your reply, Claire.
DS is 12.5 months. I have been thinking about capping the AM nap to 30m, but have been too scared to try it. I'm worried he still won't take a long PM nap...but I'll never know until I try.
This morning he woke up at 5:45 clearly awake and happy after a 9.5h night. He stopped crying the minute I walked into his room and when I patted the mattress and told him to lie back down, he just sat down and started to pat the mattress, too! So we started our day at 6. His AM nap was 10-11, then I thought he was tired by 2 because he was very clingy (sometimes when he is tired, he just wants to be held). I got him down at 2:15, but he woke up at 2:45. He was screaming, but I couldn't get him to go back to sleep, so I took him into the living room. He was still fussy and crying 30m later, so I held him in his dark room, and he fell back to sleep from 3:25-4:20. I have no idea what that means. I assume I misread his clinginess as sleepiness...it was probably SA instead, and he was actually UT at 2:15. But I'm surprised he fell asleep again at 3:25. BT tonight was 8:15. I hope after that late odd nap, he shouldn't be OT at BT.
I'll try to follow the EASY you suggested starting tomorrow. I'll let you know how it goes.
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Sounds like he was OT yesterday - the 30min nap is usually indicative of that. I'd say if he was UT then he really wouldn't have gone back to sleep. My guess is that the short nights will be catching up on him & so its great that he had that extra nap & hopefully that will have meant he went down at BT less OT.
If you are worried about capping the AM nap at 30mins you can always start with 45mins, but I am worried that it won't be enough of a cut to get you a decent PM nap IYSWIM? The choice is yours though. FX'd for tomorrow!
If it helps to know you're not alone....we are in same boat this morning with a 9h 50 night & 5.10am WU but caused by opposite reason - too much day sleep yesterday! He was up at 5.30am, held him out till 11.30am for his nap & he slept 2.5hrs. I forgot to tell his Grandma to cap his nap & so this is what we get this morning. If its not one thing its another!
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Hi everyone! Just found out that there is a 2-1 thread in Toddler Sleep - OOPS!
We are doing quite well after a month of doing one nap most days and the odd two nap day to catch up when needed. This is our typical day:
Wake 630am
Nap 1130-130
BT 7pm. STTN.
ETA - I jinxed myself - she just woke at 1pm :-\
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I don't want to get my hopes up, but we had an amazing day!
5:50 WU (that wasn't amazing, but hopefully that will change)
10:20-10:50 AM nap (took 20m to settle, woke him up)
1:50-3:50 PM nap (this is the longest he has EVER napped!)
8:15 BT
I'm curious to see what tomorrow will bring...
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Ugh...5:30 WU after our amazing day. Maybe the PM nap was too late and too long. He did have a brief NW at 9:10, and was very wiggly all night, ended up facing sideways with his back leaning against the top of the crib. I wonder if that means UT or OT? Maybe 4h 25m of A time before BT following a 2h nap isn't long enough? We'll just have to keep trying and see if his naps are consistent and his EWs improve.
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Samiam I wonder if that pm nap went too late in the day. I you capped it at say 3.30 he may have slept better overnight? :-\ I know for Z to go down at 7.30 we have naps over by 2.30pm.
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Agree with Sara. We have same problem here if we don't do long enough A to BT. Great that he took a long nap though! Stick with it, all will come good!
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Same here - no napping after 230pm in this house... that puts BT at 730/745pm. I really like to have a nap done by 2pm :)
All I have to say about today: Bring on tomorrow. Time for a do-over.
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Thanks for all your replies, but unfortunately our poor little guy has a cold. He woke up a couple times last night, nose stuffy and running. Woke up 5:30 this morning. I figure I'll let him nap when he wants and for as long as he wants while he's sick. On the bright side, his naps were good today...he woke up himself, coughing, from his AM nap after 30m, but he took a 1h 30m PM nap.
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Oh no - poor Sam :( And yes, I agree, let him nap when he wants and how long he needs. Get better soon little man!
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Well, we seem to be back on track (Im gulping writing this as fraid of jinxing!!!). DS is napping at 12.15 for 2-3 hrs for the past week, and more or less STTN for 5 nights now!! Mantra crys most nights but is settling himself after 5 min or so Fingers, toes, you name it crossed!! I do give him a firly substantial snack at 11.30 (as in 2 boiled eggs today) as he has lunch when he wakes at 3ish.
Claire, thanks for your advice and support xx
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Excellent!
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so I feel like the worst mom ever... DD has been short napping (max 90 mins) for three days now and her nights are just getting to 11 hours... figured it out this morning that it's a tooth coming... really swollen. Gave her meds before her nap and got a lovely 2 hrs 20 mins. And she is just happily chatting in there now :)
Bad mommy.
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newbabe - yippee!!! Well that was a quick & easy transition you lucky thing!!! Hope all continues to sail smoothly for you.
Kara - don't feel bad hun, sometimes these things really aren't obvious. :-*
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Hi everyone! I was thinking about all of you and your kiddos and wanted to check in! :) How is everyone?!
We have successfully moved to one nap. Thank goodness!! With that, EW's have pretty much ceased. (Knock on wood, right?!). Jack's schedule looks pretty much like this most days:
7:00am wake
12:00-1:30/2 (when dd's home from school)
12:30-2 (when dd's in school)
7:00pm bt
It's working out really well! And he's tolerating it just fine. Once in a while, he'll nod off in the car around 10:30/10:45 if we're running errands, but I just let it go since we're usually on the way home. ;) But for the most part, he does well with the 5 hours A time. We worked so hard to get there and seemed to take him forever. He wasn't able to to it until about 15 months. And it took vacation to force him to go on one nap - LOL! For all those that are struggling...hang in! They will 'get it' soon enough!
Hope everyone is doing well!
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Hi
I wonder if anyone can help?
We've been struggling with 2-1 for what seems like forever, but is really about 6 weeks, with an episode of illness in between.
I've posted on toddler sleep a few times, but here seems to be a more sensible place for my particular problem.
Here's the thing I don't get - it seems to be that DS, 13MO, can do about 4 he's A time between waking in the morning and a nap. Naps were the magic 45 minutes when on 2 naps, and often are on 1. However occasionally we've got 1hr 25 ish.
Here's the question - he's just waking up now, so that means 11.30 nap. An odd lunch time eat, but can deal with that. Then what? Even if he sleeps 1hr 30, that's still a long time until 7 bedtime.
Yesterday he woke 7.45, nap 12 to 1.30, sleep by 7. He was tired by 5.30, and grizzly at last bottle.
Worried about early BT as if he wakes earlier the next day, that moves the 4 hr A then nap even earlier, then he's even more tired for the rest of the day!
That's the bit I don't get. How do you deal with it?
Sorry to ramble - so confused!
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Welcome!
Is he prone to early starts at all?
To be in the 1 nap stage, LO really needs to be pushed to 4.5 hrs first thing for it to work... Don't be scared of EBT! Many babies will tack on lost sleep during the 2-1 when they never would have before as long as the nap is pushed late enough.
When I moved DD to one nap - the first day I decided to start - the little bugger woke at 545am! Pushed her to 1130am anyways... I really tried to keep BT set at 7pm as well and didn't put down for a nap before 11am (her average wake time was 615am). If she did a short nap (less than 2 hours) I would keep things low key for the rest of the day and keep her up until 645pm...
If you do hit the OT wall, sneak a 2 nap day in using a very short 15-20 mins in the AM before 10am and then PD for afternoon nap around 1230/1pm and let him sleep as long as he likes to get rid of OT, adjust BT but no later than 8pm.
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Thanks
Ok maybe I need to go back to basics - how do I know he's ready for going to 1 nap?
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Hi Ladies,
I haven't been on the board in a little while but I am running into a little problem. It has been going on about a month and now I figured is a good time to finally figure it out. DS finally started sleeping through the night about a month ago at 13 months...this coincided with weaning. I presume he was using me as a pacifier all night, sound familiar?
Anyway, soon after this Ds would still go down for his nap after 3 hours of A time in the morning, sleep for about an hour and then go down after another 3 hours of A time for about another 1.5 hours. The problem now though is that we had to limit the first nap to 30 minutes because he was refusing to go down for his second nap. So we put him down after about 3 hours, 3 hours 15, he sleeps for about 30 minutes and we put him down after another 3/3 and a half hours after his first nap. He then sleeps for about 1 and a half hours.
This usually results in him waking at about 345-4, going down for the night around 730-745 and an early waking around 615.
Oh, the biggest problem. It takes me an HOUR to put him down for his second nap, and about 20 minutes for his first nap. I still rock him...I don't want to do cio. I rocked my first son for 22 months and he never really had this problem..so i dont think its related. I would appreciate any help or suggestions! We tried two days of one nap at around 12 and he was a mess...he woke up continuously for the whole 2 hours. Please let me know what you think! Thank you!
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Cyndie - YAY J!!!! So you managed it even despite the school run then?! Are you capping his nap at 1.5hrs or is that just what he sleeps?
We are still battling on, with a new EW problem. O is well & truly on 1 nap, but b/c we started from EW, we have nap at 11-11.30. I keep trying to shift it later & after a couple of weeks of improvement we get hit by EW again & we're back to square one. I think his A's are increasing again & this may be what's causing his WU getting even earlier. Back at 5.30am. Of course b/c of shorter iffy nights he sleeps a longer nap of around 2hrs. So.... I am thinking we need to get our nap to something like yours. How the heck did you push it so much later??? J was napping at 10am ish wasn't he? Did you just keep him up one day & stay with it for a week or 2 ??? Am just thinking this may just shock O into it rather than trying the gradual approach b/c it takes sooooo long that by the time we're getting close to where we need to be his sleep needs have changed again!
Oceanmagic - have you read the 2-1 stickys?
If he's taking a long time to fall asleep at the AM nap, or resisting his PM nap, the PM nap has shortened or his nights have shortened with EW &/or NW, they are the usual signs that the AM nap needs to go. HTH.xx
dancer1007 - it sounds like he might not be *quite* tired enough at naptime, esp at that PM nap since its taking 1hr to fall asleep. If you don't feel he's ready to make the jump you could try shortening that AM nap a bit more - maybe try 20mins? You could always push it a tad later too - so its 9.40-10 rather than 9.15/9.30. The A time before that PM nap should shorten a touch too, maybe try 2.75-3hrs as a start. This will bring the PM nap earlier, therefore increasing the A time to BT which may help him sleep a longer night. If you do feel he is ready you can make the jump to 1 nap, but perhaps start with nap at 11/11.30 instead of pushing him all the way to 12 as that is quite a long A time when he's not used to it. Once he's used to it you can push nap later. When you first make the jump to 1 nap, LO's can get very tired/OT so if naps are short for a while, EBT often helps. And if he is struggling you can always throw in the odd 2 nap day to keep OT at bay.
ETA. I also meant to say, if you are usually able to rock him at naptime & he's not waking at night needing to be resettled in this way then the rocking isnt a problem. But if he is depending on you to help him fall asleep bc he doesnt know how to then I'd say that its become a prop & may be worth considering some sleep training to help him sleep independently. HTH.x
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I still rock him...I don't want to do cio.
There are other more gentle ways to teach independent sleep - no CIO needed. If you don't want to do this, not to worry. BW is based on baby learning to sleep independently for naps and BT, but I know that a baby can sleep fine with rocking to sleep as well (not all babies though!). Mine still STTN if she is rocked to sleep ;)
I wouldn't jump to 12pm for a nap right away - that's a huge change and I'm not surprised in the least that you landed in the land of OT so quickly.
Few things: 730-615 does not count as an EW. An EW is less than 10 hours of nightsleep and doesn't relate to the time of day specifically (though I agree that 615 is a touch early!)
I would put him down for a nap after 4.5 or 5 hours of A time and see what happens :) Just try to keep the morning low key as best you can to avoid OS. If he does a good 2 hr + nap, you can do 5 hrs to BT and should be well on your way to one nap... if he wakes after less than 2 hrs, keep things low key and do EBT.
Thanks
Ok maybe I need to go back to basics - how do I know he's ready for going to 1 nap?
He will be waking early in the morning (shorter than typical nights) and will be difficult to put down for one of his two naps each day :)
I understand your concern about a nap of 1 hr 30 mins, but can assure you that he will lengthen that one nap as long as he has enough A time before you put him down... I would start by pushing for at least 4.5 hrs A time in the morning.
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Thanks Kara! I don't think it is a crutch the rocking, only because he goes to sleep independently for dh and is putting himself back to sleep when he startles at night etc. Mainly he just takes advantage of me and I let him ha! I did put him down tonight without rocking to see if he would do it and it was a success! I will try a shorter first nap tomorrow and see if that helps and will try putting him down a little earlier for his second nap. I will keep you all posted! Thanks so much!
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Good luck! I don't worry about rocking my DD either - I did it for a few months when she was new and it's never really been an issue...
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I understand your concern about a nap of 1 hr 30 mins, but can assure you that he will lengthen that one nap as long as he has enough A time before you put him down... I would start by pushing for at least 4.5 hrs A time in the morning.
Thanks Kara, that makes sense. Do I stretch this A time gradually or just go for it? We were having a bit of time where he could do 4 hrs, but then when he did sleep it was only 45 mins, so by the end of the day he was shattered.
My concern about doing EBT in that situation is that he may wake earlier, then bringing the 4 hr A earlier in the day, meaning that either its an even earlier BT, repeating the cycle, or he needs another sleep to get him to BT.
That said, I'm not totally sure that he's ready for 2-1. I've gone back to 2 sleeps from yesterday, just to get some evidence to see exactly when he doesn't want to sleep, and am taking it from there.
I was so tired of fighting him to do something that I didn't really understand (have ordered the Toddler book, so with that and you lovely people I'll be more prepared next time!), and was getting cross with him for not sleeping 'properly'. Maybe he's just not ready. He did 3-2 transition like a dream, he just stopped falling asleep around 4.30-5, and wasn't bothered by that longer A time before bed.
Don't want to feel like I'm giving up on him, and can't bear thinking that I might not be doing what's best for him, but I've got to listen to him too right???? I hope so!
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LO's usually know what they need - but not always!
Just remember that sometimes when he yawns and acts tired, it could be his body clock. When a baby has always napped at 9am, their body will get tired at that time, even when they aren't tired enough to take a good nap = clear as mud? 45 min naps are almost always UT, meaning you should have kept him up longer to get a good nap.
