BabyWhispererForums.com
ACTIVITY => E.A.S.Y. Forum => Topic started by: katie80 on September 25, 2014, 00:44:41 am
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Started ST baby C a week ago... haven't had much success... he started pulling up to standing on the second day... and I don't know what routine to shoot for to help him settle. Most often, I've spent the full 45min trying to get him to settle with PD (he just keeps pulling himself up!). We then take a 15min break and try again. He was going down relatively easy after that break, but now seems to be fighting that too. :( The most day time sleep he's had in the last week is 1.5hr (total), except for Sunday when I put him in the swing as he didn't nap at church in the morning and was exhausted. That day his total was 2.5hr.
We had one successful day on Saturday. Here's what it looked like...
W/E ~7am
A
S 9:45-10:45
E 10:45am
A
S 1:35-3pm
E 3:00pm
A
E 5:45pm
S ~6:30pm
So, I continued trying for the ~2h45A time (I think because he seemed OT and was going through developmental leaps), but he was fighting me. So, I went for 3h today (he didn't end up falling asleep til 3h15 this morning) and this is what I got...
W 6:30am
E 7:30am (NF at 4:45am)
A
S 9:45-10:48am
E 11:15am
A
S tried for 1:40 (he looked tired, but never went down)
E 3:15pm (fell asleep nursing for ~25min)
A
E 5:30
S tried for 6pm, I know it was late, but the best I could do with the other kids and DH not yet home from work; asleep ~6:15pm
The thing that's confusing is the nap lengths... I get anywhere around an hr for the first nap (have had 50min, 1hr, 1hr10min) at various A times (from 2h45min to 4/5hr!). Do you think I keep trying for around 3-3h15min A time? And what do I try for after ~1hr nap? It's so disheartening to be doing this much PD still. :(
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Not 1 hour naps! No! DD did this a LOT at this age and I just couldn't work it out. I had lots of help on it and in the end I just did full A for anything over 45 minutes. She honestly hardly EVER took a nap over 1 hour and 8 minutes until she was on one nap. She has always preferred more sleep an night and ho-hum nap. It's breakfast time here but I will be back, I know you are coping with a LOT and you just do what you need to do, also wonder if he is a high A type? BRB!
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I think up the A times too hun x
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^^^Agree with the ladies. I would increase A time to 3h and stick with it for like 3-4 days and if naps are still short I would increase to 3:15h.
Alon always needed a full A time after a short nap. I don't think that all babies are like that but it's worth a try. And if his A times are too short and you try for nap too early then that could explain why PD is taking a bit longer than expected.
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Thanks, ladies... really appreciate it. I can't see the forest for the trees right now! :-\
DH got him this morning and said it was around 6:30. I started WD about 9:40 (meant to do it at 9:30, but needed to get G occupied) and he fell asleep on me (like in less than 2 min). I should have got up sooner to put him in more awake, but I didn't. :-[ :-[. He did cry a little when he realized what we were doing, but he was much more relaxed during WD, so hopefully it works. He was up for 1.5hr in the night too, so clearly he's exhausted. :(
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He woke after 25min :(, but I laid him down and he resettled! :D Feeling silly... I just didn't think he could last so long when he almost falls asleep nursing at 2.5hr. ::)
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DD would fall asleep at BF too and I was always second guessing myself. I think they CAN knock out earlier and BF is so cuddly and warm and close that they WILL sleep, but not for long! Concur with what the lovely Noa and Katherine said. :) You are amazing to be coping with 3 like this.
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Coping? :-\ Thanks :-*
Well, I'm totally encouraged. I put him down for the pm nap today and he fell asleep without a peep! He looked at me and I walked out and by the time I got to the monitor downstairs he was asleep. After all that PD (which I now feel terrible about! :(). However, second nap was only 30min. I wasn't here to resettle as I walked to get Claire at school today (my mom has been doing it, but she shooed me out so I could enjoy the beautiful, sunny day :) ). I may have pushed too far as I didn't get him down til 3h20 A.
So, today looked like this...
W ~6:30am
E 7:30/8:30am
A (3h15)
S 9:45-11:10am (resettled at 25min)
E 11:15am/12pm/2pm (top up as needed to bring Claire to dentist and not sure when I'd be home)
A (3h20)
S 2:30-3:00pm
E 3:30pm (before I left with Claire)
A
E 6:15pm
S 6:30pm (best I could do)
What do you think? Stick with 3h15? Should I pull back to 3h-3h10? I suck at EASY! ::)
Thanks for your encouragement to push him... I needed it!!
