BabyWhispererForums.com
ACTIVITY => E.A.S.Y. Forum => Topic started by: Kymmi13 on June 10, 2013, 21:09:24 pm
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DS will be turning 5 months on 6/15.
We are on a nice 3hr EASY for awhile. Then, he started to roll and waking around 3am at night - this lasted for about a week. I would feed him and he would quickly go back to sleep and I would have to wake him at 7:30am (we were on a 7:30pm-7:30am schedule). He has put himself on a 4 hour EASY now.
For the past 4 days, he has been waking at 6am and has been messing up the EASY that was so nice. I'm hoping someone out there can help me tweak the schedule to get it back on track.
Here's his schedule from yesterday:
6am awake & complaining
6:20am - 6:40am fed and fell asleep on nursing pillow (I set him in his crib and he woke up)
6:40am - 7am in crib talking
S 8:30am - 9:35am
E 10am
A
E 12pm
S 12:25pm - 3pm (tried to set him down around 11am but he fussed. Set him down again at 12 and he fussed and shhh/pat until 12:25. Had to wake him at 3pm)
E 3pm
A
S 5pm - 6pm (had to wake him to keep a schedule)
E 6:30pm
A Bath
S 7:30pm
Then here's today so far:
6am - starting to stir and complain
6:10am fed and set down at 6:45am (babbled and rolled over onto side, but didn't sleep)
E 7am
A
S 8:30am - 9:30am
E 10am
A
S 11:15am - 12:15am
E 2pm
As you can see, we're all over the place now. I don't know if it's because we recently went to a 4 hr EASY and he's still adjusting or if it's because he's starting to hit a lot of milestones (rolling over, trying to crawl, standing, trying to walk, etc). He has a 2.5 year old sister that he is desperately trying to catch up with, so, when he's awake, all he wants to do is move. Sometimes, all he eats is 2 oz. and then he'll have a good feed of 6-7 oz. His A time is typically 2 hrs, but there has been one occasion in which it was so hard to get him down (after 3 attempts) that he ended up being up for 2.5/3 hrs but he slept for 2.5 hours. When he wakes, he is happy and wanting to play.
I'm concerned because prior to this, he was napping 2-3 hours at a time (I'd have to wake him almost every nap in order to keep the schedule) and he'd easily go to bed at 7:30pm and I'd have to wake him up at 7:30 am.
Am I just experiencing a growing boy that wants to play and might just naturally be needing less and less sleep? Or should I be cutting down the amount of sleep during the day so he sleeps better at night? He usually gets 3.5 - 5.5 hours during the day and 10.5-11 hours at night.
Thank you for your guidance. This site has saved my sanity!!
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I think it does have to do a lot with him growing and his sleep needs are changing.
Your naps seem UT to me and it looks like he is ready for some more A time. I would increase it gradually, by 10-15min every 3-4 days and stop once he gives you better naps (1.5-2h) but don't go over 2.5h yet, it might be too much for him.
I wouldn't let him nap for 2.5h at this anymore, not if you end up with an EW anyway. If he napped 2.5h and nothing was wrong with the rest of the day then it'd be ok. And the last nap should be a CN at this age, so you are looking more at 45min rather than an hour or more. He will be dropping this nap soon so it's better if his A times are slowly increased and this nap is shortened. It will be a smoother ride then.
I think that counting the A time in the morning is difficult right now because you let him fall asleep during the feed or put him down after the feed? If he is sleeping through his feed I will only start and count his A time from when eyes are opened.
HTH :)
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Hi,
So, this morning, I had planned to treat his 6am wake as the start of the day. DH went in and opened the blinds and got DS out of his crib and proceeded to change him. His fussing from wake up escalated to an all out scream/cry. He has never done this before in the AM, so, I rushed in there and fed him. DH then closed the blinds and I tried to set DS down again after the feed (my thinking here is that the 6am WU is really a NW). He chatted to himself and then army-crawled for 10-15 minutes. Each time I thought I should go and get him up for the day, he would lay his head down for a few minutes and be quiet. I know I'm really messing up the A time for the AM here, but, I keep on thinking he wants to sleep more.
So, here are my questions:
1. Do you think this is a NW or is 6am turning out to be his biological time to wake up? I've read other posts that would suggest 6/6:30am is a decent wake time.
2. If it is his growth and milestones that are affected his sleep, how do I help him sleep better and NOT have the EW? Do I just ride it out?
3. When should I start the A time in the AM? When he is truly out of his crib? Or when he's done with his feeding? When I feed him, he has eyes closed and is very calm. I wouldn't say he's really asleep, but, he's not awake either. He is definitely awake when I put him over my shoulder to burp and then stays awake in his crib for at least 15 minutes until he starts to wind down.
4. When I feed him at 6am, should I just get him up for the day at 6:30am (after his feed)? If he does fall asleep, that would be roughly around 7am, and his "normal" WU is 7:30am, so, not sure if it buys me anything for him to sleep 30 minutes and then get woken up (unless I should just let him sleep, and in this case, how long do I let him go)?
5. Just to be clear, I should cap his two naps at 2hrs and his CN at 45min.
6. Is eating less a sign of mental growth? The past few days, some of his feeds have gone down from 6/7oz to 2/3 oz. Part of me is thinking that his 6am WU is because he's hungrier than usual, but, I've offered him milk throughout the day and he refuses it. He has gone 5/6 hours without eating and then will eat only 2 oz. I will offer him milk again when he fusses after being up for 1.5 hrs, but he refuses it. I don't know what else to do other than to continue to try to get him to eat, but he just refuses it.
Thank you. I hope today goes better...and I will be trying to extend his A time to 2hrs 10/15 min.