RE: do you just jump in and keep him up or do it slowly... I am a ruthless mom when A times increase - I just do it and stick to it come hell or high water ;) But, my baby is a textbook/angel and does really well with OT. If you have the same, go for it. If not, do it in 10 min jumps every 3 days.
RE: EBT fears. My DD was a 10 hour night sleeper from 4 months until she moved to one nap. I was terrified of EBT! There were a few nights I had to put her to bed at 645pm and I totally thought we would be up at 445am and be in a complete mess... well, she has never done that to me since moving to one nap. She never tacked on lost day sleep until we went to one nap. Now, it's rare for her to sleep less than 11 hrs.
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Thanks. Like you say - clear as mud!
Yesterday he went down at usual 9.20 and slept 1 hr 15, with 40 mins around 2.
Today he really crashed at 9.20, crying, eye rubbing etc, so I put him down; he slept for 20 mins! Had to go out in car, he had 40 mins at 11.30.
Guessing he'll need another sleep later.
All very confusing. He's still a bit poorly, coughing overnight, so not sure if he's right enough to enforce one later sleep.
Thanks for reassurance re EBT. Got to get braver I suppose. He'll do 12+ hr nights sometimes.
Hm. Still not sure where we are...
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He's still a bit poorly, coughing overnight, so not sure if he's right enough to enforce one later sleep.
I would hold off until he is feeling better - coughing at night would make me think he isn't sleeping very well overnight and will need 2 naps to catch up during the day. Poor muffin :(
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Thanks. I'd agree, he's not quite himself.
I'll be back when he's better!
Merry Christmas.x
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Merry Christmas to you too :)
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We've made the 2:1 transition!!!! ;D
Our EASY -
8.00 - Wake
1.00 - Nap
2.30 - Wake Up
7.30 - Bedtime
Since going on the 2:1 wake up's in the morning are that little bit later.
Good luck to all those who are still on this napping journey! There is a light at the end of the tunnel x x x
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Excellent! Just a warning that your nights may shorten a bit once she completely adapts to one nap :) Most LO's drop back to an 11hr night :)
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How long does it take for them to settle into a new routine? Katelyn has been on this new routine for 3 weeks now x x x
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Mine took a good 6-8 weeks to settle into it :)
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So if her nights become shorter will she have to go back to a 2 nap day again? x x x
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hp evry1 had a gd xmas. We have been away 4a wk and will need a few days at home b4 we know where we are on 2-1. Curently its 10pm and LO is awake and screaming...
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Spleenie - no - just many LO's who are taking a 2hr+ night just dont need more than 11hrs at night. Many mums seem to find that after a few months LO starts to need a bit extra A - making the day a bit longer (& night gets a bit shorter). Having said that, your LO is napping 1.5hrs - are you waking her or is she waking herself? You may find that with the slightly shorter nap you may be lucky & keep the longer nights.
j.and.e we had a lovely xmas thanks. Hope your LO settles soon.x
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I wake her, if she sleeps passed 2.30pm she has a REALLY unsettled night as she is U/T x x x
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Well I think you'll be just fine then. Enjoy your 12hr+ nights!!!!
We're stuck on 10-10.5hrs with a 2hr nap & I think I need to start nap cutting too. But b/c of EW he has always napped early like 11am so I am currently in process of pushing it out & I wanted to do this first to make sure its not just the timing of the nap that's the problem. We're currently at 11.45am & I think in reality I need to have O napping at 12.30-1pm. We're finding it very tough - he is incredibly OT & his naps are shorter & nights are getting more restless. Am hoping that with consistency he will start to adjust soon.
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Aw Claire, how do you cope with the EW's?! I've read your posts over the months and i REALLY feel for you! You cope really well tho! Hope things settle for you both soon.
Do you work? x x x
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Its not easy. When he was younger & waking at 3-4am wanting to be up for the day I had to sleep in the day when he slept b/c I just couldn't function otherwise. I got very depressed. But I got through it. And we did get out of the early wake/early nap/early BT cycle when he was 11/12 months & realised what life should have been like for us & it gave me hope! OK so we're back here atm, but I'm hanging onto the hope we'll get out of it again. I also realise he is an earlybird by nature. So am I tbh, but I like to see a 6 on the clock & not a 5!!!
He's been very restless at naptime today. After a 5.30am WU, he was asleep at 11.55, woke at 30mins, 1hr, 1.5hrs, 1h 40 & 1h 50. Am just waiting for him to wake properly at the 2hr mark, or I will wake him. And even though it was restless, that was the longest nap we've had all week so I'm pleased. Now means I have to shoot for a later BT in order to effect a later WU. I'll just die if we go with a 7pm BT & he wakes at 5.30am again. Maybe I should try for 7.30pm but I am worried given how early he got up that too long a day is worse than not enough A before BT. What do you think - do I push the day regardless?
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I am no expert at all hun but I am wondering what would happen if you let him have a 2.5 hour nap and then a 7.30 bedtime? x x x
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Hiya hun. I only just read this - we got him up after 2hrs. I'd love to give him 2.5hrs but sadly 2.5hr naps = 10hr nights here. Its just too much daysleep. And if I did 2.5hr nap he'd not be tired enough for bed after just 5hrs. He's not really tired enough for bed with 5hrs A after a 2hr nap these days. I am finally realising he has always been lower than average sleep needs. I think deep down I've always known but just reluctant to admit.
He was very very tired tonight so asleep at 7.05pm. Am hoping we get an 11hr night but bit worried it will only be 10.5. We're in a bit of a vicious cycle here - he's getting OT from the long days/long A to nap time so nap is shortening (today excepted), which makes it difficult to extend his A time to BT, but I think this is what he really needs in order to get a later WU.
I am staying with the plan to keep nap at midday & start pushing BT later by 15mins each week until its 7.30pm & then I will live in hope!
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My LO is having lots of NWs atm and am not sure if its settling back after our hols, prop rellated (handholding) or OT from short naps. Its a 1nap day 2day so lets see how we go xx
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Hi ladies, just looking for some advice on how to get over OT ? We are doing 20min AM nap at 10am and then PM nap at 1.15. This second nap has been short lately, 30mins! He does have a cold so not sure if it is cold ot OT. Any way, I can't get him to sleep longer, EBT means he wakes 12hrs later so like 6am, and 2 naps often means 2x30/45 min naps.
How can I get him over the OT?
I though about dropping the 20min nap to maybe force him to sleep longer in the afternoon, but I am worried that will make OT worse. Also his childminder can't do his nap til 12.30, and if we are having to do EBT and then he wakes at 6am, how do I get him to a 12.30 nap? That is a massive jump.
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Gemma - I would move his AM nap back to 930 and wake at 1015 for one day and see what happens... You might not be able to get PM nap until closer to 2pm but he likely wouldn't sleep longer than 90 mins as his body clock will rouse him a bit, KWIM?
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Hi Kara, thanks for replying. In the end I let him do what he wanted and for me he did 2x30min naps and then the next day for the CM he did 1hr25 and 40mins!
I am going to keep letting him catch up for a couple of days if I can then go for the 1 nap. Just got to fit timings round the CMs school runs. It would be so much easier if I could stay home with him.
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LOL! Cheeky monkey sleeping so well for the CM! I would bet he just tires himself out more there - are there other kids to play with?
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Hi ladies
I have been reading through posts for a few weeks now to try and sort out both my LOs sleeping, i have a neally 14 month old and a 2.5 year old and both dropping naps, arrhhhh.
I hope that doing it all once dropping from 2-1 nap with DD1 i maybe able to offer some advice along the way, she always did a long am nap and short pm and i remember the week she went to one nap successfully at 15 months old and we got back to 7-7 sleeping with two hour nap, i really can't wait to get to this with DD2 and hope you all get it too very soon.
DD2 though is a different story as i cannot just stay in all morning waiting for the exact A times and be able to pop in the car to AP a short nap or add a cat nap so i am sruggling.
Our routine had been working 30 min nap between 9.30 and 10 i woke her and then pm nap - 1.30 for 1h30 minutes.
Then she resisted her pm nap untill neally 2.00 which ment on childminder day she had to be up at 3 for school run and so messed her up.
I changed to 20 min am nap at 9.40 usually as this fits in with toddler groups, music group ect and walks home from playgroup. Pm nap at 1.15 for 1h45 and betime 7.15 waking 7 or later
Sadly i think i missed my point where i should have dropped that am nap and she got sick so we had EW ( well for us ) 6.15 sometimes 6.30. Now i just dont know how to move things back, as she is up early she can't make to one nap day and as she keeps having am nap she wakes early in morning, or pm nap goes wrong often 1.10 and so early bedtime meaning more EW.
Yesturday i read your post Kara about bring am nap early to 9.30 letting her do 45 mins and later pm and as home in afternoon i thought i could work, exept she woke herself at 25 minutes and wanted an early pm 12.30 for 1h 20, tried early bedtime but she played untill 7.35 and awake 6.30.
I have just wrote a huge essay i ma sorry but does anyone have any ideas where i go to get back on track and get to one nap soon. DD1 is dropping her nap too so if she doesn't nap in day we cannot go out in car or pram after 3 just to make it more a pain)
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Hi Kara, yes he has other kids to play with so I think he does get more worn out!
We are doing 1 nap today - arh!
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dijjibob - if you want to just go for it I'd say shoot for nap at 11.30 - let her sleep as long as she wants & you may need to pull BT a wee bit earlier for a while - then in a coupl of weeks once she's used to it you can start to gradually push nap & BT back out.
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Thank you for advice. Yesterday she had a catch up day at cm with 20 min nap in am A two hour pm and nearly 12 hour night so went have tried a one nap today, one hour so far so my fingers are crossed. How did everyone else's day and night go.
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We are all messd up with 1st wk of nursery. We have been getting ok nites 6pm-5ish, but naps are totally wild! Last nite 1 nw at 3.30, i suspect OT/cold, but A times are pretty low (as he's getting massively tired). The gd news is we broke the handholding 2sleep prop with wi.wo last wk! Xx
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Grrrrrrr >:( all was going well but things have gone a tad pear shaped.
When Katelyn was having a 2 hr nap during the day we were getting a NW which lasted 2 hrs, we reduced her nap to 1 hour and she was sleeping thru for 12 hrs.
Now she waking up 45 mins after we put her to bed at bedtime, lastnight she was awake for 2 hrs.
I have no idea if i should be letting her nap for longer or shorter ???
Any ideas?
Her EASY (it was working)
7.30 - awake
1pm - Nap
2p, - Woke her up otherwise she would have a 2 hr NW
7.30 - Bedtime
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I would be more inclined to say waking 45 minutes after going to bed is OT as always was with DD1 although DD2 will be 30 minutes. Not sure this is advice that is okay with BW but if I didn't intervene when DD1 woke on an OT night she would cry but resettle herself. If I went in it would kind off disturb her and it turned into like taking a lay nap and would need A time before she could go back to sleep. Could you give a longer nap maybe 1.5, or earlier bt with the shorter nap. I am sorry didn't use your user name but on phone and don't know how to go back to check without loosing the message.
Lo took a 2 hour nap today after 5 hour nap although a little disturbed and then bedtime 5 hours later fingers crossed.
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Thanks for your reply :)
I left her to cry for a good 15/20 mins lastnight before I went in, she stayed awake for 2 hrs. I thought if she was O/T she wouldnt have stayed awake for that long,
I think I might try the 1.5 hr nap if things continue the way they are.
Why oh why are these babies sooooo complicated?
I hope you have a settled night :) x x x
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I left her to cry for a good 15/20 mins lastnight before I went in, she stayed awake for 2 hrs.
was your Dd mantra crying or grizzling on and off or crying for you? If she is crying can you use WI/WO or GW to try to help yet her to sleep. BW does not Support CiO or CC in any form.
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Her EASY (it was working)
7.30 - awake
1pm - Nap
2p, - Woke her up otherwise she would have a 2 hr NW
7.30 - Bedtime
I think you have just gotten to the point that a 12 hr night is just not reality anymore... waking 45 mins after BT is OT for sure. She is at that point that she still needs a good nap to handle a decent A time.. but robbing her of day sleep to get a good long night just causes OT buildup from the lack of good sleep during the day to let her properly restore herself.
You might find that you are better with something like this:
Wake 7am
Nap - 1230 - 230
BT 8pm.
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Thanks for your replies :)
I too dont agree with CIO or CC hence I went into her after 15 mins as it was obvious that she needed me and wasnt going to resettle on her own as she was grizzling all the time, I dont think rushing in straight away is really the way to go all the time.
I began "robbing" her of her daytime sleep as when she was having a 2 hour nap she was waking up at 2.30am wanting to play for 2 hours.
Yesterday's EASY -
7.30 - Wake up
1.10 - Nap
2.10 - Woke her up
7.30 - Bedtime
7.45 - Asleep
8.30 - Woke up and then resettled after 10 mins with DH cuddling her
She woke up at 7.50 this morning x x x
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I agree rushing in doesn't always help, and if your LO wasn't crying an I need you cry but moaning and grizzling holding back to see if they can resettle is fine. BW does not believe in CCor CiO in any form so I had to check this wasn't being discussed on the boards sorry Hun :-*
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Hi ladies I sorry I didn't mean leave baby crying for ages, I just don't rush in straight away, I have a video monitor and can see if my Los are sitting or standing At cot crying or crying in a way I know they are going to settle.
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Spleenie - agree with Kara you might have to accept a slightly shorter night since it does look like she is getting OT with only a 1hr nap. If a later BT doesn't sort our your NW, perhaps a compromise is 1.5hr nap? Whichever you try I would do it for a good couple of weeks to see what effect it has, before you make any more changes.
7.30am WU
1.00/1.30 - 2.30/3 Nap
7.30/8pm BT
This is something I am considering now as our night's are 10-10.5hrs - DS has a 2hr nap. We've pushed everything later & are still getting a short night so I am now looking at cutting nap back to 1.5hrs & hoping this will lengthen the night. As Kara says I think if nap is *too* short then its just not restorative enough for her to cope with the 5hrs A to BT. HTH.x
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Thankyou, will go with the 1.5 hr nap and see how we get on.
