BabyWhispererForums.com
SLEEP => Night Wakings => Topic started by: 4isstillnighttime on April 08, 2016, 18:12:35 pm
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Another thread for my baby ;D I am getting things a bit wrong and I could do with some advice. After a beautiful few weeks of STTN we are in trouble again.....NW and EMW.
He is needing to hold my hand to go to sleep and still has his dummy, although he will pull it out if he gets cross! He has also been really fighting his naps over the last couple of days....
Here is a fairly typical day:
A 5:30. Will lie in cot and hold my hand or cuddle in my bed but won't go back to sleep.
Up 6:00 and BF
Breakfast 7:00
Nap 9:30 - 10:45
Lunch 12
Nap 2:30 - 4
Supper 5
BF and bed 7ish
NW 11, 1, 3-3:30 (aaarrgghh) then awake 5:30.
Any thoughts?!? I am trying to get that first nap later but struggling due to the twins and their activities...:could I cap it instead??
Thanks ladies :-*
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Hi there :)
You can certainly cap the first one - I always felt like my DD would have preferred the long am, short pm nap route, but kind of forced her to do it the other way around due to DS, so I know it's possible, even though I never felt it was as smooth as it could have been if I'd worked with her natural rhythms. A refresher for you:
From 2 to 1 nap transition (10-12m and older)
Does that help at all?
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Hi - I would totally be capping a nap to get you into the 2-1. Which one depends on your LO and your other routines but it sounds like a short am catnap and longer pm nap would suit you?
Have you tried any GW to get rid of the hand holding prop? We got stuck with that for a bit too!
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I would cap and push it slightly forward, and try also to pull the second one back and indeed cap it too. Both of mine needed to be up by 3.30 or we had BT/night issues.
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I would cap and push it slightly forward, and try also to pull the second one back and indeed cap it too. Both of mine needed to be up by 3.30 or we had BT/night issues.
This is what I would do also. Like Anne, I found having the second nap done earlier in the day helped with BT and nights. It was also just easier with another LO around to have the second nap earlier in the day.
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Ooooh great!! I think also it's time he went to some set naps as I am back at work soon and I want to give the child minder a set routine!! So if I aim for (on a perfect day LOL)
A 6:00
Nap 9:45 - 10:30
Nap 2 - 3:30
Bt 7:30
Something like this?
Thanks for the 2-1 link....I've totally had my head in the sand about this as I really struggled with it with the twins!!! I am trying a bit of GW but it's hard when he is so all over the place - he's really fighting naps and BT (and up to 2 weeks ago he was totally self settling :'() but once I have our feet on the ground I will do that. Trouble is he is quite UT for his naps then OT by BT so I just want him asleep ;D
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I am trying a bit of GW but it's hard when he is so all over the place - he's really fighting naps and BT (and up to 2 weeks ago he was totally self settling ) but once I have our feet on the ground I will do that. Trouble is he is quite UT for his naps then OT by BT so I just want him asleep
Get yourself in a better place routine wise and feel free to post again of some help with a GW plan xx
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That routine looks pretty good.
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Gah it's going really badly......waking at 4 for the last few nights and not going back down......am trying to keep the first nap lateish but am struggling. Last night he absolutely screamed between about 4 and 6, when he passed out on my DHs chest for about half an hour. I've just put him down now, was thinking of just APing as much nap as possible today then trying again next week?
The other thing is that we are now down to 2 BFs, morning and BT. In desperation this morning DH gave him a bottle and he drank it right before he went to sleep. I'm reluctant to start NF again but if he has a massive scream fest at 4 again should I????
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That's a low number of feeds for that age. Do you think he was hungry at 4am?
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On Friday night he had a feed at 4:30 but still didn't go back to sleep. Last night I tried to BF him but by then he was just in a bit of a state. He isn't great at drinking formula - he will have one bottle if I catch him just after his sleep.
Maybe tonight I'll try a BF when he first wakes at 4ish. I'm a bit reluctant as we worked so hard to drop the night feeds...
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(((Hugs))) would you like to post what's actually been happening during the days?
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FWIW, I was still feeding DS at night at that age. He only had one feed between 2 and 4 am and he gradually started STTN more and more often on his own.
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Thanks for the hugs. Got a little tear in my eye, you are so nice!!
Friday (had had a temp on Thursday but was ok Friday)
WU 5:30
BF
S 9:45 - 11:15 (we weren't going out and I let him sleep due to the temp)
S 2:45 - 3:30
Formula (150ml ish)
BT with BF 7:15 ish, maybe a bit later
WU 4:30 ish, BF about 5, didn't get back to sleep.
Sat:
Nap 9:30 - 10:15 ish (no choice, had to go out and fell asleep in the car then woke up when we got there)
Nap 1:45 - 3:15 (in car on the way back then I just kept driving!)
