WIWO 13 months old question

[jlmlyle]

So I think I have determined that my DD new naps/bedtime protestations have something to do with separation anxiety intensified/brought on by emerging molars along with another tooth in the front that is almost cutting.  She is also clingy throughout the day though she is fine with other people and being held by them.

So she is beginning to protest as soon as I get up from the lullaby/book reading and stands up in the crib immediately.  How am I supposed to do WIWO with that?  It's as though I can't even WO for the first time. Also she has had very little sleeping problems since about 6 months, so she is definitely an independent sleeper with self soothing skills.  I think I have to do WIWO because her crying seems to now be escalating beyond a mantra so I think I need to try WIWO.  She seems mad and not just tired.  She had IBprofin 3 hours before bedtime tonight, so it could be pain, but I am already managing that as best I can.  But I am not sure if the MC changes as they age.  We haven't dealt with MC really since she was about 7 months.

This is all in the midst of the 2-1 switch but I know something is up because in the past when she wasn't ready for nap she'd simply play and than drift off to sleep.  Now the same protest occurs if UT or OT.

I am going to get a pediatrician appointment ASAP to rule out sickness, however.

Thanks,
Jasmine

[*Natasha*]

Could you post your routine for us it might need tweaking.

[LizzieN]

My guy stands up and screams as I walk out too, but it's a bit different sounds more like a "how dare you leave me" scream.  I do walk out, then wait and see if it settles back down or not.  If he doesn't, usually it means something is wrong (he refluxes A LOT)....

He has been cutting molars also and has had a cold, so I've been doing quite a bit of APOP to get him down...if alls well he is still falling asleep independently, but if he can't I help him.  I'm wondering if since you are transitioning too your LO is more tired by bed time and that is making it harder as well.

Our LO is 15 months and I'm not transitioning yet, was thinking of it, but then he got sick.  What I found with Dyllan after 12 months was that for a brief period there if I didn't get him down at exactly the right time, forget it!!  Thankfully it did settle down and I hope this does for you as well!

Better run, keep us posted on how you go
Hugs
lizzie

[jlmlyle]

Thanks for the replies.  Well her routine has kind of been all over the place as I have been trying to adjust things (plus we came back from travel where I just let her catch up on sleep and she had a few long sleep days) but this is what we were doing for three days or so before this really began:

wake time: 7 (sometimes she wakes at 6:30)
sippy/bottle upon waking (will try to move to mealtimes)
breakfast: 9
nap: 10:30 -11 (wake at 30 minutes) this she has been resisting some days (plays for 30 minutes), sleeping on others
lunch: 12:30
4 oz milk: 1:30
nap: trying for 2:30, but she seems to not fall asleep till 3:00 wake her at 4:00
dinner: 5:30/6:00
8oz milk 7:15
bed: 7:30

So I have been waking her from her 2nd nap at 4 pm because if I let her sleep past than she acts like she wants to go to bed at 7:30, sometimes rubs her eyes, etc.  but than won't actually settle (just rolling around) till 8:30-9:00 and than she wakes up early at 6:00.  With waking her up from a nap at 4:00 than she falls asleep between 7:30-8 and wakes at 7 am.  But this has been with less than 2 full hours of naps per day due to our recent difficulties. I am starting to think her sleep needs are more like 13 hrs a day total. But I am concerned about this being low.  But she has always been a bit lower on the amounts by about 30 minutes.  She is textbook/angel.

Yesterday was not good.  I tried to put her down later at 10:45, she fell asleep standing up, not sure when, but before 7:30.  Was fussing on and off in her attempt to sleep so I was watching her at the door and as she stirred at 7:40 she started crying angrily when she spotted me, so I got her up.  We tried for a nap again at 1:30 where she cried but fell asleep pretty quickly.  She was clearly tired.  She woke at 3:00 (1.5 hr nap), and I got her to bed by 7:15 so 4 hrs wake time, falling asleep at 7:40 and waking by 6:30 (when I checked the video monitor this morning)

Do you really think it could be a matter of timing? So I am not sure how to tweak things and we have teething in addition.  I was trying to keep an earlier short AM nap so that the PM nap could start earlier.  I wish it was at 1:30, but it has been a while since she could do that.  I think her wake times keep extending. I am toying with the idea of doing an 11:00 nap and letting it go long, and having an afternoon cat nap, but I'm not sure. That would be completely switching what I am currently doing but she isn't going down as early as 1:30 anymore like she was... I know I may need to do 2 a days and 1 a day soon.