Let me get this straight ... signs of O/T are waking up 45 mins after going to sleep and U/T can cause longer NW's which can last hours? x x x
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Yes. OT often causes early evening WU's in the first couple of hours after BT, but can also cause restless early mornings & EW. But then UT can cause EW too! Its so tricky! I think really if you get crying NW's its more likely OT whereas happy playing NW's more likely UT. HTH.xx
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Okay, so its 2.50am and Katelyn is nearly settling to go back to sleep after a 2hr NW.
Her EASY was -
7.45 - Woke up
1.10 - Nap
2.20 - Woke her up
7.45 - Asleep
9.10 - Woke up and resettled herself
12.45 - Woke up crying and then began chattering
2.45 - Settling to go back to sleep
I dont know if she's UT or OT ??? x x x
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Okay, so its 2.50am and Katelyn is nearly settling to go back to sleep after a 2hr NW.
Her EASY was -
7.45 - Woke up
1.10 - Nap
2.20 - Woke her up
7.45 - Asleep
9.10 - Woke up and resettled herself
12.45 - Woke up crying and then began chattering
2.45 - Settling to go back to sleep
I dont know if she's UT or OT ??? x x x
OT. Without question. She is waking up and resettling then also waking and needing you to get back to sleep.
A one hour nap is not enough. I would give her 90 mins as a nap, then push BT if needed.
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We have been trying out one nap days first day 5 hour A then two hour nap then 5 Hour A bedtime with twelve hour night yeh. yesterday had to be a two nap as had to go to grandparents and no way to keep her awake on journey. Today she woke at 5.20 for about 15 minutes just rolling around then back to sleep until 7.15. I thought great for one nap day but she fell asleep at lunch 4.45 A time and have just had 1 hour 40, early night tonight will hopefully correct lack of sleep but do you think wa am UH or OT nap, she was obviously ready for nap so maybe more OT.
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Thankyou Kara :)
I just thought that the 2hr NW were a sign of UT, so confusing!
She woke at 8.30am this morning, thought i would let her wake when she was ready due to the long NW. She had a nap at 12.45 - 2.15 and then a bedtime of 7.45 .... just had a little cry from her 1 hr after bedtime so will see how the night goes x x x
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Agree with Kara hun. She's only just transitioned recently hasn't she? 1hr is pretty short for her age. Someone did also mention on a thread I was on the other day that most LO's wake up 4hrs after BT - I never knew that but may explain the 12.45wu. She may have stayed awake b/c she is so OT she can't resettle IYSWIM???
Sounds like today went a little better. Hope you have a good night.
dijjibob - hard to say - but think when we first started with 1 nap days a 1h 40nap was usually OT. As was anything under 2hrs really! The early morning wakening may well be a sign that OT is creeping in & I'm afraid its pretty unavoidable during this transition.x
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Your right Claire, they stir during the night every 3-4 hours, these are the times they are vulnerable to pain NW, Ut/OT NW and needing props to resettle if they stir and are used to Irving cuddled etc to sleep. the cry outs are also an OT sign...confusing right!?
I agree with Kara too Hun, if she has just transitioned try to let her nap as long as she likes if you can, a good 2 hrs should give her a chance of not being OT by BT.
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Thanks for replies! We had a NW at midnight for 2.5 hours, crying, then wanting to play! Then she cried out at 6am x x x
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Hi all. I've been reading the thread and you guys have some really great advice so I was hoping to jump in with our 2:1 problems. Our 17.5 mo DD slept great when we started PU/PD at 6 mo all the way until now. Her schedule went all wonky at Christmas so when we got home we tried to put her on 1 nap instead as she was starting to refuse 2 naps. We tried for 2 weeks consistently and now we don't know which way is up. Our DD has started waking an hour after we put her to bed and she won't let us leave the room, a bit of SA? She'll be awake in her crib for almost 2 hours while we sit in her room and cries if we try to leave. Lately she'll have 4-5 NW's. She's also starting EW at 4:30, so she is getting almost no sleep. She got sick last week so we went back to 2 naps, but it isn't working well. Do we go back to 1 nap and throw in an occasional second nap to help with OT? She is turning into a totally different person because she is so OT. She used to sleep 7:30-7:30 with no NW or resettled quickly after we put the blankets back on.
Her 1 nap EASY that we tried for
7:10 wake
11:30-1:30 (ideally wanted 12-2)
7:30 BT
Tried WI/WO but I read somewhere that is doesn't work for SA, should we keep trying? My DH and I are exhausted after a month of sleeping on her floor or chair, we desperately need to get this sorted.
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Urgh! Hope everyones well :)
Katelyn is now waking at 6.30am, this isnt a problem as quite a few of you said that her night sleep would decrease. I'm just finding the new routine really difficult, especially when DD goes to nursery.
Any ideas of how her EASY should go with this earlier WU time? Thanking you x x x
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Hi :) My LO is 1 4 days :D
We've currently got a 30min AM nap and a good 2hr PM nap but i can't get her to go down for a AM nap earlier than 3hr 45mins A time, and she's then needing a 3hr 50min A time before the PM nap to sleep for 2hrs. So our days are getting longer than 12 hours.
We've been playing around and trying to get a good PM nap longer than 1.5hr and have managed that for the past 2 days. Lastnight we only had 2 NWs which was great as we normally have 4-5 NWs. But today she totally refused to go down for her AM nap, i tried a few times and she finally fell asleep after 4hr 10min A time. She was awake for the day at 7.25am and fell asleep at 11.35am. I'm now not sure what to do, Do i wake her after 30mins like normal or do i let her sleep and hope she has a 2hr nap and then EBT. x
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Jem,
I am no expert but from what I have read here it sounds like your LO is nearly ready to ditch that AM nap..once they can stay up to 1130 if you can get a 2hr nap an then EBT soon after 6pm then I think its better for them, rather than waking from this late AM nap and trying for a PM......will make a very late BT
Good luckx
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Thanks :) I didn't wake her after 30mins and she's currently been sleeping for 1hr 45mins, she did stir and make a little noise at the 1hr 25min mark but didn't wake. I'm thinking if she can get to the 2hr mark that's great only 15mins to go. I'm hoping she'll sleep a little longer than 2hrs but 2hr's is a great start as i really thought she'd wake after an hour. x
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My LO can't do more than 4hr 5-10mins but if i try and do a short 30mins AM and a long 2-2.5hr PM we have longer days than 12hr. I tried a long 1 nap today and she did a 2hr nap but woke up on the 2hr mark. Today has been:
7th feb.
7.25am - up.
11.35am - nap. A time 4hr 10mins.
1.35pm - up. 2hr.
5.45pm - bed. A time 4hr 5mins.
She was getting grumpy and eye rubbing by 5.00pm so i did bath and bed. Whatever time she goes to bed she's up 11.5-12hr later so i'm guessing she'll be up around 5.30-6am (with maybe a few NWs too) in the morning and i don't think she'll stay up till 11.30am for the 1 long nap. x
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Jem,
she just might surprise you with a long sleep, my guy has been doing some long nights during this 2-1, previously 11.5 hrs was fab!
Have a good night
x
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She slept 2 hours exactly, i then had her in bed for 5.45pm she was yawning and eye rubbing like mad at 4.30pm. She then woke every 20-30mins :( so she ended up in our bed at 8.00pm then was awake messing around from 12.00pm - 1.20am - disaster! lol. She defo still needs the 30min AM nap even tho we'll have a few long days for a while. :) x
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Hi all,
New to this thread, having hung out on the babies 2-1 one for the last 6 months or so! On the brink of introducing 1 nap days, which I hope to start trying next week when we're both off work and at home, otherwise he's at the childminder's 3 days a week, where he'll have to stick with 2 nap days until he can manage a little longer As and hopefully after the clock change so I can hopefully get him to start his days a bit later...
Jem88 - oh dear, sorry to hear about that, hope you manage to catch up on sleep yourselves! Have you tried cutting the am nap to under 30mins? We've been doing that fairly successfully for the last 4 months or so, actually just shaving off 5mins at a time. You could try just 25mins at first and then cut the next A time, we used to cut it by about 15mins if we'd shaved 5mins off the capped nap. Alternatively, since she's already doing 3h 45mins before the first nap, and will give you a nice long one on that, you could consider letting her do that 2h nap but then offering a short late pm CN to get her to a later BT. We've never tried that, I know it works for some, but causes chaos for other LOs - has anyone currently on this thread had success with it?
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trimbler - Hi :) I haven't tried cutting the AM under 30mins yet as the day before she had the 1 nap, she did 30 AM and then a full 2hr PM and we only had 2 NWs that night - But it was a long day, i think 13hr. For the moment i'm going to stick with 30 AM and 2-2.5hr PM but try to shorten the A time before PM nap by 5-10mins every few days and hope that will shorten our days. Will stick with this for a week or so and see how our nights go.
I thought about long AM and short PM nap but my mum goes to work at 1pm & we somtimes go round on a morning after AM nap so the short AM and long PM works best for us. :) x
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Jem88, how's it going? Btw I wouldn't worry too much about the days getting longer, I think that happens with most LOs to some extent when they're on 2 naps but almost needing just 1. We've had a few ok weeks with 13.5h days here and there, although I always used to think that DS did better with at least 11h at night.
We're having our first intentional 1 nap day! Yesterday was also 1 nap, but only because he refused the am nap. Slept 2h without a peep, then stirred a bit but went back for another 30mins before waking up - wasn't very happy when he woke though, not sure if he was OT or just a bit confused?! Today's nap isn't going so well though :( He's stirred several times, firstly at the 45min mark, but went back to sleep quickly, but now he's awake at the 2nd 45min mark and it also sounded like he almost woke several times in the middle. Just babbling quietly to himself, no crying as yet, and it's not 'hey I'm awake and ready to go' babbling either! So I clearly have some way to go in guessing what time to PD for this 1 nap... if I give you the last couple of days' timings, does anyone have any thoughts? On a good 2 nap day, he does 4h 45mins A time to BT, but might take another 15mins to get to sleep.
Yesterday - night wasn't great, probably due to painful nappy rash :( Seemed v tired in the morning so aimed for 2 nap day but got:
6:30 WU
9:30 PD for nap - wasn't having it so got up at 10am and gave big snack
11:15 PD for nap (bit delayed due to nappy etc) - cried a bit and went to sleep 11:20, stirred 1:20, woke 1:50.
6:15pm Straight to sleep, had the odd cry-out in his sleep but put it down to the rash, other than that slept all the way through :) until...
Today so far:
6:30 WU (seemed bright and had had a good night so decided to try for 1 nap)
11:15 PD but cried a bit and finally went to sleep 11:30. Woke 12:15 but straight back; woke 1pm and babbled on and off quietly for ages, keeps going quiet so I think he's gone back but then I hear more babbling in the monitor... Sure he must still be tired... but now he sounds more lively at 1:30pm... Was he OT/UT??? Still, he's happy so I'll keep him there a bit longer... if he doesn't get back I'll try EBT at 5:30!
Any ideas? At his childminder, with a 6:30 WU (or often earlier), he'll do 20mins am nap around 9:30 and then his long nap (2h) is at 1pm, so I've no idea whether 11:30am for his 1 nap is likely to be OT/UT?? All I know is that the last time he refused his am nap, his pm nap was delayed (lunch, nappy etc) until 11:50 and this was definitely OT.
Ok he's sounding less happy now, think I'll get him up!
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Ok so I PD'd for BT at 5:40pm and he went straight to sleep... but woke after 10mins, quietly babbling again until he possibly got fed up and started crying, sitting up. Carried on his quiet babbling after I went in to him and didn't then get to sleep until around 6:40pm! I'm a bit confused because for both his nap and BT today he did seem to be showing tired signs - I still find him hard to read but when he gets tired he can get rather crazy/hyper and tends to get more easily wound up, which he was certainly doing today! But in the past, an OT nap has meant hard crying when he wakes, and, (as with the other day when his 1 nap was at 11:50), he may even push me away when I go in to help him resettle, as he burrows into the mattress. Whereas today, I guess he was doing his usual UT thing, both at naptime and BT. Maybe I do need to push him a bit further? Just a bit scared to do that, since after his 11:50 nap day, we had an absolutely awful night!
Ok I'll stop rambling on now and let someone answer! How's everyone else getting on? I was also wondering, does anyone find that the 18mo sleep regression exacerbates the 2-1 if it's around that age? I've only just heard about that one and of course it's giving me something else to worry about :)
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DS2 has no routine! At home we have been doing 1nap days. He sleeps for anythingt from 1.15 to 3hrs after lunch. At nursery he has had some crazy 2 nap days including a 3hr am nap then a 1.5hr pm nap! At mil house he often does 2 naps quite close together like 11-12 and 1.30-3.30. Dont know where we are with transition! Xx
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Interesting, j.and.e! Is it possible that he might be getting a bit more tired with some of his 1 nap days, especially the shorter ones, and then make up for it with 2 longer naps at nursery and mil's? What's his childcare pattern each week? And is this a problem for him - e.g. are his nights bad, do you get EW or is he tired and grumpy much of the time? I mean, my DS does 20mins am nap and 2h pm nap at the childminders, but this isn't sustainable for him every day as the nights get too short, so we often have 10mins am nap or even no am nap at home, but then he sometimes gets OT and then needs his 20min nap at the childminders the next day... But then I do find it hard to guess what BT to aim for, and often get it quite wrong!
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We had a wk of sttn, only bt moving eg 6pm on a home day and anything up to 8.30pm after big nap days. This wk he has had nw and ews, but is teething and now has a tummy bug. Dificult to see where we'r goin. Dont want to advise mil and nursery to change the routine until i know its not working. Xx
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My LO has slept really well all week, with good naps and only 1-2 NWs - Until lastnight we had a good day nap and bedtime wise, she actually slept 6.50pm - 10.30pm which is a first as she's been waking up at th 30min mark after going to bed for around 2 months now lol. But then woke every hour from 10.30 - 3.30am where i brought her into our bed as i was knackred lol. and she slept til 6.30am.
She's at my mums today and i'm hoping she had a pm nap as she tends to either not sleep or only nap an hour at my mums. x
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Hi everyone. I'm new to this thread. DD is currently 14 months old and I've started her transition to 1 nap.
I had read on one of the threads that a good way to initiate it was to give LO 1 nap one day, then 2 naps another day. However, her days get very long (9 pm and DH is still trying to get her down) with 2 naps - even though the second is simply 15 mins. The days when we have 1 nap, its awesome - perfect timing and in bed between 8 and 8.30.