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IIWY I would try and do it gradually, but you know C best. It does sound to me like it might have been too much A time for now. It might be that 3:15 or 3:20 is actually what he needs and he will eventually sleep best on this A time but maybe he needs to get there slowly. It's anyway not that slowly, it's just sticking to 3h for 3 days and then increasing it to 3:10 for 3-4 days, till you get good naps (or better) on the 3rd, 4th day.
The fact that he is settling so easily with a longer A time is a great sign and it shows you that you are on the right track!
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Thanks, Noa. :-* That one day of good settling was a fluke... he's had trouble again the last couple days, although not quite as much. His first tooth cut through on Fri and it looks like the other is close behind. It's so hard to tell if he's not settling because of not totally being an independent sleeper yet and the teething discomfort or from the wrong A time. I think 3-3h15 is probably right and he'd fall asleep on me if I let him, but when I put him down and step back (even if he's a bit past the seven-mile stare), he pops up and gets angry. I think if I patted him still he might drop off, but I'm a little nervous to exchange one prop for another. :-\ I guess patting is not all that bad while teething (and way better than PD!). I'll keep working at it and hope like crazy it gets better once the teeth are through.
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Hugs for the teething, it's such a pain! (No pun intended) ;)
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I think we would need to wait a bit till teething is through to know more about the sleep, yk?
TBH at this age I didn't do any patting anymore because it was too stimulating. As soon as Alon was able to pull himself in bed I did only PD.
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Maybe his A times are just higher than I think?! It's so hard to know because he looks tired most of the time and is fussy (but I guess that could be a combo of overall poor sleep and teething :-\). I just really want to get a decent second nap, so that I don't have to try for some kind of short CN and he's not going to bed really OT.
Here was his day Monday...
W/E 5am (didn't resettle), got him up at 6
A almost 4hr (no choice as had to get Claire to school, he was a complete wreck, so I nursed him)
S 9-10:40am
E 11:30am
A 3hr
S 1:40-2:10pm
E 3:30pm
A 2hr
S tried for nap at 4:10/15, but wouldn't go
A 2hr
E 5:30
S fell asleep nursing, maybe 5:45?
Tuesday was a wash as we had my mom's group in the morning.
Today so far...
W ~6:30am (not sure, really)
E 7:30am
A 3h15m?
S 9:48-11:11am (I actually tried for 3h... I know, I don't seem to get it, but he looked tired ::))
E 11:30am
A going to try for 3h15 again and will report back
What does this say to you?
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Going for 3h15 second A and he fell asleep at 3h10 (I didn't even go up til 3h5!!) But, he slept more than an hr, so yippee!!
Here's the full day...
W ~6:30am
E 7:30am
A (3h15?)
S 9:48-11:11am (1h23min)
E 11:30am
A (3h10)
S 2:21-3:32pm (1h10min)
E 3:40pm
A (3h10; tried for 3h, but it took him a bit to settle... he looked so tired :-\)
E 6pm
S 6:40pm
ETA: Had to resettle at 8:30pm, so likely OT still...
Now... if only I can get something similar tomorrow... :P
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That looks pretty great overall hun, he may even be able to do a touch more A. Both those nap lengths would have been UT here x
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Could be... both naps a bust today: 30min then 1hr and couldn't do EBT as C had dance class. This is not so fun, but I'm always hopeful we'll get there. :-\ Thanks!
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Of course you'll get there!
I agree with Katherine, I still think he is UT and can do a bit more A time. I remember that I had to hold Alon for the last 30min of his A time because he was so whiny, but if I would put him for his nap when I *thought* he was ready I would always get an UT nap. We had to go more with the clock than with cues.
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I remember that I had to hold Alon for the last 30min of his A time because he was so whiny, but if I would put him for his nap when I *thought* he was ready I would always get an UT nap. We had to go more with the clock than with cues.
