9 month old doesn't want to sleep during day, even though tired!

[drex34]

Howdy there,

I’m writing as I need some help with my nine month old son. He is a catnapper and I have great difficulty getting him to sleep during the day.

He started sleeping through the night when he was 7 weeks old but stopped at 5 months. He has always been a great self settler and hasn’t used sleeping props like being cuddled to sleep or fed to sleep or dummies etc. When he started night waking again we would cuddle him till he stopped crying, then use the PU/PD if he got distressed when we put him back in his cot at night. What also worked was sitting in there with him singing until he calmed down and put himself to sleep. He started sleeping through the night again 2 weeks ago but this all stopped last week when this new nap problem came up.

Now it is the daytime naps that we are having great difficulty with, he doesn’t want to have them, gets overtired, and now he is waking in the night again.

I know it is cos he is overtired but I can’t get him to take his naps, and once we do get him to sleep he wakes 45 mins later grumpy.

He wakes at 7.30
Brekky – baby cereal + fruit + B/F
Activity for hour or so.

Once I see he is tired it is nap attempt time. For about 20 mins we have non stimulating time. Cuddles, lullabies, reading stories etc. when I put him down he is definitely tired but not asleep and I leave the room. He lies there quietly and I think he is going to sleep, but then he decides…. Nup, it’s play time. He will stand up and play in his cot, hit the walls cos he likes the noise it makes etc. He does this quite happily for 3 HOURS until he gets incredibly grumpy and tired and starts screaming. PU/PD, sitting in there with him singing, just lying there with him doesn’t work during the day (does at night though) cos if he sees me he wants to play. I cant swaddle him cos he gets out of it. Once he does go to sleep (which is normally lunch time) he sleeps 45 mins and wakes up grumpy and I can’t get him back to sleep. Then

Lunch – bout 5 tablespoons of vegies / fruit, followed by B/F
Activity for 1.5 hours
Then it all starts again.

After an hour or so of hoping he will go to sleep, I’ll get him up and do another 20 mins of boring time to settle him, he is put down again sleepy but not asleep, and then it all starts again. At 3pm I’ll give up and get him up again for afternoon tea hoping it will distract him into sleep
2 tablespoons of yoghurt / fruit / custard + bottle of water

This only started last week and I don’t want to get him in bad habits so im seeking help early. He is so overtired during the day, he is now getting up during the night again.

Until last week although he only catnapped, slept 45 mins, up for 2 hours, then would self settle and sleep only 45 mins but wake up happy and chatting away to himself. We weren’t able to get him back to sleep, even though he was happy we could see he was still tired.

Since last week he is having maybe 2 x 45 minute naps during the day. As soon as I know he is tired (rubs eyes is only sign) I have 20 minutes of boring time and I put him down tired but not asleep. Just when we think he has gone to asleep cos he has been quiet for 10 mins, he perks up and starts playing by himself again. We aren’t stimulating him, he is. At night he goes down bout 7pm, talks to himself for an hour and sleeps till 7.30 with one night waking for 30 mins or so.

Does anyone have any advice? I have looked through some of the help pages but haven’t found anything I haven’t tried yet (but I am new to the page so I am sure I have missed something). I am glad the refusing to sleep is during the day and not the night, but I can't leave the house cos I am spending the day trying to get him to sleep!

Hope someone can help me.

[anna*]

So what time are you putting him down in his cot for his first nap? I'm wondering if he needs a bit more activity time? Also at this age I wouldn't worry so much about doing 20 mins boring activities - as long as you have a solid wind-down routine and don't actually do anything overstimulating.

[drex34]

Howdy,
I'm putting him down for his first nap at about 8.30am. He has always gotten tired quickly in the mornings so about one hour is all we keep him up for. I can try keeping him up for longer but it is now 2.45am and he woke up screaming an hour ago. He was all settled and thought he was alseep but he is playing with himself again. He is now refusing to go to sleep at night now too apparently. doh!

[drex34]

Hello again,

I tried keeping him up an extra 15 minutes longer than normal for his first nap today. It worked a treat, asleep within half an hour. Thank you so much! He still woke up after 45 mins grumpy and I couldnt resettle him, but thats still 45 minutes more sleep than he has had this time of the day all week. After he has only slept 45 mins, do I keep him up about 2 hours before putting him down, and then keep adding 15 minutes to the A time until he starts to nap longer? I have been looking at many different postings (this site ROCKS!) so I think that is what I am supposed to be doing...... fingers crossed.