The only thing I'm worried about with switching to solely one nap is that she will get OT and when she does that, its very hard to break out of it - plus, pregnant with no2 so need all the sleep I can get!
Any suggestions on what I should do??
Don't know where I'd turn to if I didn't have this forum!! Thanks a ton!
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Welcome Syedoo!
If she does well with one nap, I would try it! You can always have a 2 nap day whenever she really needs it ;)
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Hi all, I've been on the other 2-1 thread but seeing as DD is well over one now I should probably come and join in here :)
We've been properly napcapping since the new year - we started in November but were then travelling for all of Dec so all attempts at a consistent routine went out the window lol. We have EW usually at around 5 for the past week, but I've been keeping her quiet in her cot where possible til 6. I suspect teeth are playing a part there, but dream meds haven't seemed to help much. I did W2S this morning at 4.15 though, and she slept until 5.45, quiet in cot til 6.15. Woohoo! Could be coincidence but I'll do the same again tomorrow.
I'm trying to do a consistent 30 min AM nap from 9.45 - 10.15, give or take 5 mins, and an afternoon nap from around 1 - 3.15. I've decided to wake her after 2hr15 max - she would do a 2.5-3hr nap but then the pm A time isn't long enough which isn't going to help our EW go away! Not sure if I should be capping it at 2hrs...? But she only does 11hr nights at best, so I don't think 2hr45 is too much day sleep for her.
I'm hoping to hold her on a 30 min AM nap for a while as I don't think she's ready for one nap yet and I don't like the idea of only giving her a tiny CN :( For those who have done a really short AM CN like this (10-20 mins) - what sort of A time were you looking at until the PM nap? And how long were you at that stage for?
Haven't had a chance to read back through this thread much yet to see who's here, but glad to have a bit of support on the journey :)
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I'm hoping to hold her on a 30 min AM nap for a while as I don't think she's ready for one nap yet and I don't like the idea of only giving her a tiny CN Sad For those who have done a really short AM CN like this (10-20 mins) - what sort of A time were you looking at until the PM nap? And how long were you at that stage for?
Once we got to the super short AM nap, I used to plan our outings so that she would take this little nap in the car ;) Then I would wake her when we got to our destination and she was happy as she was distracted by shopping ;) That phase only lasted a week or 10 days! Then I stayed home for 2 weeks and forced to one nap ;)
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Forgot to add: after a 15 min CN, we would do about 2 hrs of A time :)
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Thanks Kara - I don't have a car during the day or even a buggy so sadly that's not an option! But good to know that stage didn't last long.
The W2S seemed to be successful again this morning - 5.55 WU :) Another half hour later and I'll be happy!
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Ugh - hmmm, can you take him for a walk in a baby carrier? Remember, it's just a CN so you can totally AP if needed!
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I think she'll go down in the cot fine, it's just having to wake her so soon that I don't like the idea of! But if I've got something lined up to distract her it should be ok :)
Also, it's the only nap of the day that I get as DH takes over at 1pm, so am not looking forward to having only 15 mins to do all my housework :P. At least when she's on one nap I'll get the first half of it!
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do housework with her, she mite like to help and u need ur sleep! We are not worrying bout 2.1 now as ds2 is poorly :-( hope we can get back on track when he's better xx
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Oh I do most of it with her - she loves to help almost too much! But there are some things that I can't do with her, yk? Hope your DS is feeling better soon! Bet he needs all the sleep he can get atm :-*
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Nuala - I totally know what you mean about helping too much! Laundry is DD's fav chore and it's exhausting to try and outpace her with the folding as she manages to unfold just as quickly some days LOL!
jande... hugs hun. Hope he is better soon!
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Thanx ladies! E bit bettr, but now J has chicken pox! Xx
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ACK!
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Yep! Stuck at home with 2sick kiddies! Xx
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Hi girls...needing some help with the 2-1 transition...DD is nearly 14months and was doing a long am nap of 1.5hrs at about 1015 and then a forty min pm nap about 2pm...but for the past week she refused to take pm nap so suspected she was ready to take 1nap....so I kept her up till 1120 and tried to give her a long nap but she still only napped 1hr30. Wouldn't hv a cn later that day so was very OT by BT. That was yesterday. So today I went back to two naps but thought I'd try a short am, long pm nap, put her in cot at about 10am, she fell asleep at 1020, I woke her at 11am. Then did pm nap at 145, she fell asleep at 2pm and woke at 330pm. She was pretty tired and cranky at By 630, put her to bed at 7 and she was veer upset and cried and moaned, fell asleep at 730.
Anyways, not really sure what to do from here, she naturally wants to hv a longer AM nap but this makes the PM nap such a mission or non existent. If I do the short Am nap, longer pm nap I feel like maybe there is not long enough Atime till bed. And she struggled pretty badly the day of 1nap so don't think she's quite ready for that yet.....so yeah I'm confused....any ideas?!?
Thanks, Charly.
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Okay, I need some advice or support. My DD is nearly 18 months. We went cold turkey to one nap almost a month ago. Before that we'd had a couple months of limiting the am nap to 1 hour in order to get an afternoon nap (also was 1 hr- didn't lengthen even though we shortened the am nap). My issue is that I can't seem to get a nap much longer than 1hr 15mins. Here's our schedule- let me know if anyone sees any issues:
6:15/6:30ish wake-up, nap 12:15/30ish for just over an hour, bedtime at 7:30. She goes to sleep just fine for nap and bedtime. I've never gotten more than 11 hrs at night for any length of time and daylight savings has just helped "solve" our early wake time so I'm super hesitant to try an earlier bedtime for fear of EWs. When we first transitioned to one nap she was taking a 2hr nap for about a week straight. Since then, it's holding steady at just over an hour. She's a major grump all afternoon until around 6 then she's cheery until bedtime.
Should I stay the course? She seems too old to try to re-institute 2 naps. She still gets crabby around her old morning nap time though. I thought that would have passed by now. At least spring time is here so we can get outside and run around to get out the grumpies. Thanks all!
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I think her first A time could be a touch too long given that she has just moved to one nap... really, most LO's are at about 5 hrs for their morning A time for the first while, slowly moving to 6 hrs. We just got to 6 hrs after 4 months of one nap :)
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Kara, what pm A do u do if u get a short nap? We have tried 1nap as 15mo Ds2 has been refusing am nap, or doing 2 short naps. Consistantly waking at 5ish. The 1nap days have been mostly short eg 1.15-1.30 naps. Y'day he did up 6.15 nap 12-1.20 Bt 6.20. I tried nap at 10.30, 11 and 1 and dont get a gd nap. If i do early nap is hard to get a cn and then he has a long A to bed. I am trying to push bt late to get a later WU. Xx
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When DD was really in the middle of the transition, I set BT and nap time as best I could without her losing her mind :) WU was 630am, nap was 1130 - whenever, BT was 7pm. If she short napped, I kept her at home with low key/low stimulation and put her down no earlier than 645pm. It only took a couple of weeks for her to sort it out... there were some UGLY days in there though! Up at 545am, 1 hr 10 min naps... we even had a 7 hr A to EBT!
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Okay, I'm trying a shorter morning A time. That could be why she was sleeping so well during the first week of transition- we were putting her down earlier that I have been lately. Up at 6:15 this morning and just put her down at 11:30 so we'll see how long she goes. If she still only does an hour it's gonna be a looooong 7 hours to bedtime. I'm really trying to avoid bedtime earlier than 7:30 cause she seems to only sleep 10.5-11hrs per night and I don't want EWs to rear their ugly head again.
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Update- slept for nearly 2 hours! Amazing! Put her down 30-45mins earlier. And she just woke up happy instead of fussy. Thanks Kara!
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EXCELLENT!!! Don't be afraid of EBT during the transition ;) My DD never slept longer than 10 hrs at night (once she started STTN) and she did a few 12 hr nights during the move ;) Remember that OT will give you an EW for sure! Better to put her down a bit early if needed.
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Thanks! Did 2naps 2day as he pasd out at 10am. Bt at 7pm ... Am expecting wu pre 5am tomorow. Ugh xx
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LOL!
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Slept till 5.40 so not too bad! Now try again to push day later... Xx
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Kara, How much earlier did you bump up bedtime? 30 mins? Or more? DD slept 10:45 solid last night without a peep. Up at 6:15. It's weird how she seems to be hardwired for that wake time. You'd think they would wake when they've gotten enough sleep, but wake time seems to be totally independent of sleep needs. I'm so scared of an early bedtime because as I said before we've only gotten this late a wake-time thanks to our recent daylight savings.
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I had a set bedtime of 7pm and would do 645pm if needed ;)
I only ever got a night longer than 10 hrs once I pushed to one nap ;)
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my lil munkey did a 2hr am nap 10.30-12.30 and then 3.15-4.15 (they woke). Today was a nursery day. He nevr sleeps like that at home! I did 8pm bed as he was falling asleep on me (after a 5.40am start). Am just hoping 4a 10hr nite... Althou am amazd at his day naps, as i mostly only get 1hr 10 all day! Xx
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He likely wears himself out at nursery ;)
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Interesting catching up with your latest... I'm not sure what to do about EBT ??? In the past, if he had a short pm nap, for whatever reason, EBT would work really well for him, he'd get to sleep quickly and be able to catch up on sleep during the night, even doing up to 13h about 6 months ago! Ok more like 12h max more recently, but even so, it worked... Now, he's just taking a real age to get to sleep whenever I PD :( All started with us all getting a stomach bug 3 weeks ago when his day and night sleep went bad. He just seems to have got so OT that he can't catch up again. He's always tired, but just can't settle for sleep especially at BT :(
Now our issue is that his pm nap time has to start between 12:30 and 1pm, and finish no later than 3pm, three days per week, when he's at his childminder's. His previous routine (before it all started going wrong) was:
06:30 Up (if he woke earlier, he'd stay in his cot until this time)
09:30 PD for nap1 (20mins, variable settling time)
1:00 nap2 (2h)
7:45ish BT (ie 4h 45mins A time)
We have occasionally experimented with 1 nap days at the weekend, and seem to find that he needs a first A time of 5h 15mins to get a nap of 2h+ (yesterday it was about 2.5h in total but he needed resettling in the middle, however his previous night's sleep wasn't so good). But we still haven't found the 'right' A to BT with 1 nap, working on that... Once our clocks change (next weekend), I'm hoping for something like:
7:15 WU (can't be later than this for childcare drop-off)
12:30 - 3pm nap
7:30pm?? BT (thinking might need to start out at 4h 30mins A time, perhaps?)
BUT... We've had lots of horrible EWs recently, until yesterday he hasn't managed to get back to sleep at all, but yesterday he went back to sleep at 6:30, just when we'd have got him up anyway! So I tried the above routine, waking him at 7:15 to start the day. Nap was good enough, considering, but it took him ages to settle at BT and then we got 5:30 WU... back to sleep 6:15ish for half an hour only. Tried for a morning nap since I knew we wouldn't be able to give him an early enough pm nap, but that was refused so it was 12:30 PD and only 1.25h nap :( :( He was so tired after that but just could not go back to sleep, we tried for sooooooo long! So, woke 1:45, spend 1h+ trying to get back to sleep and tried for EBT at 6pm... Still trying to go to sleep at 7:10pm, so as you see the EBT just doesn't seem to be working any more :( Should I have tried even earlier, do you think? Kara - I agree that OT will always just result in EW, but when you did EBT to avoid this, it doesn't sound like it was actually much earlier than usual? Did you then get EW, or were you able to resettle?
I'm sorry for the mammoth post, I'm just so tired, confused and desperate! I feel like we've got 2-1, 18mo regression and illness (still has a cold which has been going on ever since he recovered from stomach bug) all at once, and I just don't know what to do or how to get any of us enough sleep!
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Kara - I agree that OT will always just result in EW, but when you did EBT to avoid this, it doesn't sound like it was actually much earlier than usual? Did you then get EW, or were you able to resettle?
It wasn't much earlier :) All it takes is 15-30 mins to avoid that resistance that an OT baby has and will use to fight bedtime. I found that getting DD down when she wasn't quite to the crazy tired stage meant that she would literally pass out when I put her down and would stay asleep through the night without an EW... if I put her off until her normal BT, it would just be enough to make her fight and take a while to settle (often she would take 30 mins to go down), so in essence, she would lose an hour of sleep. If she woke at the same early time, at least she was down earlier and got a little more total sleep overnight, KWIM?
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We had a good night last night!, 3 NWs but i really thought it would be a bad night as she didn't nap well yesterday.(She only had 1 30min nap sunday as she was at my mums so sun night was awful, she was awake every 30mins until 1.00am then didn't settle until 2.55am then was up at 4.30am and then 5.30am for the day. Our routine yesterday was:
5.30am - up for the day.
8.30am - nap A time 3hr.
9.30am - up. 1hr (I normally wake her after 30mins but let her have an hour)pm
1.25pm - nap A time 3hr 55mins (I was out and didn't realise the time and she fell asleep as i was walking home.)
1.45pm - up. up. 20mins (I tried to transfer her into her cot and she woke up and wouldn't resettle.)
5.40pm - Bed. A time 3hr 55mins.
She then woke at 6.10pm, 11.15pm 3.40am and then up for the day at 5.45am.
I'm not sure what naps to do today - I've been doing 30min AM and then letting her sleep for the PM which she normally does 2-2.5hrs. But we've still been getting 3-4 NWs with 1 longest stretch of sleep being 3.5-4hr.
Last night she went to sleep within 2-3mins, but she's been taking 25-30mins to settle down to sleep for the past week and getting OT. I was cuddling/rocking until sleepy then putting her into her cot but 2 weeks ago i've been putting her down into her cot and then standing next to it and she's been going to sleep fine but after playing around for 20-30mins even when she's tired.. But obv she can't of been tired enough to sleep within 5-10mins but then playing around and then ending up OT?
As yesterday AM nap and bedtime she was asleep within 5mins or less of me putting her down. x
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Trimbler - if it helps, at 16 ish months, I had to limit DS's nap to 2hrs max, or we would get EW. And I think this is probably why your EBT aren't working anymore, b/c he's having too much day sleep/not enough A time to BT. I think on your 'ideal' routine you posted, a 4.5hr A after a 2.5hr nap will likely be too short.