Thanks, this is just what I needed to hear today. He was so fussy and clingy this morning, I thought I just couldn't hold him off any longer, so went to put him down, thinking I'd get somewhere around 3h10 A. He fell asleep in about 2min at ~3h A and did a 1hr nap (definitely UT as he woke and stood up and chatted to himself and the wall for a good 10min before I got him). Part of it is my issue as I don't do great with the whining, esp when G is asking for my attention as well, so then I just put him down. But, I cannot gauge correct A time after a 1hr nap and then the rest of the day is a bust, so it's really not worth it!! I think the second tooth is just about to cut... I can see it under the gum... so hopefully that will help with the whining, and I'll also have to try to hold him off (guess I'll use the carrier to help). This weekend won't be much to show for as we're going to the pumpkin patch Sat afternoon and are always off on Sun due to church, but at least I'll have a plan come Monday. :)
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Well, I've had two more days to work on the morning A and nothing seems consistent. I'm so frustrated. Yesterday, I pushed through the whininess, went to put him down for 3h15-20A and he screamed hard... I ended up holding him til he calmed, did a bit of PD and he fell asleep around 3h25-30min. He slept 1h10... there's a chance he woke because Claire was up by his room, I don't know, but it didn't feel UT like Fri. Today, we didn't go to church as I forgot DH was going OOT and I couldn't face getting 3 kids there after being up every 2-3hr with C. So, I went for same A time (3h15-20) and he seemed to be falling asleep on me. Put him in the crib and he popped up and I did PD til he fell asleep at 3h40 A and slept 22min... I couldn't resettle as he was just screaming and I didn't last more than 5min.
Can you please give me some insight here? His second tooth is cutting, is that why he's so inconsistent?! Or, is it because he's not a full IS (in that he's usually pretty drowsy when I put him down), so sometimes pops up and starts standing? I'm just about at the point of giving up, but then I don't know what to do. :-[ :-\ I'm so, so tired; not having any fun with the big kids; our house is such a mess; and I'm resenting the fact that we've been doing this for 3+ weeks and have basically nothing to show for it. >:(
I'm sorry to be so needy, I just feel helpless to move forward... want to sit on my couch and cry and then am upset I'm letting sleep run our lives.
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Hugs Katie, we've just been through tooth 2 and it hasn't been pretty. No pattern at all to nap lengths, same A one day is screaming OT, next day passing out in my arams, following day UT ::)
This could all be an IS issue (can you ever put him down fully awake? I think that needs to happen if not....drowsy is probably too much at this age...) or it could be he needs more A time consistently. 3h30 wouldn't be at all unheard of at this age. Though I have to say in your situation I would be more than tempted to shoot for set naps, what do you think? At least then you'd know when naps were, and you could hand the 'how long' over to him? I imagine it might make it easier with C&G too?
Not very typical BW routine, but would you consider possibly trying a capped very short nap in the morning then aiming for a lunchtime/early afternoon longer nap? Or would long morning nap work better for you? He's of an age where I think two long naps may already be a bit unlikely? What do you think?
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This could all be an IS issue (can you ever put him down fully awake? I think that needs to happen if not....drowsy is probably too much at this age...)
No, I never really put him down fully awake... well, I tried for a good two weeks and did a ton of PD. Now that I've pushed the A out, he either falls right to sleep when I sit down to wind down or he screams and then sort of passes out (it can be a quick transition from really mad to sleeping and I rarely get up to put him down before he settles as once he starts screaming it seems hard to get him to stop in the crib :-\). I took the quiz last week and although it was quite varied, touchy got the most (but, that could be skewed as I took it while he was actively teething... he does have several touchy traits though, even when 'well').
Set naps... hmm, I'm not opposed to them in theory and would actually like the predictability, but I'm scared to try them. His nights are pretty rough right now and seem a bit worse when OT, so the thought of pushing through that to 'set' the naps is daunting for me. But, I guess it can't get much worse than it already is?! I'm just not sure how long I can continue coping with not much sleep at night, so am hesitant to rock the boat when I feel like we're close to routine, but just can't quite get there. It's probably madness to keep trying, though. :-\. I don't know... I think I'm at my breaking point and am feeling a bit desperate... have cried about this a few times today (didn't help that I was upstairs doing bath/bedtime with the big two from 6:30-8:30, only to have baby C wake up at 8:45 for an hr. ::))
What times would I do the set naps? What if I can't get him down?
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Lots of (((hugs))), Katie. It can be real real hard, I know.
I think that what is important to remember is that it's very very difficult to ST when baby is teething. It's almost impossible IMO.
Once I managed to ST and *then* teething came then it was ok. In our case we had to keep the routine the same even when teething or we'd have to start ST all over again.
Perhaps Katherine has a point there with the set naps. Yk, there comes a time when we have to think of our sanity as well and A times and sleepy cues are not always the answer. Unfortunately I don't have experience with it so I don't have much advice to give in that regard.
What I would also add, because you mentioned that he is touchy and that he still goes down drowsy, that for us (Alon was touchy as well) there couldn't be any WD. I know it sounds crazy, but the WD was so short, always putting him in his cot and then leaving his room. If he would cry I would come back and do PD, but I could stay for a second after putting him in his cot, he found any kind of WD too stimulating. It's just a thought.