Thanx again :-)

[~*Nicole*~]

I was going to suggest the longer A time too! Also, once you see eye rubbing.....taking 20 mins to calm down and then putting him in for the nap might leave you missing his "sleepy window". Sort of like when you are tired but get a second wind?? Just a thought that this may be why he thinks he is not tired and that it is play time.

Good luck!

[drex34]

howdy guys,
well today was definately better, I hope I am on the right track. Today so far:

A - 0800 - 0915
E - 0805
S - 0935 - 1020 (only took 20 minutes to sleep but woke up after 45 mins. Was happy but couldn't get him back to sleep).

A - 1020 - 1230
E - 1130 (early lunch by half an hour)
S - 1255 - 1340 (only took 25 mins to sleep and he woke up and put himself back to sleep, except knock at door at that crucial moment, dogs started barking so he woke up crying.... couldn't get back to sleep)

A - 1340....... now (1710 here)
E - 1500 (usual time)
S - Put down at 1545, just nodded off at 1615 (30 mins to sleep) when I heard the dreaded hiccup. This happens a lot, just as he nods off he gets them and completely wakes up. I got him up to give him a drink to get rid of them, but by then he got his second wind. Put him down again at 1630, he has been happily playing in his cot since then, we just got him up (1710 our time). I figured its nearly tea time so may as well keep him up till 1900 at usual bed time now. With no afternoon nap I know will definately have NW though......

Am I doing the right thing? Am so bummed that he would have slept longer if the dogs wouldn't have woken him up, and would have had a nice third nap if it wasn't for the hiccups.... again.

If he is going to sleep within 30 minutes with this routine, do I stick with it for 3 or so days, then start increasing his A time after each nap till he sleeps longer? I have been busily looking through the site, but I may have misinterpreted!

Thanx again guys, today is already sooooo much better.

[~*Nicole*~]

It's hard to say. All los are different, but I know a lot of BW babies tend to fall asleep in a shorter amount of time once they are well adjusted to a good routine. The fact that he takes up to 30 minutes could indicate that he is not really that tired yet. So increasing the A times is probably a good idea. But you are right about needing to do so slowly. I hope someone else has a good recommendation for you.

Have a great day!

-Nicole

[anna*]

If he wakes happy I wouldn't bother trying to extend his nap, I think the key is getting the A times right. If he wakes miserable, use PUPD for 15 mins or so by then you'll know if there's any chance he'll settle back to sleep or not. I still think that first nap was short because he was undertired, and the fact that he woke up happy seems to suggest that he only needed one sleep cycle and wasn't tired enough to transition to a 2nd cycle.

I would keep working on those A times. The first A time of the day can be a bit shorter than the rest, but I would still aim for 2.5 hours at least, if not 3. At this age, eye rubbing and yawning can mean they're ready for a change of scene/activity, so try that before assuming that he's tired.

Yes, I think that increasing his A times by 15 mins every couple of days is a good way to go. Keep the last 15 mins (the 'extra' A time) low key. You probably want to get towards 3.5 hours A time after a good nap, or 3ish after a short one - of course your LO may have different needs but 3-4 hours A time is average for 8-10 months.

Let us know how you get on!

[drex34]

Thank you so much!

I will definately try to do that. This morning he was woken up an hour earlier than normal cos of the dogs (we are dogsitting a hungry labrador who wakes us all up with her tail banging into the walls...) so I put him down after an hour of A cos he was yawning. He went to sleep within 15 mins and was having a nice long nap but I had to wake him for an appt (the one day I had plans). Since then he had been quite poopy but is asleep now.

One thing I'm still unsure of. If I put him down and after 15 minutes he is still happily playing in his cot, how long do I leave him before I get him up for more A time ?(but not overstimulating A time). And after I got him up for relaxing A time, how long should it be? As he hardly ever gives any signs of tiredness it is really hard to pick when the ideal moment is. Today was obvious cos he looked half asleep, but that is rare. Like what if I get him up for 30 minutes A time, but his window was after 15 minutes..... if that makes sense.

I am soooo grateful for your advice!

[anna*]

TBH at this age their tired signs can be really unreliable. I'd say you need to start watching the clock a bit, and putting him down a bit later. If he's still playing in his crib, leave him in their until he eventually sleeps, but take that into account for the next A time and put him down a bit later.

Does that make sense?

[drex34]

Howdy,

definately makes sense! Getting the hang of it now! I have been keeping a note of all his A and S times so I know what has been working. He had a great long nap this morning so I'll keep that A time for a few days before I try to extend it.

Thank you again so much. It's great having my happy little guy back again

[anna*]

This is a great update I'm so glad things are going well for you!!