For the past couple of months my DS (19 months old today) has been doing a 2hr nap 12.30-2.30 and a 5hr A time to bed at 7.30 & he's got up at 7am. Now, we're having to start cutting his nap back to 1.5hrs. I know my DS went to 1 nap a bit earlier than yours, and yours is a little younger, but he's getting towards an age where his sleep needs will start to reduce. IIWM I would probably try limiting his nap, perhaps start at 2h 15, and trim back to 2hrs if you keep getting EW.
hiya Jem88 - I'll leave you in Kara's hands since I'm already posting on your thread. Do agree yesterday looked OT but if you are getting EW I think you need to be careful about allowing too long & too early a morning nap. Putting down at 8.30am will just encourage the EW to continue. xx
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ok we movd to 1nap. Tird of 5am starts. Ds2 is 15mo. He only does a short nap thou. I have tried all sorts of times btwn 10am and 1pm. Occasionly he flukes a 2hr nap. Fri we had 5.30am up, nap 12-1.45pm bt 7.30pm. Nw 2.30-3.15am. Sat up 6.30am Nap 12-12.40 bt 6pm. Sun up 5.20am nap 10.50-11.50 nap2 5-5.30 bt 8.15pm Mon up 6am Nap 12.40-2.40 bt 6.40pm (early but he was falling asleep on the floor). Tue up 5.20am Nap 12.50-1.55 bt 7pm. I tried to do a short am nap at 9.30 (after 4hr+ A but he refusd). I tried again at 10am no luck. Out in the car, still no luck! He's sleeping 11-12hrs in 24 and early bed=early wake! Can anyone help! Xx
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Yesterday went like:
5.45am - up. (She was in bed for 6.10pm so this wasn't a bad wake up time.)
8.40am - nap. A time 2hr 55mins.
9.40am - up. 1hr.
1.40pm - nap. A time 3.5hr.
3.00pm - up. 1hr 20mins.
6.40pm - Bed. A time 3hr 40mins.
She slept from 6.40pm - 1.30am (She did stirr and shout out at 8.45pm when my OH came up to bed but she didn't wake up properly).
She was then awake from 1.30am - 3.00am, she wasn't jumping around playing just laying down singing and chatting. She slept 3.00am - 4.45am - Then refused to go back to sleep. x
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j.and.e. - I'd say he's doing a lot of long A times to nap & his days are pretty long overall so its likely he could be OT. eg looking at Monday & Tuesday alone, on Monday he did 6h 40 A / 2hr nap / 4hrs A. I know he was falling asleep on the floor but this is probably b/c he's being pushed too far in the mornings. If you push him less, he will probably take a consistently better nap, which will help him last the distance til BT. Also evening up the A times a bit might help your nights lengthen.
I know you fear early bed will = early wake but it really honestly doesn't always! For us, on 2 naps then yes it probably would. But on 1 nap, EBT is a lifesaver where OT is involved.
IIWM I would try & work on a more consistent naptime, perhaps 11.30 initially, given the EW. 12 at the absolute latest. Put him down at the same time every day, and I would probably cap the nap at 2hrs absolute max & shoot for bedtime 5hrs later. Repeat repeat repeat. By doing some early bedtimes this will eliminate OT & should help his naps to lengthen. Once his naps have lengthened, and his wakeup time starts to be a little more consistent, then you can work on shifting it all later to get back to the bedtime that you would prefer.
Jem - that long NW sounds suspiciously like she is UT to me. I also think that 1h 20 PM nap is indicative of that. I still think you need to keep working on shifting the AM nap very gradually later, as being so early it will encourage the EW. But I also think you maybe ought to consider capping it a bit shorter to 45mins, which might get you a longer PM nap. The A time before the PM nap might need to be reduced a touch. If you can get a 1.5hr+ PM nap, you would then be able to push BT out a bit in order to help you achieve a later WU.
HTH ladies.x
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thanks claire. If i do 11.30 nap shud i do 5hrs 2bt even if still early like 5.30pm? Today he did up 5.35 nap 12-2.30 bt pd 6.45 asleep 7.15 (so not quite 5hrs but not far off!) xx
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That's a great nap! I would maybe hold those A times for a few days and see if it sticks!
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:-) so despite a gd day y'day up 5.35 nap 12.00 to 2.30 asleep 7.15 he woke at 5am today. I took him to bed with me and he snuggld and bf until 5.30 then climbd out of bed and went off to play. Do i need to do 8.30 bt to push WU? Xx
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Last night wasn't too bad, we only had 2 NWs where i had to go in and resettle. I did have her in bed before 3.5hr A time but she didn't settle until nearly 4hr A time so i then had to wake at 3.30pm. Our routine yesterday was:
22nd.
5.30am - up.
9.30am - nap. A time 4hr.
10.00am - up. 30mins.
1.55pm - nap. 3hr 55mins.
3.30pm - up. 1hr 35mins.
6.55pm - Bed. A time 3hr 20mins.
She then woke at 9.45pm(Needed to go in and resettle) 2.30am(she just stirred but i didn't need to go in) She was then woke at 4.20am and was awake "playing" until 5.30am but then slept until 7.10am but she did stirr at 6.30am but didn't wake properly. x
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j.and.e - I think that yes he does need a longer A to BT than 5hrs after such a long nap, HOWEVER, if you push BT out alone this will make his day really long, and could make him get more OT. I really would bring the nap a touch earlier (just as a short term thing) so you can shorten up his day, get past the OT & ^then^ you can push it all out later again. Something else to consider is that you might find you still get a short night if he naps over 2hrs in the day. At 15/16 months we had to cap DS's nap at 2hrs max or he'd only do 10hrs at night.
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I would push BT, but not too far! I would try 730pm for a few days (5 hrs A time to BT). If it keeps up with the shorter nights, start to cap his nap at 2 hrs :)
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Thanx ladies. Thur he did a lovely nap 12.00-2.30 then asleep at 7.15 and up at 4.58! Ugh. Had 2 naps Fri as he droppd off while out so did two 40min naps at 10 and 3, then bt 7pm up 5.25am. The child wont sleep! Will try for 11.30/12 nap, or if he cant last maybe just 20min at 10. Xx
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j.and.e and Jem88 - sending (((hugs))) your way, don't have any more advice for you, Claire and Kara being so helpful as always :)
Hmmm.... I really don't know what's going on with us! Last Thursday was DS last ever 2 nap day at his childminders - we've decided! Yesterday was approx:
06:30 Up (after a shorter-than-ideal night)
11:45 nap (woke crying at 45mins and 1.5h but quickly resettled himself each time ... then was still asleep at 2:20 when I went in to wake... but he didn't rouse easily so I waited a bit before trying again... 2:30 - managed to wake him!)
7:20 PD, took about 20mins to settle but was starting to show slightly OT signs...
Today:
06:30 Up (assuming he woke around then, I woke to my alarm!)
11:45 nap - only 1.5h, tried to resettle for ages but he really didn't seem to need more sleep??? Was quite happy chatting until he got bored!
6:30 PD (so already >5h A time from shorter-than-usual nap), but it was babble, babble.... quiet.... babble, babble.... quiet.... babble, babble etc until (hopefully!) finally asleep at 7:20 - ie ~6h A time after short nap???!!! Fearing an OT EW tomorrow...
Ok, so maybe 5.25h 1st A time is too little if he's had a good night's sleep, so I might try pushing to 5.5h after a good night, but I just don't get what to do after a shorter nap? It just seems to take him an hour or so to settle, whether I give him less A time to account for the shorter nap (as used to work...) or push him until closer to the BT he would have had if he'd had a longer nap. Doesn't quite seem right. I guess I should maybe expect a jump in A times now since we're hopefully out of the really ill horrible few weeks so he's getting more quality sleep, and sleep needs start to reduce after 18mo anyway, don't they? But I'm really not convinced by the 6h A time after a 1.5h nap, when just a month ago (before getting ill) he was good on 4.75h after a 2h nap, plus a 10-20min morning nap! He's always made more gradual changes in the past...
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j.and.e - how old is DS? There is a weird developmental thing around 15/16 months that many LO's here have been through... horrid naps/short nights/EW and all.. nothing seems to fix it!
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Kara ds2 is 15months tomorw, so that fits! Today up at 5.25. i tried nap at 11.15 he woke at 12.25. Thought we'd get a cn in the car (did a 30min drive at 5.15) but nope! Pd at 7pm and straight to sleep. Wonder what 2mz will bring xx
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That could be it then hun... I think the biggest thing looking back is that they are ready for the nap to be at lunch time... maybe push him to noon come hell or highwater and see if he naps longer for you! It worked for me.. until she woke up with a head full of snot this morning ;)
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:-( poor baby xx
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She was a clingy baby today :( Poor kid... but she managed an 'okay' 2 hr nap... she was a little restless... but went to bed without a peep in about 35 seconds tonight! She has a touch of a fever too :(
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hope she sleeps it off. My guy did a 10hr nite again, bt the clocks changed here so up at 6am (to him 5am) ha ha! Am going to aim for 8pm bt and accept that he isnt getting much sleep ever...
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Yesterday our naps we're not great and a little all over the place as we went to my OHs parents 1.5hr drive away as they had family over. She was up at 4.50am for the day after a 7.00pm bedtime and 4 NWs with 1 lasting an hour 10mins. yesterday went:
24th
4.50am - up for the day.
7.50am - nap. A time 3hr.
9.05am - up. 1hr 15mins.
12.50pm - nap. A 3hr 45mins. (This is just a rough guess as not exactly sure what time she fell asleep as my OHs sister took LO for a walk to the shop an she fell asleep on the way there.)
1.35pm - up. 40mins.
7.00pm - Bed. A time 5hr 55mins.
LO stopped at my OHs sisters for the first time lastnight and was in bed for 7.00pm she woke at 11.30am, 1.30am and then was up for the day at 7.00pm. - Well 6.00am as the clocks went forward here. But she was only awake for 5mins each time she woke.
I actually can't believe how well she slept as all week she's been up 3-4 times with 1 nw lasting an hour + and then she's been awake around 5.00am. x
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Probably b/c she had much less day sleep & a very long day hun - she'll likely have been shattered. They always do these things with other people anyway - I swear its to make folks think we make it up when we say they dont sleep through!
Glad to see you are sticking with pushing your AM nap out. Are you planning to cap that nap? I know you couldn't yesterday due to travelling, but I really think you need to pull that PM nap earlier in order to give her enough A time to BT.x
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Hi, yeah i've been capping the AM nap at 30mins, thinking of making it 20mins and putting her down for the PM nap earlier. She's not back home yet and i've no idea when/how or if she's even slept today - I'm hoping she has lol. Will start a fresh tomorrow though. x
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LO was back home last night and woke more than twice lol. she finally settled at 7.30pm woke at 8.10pm,12.25am,5.05am fell back asleep around 5.30am and then was up at 7.10am.
I'm pleased than she did 2 stretches of 4 an abit hrs BUT we still got that 5am wake up that we've had for all of last week. Yet she slept 1.30am - 7am(would of been 6am) the night before at OHs sisters - ARGH!. x
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Ok we had a v respectable 6.40am start (wud have been 5.40am b4 dst). He also did a great nap for MIL 12.40-2.40. I did bt at 7.45 and he settld easily in 5mins. I feel like we had a perfect day- 8pm to 6.40am sttn 6hr A 2hr nap 5hr A 7.50pm bt (give or take!) If he is up at 5 again tomorw i will blame teeth. He is 15mo. Xx
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5 again. Bah. Did 12.40-2.40 nap and pd earlier (7.20pm) He took 15min to settle. At least if he's up at 5am 2mz it'l be a 9.5hr nite insted of just 9hrs. Still two days of 2hr nap is pretty awesome! Xx
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Last night was awful, LO was in bed for 5.45pm as she only had a 1hr nap all day as we were out. She woke 4 times between 5.45pm - 9.15pm then every 15mins between then and - 11.15pm, slept til 12am then again woke every 15mins where i then brought her in with us as i was so tired, she then slept 2hrs but then decided it was time to play for 1hr 30mins.. I finally got her to sleep around 4.30am and she slept til 6.10am.
I did manage 2 naps today though. It went like:
27th.
6.10am - up.
8.50am - nap. A time 2hr 45mins.
9.20am - up. 30mins.
1.10pm - nap. A time 3hr 50mins.
3.10pm - up. 2hr.
7.40pm - Bed. A time 4.5hr.
For the PM nap I was going to wake at the 1.5hr mark.. well i did go up and stroked her face twice but she didn't even move, so i left her another 30mins, i then again struggled to wake her at the 2hr mark but she woke up lol.
I then had her in bed for 6.55pm but she didn't settle until 45mins later!. We've already had our 1st NW at the 40min mark which i'm not sure if it's OT or UT?
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I'm actually really confused as to why she slept well at my OHs sisters house (only 2 NWs and a 11hr night) with a AM nap of 1hr 15min, PM nap of 35-40min and then a A time to bed of 5.5hr and a long day.
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An awful night, she woke 40mins after going to bed, then every hour until 12.30am then did a 3hr stretch 12.40am - 3.40am then was awake until 4.20am but she only slept an hour then was up again messing around wanting to play. What's going on? She normally only has bad nights like this when she's only had 30-60min sleep all day.. x
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Ok, NW at 4am then up at 5am. Did 20min nap at 10am then 1-3pm bt 7.20. Early bed, but have had loads of early starts anyway. Sigh. XX
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Jem - teething?? UT?
j.and.e - sounds like an UT early morning ;)
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Hi Kara,
Am about to do another post, as have got so many different ideas am not sure where to go next. I tried to do 8pm BT hoping he would do 10 hrs until 6am, but we were getting 5am starts anyway. He is also getting tantrumy in the evenings.
Would be greatful for your help, I feel like I've tried everything and nothing works!
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http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=228360.0 not sure how to do links...
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She's been teething/getting her 9th tooth which looks like a big one for about 3 weeks now (It's actually half way out.) I've been giving teething powders/gel with NWs. I think possible UT, so yesterday she had 30min AM and 1.5hr PM (I had to wake at both naps.) She then didn't settle until 4.5hr A time for bed and i was then a little worried that she was going to be OT, but she slept well for the 1st part from the night. She slept 7.00pm - 11.50pm well she did moan/stir a few times but she didn't wake up properly crying. She then slept 12.27am - 2.30am. 2.33am - 3.05am. 3.15 - 5.15am but then was awake playing until 6.20am where she finally fell asleep until 7.20am. x
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Jem - those wake ups look like teething pain to me hun... have you tried ibuprofen at BT and the first NW?