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Do you think this is a NW or is 6am turning out to be his biological time to wake up? I've read other posts that would suggest 6/6:30am is a decent wake time.
It all has to do with the time he is going to bed in the evening. If he sleeps less than 11h then I would consider it a NW, but if he went to bed at 19 and woke up at 6 then that's probably his WU for the day.
If it is his growth and milestones that are affected his sleep, how do I help him sleep better and NOT have the EW? Do I just ride it out?
I don't think it's milestone, I think he is just growing up and as he will grow he will need slowly more and more A time. So by increasing his A time you are going to help him sleep better.
When should I start the A time in the AM? When he is truly out of his crib? Or when he's done with his feeding? When I feed him, he has eyes closed and is very calm. I wouldn't say he's really asleep, but, he's not awake either. He is definitely awake when I put him over my shoulder to burp and then stays awake in his crib for at least 15 minutes until he starts to wind down.
I would start counting from the moment you take him out of his room and start the day. If you tried and settle before hand and it didn't work then I'd count it as half A time.
When I feed him at 6am, should I just get him up for the day at 6:30am (after his feed)? If he does fall asleep, that would be roughly around 7am, and his "normal" WU is 7:30am, so, not sure if it buys me anything for him to sleep 30 minutes and then get woken up (unless I should just let him sleep, and in this case, how long do I let him go)?
Like I said it depends on BT. If he falls asleep again I would let him sleep till it's 12h from BT ('cause some babies need 12h day, 12h night and maybe that's how he likes it), so if BT was at 20:30 I'd let him sleep till 8:30. Though I think he will wake earlier than that. If he doesn't go back to sleep I will leave him be of he is not crying or try and resettle if he *is* crying till 7-7:30.
Just to be clear, I should cap his two naps at 2hrs and his CN at 45min.
That would be the way I'd do it, yes.
Even if you decide not to cap his 2 naps then the last one should defo be a CN.
Re the feeding, how many oz would you say he is taking in 24 hours? How is his weight gain? Have you tried spacing the feeds more? Like 4.5-5h between feeds to see if he takes more?
TBH, IIWY and I'd be worry about his feeding I would check with my ped.
Good luck!
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What does IIWY stand for?
For his food intake, it varies. He was eating quite a lot, then he wasn't. Today, he seemed to be having a good eating day. He's a big boy - almost 20 lbs and is in the 95% in weight, so, his weight gain is good. I suppose he just has days where he doesn't feel like eating much and then he makes up for it the next day.
Also, it seems that he just is fussy sometimes. There really isn't anything I can put my finger on...he wakes up happy most of the time, but after 15-20 minutes of being awake, he starts to fuss. Sometimes I think he's bored and other times I think he's hungry. If it's only been <3 hours, I try to entertain him the best I can. There's been a few times that I've fed him at the 3 hour mark and he only eats 2oz, and then there's been time where I've fed him and he'll eat 5-7oz. He's just all over the place. He's also a very easily distracted baby. So, we feed him in his room with the door closed. If we feed him out in the living room, he'll cut his feed short to go and play. Even sometimes in his room, if he knows his sister is awake, he'll eat just enough and then he'll be jumping out of our arms to play.
So, the past couple of days, I've been trying to extend his A time. We've had some luck...but, today, he had a NW at 4am and was complaining on/off for almost an hour. He wasn't crying - he was more talking to himself. He then started to complain after 50 minutes and then I went in and fed him and he fell right back to sleep and we had to wake him at 7am to start the day.
Here's the EASY from the last three days:
6/11
6am - awake & complaining
6:10-6:30am fed him and he fell asleep. Set him down at 6:30 and he woke up
6:30-7am on/off sleeping w/ no crying
E 7:10am (breastfed)
A
S 8:20am - 9:20am
E 9:50am (bottle 6oz)
A
S 11:25am - 12:45pm
E 1:10pm (bottle 6oz)
S 3pm - 3:45pm
E 5pm (bottle 4oz) * I split the last feeding. 4oz before bath, and breast feeding right after
A bath
E 5:45pm
S 6pm (cried out at 6:30pm and 7pm for < 1 min). (cried for 5min at 7:45pm from sister making too much noise)
6/12
7am - had to wake him up (yay! No NW)
E 7:10am (breastfed)
*was really fussy at 8:30am, so, thought he was hungry and fed him. He only ate 1.5 oz
A
S 9:15am - 11:20am
E 12pm (bottle 7 oz)
A
S 1:35pm - 2:35pm
E 3:30pm (bottle 6 oz)
A
S 4:35pm - 5:05pm - had to wake him
E 6pm (bottle 4oz) * I split the last feeding. 4oz before bath, and breast feeding right after
A bath
E 6:45pm (breastfed before bed)
S 7pm
6/13
4:20am making noises
5:05am fed him and he fell asleep. Set him in his crib at 5:25 asleep
7am woke him
E 7:30am (breast fed)
A
S 9:10am - 10:30am
E 11 (bottle 5oz)
A
S 12:45pm - 2:30pm - woke him
E 3pm (bottle 5oz)
A
S 4:30pm - 5:10pm - woke him
E 6:10pm (bottle 4oz) * I split the last feeding. 4oz before bath, and breast feeding right after
A bath
E 6:45pm (breast fed)
S 7pm
I know I'm not staying true to the 4 hour EASY, but, when he fusses really badly, I'm thinking he's really hungry. Sometimes, I get it right and he eats 5+ oz, and other times, he eats 2oz and it messes up the rest of the feeding schedule.