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Hugs honey, I know and understand your frustration :-*
Noa has a point about the teething. Though I do accept it is nigh-on impossible to find a time when teething/illness/developmental milestones aren't in the mix somewhere. Sometimes you just have to get on with it I guess, but it has to be your call.
I also like Noa's point about winddown. I think if he is in danger of passing out on you when you go to sit down, then don't sit down. Put him into sleep sack (if that's what you use) then straight down wide awake. I know it's hard if he's really tough to calm in the crib, but I think probably until you do, he's never going to really be an IS if you see what I mean? :-\. Hugs for the tough nights, they aren't great here either and I totally get not wanting to make them worse, but if it's an independent sleep issue, then they may not get worse if you maintain status quo but they aren't going to get better either.
If you were going to do set naps I'd probably do (based on a 7am WU) something like 10.15am (aiming 1.5h) and 3pm (aiming 1.5h), with BT 7.30/8pm if you want a two long nap kind of day. If you want more of a short am/long pm then I might do something like a 30 min capped nap at 9.30/10ish (if you can get him down, possibly you could AP it in the sling?) and then a long nap at 12.30/1? BT 7pm ish? It would be trial and error and as you say could make things worse. If he doesn't go down, you just push on to next set time -15 mins or BT -30 mins and accept the inevitable OT. You could always AP a quick CN late in the day if neither nap has worked out?
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Thanks, ladies... I appreciate the input.
I am commited to get him to IS, but am VERY weary of PD right now, to the point of feeling anxious about it and like I may scream in his face. :-[ :'( :-[ It's terrible to admit that, but after 3 weeks of it with rough nights from teething, that's the unfortunate reality. :( So, I'm holding him for now and will put him down more awake once this second tooth is through. Of course, we are going OOT next week from Thurs-Mon, so there will be a little set back, but eventually we will get there.
As for set naps, I'm going to try to push to 3.5hr A first and if things are still not consistently better I will try it. He did ~3h15 (not really sure of when he woke as I was in with G) and 3h today, which gave 1hr and 1hr10min naps, so he must be able to do more. I'm really hesitant to do the short morning nap and longer pm nap, as there is such little chance for me to get a CN out of him anymore that it just sounds like disaster should he short nap both of them. He seems to do better on an evenly spread day, so for now I think I still need to shoot for 2x1-1.5 hr naps. Today actually felt normal.
What I would also add, because you mentioned that he is touchy and that he still goes down drowsy, that for us (Alon was touchy as well) there couldn't be any WD. I know it sounds crazy, but the WD was so short, always putting him in his cot and then leaving his room.
This is hard for me to wrap my head around, because I've always sat down and had a little cuddle with my babies before putting them down. Can you tell me exactly what you did? How did you cue him that sleep was coming? I feel like if I just walk in the room, turn off the light and turn on the fan, and then put him down he'll think it's some kind of game. :-\ I don't know... it is kinda strange, he goes from crying to sleeping so quickly (in my arms, that is :P).
Katherine - I hope things have evened out for you after your hectic combo?! :-*
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Can you tell me exactly what you did?
We walked around the house and garden and said goodbye to all the rooms :D I spoke in a very low voice and told him that now it's sleepy time, we are going to his room, put him in bed and will have his nap. Then we would go in his room, change the nappy while I repeat what I said before another time about it being sleepy time, put the blinds down, white noise on and in the cot! Inside the room it all goes pretty quickly, maybe a minute or so.
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Katie, we have never had any kind of long wind down. DS treats cuddling as wind up rather than wind down:). I usually do quieter play before nap time and than maybe 5min of some walk with him around the flat, into his room, blinds, sleeping bad, night night and that's all:). He usually speaks to himself in bed to wind himself down:).
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We go straight from play time, maybe a few mins of me carrying him around. Then into room, into sleeping bag, quick cuddle and song and straight down. B chats to himself too or moans/shouts if a bit OT.
Hugs hun and I think you are doing the right thing if this is all feeling too much. Look after yourself, I know how it feels to be exhausted with other LOs to care for. You're doing a fab job xx
(Sadly B is still ill! Cough and cold, so sleep rubbish, but not your problem! Thanks for the thoughts though :D )
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Thanks, ladies... that's helpful. I'll start giving that a shot. The second tooth is nearly through, so I'm thinking I can go back to working toward IS in the next day or two (although I have a couple morning commitments in the next week and then we go out of town, so not sure how far we'll get).