On my way j.and.e
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Hi :) I've been giving calpol the odd time, but mostly teething powders and gel as we ran out of nurofen a few weeks back. BUT i will get some and try that as i know it's better than calpol. x
She slept at my mums lastnight and went to bed fine, so will see how she slept soon. x
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This is quiet. Hope you all have it figured out now. Please tell me...
We managed 1 nap today. We had a better night last night so guess that helped. We had family over so got to bed later than I planned. No ot nw at 45min at least.
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We'r fully on 1nap now as even with EWs my LO just wont do an am nap anymore. Have been battling 4.30starts and finally decided to tackle by refusing to get up before 6am, then doing nap 12/12.30 then bed at 7. No comprimise for a short nap. Am sticking with this for 2wks and will see what happens! Today is day 5. This morning he woke at 5.45 but dh settld him in 10mins and he slept til 6.20! Nap 12.45-2.30 (took 10mins to settle as OT), BT 7 straight to sleep happy xx
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Going in the right direction then. We are still half and half. We only got 90min today for nap so hope he is not too ot.
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j.and.e - that's kind of similar to what we're trying atm, although we have a shorter A time before his nap and longer to BT. His last 2 nap day was about 5 weeks ago but since then we've gone into 18mo regression territory and still not settled into a nice routine! We have to fix his nap around 12:30-12:45 because of his childminder's routine, so we don't get him up until 7:15, whatever time he wakes, then it's a 2h-ish nap on a good day, BT around 8pm but taking AGES to get to sleep and can't quite pin down OT/UT etc... might even have to start cutting the nap if he doesn't sort himself out soon! Sounds like you're getting there :)
How's it for you, Khalam's Mama?
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Terrible, but thanks for asking. We have had lots of 2 nap days or 1 nap days with naps less than 1.5hrs. This has been accompanied by even more NW than usual.
It is just impossible to get out atm as he will sleep in the buggy or car for sure. This morning DH took him in the buggy to get eggs at 8.45 and he had only been awake 2hrs and he slept 45mins. I have been needing some shopping for over a week now but can never find a time to go that will not mess up his naps. K used to nap 1.5hrs in the buggy at this age so sometimes I could let him have this as his 1 nap but B will rarely do a decent nap so I have to try to avoid it. Very frustrating.
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Okay, I'm jumping in here. I have been posting on the 2-1 naps forum, but my DS is 13 months, time to face the facts that he isn't a little baby anymore!
I'm thinking of just cutting out his morning CN, but not sure if that is a fix. Right now his day is (or it was until a few days ago)
6:30-7 am Wake up
9:30-9:45 CN (I wake him after 35 minutes)
1:00 - Nap (Usually around 2 hours sometimes 2.5)
6:30 BT
Then the past two days he has basically refused his second nap. He was out like a light when I woke him from his CN, so I figured he'd still be ready for his second nap. I realize it is a short A time, but last week when it was 3 or more hours he was a wreck OT and couldn't sleep for very long. He went down fine for his second nap yesterday but woke after 30 minutes, playing/laying back down trying to settle over and over. After 45 minutes he had enough and I got him up. Today he just never settled. He wasn't crying or fussy in his crib, just up and down trying to settle but getting no where. So, I'm letting him play a bit longer, and then going to try to put him down for an hour nap here shortly.
Will I be in a world of hurt if I just cut that morning nap and bring in the second nap a bit? I feel like it will be ripping off a band aid, but I thought we still had more time since we hadn't cut this first nap back to 20 minutes yet, and it was only a week or so ago that we cut it back to 35 from 45.
Thanks for the help!
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I found there not to be much difference from 45-35mins so maybe you need to just cut straight to 20mins?
We got one nap here today so I am hoping for a better night. A good 2hr nap and EBT all gave a pretty decent day so FX he isn't OT.
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Hope he's out of that OT cycle now, Khalam's Mama?
I'm afraid I don't know about going cold turkey since we hung on to that morning nap until 18mo when it was 10-20mins and he was often refusing it anyway! I know when our DS was 13mo he was doing something like:
6:30 Up
9:30-10:00 Nap1
1-3 Nap2
7ish BT
..and by 15mo he was down to a 20min nap in the morning, although he had a few hiccups along the way with illness etc. But for him, 5 minutes made a big difference, in fact during this phase every time we shaved 5 mins off the morning nap, we had to bring the afternoon nap forward by 15mins. But I know they're not all the same :) But tbh I'd have thought if you were going to go cold turkey you'd want to know that he was capable of at least 4.5h A time, even 5h, which it doesn't look like he's doing yet?
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We decided not to go "cold turkey!" But we are now doing a 2 nap one day, 1 the next. It seems on his 2 nap days his BT is around 8, so he sleeps in the next day and then we do 1 nap. Should I try cutting the nap back from 20-15 minutes on the 2 nap day to try to bring in the second nap and BT? It seems to be working okay as is, but isn't very constant for him....
Trimbler - that does sound like my son a lot, actually. We had that same schedule not too long ago, and then this week, he slept until 9 on Wednesday, had 1 nap, BT around 6:30 which meant up earlier on Thursday, and then later today. Did you have that?
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Well, we had quite the interesting past couple of days. I don't think M was ready for a 20 minute nap, or we weren't getting him down early enough for his second nap because we had nap struggles/short naps all weekend. He would take longer to settle and/or wake up after 1.5-1 hr 45 minutes, which hasn't been enough. I'm happy with that 2 hr second nap!
So back to 30 minute first nap, to try to balance things out again. If it starts pushing his BT back too late then I will try cutting his am nap a bit more, but really making sure to reduce his A time. It seems like 5-10 minutes off the first nap and he could only make it 2.5 hrs until the next. We were doing 3 (instead of 3.5) and he seemed to meltdown quickly.
I think I'm going to keep an EASY journal for a week or two to see if I find any patterns as well.
Happy Monday, here goes another week. Hopefully I can listen to M more and not try to push his A time out because of what he "should" be doing.
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Hi fellow sufferers!
I posted on the main board with my original 2-1 woes and we are down to 1 nap now but I am having a lot of trouble getting my LO to sleep for long enough. He seems to need a really long first A in order to take a nap of more than 1 hour, but the nap is often less than 1.5 hours no matter what ....
I had been trying a late PM CN if the first nap was short, but have experienced 2 problems: If he goes for his first nap after 6 hrs A and sleeps for 1hr 20mins, it makes it a bit too late to try for a CN. Secondly, on the last few occasions I have tried for a CN, it has been refused anyway!
Since going onto 1 nap the night sleep has improved and we haven't had a bad EW for some time (touch wood), but as his 1 nap is so short I have been doing an EBT, which means he is still waking closer to 6am than 7am, even if he does pull a 12hr night! His total sleep in a 24 hour period hasn't really changed, just switched around, but I am also worried that he will end up OT with such a short nap.
Below is our EASY for the last few weeks - I would be grateful for any input on where I might be going wrong!
UP A NAP LENGTH CN LENGTH BED NIGHT
06:47 06:04 12:51 02:00 00:00 00:00 19:40 11:31
07:11 06:15 13:26 01:44 00:00 00:00 19:40 11:04
06:44 05:26 12:10 01:35 16:35 00:30 19:45 11:11
06:56 05:09 12:05 01:05 00:00 00:00 18:25 12:14
06:39 05:36 12:15 00:50 15:05 00:40 19:01 11:34
06:35 06:08 12:43 01:21 00:00 00:00 18:50 11:45
06:35 05:53 12:28 02:28 00:00 00:00 19:50 11:10
07:00 05:25 12:25 01:52 00:00 00:00 19:20 11:36
06:56 06:02 12:58 01:24 00:00 00:00 19:00 11:29
06:29 05:40 12:09 01:18 00:00 00:00 18:26 11:55
06:21 05:49 12:10 01:00 00:00 00:00 18:39 11:51
06:30 05:45 12:15 01:15 00:00 00:00 18:35 11:36
06:11 06:19 12:30 01:23 00:00 00:00 19:04 10:56
06:00 06:45 12:45 01:31 00:00 00:00 18:38 11:55
06:33 07:27 14:00 01:00 00:00 00:00 18:35 13:08
07:43 05:52 13:35 00:54 00:00 00:00 19:12 11:17
06:29 06:09 12:38 01:02 15:22 00:27 18:57 11:54
06:51 05:19 12:10 01:25 00:00 00:00 19:13 11:38
06:51 05:24 12:15 01:15 00:00 00:00 18:51 12:11
07:02 05:35 12:37 01:13 00:00 00:00 18:42 11:35
06:17 06:00 12:17 01:24 00:00 00:00 18:37 11:25
06:02 05:48 11:50 01:25 00:00 00:00 18:25 11:45
06:10 03:30 09:40 01:00 14:45 00:41 19:13 04:47
Sorry to throw so much data in, but I thought it might paint a better picture rather than the odd day here and there!
He goes down for naps and BT quite happily as a rule and we have no NW (also touch wood!)
Thanks in advance!
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theu.s.lees - your plan sounds good to me, how's it going? We never actually did alternate 1 and 2 nap days, because DS goes to a childminder on Mon/Wed/Thu, so we didn't have the flexibility to allow him to lie in, and the afternoon nap time was pretty much fixed at the childminder's. So I just experimented with 1 nap days on Fri-Sun if we got a good WU time (so 1 day a week max!) until the clocks changed which meant he was getting up later and could then manage to make it to the afternoon nap time at the childminder's without his morning nap. But by that time he really didn't need his morning nap any more and had begun to really protest it!
Losh - I can't advise on the CN as we never tried it but did an earlier BT if he did a shorter nap. I know it's quite usual for LOs to take some time to lengthen their nap once they switch to 1 nap, mine certainly did. I see the best nap there came after an A of 5h53, after a night of 11h45. But when you next tried a similar A time it was after a night of 13h+ and you got a shorter nap. So it may be that you could adjust the A time a little according to how long the night was? But IIWM I wouldn't have let him sleep in so late that day (7:43) anyway. Do you follow cues or stick to A times/set times? Since our DS started at his childminder's at 11/12mo, we've had to set WU (ok, 'get out of cot') times and nap times and I think this may have helped him set his body clock. At the moment I see that WU times have varied a lot - I'm quite familiar with that too, but I always fix the time when I actually get him up - so if he wakes early, we go in to try and resettle him, and even if he doesn't go back to sleep it's quiet-ish time for him. If he's still asleep at that time then we wake him. From your data I might suggest trying something similar and see if that helps set his day? Or maybe wait until you get a 11.5-12h night and an acceptable WU time and try a 5h50ish A time. What I've heard is that at this stage a nap < 1.5-2h is often OT, however there also comes a time when they may even need their naps trimmed in order to get a good night. However I suspect this isn't yet the case for you, as your nights are nice and long. HTH?? It is so confusing for all of us!
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Losh - his first A time is far too long hun. It really should only be about 5 hrs for the first few months after moving to one nap. I would really do all I could to get him down after 5-5.5 hrs in the morning.. he could be giving you refusals as he is so OT. As Trimbler said, any nap less than 2 hrs (even 1 hr 50) is OT when starting with one nap... the trimming of that nap will be a ways off yet. DD moved to one nap at 11 months 1 week and we are *just* entering nap capping now and not every day... she is almost 18 months old.
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Thanks for the replies.
Trimbler, I thought afterwards that the same A after a long night was probably the problem, but I have been trying to be consistent with the A times and neglected to think about the night sleep on that day! He isn't the best with his sleepy cues so I tend to stick with a maximum A time. We were out the other day and I tried to get him to nap on Granny's bed, but it took me a long time (that was the day with the 7+ hr first A :-[) and to be quite honest, he was full of beans and not at all looking tired until about 10 mins before I finally got him off (on the sofa in the lounge in the end)!
As for the late WU, we have gone without an alarm clock since having Sam as he is a very effective alarm clock, so it was only when I woke up that I realised how late it was! TBH, it would never have occured to me to wake him though ...... he had just an hour nap the previous day so I just thought he was catching up. Would you wake at the same time every morning no matter how long he had napped for or what time BT was?
The day he had the mega nap of 2.28, I woke him up though because it had got to almost 3pm and I was worried the BT would end up super late and my day really long. Was this a bad move do you think? I hated to do it, but didn't want an UT EW.
Kara, I have tried shorter 1st A, but these seem to result in 50 minute naps, which I was told was UT? He goes down happy enough for his first nap whether it is 3 or 6 hrs A - he is very odd!
I rather thought that the 1hr 20mins naps were OT, but as his nights seemed to have sorted themselves out, rather hoped that it was working anyway, sigh!
How early a BT would you recommend if his nap is short?
Thanks again.
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Losh - I'm sorry I can't remember, how old is Sam? We hung onto the morning nap longer than we really needed to for him, he was 18mo and apart from a few days at the beginning, we never got > 2h naps. But then I realised we'd hit the 18mo regression at the same time and his sleep needs had decreased and A times leaped at around the time we stopped making him take a morning nap! I've no idea though whether your LO is at this stage or doing the 2-1 earlier than ours?
I would always wake at the same time but that's often out of necessity anyway... although I think I would try to stick to the same time even if it weren't, just because I think it helps M to stabilise his day. But that's not to say that yours will be the same. Must have been a nice surprise when he woke so much later :)
What A times and nap times was he doing before making the switch? Might just help to work out what he's likely to need now? And I forgot to ask earlier - do you try to resettle him if he wakes early, how and for how long?
As for EBT - we've found that this just doesn't work for M any more, although we'd try PD ~15mins earlier if he's not slept well. But it still takes him ages to get to sleep at BT, this is our issue at the moment! But when it did work for him, it was a matter of compromise. Too early and he might not be able to get to sleep for ages anyway or wake early; too late and he's terribly OT and has lots of early evening NWs and EW. I always felt it was better to err slightly early - if they then wake early but refreshed in the morning, it's easier to work with them and even stretch them a little longer until nap time. If they're prone to EW when OT (is yours?) then that just makes everything harder the next day. However, now we do the opposite - if he EWs when OT after a poor sleep day, it's easier for him to go back to sleep. Why do they keep changing just when we think we've worked them out?? :)
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A quick question...for the am CN, do you start timing as soon as you put him down or do you count from when he settles to sleep?