Do you have any suggestions to the schedule? I feel so much is still in flux right now and I can't get my head around what I should be doing (in terms of waking him or what time is best to start the day, etc). Also, it is very difficult to keep him up for just 2 hours after his CN (let alone trying to extend him to 2 hrs 10/15 min). He just seems super tired and cranky and I don't want to feed him to soothe him, but it's so difficult when he's such a bear.
Thank you so much for your suggestions. I really want to get him into a good rhythm. He was doing so well on the 3 hour EASY and it has just been recently that he's been waking up during the night and having bad naps. Do you think we just need to get him more tired during the day and lessen his day time sleep (compared to what he was getting) and that will help with his night time?
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What does IIWY stand for?
If I were you.
Looking at your EASY it just looks like you need to keep upping his A time and be more consistent with while you are increasing it. When increasing A you need to watch the clock more rather than him. Your NW also sounds Ut to me, so I believe that upping the A time is the solution to it all.
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For the past 3 days, I've been trying to up his A time. He did really well the first day, but, the second and third days were a complete mess. Here's the 3 day schedule:
Friday 6/14
4:55am - making noise
5:15am - breastfed and set him down and he settled around 6:05am
7:05am - woke him up
E 7:10am breastfed
A
S 9:10am - 10:50am - woke him up
E 11am bottle 6 oz
A
S 1:10pm - 2:35pm - woke him up
E 3pm 6 oz
S 4:40pm - 5:10pm
E 615 breastfed
S 7
Saturday 6/15
4am complaining
4:10am - 4:30am breastfed and fell asleep shortly after 4:50am
7am woke him up
E 7:10 am breastfed
A
S 9:15am - 11:10am
E 11:15am bottle 4.5 oz
A
S 1:20pm - 3:15pm
E 3:15pm bottle 6.5 oz
A bath @5:20pm
E 5:45pm bottle 5 oz
S 6pm was asleep after feed. Tried to burp him for 10 minutes and he woke up VERY upset. Took him until 6:35pm to fall back asleep. He had a mantra cry going for at least 20-25 min.
** I opted to skip the CT for this day since it would have pushed the BT so late. Looking at it now, he probably was way OT which probably screwed up the following day.
Sunday 6/16
12:40am making lots of noise
1:10am bottle fed 5oz - would have eaten more, but that's all that was in the bottle. Burped and fell right back to sleep
6:30 woke up by himself
E 6:35am breastfed
A
S 8:40am - 9:40am
E 10:10am bottle 4.5 oz
A
S 11:50am - 12:35pm
E 1:15pm bottle 5.5 oz
A
S 2:25pm - 3:15pm, resettled at 3:20pm but was crying on/off until 3:50pm. The cry was less than 2 min each time but occurred every 5-10 minutes during between 3:20pm and 3:50pm.
E 5:20pm bottle 6oz
A
E 5:50 breastfed before bed
S 6:10 fussed for about 5 minutes
So, I'm not quite sure how to take the last 3 days. Is this something that I just need to stick to and it's common for LO's to go haywire with the new A time? I'm baffled by the 1am wake up as well as the terrible naps the followed the day after. I'm not quite sure what to do now. We went from having to cap his naps to hoping he naps for at least 1 hour. And he still has a NW - is this habitual?? Or maybe not since he changed the time? I am so confused.
:'(
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Sorry I only get to answer now, I am in hospital.
NW are only habitual when they are around the same time every night, which doesn't seem to be the case. I think it was more because he didn't get enough day sleep that day and it effected his night.
How were the last couple of days? Things are back on track?
If you got good results on the first and second day (before the CN) then it's a good sign and IIWY Iw ould just stick to the new A times to give him enough time to get used to it.
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Hi. Thank you for your reply - sorry to hear about you being in the hospital. I hope it's nothing serious.
Here's the EASY for the last 3 days since my last post:
Monday 6/17
6:20am awake (no NW! yaaaay!)
E 6:30am breastfed
A
S 8:40am - 10:10am woke him up
E 10:30am bottle 7oz
A
S 12:20pm - 1:43pm
E 2:30pm bottle 7oz
A
S 3:50pm - 4:35pm
E 5:40pm bottle 6oz
A bath
E 6:15 breastfed
S 6:30pm
Tuesday 6/18
5:20am started to fuss
5:40am fussing a lot
5:45am - 5:50am bottle 5oz - would not go back to sleep after eating, so, up for the day
A
S 7:50am - 8:40am
E 9:30am bottle 7.5oz
A
S 11am - 11:40am - started to wake and then ssshh/pat from 11:45am - 12pm
S 12pm - 1:30pm - woke him
E 1:30pm bottle 7oz
A
S 3:45pm - 4:15pm
E 5:15pm bottle 5oz
A Bath
E 6:30pm breastfed
S 6:45pm
9:05pm - fussed for 10-15min
Wednesday 6/19
5:05am complaining
5:10 fed and changed him - he had peed completely through his PJ's and sleep sack
6:30am back asleep
7:10am woke him
E 7:10am breastfed
A
S 9:10am - 10:15am
E 11am bottle 6.5oz
A
S 12:25pm - 2:30pm woke him
E 3pm bottle 7.5oz
A
S 4:45pm - 5:37pm
E 6:30pm bottle 3oz
A bath
E 7 breastfed
S 7:40pm
Thursday 6/20
2:45am complaining/crying
3:15am bottle 6oz and changed - he had peed through his PJ's and sleep sack
5am complaining for 5-10 min then fell asleep
7am woke him - had a big poop, possibly why he was complaining at 5am?