BT 6:45 (fell asleep feeding)
NW 10:30, 1, 2, 4:19 and stayed awake til 6, napped on DH 6-6:30
Today:
Nap 9:30 - 10:45
Nap 1:30 (screaming with tiredness) - 2:45
Had an extra BF at about 5:00 and fell asleep, napped on me for about 30 mins
BT 7:30 but v happy and self settled.....fingers crossed!!
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Aw I just feel your pain :-*
So the issue with daytime feeds - are you at work or out and about and so unable to BF during the day, so then it has to be formula other than the bfs at WU and BT? And he doesn't readily drink formula? I'd agree with PPs that if you're able to get another milk feed into him during the day then that would seem ideal, but if that's not possible then it may that you'll need to BF him at night a little while longer.
However, as you're probably all too aware, he does also seem quite OT. Do you think you could do EBT at all, or does that just not work with the twins? Then again, I don't know how Sunday night and Monday went, after that extra CN? It's hard when they're in an OT loop, isn't it? Just where we are right now, actually :P
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I am back at work next week so can't feed in the day. He probably would drink more formula except that he is so tired and cross now he isn't eating or drinking much of anything - it's a bit of a vicious circle. I can't remember exactly how things worked out Sunday night but they were bad ;D and I ended up BFing at 4:30, and he eventually went back to sleep til 6.
Yesterday he did:
WU 6
Milk feed
Breakfast
Nap 9:15 - 10:00
Snack
Lunch
Nap 1:15 - 2:45
Milk feed
Snack
Supper about 5
Milk
BT 6:45
He woke up at 10 with a dirty nappy so when I changed him I gave him another bottle of formula then. He then woke up at 3, 4 and then up for the day at 5:30.
My thoughts are.....should I give him a formula DF? I've never made it work with BFing but formula is easier and quicker.
should I try and get another bottle of milk in during the day? He has a BF on WU and BT, and formula after his nap, but he could have another bottle after his morning nap.
Should I still be trying to get him to 9:30 for that first nap? Given that he doesn't normally have a long nap then whatever Time it is should I just let him go to sleep earlier then?
And I will def try and get him in bed early......easier said than done though ;D
Thanks again for the help!!
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Ok sorry I hadn't spotted the post nap bottle before - well, some LOs at 10mo are having three milk feeds, others four, and given that he still seems to want/take one in the night, I'd say it might be easier to plan one somewhere - whether you do that as a DF or after his morning nap is really up to you, I'd probably be inclined to go for the DF, since he didn't feed again last night after his 10pm bottle. Unless of course he was ravenous at 5:30am?
If Sunday night was bad then I'd definitely say aim for EBT rather than an extra CN, although I realise that one wasn't planned ;)
With the first nap, I'd still be inclined to try to push, I just felt that keeping our first nap at the same time helped to stop WUs getting ridiculously early, even if we still had EWs.
Just wondering how he was after his pm nap yesterday? I feel like it might have been good to have had a longer one in order to push the day out a bit without getting OT. But a 1.5h nap could be UT or OT, hard to tell without seeing what he was like afterwards. Did you try to resettle or give him the chance to resettle, or was he just really awake and ready to play?
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He was def OT. But.....in new developments I think he is teething :o as he has had proper teething poos today. I will dose him up at bedtime but try nurofen this time. Or maybe I will give it at the DF so it lasts!
Today....WU 5:30
Nap 9:45 - 10:45
Nap 2:00 - 3:20 ish
And he has had 2 bottle of formula and a morning BF and I will give a FF at my BT.
Tweak tweak!!!
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Aw teething is such a pain :-\ Will he resettle at all after an OT nap? Or do you think it would work better for him if you pulled that second nap a little earlier, in the hope that he takes a longer nap due to not being OT? That would be a scarier option for me :P
Hope this bout of teething isn't too awful for you all, does he already have some?
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He has 2.....they were a drama too!!! We have had a shocking nap day - he had another dreadful night, up at 5, slept 8:30 until we had to go out at 9:30...then 12:45 - 1:45 and wouldn't resettle!! Tried to AP a CN at 5 but no luck. In bed at 6:30 and I am going down too to try and maximise my sleep. This is rubbish, I am shattered!! And it makes me feel really anxious and panicky and blame myself that it is because I am doing something wrong!
Depending on his wake up in the morning I will try:
Nap 1 at 9:30 (I think I have to fix that one)
Second A time of 3:15
3rd A time of 3:30 ish.
And as much food and drink as he can squeeze in!
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Sorry, posted too soon. Thanks again for all the help. It is a lonely, unhappy business sometimes.