Today Milo was tired when I put him down for his CN, but it took him 40 minutes to settle. He wasn't crying, just moaning, a little sitting up and down and such. He was worked up, I think, from kid's club at the gym (an entirely different issue) where he was away from me. Anyway, he finally was asleep at 10:30 (which I'm usually waking him up at 10:15 from his 30 minute nap) so I'm waking him at 11. What would you do? Will that make his A time longer or about the same to his second nap do you think?
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Hi Trimbler,
Sam was 15 months on 30th April.
Before we started the 2 – 1 he had been doing 1.5hrs am and 1.5hrs pm. Around November that 2nd nap started getting shorter and coincided with me pushing the am nap out. I was planning on doing away with the PM nap once the AM nap was later and by the end of November our EASY looked like this:
Awake 6.30, nap at 10.30 – 12.00, nap 15.00 – 15.45 and BT 7pm
Our problems initially began in mid December when he started nursery. He started short napping then and it would take me a day or 2 before I could get him back on to a longer nap, by which time it was almost time to go back to nursery! (He goes 2 days a week). He also started with the 5 / 5.30am wakings then. At first I would bring him into bed with me and bf back to sleep, but after a while he wouldn’t go back to sleep.
It was around this time I first posted about the EW on BW. The replies I got back suggested that we were in the 2 – 1 and that a long am nap and a short pm nap was a likely cause of the EW and I should swap the naps and PD no earlier than 9.30am and cap at 30 mins and then PD 3 hrs after WU and leave him sleep. This did seem to help somewhat with the EW, but he would only occasionally nap longer than an hour at the 2nd nap, so was ending up with less sleep than before!
After nearly 3 months of doing this I posted in BW again and that was when I started doing the longer first A and offering a CN if the nap was short. It also coincided with him moving up to the next room at nursery, where they all have 1 nap around 12.15.
I used to try and resettle him with shush/pat and PU/PD, but as he got older it so very, very rarely worked and I have been known to climb into the cot with him and bf him back to sleep – crazy :-[. I usually don’t bother anymore but I have on occasion used WI/WO recently to combat an EW. These days he just gets upset up tries to climb up me to get out of his cot! He has recently learnt to say ‘up’ and he yells this and points to the door, so I usually take the hint! ;)
Also after saying I don’t get NW, he hard a really hard time settling last night and woke up twice, around 8.30pm and 9pm. The first time I lay him down and rubbed his back to get him back off and the second time left him to it and he went back off after a couple of minutes. He has done the same tonight, but I don’t know if this is OT or illness related. He has been drooling really badly for the past 2 days and has a nasty rash around his mouth. I was assuming it was teething related, but after thinking a bit more and taking a few other things into consideration, I am now wondering whether it is Hand, Foot and Mouth ….. That is another post in itself though!
As for EBT, Sam always falls asleep on the breast on a EBT so I know he is defintely tired and we almost always get a long night out of him, so it works for us, but I have always been reluctant to PD too early - didn't want to over-egg that pudding! I always thought EW was OT, but have had EW after days when he napped well (maybe just habit by that time though?) TBH, I am so bloody confused with the whole thing I don't know whether I am coming or going! ::)
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theu.s.lees: time from when he falls asleep :)
I know this is way too late to help, but I would have gone for a shorter A after a later CN, as he would have been OT by the time he finally fell asleep - but pm nap would probably still be a bit later than usual. So in that situation I would have been inclined to do a slightly shorter CN, and pull the second A time right back :)
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Papaya, you were right on. It was a bit late, but will help in the future and helps to explain the rest of the day.
The past two days have been good (knock on wood). We started a 25 minute am CN, with 3 hrs A time to the afternoon nap, where he's sleeping around 2 hrs (+/-). Then 4 hours of A time before bed. He's been happy, we've been happy. Let's just hope we can keep up on it and watch for small changes hinting at needing to cut the am nap again.
Thank you for everyone's help.
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Yay, glad to hear things are going well! (Hope he doesn't change things on you too soon ::) ;))
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Hey girls, I hv a question, this 2-1 thing is tricky hey...my LO has been flopping between twoband one nap for the past two months... She is 16months and used to do a twenty min cn about 10am and then a good hour and a half three hours after waking from cn.. Over past week or so the second nap has gotten shorter and shorter and yesterday was only an hour... Today I tried for one nap, put her in cot at 1140am and she was asleep by 1145 but only slept an hour and a half, should I put her to bed a little later maybe?? Any suggestions would b great!! Thanks, Charly xx
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What's your WU? That sounds like a good time to start with one nap (or even a little earlier if your WU is before 7 - we had nap at 11.15 to start with ;)). I would stick with it for 4-5 days to see if that nap lengthens out as she gets used to just having the one. Until it does, EBT can help to avoid OT!
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Well this morn she woke at 650am.... And I was running late at the dr so got her into bed at 12. She woke at 120pm very unhappy... So thinking OT? Should I aim for 1130 am tomorrow... Generally what 4.5hrs from WU? Thanks for advice xx will put her to bed early tonite!!
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Yeah, anything under 2hrs is probably OT at this stage. Is 7am your usual WU? I'd do an 11.30 nap and stick with it for several days so she has a chance to get used to it - if the nap is short, do EBT, but do the same nap time the next day. My LO did 13 hr nights when we first made the jump, for the first time in her life, so we only needed 4.5hr A either side of a good nap. After a week you'll probably be able to push the nap later by 15 mins :)
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Ok cool thanks will try tomorrow and be consistent with 1130... She generally wakes between 630 and 7am. If she wakes at 630 should I do 11am? Or is that too early?
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Will she be happy if you leave her in the cot til 7 and say your day starts then? I'd try to keep the nap time fairly consistent and see how you go, maybe put down 10 mins early if she is awake early and seems really tired.
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Any tips on what it means if my son always struggles with the last hour of sleep in the morning? He WU between 6:30 and 7 am, but starting around 5:50 - 6:15 he will cry out, then resettle quickly and go back to sleep. Then 10-15 minutes later, he will do it again, readjusting how he's sleeping in the crib. Plus, no matter what time he goes to bed (5:30 if poor napping to 7:30 for a good nap day) he always wakes up between 6:30 & 7 with the same struggles.
Typical day is
7:00 WU
10:00 CN (25 minutes)
1:30-1:45 Nap (approx 2 hours, if 2.5 we generally wake him up)
7:00 - 7:300 BT (or 3 - 3.5 hours after he wakes up from his nap)
Thank you.
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Could he be teething? My LO is always really unsettled in the early hours, and usually has an EW, when she's teething...
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We figured out that my son is sick (sad), only because the entire family came down with the stomach bug. I thought I had food poisoning because it came on so quickly for my and DH, but I think we all have/had some form of flu.
Given that, if he needs extra attention to go down at night (to be held to sleep), is this a horrible idea? He's been getting horrible gas/diarrhea just before bed and so he'd start screaming if we put him in his crib. Finally he'd relieve it but then struggle to settle. He would be fine in my arms. Should I worry about helping him so much while he's sick? He's barely eating, but been in good spirits during the day, and doing okay (except for today) with his naps. I hate to have him feel that I'm not there when he really needs me.
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do what you have to while he is sick hun... common to need extra snuggles and such for sure!
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hey girls, have been trying to be really consistent with the 1130am put to bed for nap, however I'm only getting one hour and a half and today i got just an hour. Poor thing is getting big bags under her eyes and i know she must be tired, but we just can't seem to get a decent nap. I keep putting her to bed early at say 620 or 630pm, she will usually sleep until 630am-7am. Should I keep persisting with the 1130am, my girlfriends all keep saying put her down later at say 1230 for her to sleep longer? Do you think this is correct?? I don't want her to get even more overtired. I did last week try to put a two nap day in there to see whether she napped better, but she ended upi doing 20mins at 945 and then three hours after wakeup I tried to get her to nap again for a decent nap and she only napped 50mins. So does that mean she has moved on from 2 nap days?? I thought that when they start to take shorter and shorter naps in arvo it meant they were ready to move to 1 nap? Sorry I'm rambling, just really want her to have a decent nap but we never seem to get there??
Any help would be really appreciated!!!
Thanks, Charly xx
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Charly - From what I've read (honestly, we are not to just one nap yet), 1.5 hrs and under is OT. Try putting her down a little earlier for her nap. You should be able to eventually move that back a little bit, but I think for right now, she's too tired by nap time. It may bring in her BT or the need for a CN.
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1.5 hrs and under is OT.
Actually, anything under 2 hrs is generally OT :)
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Is that true if there is only one nap? My son still has a CN and a regular nap, so I'm happy with 2 hrs!
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Yes ma'am! Once they move to one consistent nap - many will do a week or more of nice lovely 2.5 - 3 hr naps and 11-12 hr nights until the adapt to the longer A times... then the nap shortens to 2-2.5 hrs for a few days and OT hits them hard very quickly... then you get a few days of 1 hr 10 min - 1 hr 50 min naps (these are OT) so EBT is needed to catch them up again.
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I feel like every time i go to an earlier time she just naps shorter and shorter, for example the other day i put her down at 1115 and she napped for 50mins, where as if i put her down at say 1130 or 1145 she'll nap 1hr20-1hr30. Am so confused...do u think i should stick with trying for one nap or go back to the two naps, even though that is not really working either? Sorry just confused.....
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Don't move her nap earlier... keep her nap at the same time (you want to have at least a 90 min nap). You move BT to an earlier time if her nap is too short hun.
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ok will try that again tomorrow. Today she woke at 520am I brought her in bed with me and managed to get another half hour sleep out of her, she woke for the day at 630. I put her in bed for her nap at 1120 cos she was so tired all morning and she slept 1hr 20. Im considering going back to 2 naps maybe?? I put her to bed tonite early and she was asleep at 625pm. How long did your LO do short naps in the transition period? Thanks for your help Kara xx
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It was a couple weeks of short naps for ds1.
I got ds2 on 1 nap today. I had gone back to 2 naps but have been struggling with ew lately so am trying 1 nap again.
I did 4hrs 40 a time and got a 1hr10 ot nap but resettle until 2hrs when the phone woke him. I ended up with a 5hr a time to bt but it would have been less but he took 25min to sleep, def ot. I have fx for a decent night. I put k to bed early in case b is up early as k is getting really ot since I moved b into his room because of all the ew.
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Hugs KM! So tough when they are sharing a room...
We had a couple of weeks of intermittent short napping... she would be great one day and nap 2 hrs +, then we would have 3 days of short naps/EBT and then a couple more good days etc...
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I'm still to get a good 2hr nap :( today she slept in till 730am, had a pretty restless nite, so I let her sleep in that extra half hr.... I put her in bed for her nap at 1130 cos she seemed so tired, she slept for 1hr 20 again :( she wakes happy but she must be so OT. Not sure if I should keep on with the one nap or try and go back to 2naps.... Have been doing the 1nap for over a week, nearly 2weeks, andvshe has never slept over 1hr35. I know I keep asking the same question just really over the 1hr20 min naps...
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I'm not sure what is going on with DS. Last week we had all gotten a stomach virus which upset the balance of naps/nighttime sleep for everyone. Mid-week, I decided to let him sleep longer for his first nap and then do a CN later in the day. MY DH has wanted to switch to a long am short pm for a while, so we kept it that way the rest of the week. While there have been a few struggles with getting the timing of the CN (can't be too close to dinner or he's too hungry, can't go too early, or too late, etc.). But yesterday things were okay. The day was
8:00 am - Woke him up (restless night, so we let him sleep in an hour)
10:30 am - 1 pm - Nap
4:15 pm - put him down for CN. Took him a while to settle, a bit OT I think.
5:00 pm - Woke him up from CN
7:15 BT - He fell asleep around 7:30
This morning he woke up at 5 am. DH was super tired so he just gave him a bottle. He woke up around 7:15-7:30.
My only thought is that he was a bit OT at BT so we had the EW. We had taken him out on his new bike (!) but since it had taken a little longer than expected to build, we were out a little longer. Any thoughts?
Thank you!
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Charly have you tried resettling at the 1hr20 wu? I did just that today and he slept another 1.5hrs.
We did get hrly wu from 1.30 until 7.30am last night though so i am glad we got a better nap today as he must have been OT. He fell asleep on his breast this evening which he rarely does so he must have been really tired. maybe the 3hr nap and 11hr day will help him.
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Hey khalams mama I hv never been able to resettle after a nap wu, thru the nite seems to be okay but yeah for naps that's it no resettle....last nite I had to bf her to sleep cos she was so OT and wouldn't settle for bed. She was asleep by 640pm though. So hard this transition hey... Today I put her to bed at 1125 and again she slept 1hr 20 :( boo!
I even took her for a ride in car this morn to see if she'd go back to having 2 naps but nope no cn in the car... Oh well guess keep trying...
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DH and I are now at wits end. It has been weeks since we've had a "good day" he either naps well but sleeps horribly at night, or naps poorly and sleeps worse. Here was yesterday's EASY
4a-5:45 am Woke up, upset, I tired everything to settle him, holding his hand in the crib, diaper change, bottle. Finally I held him to almost asleep and then he finally went to sleep.
8 am - Woke him Up (he went to grandma's for the day)
11 - 1:30 Nap
5:15 BT - DH tried for 30 minutes, then we let him up for another 25
8 - Finally asleep
He only went to sleep after DH held him to sleep.
I know we should've tried to get his CN in, but the day started so late that it didn't seem possible to fit in. Around 4 DH thought about putting him down, but didn't think he seemed tired.
We can't just hold him to sleep (he still has a little bit of a cough and runny nose, but still) as I fear we are AP, but he won't settle any other way.
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Theu.s.lees don't worry I hv been totally APing my DD to bed, I lie next to her on our bed then end up transferring her to her cot, I think she's so OT she finds it very difficult to settle herself at BT after a long a time and short nap. If I can get her into bed asleep by 630pm her nights are usually okay thank god, I'd say u had a terrible nite cos he went to bed finally at 8pm... How old is your LO? Such a hard time this 2-1 hey, makes for a very crabby bubba....hope u hv a good day/nite...sorry I don't hv any great ideas for u as I'm still struggling with it all too xx
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Kara - so if my DS is only taking one nap but it is more than 2 hours, and he's getting about 11.5-12 hours of sleep a night, he should be okay? We seem to have settled things down, but he still won't take an afternoon CN. Yesterday his nap was for 3 hours (yippee), but he woke up at 1:00 and didn't go to bed until 7:30. That seems like a long stretch since he woke up at 7 and went down at 10:00 for his nap.