E 7am breastfed
A
S 9:10am - 10:40 woke him
E 11am bottle 6.5oz
A
S 12:45pm
So, it looks like we go 3-4 days of him waking sometime during the night (almost always around 4am or 5am) and then we get a night where he sleeps completely through. The nights that he does sleep through, I've noticed that he only had 3hrs of daytime sleep.
Yesterday, I was trying to see if pushing his bedtime back by an hour will allow him to not have his NW, but, he had it earlier (2:45am). By the time DH warmed up a bottle and headed into DS room, he was settling down, but it was too late to stop him. I think he would have settled himself and gone back to sleep, but, I think he would have definitely but up a longer fuss at 5am.
I am sticking to the 2 hr 10min A time and he seems to barely make it. Today, he was so tired that I had to put him down earlier than usual. I am now capping his first two naps at 1.5 hrs each (unless he has a short first nap, then, I will let him sleep 2 hrs for his second nap) and his third nap at 30/45 min.
I'm not quite sure what to make of this now. I don't know if the increased A time is making a difference - he still has his NW. If he wakes after 5:20/5:30am, we almost always have to start the day as he will not go back to sleep after being fed. So, I find myself rushing into him once he starts to stir at 5am and then I can feed and get him back down and he'll fall back asleep around 6/6:30.
Also, he was on such a good schedule when he was 3-4 months. This NW started when he started to roll over and couldn't roll back. I think we might have done some AP since we would go into his room and roll him back over or feed him during that time (lasted about a week). Since then, he's been waking almost every night at 4am/5am. There has been two nights that he's slept through and two nights that he didn't woke up at a different time (this is all within the last 3-4 weeks).
I would appreciate any advice or suggestions. Do you think he is just one of the babies that only needs 10/11 hours of sleep at night? Or he is one of those babies that really needs to eat once during the night? Should I continue to cap his naps? How do I know that he's getting too much day sleep instead of not enough day sleep? I've read that if a baby doesn't get enough sleep during the day, it could affect the night sleep.
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Hi there, (((hugs))), I'm going to hop on here and see if I can't help out a bit.
So, it looks like we go 3-4 days of him waking sometime during the night (almost always around 4am or 5am) and then we get a night where he sleeps completely through. The nights that he does sleep through, I've noticed that he only had 3hrs of daytime sleep.
I think this is a good indicator that you need to just keep gradually pushing the A time out, bit by bit. I notice that sometimes he'll do a full nap in the morning after 2h10min A and sometimes he'll only do 1hr. I think the inconsistency means that it's not enough A time to always get a good nap, but on the days he needs to catch up he'll do one. I also notice that on the days he does 1hr am nap and you keep the second A to 2h10min, that's when he usually does the long nap of 2hr+, so again, I think in general his A time can be bumped a bit higher. I'm sure he does look tired and is ready to sleep at 2h10m, but at this age, those things can happen by habit too. Even if you have to go by 5min every few days, that will help.
Yesterday, I was trying to see if pushing his bedtime back by an hour will allow him to not have his NW, but, he had it earlier (2:45am). By the time DH warmed up a bottle and headed into DS room, he was settling down, but it was too late to stop him. I think he would have settled himself and gone back to sleep, but, I think he would have definitely but up a longer fuss at 5am.
I think this was an OT waking, from pushing BT back. If you want more A time during the day, it's best to add it spread out rather than all before BT.
I am now capping his first two naps at 1.5 hrs each (unless he has a short first nap, then, I will let him sleep 2 hrs for his second nap) and his third nap at 30/45 min.
This is fine, but until you get closer to 6/7mo and dropping the CN, I'd leave it at a full 45min for now, as that's one sleep cycle and he'll be better rested at BT from that than a 30min nap.
Since then, he's been waking almost every night at 4am/5am. There has been two nights that he's slept through and two nights that he didn't woke up at a different time (this is all within the last 3-4 weeks).
You could always try wake-to-sleep at 3am, if you feel it is habitual. How do I address habitual wakings? (wake-to-sleep and other methods)
Do you think he is just one of the babies that only needs 10/11 hours of sleep at night? Or he is one of those babies that really needs to eat once during the night?
I don't think he's a baby that needs only 10/11hr sleep at night. Maybe 11 would be fine, if he was doing 2x1.5-2hr naps and a CN. It's definitely possible he needs that extra feed every few nights. My DS was also a big baby (10lb at birth, 20lb at 6mo) and I know he was hungry from 5-6mo, before we started solids (he was EBF). I notice that you don't have a dream feed, so I think it's perfectly normal for him to need a feed in the MOTN still.
Should I continue to cap his naps? How do I know that he's getting too much day sleep instead of not enough day sleep? I've read that if a baby doesn't get enough sleep during the day, it could affect the night sleep.
Capping the naps is up to you. I'd say if you're working on an age-appropriate A time of 2h10-15min (or even up to 2.5hr), it's fine to let him sleep up to 2hr for each nap and 45min for the CN. The day may push out to 13hr then, but that's just fine. 11hr night sleep is considered a full night (10 is not). But, if he continues to have NW and you notice that with less daytime sleep, he sleeps through better, then I do think it's worth capping the main naps to 1.5hr.
I think this is just a matter of pushing through and being consistent. You had good initial success with pushing the A times and then got a bugger of a night and day after no CN, so it was really just a one-off. Keep working at it!
Oh also, have you tried going up one size in the diaper at night or using an overnight diaper to help prevent the leaking?
HTH!
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Just a quick update:
Last night, we had no NW! YAAAAYY!!!