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Oh (((hugs))) you sound just like I feel when I'm utterly sleep deprived, it's horrible, isn't it? You're not doing anything wrong, he's just teething and it's rotten :-* You are giving pain meds, right? Can you still APOP a nap at all?
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Sometimes I can but it depends on the twins a bit!!! I'll try at least his first one.
Grim!
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And it makes me feel really anxious and panicky and blame myself that it is because I am doing something wrong!
I got this feeling a lot too. Especially with the 5 am WUs. I think it's just a low time for me and everything feels worse at that hour. Remind yourself it's just the sleep deprivation talking and that these sorts of bumps are perfectly normal.
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:'( I hope you are right. Am sat here in tears breastfeeding. Was up with him between 11:30 and 1. He just won't sleep. At this stage I would cosleep, feed to sleep, anything! He hasn't slept properly for nearly a week.
The worst was that I really thought I was through the worst. I was so excited about having a bit of energy and enthusiasm for life again. Like the old me. Enjoying doing things with the twins, going to the gym. Now I just feel sick and tired and miserable, barely enough energy to turn the tv on in the morning and plonk them all in front of it.
I feel like this will never end.
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(((hugs))) me dear. This too shall pass. Do something nice for yourself. It will end, of course, one day he'll be 25 and bringing you out for dinner :)
I think you're right to do anything at this point, but if he can't sleep, he can't, for whatever reason. For teeth, you need ibuprofen not paracetamol (I'm sure you know that) because the ibuprofen deals with the painful swelling. We used teetha granules a lot, the camomilla in their system helped them to relax, and, yes I'm a terrible hippie, they both had amber teething necklaces and they really helped them. And, as I always say, the lavender oil! If you're not using teetha or similar, I'd introduce it, it could help and it won't do any harm.
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Oh thank you!! I tried those powders with the twins but they didn't work at all, but I could try again with this one. I didn't know that about ibuprofen :o but he has been having it anyway because we are out of calpol!!
I have taken your advice and am sitting drinking a coffee and ignoring the Washing that needs hanging, the bin that needs emptying, the dishwasher that needs emptying......might take the kids out for lunch to save having to cook anything ;D and the baby will need to take me out for every meal for about 5 years to make up for this!!!!
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I have taken your advice and am sitting drinking a coffee and ignoring the Washing that needs hanging, the bin that needs emptying, the dishwasher that needs emptying.
Good woman!
.might take the kids out for lunch to save having to cook anything
Excellent idea :)
the baby will need to take me out for every meal for about 5 years to make up for this!!!!
Maybe you need a ledger or something?
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Oh (((hugs))) yes this will pass, but I know it feels like forever when you're in the midst of it, doesn't it? :-* Just remember, you got through it with the twins (and I still can't imagine how anyone does that ;D ) so you know you can get through it this time too :-*
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yes I'm a terrible hippie, they both had amber teething necklaces and they really helped them.
Then I'm a terrible hippie too. I really found that amber or hazelwood necklaces helped both of my LOs.
Huge hugs for you. It's so tough to be sleep deprived. Just keep reminding yourself that you are doing the best that you can.
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:)
Tbh the necklaces and the teetha powder, we only ever used meds at night, and that was not v often, a feed and a snuggle often worked just as well.
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Oh gosh....now he has stopped napping too. I got 2x 45 mins yesterday, 45 mins this morning, successful resettle after 30 mins this afternoon....and he's just woken up at 45 mins anyway. He is definitely still tired, he is dosed up on everything, he ate an enormous lunch.....what else can I do? I will try and get him to bed early but that's v difficult with the twins.....
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Aw (((hugs))) blame it on the teeth? Some LOs do just seem to suffer more with it, don't they?
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My DD had blips like that - she was just so sensitive to every little thing (growth spurt, teething, developmental stuff). All you can do is grit your teeth to get through the day, pop him in bed as early as you can and then put your feet up and have a glass of wine!
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Oh please help me. It's getting worse and worse. He was up for the day at 3:30. Passed out from exhaustion at 8:00, slept til 8:30 and then up til 12:45.....it's now 14:00 and I have resettled him twice but normally he is not resettlable at all any more.
He is going to sleep holding my hand still, but if he is happy at BT I just sit by the cot and that's ok. He has a dummy but can take it or leave it. He has litres of formula and loads of food all day. When he wakes at night he is happy, then gradually gets cross, and once he is cross nothing will help. I have tried BF, dummy, cosleeping, rocking, shhh pat, everything. He is on max doses of calpol and nurofen, and has teething powders.
He is teething (still!) and is also starting to crawl (finally!) so there is stuff going on.....but this has been going on for weeks and the last week has been totally brutal. What am I doing wrong?!?!? I am so close to the edge, I shouted at him this morning :-[
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No advice but a big squishy hug from me. Brutal is the only way to describe it, wish I could come help.