The randomness of naps is really bugging me, so I've been thinking more and more about set naps. If he usually wakes between 6-6:30, does 9:30 and 2:30pm sound about right? Do I hold steady to those times for two weeks or so? And what about the mornings we're out (usually only once or twice a week, but still). Maybe this is a post for the Naps board?!
Look after yourself, I know how it feels to be exhausted with other LOs to care for. You're doing a fab job xx
Thank you... made me cry! :-* Feel like I'm going wrong in so many places and am definitely exhausted. :( Sorry B is still ill... hope he's better soon!! (((Hugs)))
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Just checking in to see how you are? :-*
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Ok, thanks. :-* Not much different, really. Was attempting to get the first nap set at 9:30, but ruined it this morning as he was really unsettled from 4:30 on, so when he did fall asleep I let him sleep rather than waking him. :-\ Just going to get through the next week and get back on track after we come back from OOT. Boy, this third time around is messier than I had imagined! :P
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They all survive somehow despite our best efforts ;). Hope you have a good trip x
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They all survive somehow despite our best efforts ;).
LOL... good thing!! ;) :P
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Right there with you Katie! This 3rd time around involves so mch more juggling than I anticipated! Sounds like you're going away..hope it all goes well! I'm following along with interest as my little one is doing similar things. I can't seem to work that 3 nap routine I posted about on the multiple kids board anymore!
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I can't seem to work that 3 nap routine I posted about on the multiple kids board anymore!
I did that routine with my 2nd and it worked great right until about this age. I couldn't get that 3rd nap to work anymore either, so ended up moving to the more traditional 2 nap routine. It made it more difficult in terms of getting out, but only lasted a couple months before I was cutting one of the naps to keep the day in check. If I remember right though, you don't really have the option of doing a traditional am/pm nap routine. :-\
Trip was a mini-nightmare in terms of sleep, and this poor little guy has lost all self-settling skills. I feel so bad, as things never seemed to go so far off with the other two. :-[ :( I think it's a combination of his personality, being the third, and my tiredness. My plan is to put him in the swing to nap for a few days and hopefully catch up, work on cutting out NFs this week, and go back to putting him in his crib for daytime sleeps this weekend. I think I'm going for 3.5hr A, unless he just can't handle it (really low on sleep right now) and will hope we get some decent naps.
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That sounds like a good plan, Katie.
Is there a way for you to get some rest as well? I remember that if I was well rested ST or tweaking EASY was always easier.
Have you though about Katherine's idea about set naps? Maybe that could help you go back on track?
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Thanks, Noa :-*
Is there a way for you to get some rest as well? I remember that if I was well rested ST or tweaking EASY was always easier.
I don't know... DH is on board with doing whatever needed to help. I think I can nap a bit this weekend, and may have my mom come over Fri morning. But actually, I did a lot of settling last night before 10pm. I just decided enough was enough and sat on his floor and had him lie down himself and go to sleep. It took one hr the first time and 45min the next (yes, all before 10pm :P). I had to go in and do it at 12:20am as well and then it only took 10min! So, I fed him at 10:30 and 4:50... if he does a night where I don't have to settle in between, that's 6 straight hrs of sleep, which I haven't had in a loooooong time (maybe a handful of times since he's been born!). I'm hopeful!!
Have you though about Katherine's idea about set naps? Maybe that could help you go back on track?
Yes... but, I'm quite nervous to try. Because he's on the touchy side, I'm hesitant to have to push him through to a set time if the first nap is a bust. Plus, no matter how hard I try, I can't get A times out of my head! ::)
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Well done hun it sounds like the night went pretty well x
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WTG!
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Awesome night!, I can only dream of 6 hrs straight sleep! Sounds like he's got the hang of it :):) I hope it continues through.. Xx and I too see A times in my sleep (the few random hours I have :) )
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Last night was pretty good too...
BT 7pm (asleep 7:20ish, due to PD)
NW 8:30, quick resettle
DF 10:30pm
NF 3:50am
And here is today...