Thanks,
Jasmine

[jlmlyle]

So I don't think the routine is simply it.  I have done the following for the last 4 mornings...

wake up has been 7:00 and today 6:30

Tuesday: nap at 10, asleep at 10:30
Wednesday: nap at 10:30, asleep by 10:40
Thursday: nap at 10:45, asleep by 11:30
Friday: nap at 11:00 asleep by 11:35 after some assisted crying. She settled into a mantra at which point I left and she fell asleep within 5 minutes.  No sleepy cues all morning, I was really watching for them.

Ughh!  We are going to the pediatrician today to rule out sickness.  She was getting super mad anytime I laid her down.

Jasmine

[deckchariot]

Always a good idea to make sure she's not ill - as you don't want to do sleep training when she is.  Provided she's ok, I'm guessing you're in that awkward stage of the 2 to 1 transition where your day is not really long enough to get 2 good naps in (with good A times), but it's still a bit long for just 1 nap.  There are several ways you can go:
1) go to one nap, move bedtime 30 min earlier to compensate for no am nap
2) keep 30 min am nap, do 4 hrs of A time before the pm nap, (since she doesn't seem to want to sleep before then - you may need to play with this a bit) but let her sleep as long as she needs to.  Then make sure you've got 3.5  - 4 hrs of A time before bedtime (so her bedtime may be later)
3) cut the am nap by 10 min, move pm nap a bit earlier, keep 4:00 wake up and 7:30/8 bedtime
4) move the am nap 30 min earlier, but still keep it to 30 min, that will move the pm nap 30 min earlier, still wake her at 4 and do 7:30 bedtime.
5) do one nap for 1-3 days, then do a 2 nap day to "catch up" from OT

does that make sense?

hth
michelle

[jlmlyle]

Hi Michelle,

You responded to my other post (the one about travel and 2-1), and I was going to try the 20 minute nap thing first, but I had such difficulties yesterday that I thought I'd try to stretch her out to 11:00 and see how that went.  She was up 4.5 hours because she woke 30 min early.  She was clearly OT with that as she woke 30 minute into her nap (which didn't even start until 11:30) and than resettled quickly and slept till I woke her to go to the doctor (1.5 hr nap).  The doctor said everything was healthy and that separation anxiety made sense as the issue.

So I am going to work with that, and try and keep to the wake times that I think she needs, mainly 3.5 hour morning, 4 hours afternoon, but trying to limit the 2nd nap to 4:00 pm.  I think we still need to hold off on going to 1 nap yet since she didn't handle the 4.5 hours wake time well this morning.  I do think SA and molars have something to do with it.  She didn't quite have these problems with the late first nap on our trip.  But that only happened once.

Thanks,
Jasmine

[deckchariot]

let me know how you get on!  There's a good thread on SA here:  http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=84719.0  that may have some good tips for you.  Or this one:  http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=80822.0

Let me know how you get on!

[jlmlyle]

Well I still haven't nailed the routine. I think I am going to do a set morning nap of 10:15 for a while (though she has been falling asleep at 10:35-40ish) and move it back to 10, if I don't get some improvement after a week.  And wake after 30 minutes.  The last few days she cried a bit going down in the morning.  And in the afternoon, which we were doing at about 2:20/30 she would cry, but immediately fall asleep for about 10 minutes, wake up cry and fuss, and go back down after a bit of squirming to finish her nap to a total of about 1.5 hrs. I think the 2nd scenario is overtired as is the first (possibly)

So as for the crying/SA with naps, I went to the pediatrician and all is well health wise.  So I am comforting her until she calms down.  Leaving and then she cries after I close the door, but it is mostly just a quick outburst and lasts a minute if that.  And then she settles down and sleeps eventually.  She is not sitting upright this whole time, but rolling around laying down.  So that's part of why I think this is also some routine and OT issues.  It isn't severe, yet, but I am worried about that.

Hopefully we'll get back on track somewhat, but the 2-1 switch is all about not being on track, right? 

Thanks,
Jasmine

[deckchariot]

it definitely sounds OT  - she's trying to sleep, but is so tired, she can't quite get there.  With SA, she'd almost definitely be up and lunging after you.  And yep, the 2 to 1 switch is all about flexibility