The things that were different yesterday than the past week or so:
1. Capped first two naps at 2 hrs (instead of 1.5 hrs) and CN was capped at 45min
2. A time was as close to 2 hrs and 10/15 minutes as possible.
3. A time between CN and BT was 1.5 hrs
4. BT was 7:30pm
5. Put on one size up for night time diaper
He started to stir around 6am (which is much better than his usual 4:50am/5am) and didn't make a peep until around 6:15am or so. Still, he was more moaning/groaning to himself and lifting himself up off his tummy (trying to roll to his back, I assume - he can only roll from tummy to back right now but not the other way). Got him up for the day at 6:50am and he had a pretty good poop in his diaper! So, I'm thinking he probably would have slept even longer if he didn't have the poop!
Today, I have kept his A time at 2 hrs 15 and had almost 1.5 hrs for each nap. His first nap was 5 minutes shy of 1.5 hrs and so was his second. It seems like I need to push him with his A time even if he's so grumpy...the stroller works at times, but, sometimes he's screaming and kicking at the 2 hr 5min mark that I have to take him to his room and stall as long as I can there. I end up laying him down right at the 2 hr 10 mark and he's asleep within 2 minutes. I was always afraid of pushing him too far and he would have short naps, but it looks like he sleeps even better when he goes down cranky.
I'm hoping for another night like last night. I now think his 4/5am wake up is NOT habitual. I agree with the advice I've been given here - it looks like he just needs more A time. It also looks like he's doing better with a later bedtime (7:30pm as opposed to 6/6:30pm).
Please wish us luck for tonight!!
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Wow, great update! FX for another good night for you... keep up the good work! :)
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Here I am again....we had 2 nights of no NW and then right back to NW at 5am. I am staying consistent with A time and making but he still is waking and fussing and then escalating to a cry. Here's the log from the passed few days:
Saturday 6/22
6am starting to stir a little
6:15am-6:45am making some light noises and lifting his head up now and then but would put it back down and rest
6:50am got him up for the day - he had a good size poop
E 7am breastfed
A
S 9am-10:25am
E 11 bottle 5.5oz
A
S 12:40pm - 2pm
E 2:55pm bottle 6oz
A
S 4:20pm - 5:50pm had to wake him
E 6:30pm tried to feed, but only ate 1oz
A 6:45pm Bath
E 7pm breastfed
S 7:25pm
Sunday 6/23
5:55am starting to stir
6:30am starting to make noises
6:50am got him up for the day, he was completely awake
E 7am breastfed
A
S 9:10am-10:45am
E 11am bottle 6.5oz
A
S 1pm-3:05pm
E 3:10pm bottle 5.5oz
A
S 5:20pm-6pm
E 6:30pm bottle 5oz
A 6:45pm Bath
E 7pm breastfed
S 7:25pm
Monday 6/24
5am making noises
5:30am more and more noises turning into complaining
5:40am bottle 5oz
Set him back down at 6am and he fell asleep quickly but then started to stir 10-15 minutes afterwards.
6:30am - up and awake for the day
S 8am-930am
E 9:40am bottle 6.5oz
A
S 11:50am-12:30pm
E 1:40pm bottle 6oz
A
S 3pm-3:45pm
E 5:20 bottle 4oz
S 5:45 - set him down for his CN but he just laid there with no complaints. Finally got him up at 6:30 for his bath
A 6:30pm bath
E 7pm breastfed
S 7:35pm
Tuesday 6/25
4:45am complaining and then crying
4:55am bottle 3oz (he pushed the bottle away)
5:05am laid down to sleep with no fuss and he fell asleep quickly
7:15am woke him up for the day
E 7:25am breastfed
A
S 9:40am-10:40am
E 11:15am bottle 8oz
A
S 1pm - 2:45pm
E 3pm bottle 5oz
A
S 5pm-5:30pm
E 6:30pm bottle 5.5oz
A Bath
E 7pm breastfed
S 7:45pm
Wednesday 6/26
5am starting to stir
5:20am making noises and escalating to a cry
5:30am bottle 5oz
5:45am set back down and he quickly fell asleep
7:20am woke him for the day
E 7:30am breastfed
A
S 9:35am-11:35am
E 11:40am bottle 6oz
A
S 1:55pm - 3:25pm had to wake him
I think I've tried just about every combination I can think of and I've tried it for 4-5 days. I've tried to cap his naps at 1.5 hours and then his CN at 45 minutes. Then, I've tried to cap his naps at 2 hours and his CN at 45 minutes. Then, I've tried an early BT (6/6:30) and I've tried later BT (7/7:30). I have not let him sleep passed 7:20 (my WU time is usually 7am, but sometimes I'm so exhausted from the 5am feed that I sleep a little passed the time I need to get up and get him up).
I am not quite sure what to do now. It seems like he goes through a few days of NW and then has 1 or 2 (if I'm lucky) of no NW. Is this just something that will eventually iron itself out? Or is there something that I'm doing wrong? His current A time is 2 hours and 15 minutes. Sometimes, he's a screaming mess and I try to entertain him by walking outside and then he starts screaming outside. I lay him down at the 2 hour 15 mark and he rolls over and is asleep (sometimes, he screams/cries for about 5 minutes and then passes out). His naps vary from 1hr to 2 hours (and I have to wake him) for no rhyme or reason.
I don't think his waking is habitual because he doesn't do it on a consistent basis. And sometimes, it's 4am, sometimes it's 5...and there's been an occasion where he's woken up around 3am. There has only been 1 NW where he didn't seem that hungry; the one where he ate only 3oz. Although, he ate it ferociously, he just didn't eat a lot. He usually will go right back to sleep right after the feed and we'll have to wake him up at 7am. If he wakes after 5:15am and we feed him after 5:20am, he's usually up for the day and it just throws the rest of the day out of whack.