WU 6:50am
E 7:30am
A (3.5hr)
S 10:20-12pm (1hr40min)
E 12pm
A (3.5hr)
E 3pm
S 3:30-4:00pm (30min)
E 6:30pm
BT 7pm (asleep 7:30pm, due to PD)
NW 8:15pm, quick resettle
NW 9:40-10:20pm, struggled :(
NF 11:20pm (this is where we are now)
So... decent. First nap was great and I actually woke him. He seemed tired early into the second A time (around 2/2.5hr :-\). I fed him before second nap as he doesn't eat much for solids and we had to leave for Claire's dance class at 4:15. Was hoping he'd sleep the full 45min and actually my mom was willing to stay here so he could sleep longer, but he only lasted 30min. I should have fed him at 6pm and done BT at 6:30... we got home from dance right at 6 and DH had warmed up dinner, so we sat down to eat first. But, he was pretty OT at BT and seemed like it when trying to resettle at 9:40 as well. He almost fell asleep a couple times, but had such a hard time finishing it off. :(
So... what do you think of the second nap? OT/UT? Should I hold at 3.5hr for a few more days before trying something else? Maybe I should have let him sleep 2hr in the morning and then it wouldn't have mattered if I only got 30min in the afternoon. :-\ He's in the swing for naps... haven't worked up the courage to do PD again. I also need DH to put up the room-darkening blinds.
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It does sound pretty good, there is progress, Katie!
It sounds to me like OT, but difficult to be sure... IIWY I would stick to the same A time for 3 more days and only then conclude anything. Alon was also touchy and he did need the time to get used to new A times and to catch up on OT. You can always do BT 30min earlier.
And I think the naps in the swing is totally fine. One battle at a time :D.
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Thanks, Noa.
Did the same routine Friday and it went pretty well... not much to report on the second nap as it had to be in the car, so still only 30/35min. Tried for the same again today and he only slept 50min for the first nap. Thursday was 1h40min (I woke him), Friday was just shy of 2hr (he woke himself), and then 50min today. The inconsistency is frustrating, because he's hard to judge after a short nap in the morning... only got 30min in the afternoon. :(
I'm sure it could just be a random nap, I don't think it was UT (it seemed like I pushed him a bit to get to 3.5hr), and you wouldn't think OT if he handled it fine the last two days. So, I'm wondering if he's hungry. :-\ He takes hardly any solids (maybe a few bites... on occasion will eat a whole 'serving'), whether purees or finger foods. Sometimes I do a top-up feed and sometimes I forget. :-[ He only lasts 3-3.5hr between BFs with no solids, so I guess I should just do another feed or a one-sided feed at 3hr. The trouble is, sometimes I don't feed right away in the morning when he wakes... and then there's a school run, etc. I guess I don't know what I'm looking for here, just rambling, sorry! Any thoughts?
And I think the naps in the swing is totally fine. One battle at a time :D.
Thanks for this... I often beat myself up over it, because I know how great an IS is, but you're right... I can only handle so much at once. I'm hoping BT will get easier, it's a bit of an OT fight each night so far, but I think it's getting better. Then, hopefully we can transition the naps.
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Katie was his night any different before the 50 minute nap as opposed to the longer ones? More settled in the second half by any chance? 50 mins sounds UT to me, DS will quite frequently do those after a good night/shorter A time. Does he have any tired signs?
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Katie was his night any different before the 50 minute nap as opposed to the longer ones? More settled in the second half by any chance?
I can't really remember. :-\ ::) I don't think it was probably much different, but can't say for sure. I'll have to keep better track!
Does he have any tired signs?
They don't seem super reliable. He rubs his eyes and gets fussy and irritable. But, I often think that as he's not a great sleeper much of the time, they're hard to see because he's quite active and just pushes through. It's been like this since he was little... we were out at the lake one day this summer and my uncle asked if he ever got tired. He does, obviously, but after that fussy stage he gets a second wind and just keeps on going (that is, until you try to stop him by winding down or restricting him in the car seat or carrier... then he totally loses it :().
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That sounds like my DS! He totally loses it most of the time these days :( maybe it's a third kid thing...I've put my issues down to AP and partly not being able to wind him down in time because I've got the others to deal with and someone always needs something. Just wish I could fix his naps! Hope your nights are getting better?.. Xx
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maybe it's a third kid thing...
Makes me wonder why people told me the third is usually easy-going because they have to be. :-\ I think my second and third got mixed up!! :P ;) I'm wondering if it's an AP issue for me too. Nights are ok... still feeding every 4-5hr, wish it was longer but better than 3-4! ::)
Sunday is always a wash due to church... he had random naps after nursing, in the car, etc. Started with 3.5hr A again this morning and got 30min. Then of course got a second 30min nap just now. Arrrggghhh, it really shouldn't be this hard, right?!? Going to try for a few more days this week and then I don't know... I may start trying to put him down in the crib for naps as the swing isn't giving consistency either and/or reevaluate set times (will probably wait to try until net week though, as our DST ends this weekend). Is consistency really too much to ask at this point? :-\
What do you all think? I'm wondering if I can't see the best way forward because I'm stuck right in the middle of it. What's your outside perspective?