Question. If I slowly try to move his nap out to more mid-day will his BT get later?
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Charly - Thanks, that makes me feel better! I somehow missed your post..... DS is 14 months old. So I thought we had more time before he was ready to give up one of his naps, but lately he seems to only want to take one. When we had a short am long pm, he'd fight the pm no matter how we tried to adjust his A time. Then he'd struggle to settle at BT. We sort of gave up on the CN, though we tried yesterday he just didn't seem tired. He did okay at BT. We started up with more quiet time after reading his stories (which we used to do but he slowly would need it less and less and tell us he's "all done"). DH did that last night and he only woke once for a minute or two (I went in there to put my hand on him, and he laid back down).
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Ok- so we're sitting here AGAIN with DS after bed time as he had 2 naps- he just can't stay awake in the car!! If he doe do a short morning nap in the car say- should i cap the afternoon nap at 4pm or something? I know- you're thinking Kara 'Didn't i tell Katy about a month ago to go to one nap?' Yes.. yes... i know!
The other question- at mums while i'm at work he will usually do one nap ith her at 11.30 or so- but he often only does 1.5 hours.. is this ok? or is this an OT nap? he rarely does a 1.5 hour nap with me- Ideas?
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K would only sleep less at mums and more at home. It did lengthen out a bit. Wonder if the light sleep phase let's them rouse to see they are somewhere exciting.
Do you put him down that time too?
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At home if we don't do the morning nap we put him down at 11.30 o so.. but we usually do do a morning nap.. Do i need to just really focus on ditching the morning nap?
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Katy - when they go to one nap anything under 2 hours is considered OT.
How long is the am nap atm?
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can anyone offer us some wisdom?? We are on a 45/50 min am nap and longer pm...
she never does more than 2-2.15 hours so the pm is usually only about 1.05-1.15...
Keeping her up for 4.5 hours and letting her sleep does not get us a good nap either.
So...do I cap the am more or keep her up for 5 hours and then let her sleep.
I should add she wakes between 5.30-6am so not great for getting to one nap ;)
What to do???
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Well- i'm not one to add wisdom.. BUT if i were you i'd try capping that first nap to a mini nap- 20-30 mins say.. then you might get a better PM nap... perhaps... that before the jump to one nap. I would wonder too perhaps if the EW isn't being caused in part/helped by the 2 naps.. you might see some improvement if you get ruthless?
Our morning nap is something like 15/20 mins- and at home he will then have a MASSIVE nap from 1 or 1.30 or so for a couple of hours. At mums though he only does the short nap and she often doesn't do the morning nap- so a nap at 11.30 or so...
Today though we had a series of miracles (i don't ask for much..) First miracle- he stayed AWAKE in the car all morning- as in on a number of car trips- then had a nap from 12.30-2.36- so i thought this was pretty good. THen we went out in the evening and mum looked after him. He went to sleep like a dream- BUT woke at 10.30/11 or so and wouldn't go to sleep without me home.. and is now having a bit of a cot party at midnight after a feed!! (usually the feed is like a magic wand...) Does that sound like something to do with 2-1? Or possibly just him being all out of whack because mum was here instead of us?
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Hi Becky - just to say I'd agree with Katy, try capping that first nap further. Our DS could only ever take gradual changes, so we would literally shave 5mins off at a time, let him adjust and then see if we needed to do more. Partly due to childcare arrangements, and partly as it seemed to work for a while, we'd always start the am nap at a consistent time, so if he woke early, he wouldn't end up well rested after a capped am nap, but was a bit more refreshed after a longer pm nap, and would eventually tag the missed night-time sleep onto the next morning, getting later WU times. But, having said that, early WUs were a common occurrence until we went to one nap. On the other hand the two naps can still enable them to be relatively well rested - I guess if you're getting to the point where the nights are just too short to be restorative, even with say, a 10-20mins morning nap, then you may need to take the plunge...
Katy - does sound to me like the 1 nap is coming soon! We had a period where we'd experiment with the 'optimum' time for the nap, whilst DS was at home over the weekend (at childminder's Mon, Wed, Thu) - so when we had a decent WU on a Fri/Sat, we'd play around a bit with timings. He'd always have the 2 naps on childminder days, which meant it didn't matter too much whether he had a bad night/EW, as he could catch up with her. I agree that 1.5h is most probably OT at this age/stage, so maybe try a little earlier than 11:30, if that's ok with your mum? If that doesn't work and if he's definitely showing signs of an UT nap then you may be able to try going the other way, but proceed with caution :) How long are his A times after a long nap at home, generally? You may be able to use that as a guide to how long you can safely stretch his morning A?
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thanks girls. She was OT at bedtime last night so not the best night. Going to let her have 45 mins today but will start to shave it back by 5 mins every few days - thanks for the suggestion trimbler. I like to do things gradually with her when it comes to sleep.
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so after that she did 45 mins in the am yesterday and a 1.5 nap....
still a 5.30am wake up though.
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Help! I posted before when my LO was doing only one nap, but sleeping from 6pm til 8am. Well, that has all gone out the window now, so I'd love some advice!
We've had some problems recently that I think may have contributed to the bad sleeping: molars coming down, tummy bug, trip away where he slept in a tiny cot and kept banging his head on the bars, DH away for a week.
He has reflux, and I'd been weaning him off his meds (omeprazole) but started him up again last friday as he's still spilling a lot and broken sleep was one of our key problems with uncontrolled reflux.
He has starting waking earlier, so 1 nap doesn't work, but he's also been sleeping really badly during the night. Saturday for example he woke up every 1:10 (he has a 35 min sleep cycle) crying unconsolably.
He's also started refusing to go down at bt. He had been refusing his pm nap, so I've started capping his am nap to an hour. He now goes down fine for naps, but won't sleep at night unless he is rocked, he then wakes quite often once he's down. Last night was his best night in a while and he went to bed at 7:30 (had to be rocked) then woke at 8:05 and took till 8:30 to go back to sleep. He then woke at 12 because he'd jammed himself into a corner of his cot. The night before however he went to bed at 7:00 (rocked) then woke at 7:35, 8:10, 8:20, 9pm, 10:10, 11:20, 2:40, 4am, 6:30 up for the day.
Is the BT refusal and NW early in the night OT? It's so frustrating that he goes to sleep happily and independently for naps but no longer for BT.
This is the EASY I did yesterday, and what I've been trying to do, adjusting to the time he wakes up.
WU: 6:30
A 2.5hrs
S: 9-10 (cap at 1 hour)
A 3 hours
S 1-3 (let sleep for as long as he needs)
A 4.5 hours
BT 7:30 (13 hour day)
Today he woke at 6am, so everything has shifted 1/2 hour earlier.
If he's OT should I continue this routine or let him sleep as long as he needs to in the AM? He definitely would have slept longer this morning if I'd left him. Or if he's OT at BT should I give him a 4 hour A time before bed? He's gone from sleeping 16 hours a day to 13-14 hours but with fitful nights. I think the long night sleeps he was doing were catching up on sleep after his first lot of molars came down, so I didn't expect that to last, but it seems like he needs more sleep than he is getting.
Thanks in advance!
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It really looks like discomfort to me - I would give the meds a couple weeks to work fully and reassess.
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Thanks Kara, any tips for how to deal with the screaming in the meantime?
He doesn't respond to PU/PD and at the moment is just getting really agitated, even when I cuddle him. He is sick again with an infection of the intestines, so is in pain - and just will not sleep!
He's a spirited baby if that helps.
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Oh poor him and poor you :( I really wouldn't do PU/PD while there's any hint of reflux or other health problem hun. If he's in pain, the best thing you can do is give him those mummy cuddles - they will be comforting him, even if he's still not sleeping well. Is he on medication for the infection? Really hope he's feeling better soon :-*
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ok well the last 2 days we have been waking after 45 mins in the am and then she has been fighting the pm after 3.5 A.....this was what was working so I guess I need to cut back to 30 mins. I am so scared because last time I did this she never napped well in the pm and just got OT but i hate the nap fighting and it seems that if she fights it she only ends up doing 30 mins anyway which is a nightmare.
Do you think 3 hours after 30 mins is about right?
I guess i need to give it a go.....I can try one nap in about 2-3 weeks once dH is around a bit.
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I remember finding there was a big difference between 30 and 45 mins Becky, in terms of what A my LO could handle after it. I think because now you really are waking in the middle of the sleep cycle. So I think I'd be inclined to say 2hrs45... :-\ Good luck!
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uggh, i just don't get her. For the second day she has fought it and then woken after 30-40 mins so her total day sleep will be 1.15 for the second day. If I do WIWO she goes nuts but staying in the room and she just messes about. I hope it is not OT..but she has been handling that fine so I guess it is UT??? Nightmare.
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but she has been handling that fine so I guess it is UT???
If nothing else has changed, then I would think so.... :-\ I'd cap further tomorrow. It can't get much worse than today really can it, in terms of total day sleep.
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guess not....unless it is teeth?
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there has to be some logic to this girl but I struggle to find it. She went to bed at 6.30pm no problems. That does not say OT baby to me but how can she not be? I don't get her, it is official. I think in 2 weeks when DH is about I will just do a 1 nap day and see. It can't be much worse than it is now.
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Hugs Becky I truely feel your pain.
we have been trying to do 2x 1hr naps but it is worse than ever.
I just want to be on one nap already.
B is fighting naps and bt. A good 45min crying session for every sleep.
I want to do one nap but dh is reluctant to keep him awake when he never sttn anyway.
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hugs KM - it is so hard. For some freaky reason we got a 7am wake up yesterday. She did wake at 5 and 5.45am but put herself back, I can only think she was just so tired from 1.15 nap the day before. We did one nap and she did great. Can't do one today though as have a 12pm pick up and she was up at 6am so although better, not quite late enough. Going to do 30 mins at 9.45am I think and then a proper nap (ha ha) at 1.15pm. Basically she will hardly sleep I am sure!!
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In the midst of the bt fight. Dh aimed for 1 nap but only got 1hr 5min. He did a 30 min cn at 3.15. I am aiming for bt at 8 but he does not seek tired. I wonder if I should just do ebt after a long early nap and seek to push it all later some time?
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I think I am going to try that in a week or two when DH is around a bit more....
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Ok- i'm sorry that i'm not offering thoughts and advice... but i honestly have no idea!! SO- Last week we mucked it up. We jumped to one nap and thiat worked ok for a bit and then died in the @rse... Then we had 2 naps for a couple of days- but they were finishing at 4/5pm- BT close to 9!!
SO- today- back on track.. one nap- 2.5 hours from 12-2.30- Then BT WOULD have been ok but we were out.. but i think we had the schedule ok..
SO- should i:
a) keep going with one nap till it shortens- then offer a day of 2 naps?
b) right away offer a 2 nap day tomorrow... alternating days for a bit?
Last week the naps just got shorter and shorter till we had a night with multiple night wakings in part due to OT..
Thanks ladies!!!!
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I'd be inclined to keep up the one nap Katy - and make up any shortfall with EBT. UNLESS tonight is a disaster because of the late night and you get an EW - then I might do two ;)
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No- we've been lucky and the EWings have not really been EWings.. so we don't have to make up for it in that sense. What if it shortens to less than 2 hours after a couple of days again? We just found that the naps just stayed short after they dropped.... I'm happy to trust you on this- but DH is home for 2 weeks to manage the situation! not sure if that's good or bad!
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What time are you doing the nap? Does EBT help in your house?
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Hello ladies. I was accidentally posting on the Naps Forum instead of the Toddler forum
I have a 15 month old that has been a great sleeper for some months now. (After a terrible first 11 months or so.)
Here is a good day schedule:
Wake: 6am
Snack: 6:30
Breakfast: 7:30
First Nap: 9am - 10am
Lunch: 12
Second nap: 2 - 3 sometimes 1:30 - 3
Dinner: 5:30 or 6
Bedtime: 7
STTN
Lately we have had a few 5:30 wakeups after he resettles at 4:45 (maybe 2-3x/week for two weeks). He is teething and has been for 3 weeks. We have had two days where he completely skipped a nap or pushed the schedule by more than 1.5 hours in two weeks. Mostly, I would say this baby still really needs two naps. My husband thinks the suggestion that the baby might want one nap is crazy. I tend to agree but I am not sure if a few teeth can really explain this. I feel like for three weeks i have been watching things get harder and harder with regards to nap/bedtime and I am just not sure that teething is the only culprit.
The ladies on the Naps forum said his morning A time is too short which I agree with. ALso, yesterday he wouldn't take his first nap and fell asleep at 10:30 within a minute of being put in the car. He slept for an hour and skipped second nap. Then BT at 6:30 and he slept solidly until 6:15 - his longest sleep EVER. So, today am planning to wait for his cues in the morning and probably not put him down before 10, def not before 9:30.
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We're doing the one nap at about 12 and that's working well.. EBT hasn't always worked... He doesn't always buy it...
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I wouldn't worry toooo much so long as it's over 2 hours. If it drops below that it could be OT. Do you mean he doesn't settle for an EBT? I wonder if it needs to be earlier ;) Failing that, perhaps nap 15 mins earlier next day?
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YEah- he doesn't settle for an EBT usually... hmm= we may not shoot early enough..
We were finding that they'd drop down as low as 1.5 hours.. I'll see how we go today. We have to go to the hairdressers so things are a bit mucked up, but we're just going to go for a slightly earlier nap.
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M has only been doing about 1.5 for her nap when we have done 1 nap days but she does do a longer night then. Last night proved that as she had a 1.5 nap from 2-3.30pm (plus 30 min am) and then woke at 5.45am today...we do need to get to 1 nap now, just scared of the inevitable OT. I actually think M is quite low sleep needs though.
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Have you been alternating days becky? Is it done that you work slowly on having more and more days on one nap? you know- instead of every second day say as a 2 nap day, move to every 3rd? then every 4th? That might be a slower transition? It could also be a stupid suggestion- Nuala will probably just say to go to one...
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Hey ladies :)
As we have reached 30 pages I will lock this, but please continue here http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=233197.0
:)