Any suggestions on what I could do? Should I continue to just push his A time up every week and hopefully the NW will disappear? As of right now, today looks like a later BT (8pm/8:30pm). If I continue to push his A time, that means I'll have to cap his naps to no more than 1.5 hours. Sometimes, I feel as if he gets too much daytime sleep and then other times I feel as if he's not getting enough. I am completely confused at this point and I'm not sure what I can do (if anything).
Thank you so much for your time.
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Hon, you gotta keep upping his A times and slowly get rid of that CN. He is giving you all the signs that he is ready for more A time, so that's what I'd do IIWY.
For us the last 30min of A time was always hard, there was crying and I had to hold DS throughout this time. But if I put him down when I thought he is ready to sleep I would always get an UT nap. It's normal, many babies don't like when increasing their A times, but it doesn't mean they don't NEED it.
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Hi,
So, the past few days I've upped his A time to 2 hrs 20 minutes and he woke up at 4am AND 5am :'( The first night he woke up at 4am, I went in and fed him and he fell quickly asleep. He then started to fuss at 5am and DH went in with a bottle and DS took 4oz and fell asleep and we had to wake him at 7am. The second night he woke at 4am, DH went in with a bottle and DS drank 5oz and then fussed at 5am - this time, we waiting and DS went back to sleep after 20 minutes of complaining. What do you think is going on? Why would he wake at 4am and then again at 6am? Clearly he can't be hungry since he ate only 1 hour prior.
Also, by increasing his A time, he is refusing the CN. He set him down for it, but he lays there for 15 minutes and then starts complaining. His last A time ends up being 3 hours and sometimes even 3.5/4 hours. Should we get him up earlier for the day so that he can have a CN and then just slowly decrease the length of the CN and then once it's gone, we go back to his normal WU? Or do we continue to have a super long A time at the end and that will gradually decrease once his A time increases for the other wake periods?
Thank you for your time! We are again all over the place with the schedule now and there's just so many variables that I can't keep my head straight and I need to make sure I'm not making things worse.
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If the last A time was so long then I think the NW are related to that. I wouldn't wake him up earlier in the morning, but keep on offering the CN until his A time is longer throughout the day and he doesn't need it anymore. Even if he is laying quietly in his cot it's better than no CN at all. But at this stage, because the transition to 2 naps can be hard on some little ones, many mommies AP the CN. Is there an AP that can work for the CN? The buggy? A drive? A swing? Anything?
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Sorry to intrude having a similar problem with my DS who will be 5 months in another week so watching how things go with you - good luck with the NWs , we have one day with no NW and some days with multiple NW so I know how frustrating it is
Hugs
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Hi. I'm back for another update on where we're at. The passed 4 days, we've been able to eliminate the CN with a combination of increasing the A time (currently at 2 hrs and 40 min) and 2 naps of 1 hr 30/45 min. DS is still waking at night; sometimes as early as 3am and other times at 5am. I'm wondering if it will just take some time for him to drop the NW? Perhaps when we are at 3hrs A time and 1.5 hrs for each nap? Or do you think it just takes a few days for him to get into a rhythm with the new A time? Should I be still increasing it until 3hrs? He will be 6 month on 7/15.
Here's the EASY for the past 4 days:
Sunday 6/30
2:30am starting to make some noise
3am bottle fed 5oz and had a soiled diaper (perhaps that's why he woke up?)
4am back asleep
7:10am woke him to start the day
E 7:15am breastfed
A
S 9:37am - 10:40am
E 11am bottle 6oz
A
S 1:20pm - 4:10pm had to wake him up
E 4:20pm bottle 6oz
A
S 6:50pm BT
Monday 7/1
5:23am crying
5:30am bottle 4oz
7:30am woke him to start the day
E 7:40am breastfed
A
S 10:10am - 11:55am had to wake him
E 12pm bottle 6oz
A
S 2:40pm - 4:30pm had to wake him
E 4:35pm bottle 6oz
A
S 7:10pm
Tuesday 7/2
6:20am crying
6:25am breastfed
7:30am woke him for the day
E 7:35 breastfed again to start the routine
A
S 9:40am - 11:30am had to wake him
E 11:50 bottle 6oz
A
S 2:10pm - 3:50pm
E 4:20 bottle 5oz
A
S 6:30 asleep feeding, woke up while burping
S 7/7:10 finally settled back to sleep
Wednesday 7/3
5:18am started to make noise
5:35am more and more noise
5:40am bottle 6oz
7:30am woke him for the day
E 9am bottle 6.5 oz
A
S 10:15am - 12pm had to wake him
E 12:30pm bottle 6oz
A
S 2:45pm - 4:15pm
E 4:30pm bottle 6oz
A
S 7 BT
Thursday 7/4
3:30am complaining
3:35am bottle 6oz
6:20am complaining
6:25am breastfed in the dark and he fell back asleep
6:45am - 8am AP and let him sleep on nursing pillow
E 8am offered bfed again, but he didn't take
A
S 10:15am - 12:05pm had to wake him
E 12:15pm bottle 6.5 oz
A
S 2:45pm - 4:30pm had to wake him
E 5:10pm bottle 7oz
A
S 7:10pm
Any suggestions would be so appreciated. Should I be started the day if he wakes at 6:20am? I'm just not quite sure what to do during those situations. I would ideally like the day to be 7/7:30 - 7/7:30. But, I suppose 6:20 is close enough? Should I still be pushing his A time up and his nap duration down? Do I need to just wait a few days...few weeks for the routine to "stick"? Or is his NW normal because he's such a big boy (20 lbs and wearing 9month clothing) and he really is hungry?