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I also got told that... But my second and third got mixed up too. My third is such a monkey.. Won't sit still, will try to wriggle out of everything, scream to get attention and I wonder if its cos there's so much stimulation..? I'm still stuck in that three nap routine I can't seem to get out if because its the only one that works with the other two and their things.. My whole week is a write off bcos dd has swim week. So every morning he's napping in the carrier.. Way to go for consistency and proper naps :( I'm also stuck right in the middle so not the best to give an outside perspective! I feel for you.. Hugs hun xx
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Katie, I don't remember really where you stand with your A times right now. I do remember we were talking about extending them.
Are you consistent with the A times you give now (besides on Sundays)? For how long have you offered 3.5h A time in the morning?
How is he waking up from this 30min nap?
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Besides Sunday, I did 3.5hr last Wed, Thur, Fri, Sat, and now Mon and Tues. Got 50min, 1h40, 2h, 50min, and now 2x30min. Today I settled in crib with PD as I figured if he isn't going to sleep long in the swing anyway, then he should be working on IS! :P So, today the A was more like 3h40min. He wakes up pretty mad, but that's kind of how he is... he never really wakes up 'happy'. Sometimes he grunts for awhile (mainly in the mornings), but otherwise cries. :-\
Had to do a lot of PD for the second nap and he did 30min again. That one was def OT. :(
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Well, some good news from me...
My mom takes the big kids on Tuesday afternoons, so I had the chance to get him another little CN in the car. I put him down at bedtime and he went to sleep all on his own within minutes. ;D ;D I left the room and he didn't cry and I didn't have to go back in. That has only happened a handful of times in the last 8mo! And, he stayed asleep the whole time (until 10:45)!! That is even more rare (like it's maybe happened once or twice). I typically DF around 10:30, but was still getting ready for bed, so missed it, but hey, I'm happy with that! Now, if I can just get naps and solids sorted out, I can start working of dropping those NFs. :P
My whole week is a write off bcos dd has swim week. So every morning he's napping in the carrier.. Way to go for consistency and proper naps :(
Also, meant to say... (((Hugs))), be gentle with yourself. There's only so much you can do with 3 (and 3 totally different sets of needs)! We'll get there, we will! Maybe not until they're on one nap, but that eventually happens for everybody. :P ;)
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Glad to hear you had a good night :).
IIWY I would actually keep on increasing those A times. If yesterday you managed to do 3:40h even if by mistake, keep on doing that for a few days and if naps are still not consistent then increase again to 3:50h. That's what I would do.
I think it's great you put him for his naps in his crib. I mean, like I said before we should fight one battle at a time, but if he is anyway not napping well in the swing then it's a good opportunity to tackle that.
I wouldn't worry so much about the second nap being short. I would just do a slightly earlier BT, but it might well may be that he doesn't need this second nap to be a full nap anymore.
Alon woke up as well unhappy from naps, even if he napped 2h! Always always crying :( But I guess it was his way of calling us to come get him.
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B often wakes up crying too, I've made the mistake more than once of thinking it was because he was OT but I just think it's him sometimes.
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That sounds like an awesome night! Good work :)
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So, another 2x30min nap day. ::) But, he's self-settling so much better than he ever has before, so I'm going to hold onto that for a positive! I went in just a few times for first nap and only once for second nap and then he settled all by himself. Of course, he fell asleep at the BT feed, but there's no avoiding that really (unless I feed him down with the family, but I'd rather have a decent feed).
Here's what the day looked like...
WU 6:50/55am
A 3h35/40min
S 10:30-11am
A 2h30min
S 1:30-2pm
A 3h35/4h
S 6pm??
I don't know if I should keep pushing the morning A, or pull back to 3hr with a short nap and try for a longer pm nap. It just seems like the first A is on the verge of being quite long that after a short nap he really struggles to recover, whereas if it wasn't so long, he might have more of a chance at not doing an OT second nap. Does that make sense?
I think I might start a thread about set naps on the Naps board. I know I've been hesitant and I still might not have the guts to do it, but it feels kind of crazy chasing around these A times and not really 'finding' anything. :-\
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That totally makes sense and often what I've found is that the A time before a nap is almost as important as the nap length itself. For instance if there was a really long A time followed by a short nap, the next A time has to be shorter than normal for them to recover. Or that they're grumpy for the whole of that A time. That's what I found with my other two...my third little monkey I've yet to figure him out!