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What a nightmare!
I cannot say Btdt, but have you tried consistently keeping him in his cot and refusing all activity? When we had long NWs, which was not often I have to say, I would check whatever needed checking and then camp on the floor if needed, but with no talking (only to say it's sleep time or whatever).
I'm so sorry! Up for the day at 3.30 is diabolical, but this has been going on for a good while so I don't think we can say it's a blip any more. Tho crawling may mess things up for a bit until it happens.
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I haven't. What do you do about the dummy when it gets hurled in a rage? Just keep giving it back? I do sleep on the floor in his room, that used to be enough but no longer. And if he is screaming do I shh pat or just sit with him? I only get him up if he gets really noisy as I don't want him to wake the twins.....
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(((Hugs))) that sounds horrible! Where are you with the 2-1 and extending A times atm?
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It's all a mess. I have been trying to fix the first nap at 9:00 or at 3:45 after he wakes up, whichever is earlier. Then if he sleeps for more than 30 mins I try for an A of 3:45 again, 3:30 if it was a 30 min nap. Most days now I get 2x 30 mins. Then bedtime as early as possible, but he messes around a fair bit at BT if it's too early. Aaarrgghh!!! And I did think about cold turkey putting him on to one nap but I can't get him to bed before 6:30 so he gets massively long days as it is!!!! Today he slept 8-8:30, then 12:45-2:30, then went to bed at 7:30 so he got 4h15 and 5h A times.
Tomorrow we are going on a long day out, so at least hopefully he will manage 2 naps in the car.
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Hmm do you feel that he does best with short am, long pm nap? If so, have you considered shortening the am nap further? Just thinking that was a really long day... Perhaps just a 10/15min morning nap might encourage a longer pm nap - I know it was long today, but he was catching up from that horrible early start :-* Just trying to offer another possibility...
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And if he is screaming do I shh pat or just sit with him?
I would just sit with him.
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Ok.....we've had some ups and downs!! We had a few nights of sleeping through til 5, which I was v happy with!! Then the last couple of nights we have had a long wake at about 3, then resettling by about 4:30 and waking after 5 for the day. Less good.....
Naps are still all over the place. I think I need to do a 2-1 transition but it's really tricky as as soon as we get in the car he just goes to sleep. And I can't stay in (or ask the nanny to) all day.
I'm trying to get that first nap shorter but it isn't making much difference to being able to get a longer second nap. Grrr!!
But anyway, on the plus side - I am following your suggestions and just camping out in his room during the long wakes, and he rolls around and stands up and sits down.....and I doze a bit!! So hopefully that will help in the long run!!
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We have bought a ready bed, which I feel will be rather marvellous for camping out in a wee one's room.
We may be joining you for the 2-1. Already!!!
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Crikey Helen, already?!? :o
Still struggling. He sleeps until anytim between 1 and 3......then from then until I get him up he squirms and cries and rolls around and stands up. He will go back to sleep if I leave him in his cot....but usually it's about an hour or more of crying first, then he will only sleep for 30 min bursts and need resettling each time. My heroic DH did the early shift today and took him into bed with him (we have a bed in his room now :-[) and said the same.
For naps yesterday he fell asleep having his bottle at 9 but only slept for 10 mins. He then did a massive sleep from 12:45 - 3 (with about 3 resettles) and went to bed at 7. So I thought that was a great day and I am distraught that it didn't help :'(
Any ideas?!
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It would generally take more than one night to sort out any routine issues, so I wouldn't be too surprised by that. It does sound like a good day, and tbh I would be compressing that first nap with all my might. We did get to the rather silly stage with LO1 of doing a 10 min AM nap but it was what he needed right then - that phase didn't last very long at all though so you might be close to dropping it??? (I say that without seeing the carnage on the ground ;) )
Does your gut say he's OT or UT? Or in a cycle of both?
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If I could tell the difference between UT and OT I would be a much better mum I think! ;D he is a bit grizzly at the moment but there is lots going on - I am back at work, he is just starting to crawl (which is making him very cross!) and he is keen on trying to walk too.
Today after that bad night he slept from 9:15-10:45 in the car, then fell alseep again at 12 til 12:30 or so. So that makes me think he is OT. But then he wouldn't nap this afternoon, and he didn't get to bed until after 8 (we were at a wedding) but he was pretty happy all afternoon.
I'll try again for a short morning nap and see how we go.....thanks!!!
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I think we'd all be rich if we could tell the difference between OT and UT!!
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;D yes, just imagine!! People could send me photos of their babies and I'd be like "OT. £50 please". I'd make an absolute fortune!!!!
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;D