Thank you so much.....
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He's doing well with the A time push, that's great! Is there a reason you're waking him from naps? If you're doing just two, I don't think there's any harm in letting him sleep the full 2hr.
It looks to me like he might be genuinely hungry. I think I mentioned before that my DS was also big at this age (20lb at 6mo), and he did still have two BFs at night at 6mo. Your LO seems to be taking a full feed at the NW and then another one in the morning, so that sounds like hunger to me. This might settle down as you get started on solids in the next month.
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Hi. I was capping his naps because I thought he was getting too much day time sleep. If I let him go 2 hrs each, that's 4 hours total day time sleep and then we want 12 hrs at night - I thought 16 hrs total would be too much and might cause his NW?
Btw - he did sleep through last night and we had to wake him at 7:30am today! The only caveat is that he did have a small cry-out at 10:30pm that lasted for 7 minutes but I think that's more related to over stimulation from going out to dinner.
We've had a couple of nights that he slept through and I noticed that he had just 3 or 3.5 hours of sleep. So, I was calling his naps based on that. However, I know he had one day that he slept 4 hours total and still slept through. So, I'm still just confused on what to do. Yesterday. He had a total of 3.5 hrs for his naps - 1 hr and 45min each. And his A time was exactly 2 hrs 40 min each time. BT was 7:10pm and we woke him at 7:30am. Do you think we should just let him sleep 2 hrs each nap and wake him exactly 12 hrs from BT?
I just want to be consistent and make sure we're doing him right. We do go to him when he does wake at night and he eats and puts himself back to sleep quickly. So, I agree that is is probably hunger. We have started solids but just a few ounces for the entire day.
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Is there a reason you're waking him from naps? If you're doing just two, I don't think there's any harm in letting him sleep the full 2hr.
I was thinking the same thing. If he stays asleep and doesn't wake up after 1.5h I would let him complete 2h naps.
2X2h naps and a good night is what I would tell anyone to aim for at this age after CN is dropped. Only if you get problem in the future (and I don't include the NW you currently have as a problem) THEN it would be time to cap the naps.
And I also agree with Katie about hunger, it sounds like he wakes up 'cause he is hungry, which is fair enough, yk?
It sounds like you are doing great all ready, well done for the progress!
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Hi There,
So, he had a NW last night at 3:20am and he really tried to work through it. He started off with grumbling to himself for a bit and tossing and turning and then sucking on his thumb. Finally, at 3:40am, he started to complain and we fed him a bottle and he ate 6oz and quickly went back to sleep and we woke him this morning at 7:30am. He had the same schedule yesterday as the day before (and he slept through the night that day), so, I guess we're just in that pattern of sleeping through 1 night and then going through a string of nights with NW. As long as I'm not doing anything "wrong" with the schedule, I'm perfectly happy to feed him whenever he is asking for food during the night. It varies each night, so, I don't think it's habitual.
So, my next question: Should I keep his A time where it is? He's currently on 2hrs 40minutes. He will be 6 months on 7/15. If I do keep his A time steady, when do I know to start to increase it again?
Thanks for all the help!
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You know to start and increase A time either when you get short naps (45min-1:20h) or he is hard to settle for a nap, or when you have cot parties at night :)
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As his A time increases, do I start to cap his naps to fit it all in the 12 hour day? Or does his days start to go to 12.5/13 hrs and his nights decrease?
Today, he woke at 445am and tried to resettle himself but couldn't. We ended up feeding him at 5:10am (5.5oz) and he ended up falling back asleep within 10 minutes until we woke him at 7:05am. First nap didn't start until 9:55am, so, he did 2hrs and 50min A time. If I let him sleep the 2hrs (which I think he probably will), and then his next A time is at least 2hrs 40min, should I then cap his second nap to 1.5 so his bedtime doesn't get pushed out?
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Yes, you could cap the second nap at 1.5h.
I wouldn't start capping naps unless it's necessary. There are many babies who are doing 2 naps, 3h A time and their day is 12h long, in this case often the last A time is not a full A time, which many babies anyway don't need. Your day can look like this:
7 WU
7-10 A
10-12 S
12-15 A
15-16:30/17 S
19-19:30 BT
He is going to be at 3h A time for a while, so we can worry about capping naps later, when he is older. Of course, if you notice that 2 naps of 2h each is too much day sleep for him then you can cap it at 1.5h.
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Hi again. I'm back for another update and to get some more advice.
DS will be 6 month in 5 days. He's been on 2hr 40/45 min for at least a week now and he does have a variable NW. He seems to go a few days with a NW and then he'll sleep through one night and go right back to his usual NW.
This morning, he woke at 4:45am with his usual light grumbling and I watched him in the monitor. He started rolling from tummy-to-back and then back-to-tummy and then would suck his thumb and try to settle. He did this 10-15 times and I was almost convinced he was going to be up for the day. His grumbling increased but he never really cried. We ended up feeding him at 5:05am and he ate 5oz (that's all that was in the bottle), burped and fell asleep within 5 minutes and we woke him at 7am to start the day.
2 days ago, he had the exact same schedule and he did not have a NW. So, I guess there are some night that he wakes and some he doesn't? We have been feeding him solids throughout the day for about 3 weeks now.
Here are some questions (pardon the randomness, I just have a lot of things on my mind):
1. Should I introduce a dream feed in hopes to stop the NW? His "usual" NW occurs around 4/5am, however, there has been times where he woke at 2/3am. If I do a dream feed, what time should I do it?