What do you think about setting that first A time at 3 hrs and then short nap, then aim for a longer pm one? I think I did that with ds1 around 9 mo.
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Will hold your hand Katie if you start a new thread/consider trying set naps. I'm giving it a go with DS right now after one too many early mornings ::) too early to say if it will work but I'm going to try to stick to it for a week and see how we go x
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Count me in too Hun :)
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I don't know if I should keep pushing the morning A, or pull back to 3hr with a short nap and try for a longer pm nap.
I thought you mentioned before that it's more difficult for you to figure out the second A time after a short nap... or do I remember that wrong?
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^^^ Ha... no, you're remembering right, Noa! I guess I was thinking that as I'm getting a short nap either way, if I pulled back the first A, he wouldn't be so OT by the second nap and I might have more of a chance at a decent one. :-\
I honestly don't know what's best... my brain hurts from trying to figure him out and I actually feel like I don't have a lot of brain cells left because I'm so tired. 8mos of sleeping in mostly 3hr stretches is doing me in. :( I guess I was thinking if I had the guts to try set naps, then I would be a little more 'free' from the endless tweaking... and really, that's what the majority of other friends I have do (naps at such and such). I don't know, I just feel lost and frustrated and thought I'd ask around and see what were others' experiences of set naps. Surely, he'd have to lengthen one at some point, right? ???
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Yes, I think set naps would be what IWWD at this point.
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Thanks :-*
What do you think about setting that first A time at 3 hrs and then short nap, then aim for a longer pm one? I think I did that with ds1 around 9 mo.
I think that's a good place to start and am going to try it tomorrow. We have a full afternoon tomorrow with visiting DH's work and then a Halloween birthday party, so I'm sure it'll all go pear shaped at some point, but worth a try as what we're doing now is just not working.
Katherine - What are you aiming for in your naps?
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Katie I'll pm you xx
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Good luck with that Katie.. Hope it works for you. I need to rethink my strategy somehow too. It's all falling apart here. Fingers xx for you!
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Is ok that I continue to reply here? Haven't got any replies on my set naps post and that's ok, I would just like to continue to get a little outside perspective. It's only been two days of trying something different and I know that's not enough to prove anything, but I don't know that it's going to work to go 'backward' as he's so hard to get down. :-\
Yesterday, I tried for 3h A, 45ish min nap, 2.5h A, longer nap. It didn't end up totally like that, but really not bad. It looked like this...
W 6:30am
A (3h12m)
S 9:42-10:12am (30min)
A (2h45min)
S 12:58-2:12pm (1h15m)
A 3h50min
S 5:05-5:35pm (30min), in car as was going to be a later night due to Halloween and prep for DST ending
A 2h
S 7:30/45pm (not really sure)
So, I tried for the same today and it was an epic fail. Couldn't get him down, spent 45min doing PD with a screaming baby. I was upset and the rest of the family was too. Here's what happened...
WU 7:30ish (not totally sure)
A (tried for 3h, didn't go)
E 11:30am
A (total A was 4h15min)
S 11:45-1:15pm!!
So, maybe I've underestimated his A this whole time?!? Feeling like the worst BW ever!! I know that one nap doesn't prove anything as said above. But, maybe I should go back to pushing the morning A. I know, I know I'm totally waffling. I just really want something to work as after 8.5mo, we could really use some stability around here.
What do you think?! Push to 3h45min A and then keep going until I get a decent nap? I've never had a high A time kid before (obviously! ::) :-[). Thanks for your patience with me, I apologize for being so indecisive!!
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Just got a sec now hun and will be back, but can you link your set naps post?
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Sure... Laura just replied, so here it is. Set naps at 8.5mo... any experiences, what does it look like?
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Katie your second day when it didn't work is looking like my day today.. I wonder if I too am not pushing enough..I know lots of mums have success with set naps so maybe it's just a matter of persisting. Hope the rest of your weekend goes ok..and clock change too
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Katie, how was he after he woke rom that nap? Was he happy or was the nap just under 1.5 hr? I've seen before sometimes 1hr25 min nap is ot. This morning DS dis the same thing. But he woke screaming at 1h25 mins...I'm feeding now,. Did you end up doing another nap later in the day?
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He never really wakes happy, so it's hard to tell. I definitely got OT 1h25min naps with DD when she transitioned to one nap, so it could be a possibility. Was really tired this afternoon... screamed again when I tried for another nap, so took him out for a drive. :P Not sure what's going on.
Since I'm mostly working on naps, I should stick to the other thread now. Thanks so much, ladies, for your encouragement and support! :-* :-*