2. If no dream feed, should I attempt to wean him off the NW by giving him less and less milk in the bottle?
3. If "no" for 1 & 2, I've read that I can do a "scheduled awakening" which means I would go in there 15-30 minutes prior to his usual wake up and feed him. I do this for a few days and then stop and see if he still wakes. Would you recommend this approach? If I go this route, what time should I wake him to feed him?
4. If "no" for 1 & 2 & 3 and I just need to continue to feed him when he wakes, when should he STOP with the NW? As I stated earlier, he goes a few days with NW and then sleeps through. He's even had 2 nights that he had no NW back to back and then went back to NW.
5. Yesterday, he had a shorter than usual first nap; 1 hr 10 minutes. His second nap, he made up for it with 2hrs. I kept both A times at 2 hrs 45. Do you think he's ready for another bump or was this just a fluke and I should just keep an eye on him?
6. I think he's starting to teeth. He gets super irritable about an hour after wake up and he wants to gnaw on everything. He bites down really hard on our fingers and other objects and sometimes cries in frustration. I've given him different teethers and even cold ones and it's hit-or-miss. As of right now, it doesn't seem to affect his sleep other than making him want to go to sleep sooner; we don't give in and try to distract him with various toys and water play. Just wanted to throw that in there so you can get the entire picture of what's going on with him.
Thank you so much for your guidance.
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Sorry- forgot to mention:
Today, I pushed his first A time to 2hrs 55 minutes and he fell asleep right at the 3hr mark. I had to wake him after 2hrs of sleep. I will keep the same A time of 2hrs 55 min and see what he does for his second nap. If he's at 2hrs 55min - when should I start capping his naps at 1.5hrs?
Also, you had mentioned that he may start sleeping through once solids are introduced. How and why is that? I though sleeping through had nothing to so with how full their tummies are. Also, he's been on solids for 3 weeks now and still has the same pattern of NW.
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1. Should I introduce a dream feed in hopes to stop the NW? His "usual" NW occurs around 4/5am, however, there has been times where he woke at 2/3am. If I do a dream feed, what time should I do it?
A DF is always worth a shot, but TBH, IIWY I wouldn't. It sounds to me like he needs some more A time (how long are his naps right now? I am not so sure he is hungry because he is just lying there and not crying and that would usually indicate UT.
2. If no dream feed, should I attempt to wean him off the NW by giving him less and less milk in the bottle?
Are you referring to the 4-5AM NW? He is not actually asking for the bottle, right? It's you who decide to settle him like that, or did I get it all wrong? If you leave him alone without going in and feeding him will he go back to sleep?
If you think that he is dependent in this bottle to fall back to sleep then you can try and wean it, but I will only do it after the 6m GS.
If "no" for 1 & 2, I've read that I can do a "scheduled awakening" which means I would go in there 15-30 minutes prior to his usual wake up and feed him. I do this for a few days and then stop and see if he still wakes. Would you recommend this approach? If I go this route, what time should I wake him to feed him?
TBH I never heard of it and therefore I don't feel I can give an advice regarding that.
If "no" for 1 & 2 & 3 and I just need to continue to feed him when he wakes, when should he STOP with the NW? As I stated earlier, he goes a few days with NW and then sleeps through. He's even had 2 nights that he had no NW back to back and then went back to NW.
I think he will stop having NW when his routine is spot on ;) which sometimes takes a while to achieve.
Yesterday, he had a shorter than usual first nap; 1 hr 10 minutes. His second nap, he made up for it with 2hrs. I kept both A times at 2 hrs 45. Do you think he's ready for another bump or was this just a fluke and I should just keep an eye on him?
Is it just one day you got a short nap in the morning? I would increase the first A time by 10-15min and see if there is a change.
If he's at 2hrs 55min - when should I start capping his naps at 1.5hrs?
When your day doesn't fit anymore or when there is still NW which seems UT.
Also, you had mentioned that he may start sleeping through once solids are introduced. How and why is that? I though sleeping through had nothing to so with how full their tummies are. Also, he's been on solids for 3 weeks now and still has the same pattern of NW.
I can't remember when any of us said that :-\
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Yesterday his A times were 3 hrs and his first nap I had to wake him after 2 hrs and his second he woke on his own after 1.5 hrs. His A time before bed was 2 hrs 40.
He had a NW at 3am today, and we waited 15min to see if he would resettle. He didn't and so we fed him and he went back to sleep.
When he has his NW, he usually starts off with low grumbling and then escalates to very loud grumbling and complaining after 10-15 minutes. He does end up with crying if we don't respond. I have let him lay on his own for up to 40 min and he does not resettle. It was only recently that he learned how to roll back onto his tummy (he could only roll from tummy-to-back until 3 days ago) and since then, when he has his NW, he rolls back and forth complaining. When we feed him, he eats almost the entire bottle (5-6oz) and then is asleep within 2-5 min until his wake up at 7am.
How long should I wait before changing something? And what should I try next?
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Also, katie80 said in her last post that things may settle down once he starts solids - just wondering how this works since I thought food wasn't related to NW.
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Hmm, sorry I may have been misleading in my comment. :-[. It's not really the starting of solids that is going to make him sleep through, but if he's truly waking out of hunger, the more he takes in during the day the less he will wake. He's likely not taking enough solids now to really make a difference.
If you're starting to think that he doesn't really need that bottle, you can always try reducing it by an oz every few days and adding that oz to a day time feed. He could also be waking at those times due to develomental stuff going on, i.e. all the rolling and getting used to sleeping in different positions. Once you go to him, he may eat because he's hungry enough to do so, but wasn't actually waking out of hunger, iyswim. Have you ever tried to resettle him at those times without feeding? Ultimately, I agree with Noa. I'd give the new routine a week or two to settle in and go from there.