Any way to get out of 2to1 OT mess?

[Straffles]

Hi Anna. I can't get a UT nap or an APOP so that's why the short am, long pm wont work for us.

Yes, I definitely need more info about set naps. How can it work if one day you're doing say 4H R at, then next 6 etc??

[anna*]

So even if he has 30 mins in the am he won't be tired enough for a pm nap? What if you did the pm nap later so he had like 4hrs A? Then that might even push BT later too. How long A would he need after a 30 mins catnap at 10am? Has he always been low sleep needs? Seems to me you've got two options which are either to try the short am/long pm naps for a while, or make the jump to 1 nap and accept that he's going to be pretty much overtired for the next few months.

My son wasn't able to consistently handle one nap until he was 15 months old and that seems fairly common, unless your LO is low sleep needs of course. I'm not going to lie it was annoying, from 14-15 months we were doing crazy short am naps like 10 mins in the car, but then the A time afterwards was shorter, and then at 15 months I pretty much knew he could handle 1 nap. My daughter went to 1 nap at 13 months but she has always tacked on at night so she can do it.

With set naps you just stick with it, and the idea is that their internal clock adjusts so that WU becomes more consistent. Like, if they know that their am nap isn't going to be until 10am come what may, their body will start to have them wake up later because they know there's not going to be a chance for an early nap for some more sleep. It's the same principle as pushing the A time for EW. I went to set naps at 8 months with my son because working with A times, naps were just all over the place and it was stressing me out to not know when he would be napping. It also helped me to be less hung up on it, I knew when nap times were and if he short napped then oh well too bad. I would do a 30 mins early bedtime if necessary.

[jessmum46]

Here to hold your hand if you decide to go for a set nap time Straffles - as you know I've been trying it with J.  I won't lie - it isn't perfect and she ends up OT quite a lot of the time, but it's certainly no worse than messing around with A times.  Plus it means I know when nap time is which is somewhat liberating!  If I was in your position with the early wake ups I think I'd fix the nap at 11am and then work from there.  I put J down up to 15 mins early if she woke really early or seems very tired, otherwise I try to stick to it as best I can.

[Aishi]

Just adding to the hugs straffles. Agree with pp that whatever route you go by you need to stick with it for a week at least to give lo time to adjust.

I've been struggling with both Los. I've preserve red with short am and long pm this week and she will nap now after only 3h15min am a and I cap nap at 20 min. I'm now doing 3h20min pm at and letting her nap as long as she wants and only capping to keep to a 12-13h day...

Re set naps. I started that with ds this week cos he's been EW at 4-5 for last two months and I decided to try set nap at 1.30 which meant that his a time varied between 8-6hrs depending on wu. He's now consistently napping between 1.15-1.30 regardless of wu and I let him nap as long as he wants up till 3pm in order to have 8 pm BT. So basically just giving an example of both routes you can take that will work as long as you're consistent

Good luck hon x

[Straffles]

Thought you might like to know about our magical day today. Challenging and exhausting. But magical.

We went out on our boat this morning. Benji loved it (although Mummy was seasick!).

Got him back on dry land at 10.30, drove home for nap at 11.30. Benji started crying. I mean really crying. Or that's what I thought. Anyway, after 5 mins of this crying - yelling, screaming, wailing - he fell asleep in the car. This was after 3HR 50AT from WU (although I'd had him on the boob since 6.05 am, didn't actually get up til 7am). Oh my oh my. So, Benji is not someone who will just drop off. He will scream his way there. Well, actually, he will give a Benji mantra cry. It just SOUNDS like screaming!

Thanks to the guidance of an amazingly compassionate and knowledgeable friend, I woke Benji gently after 30 minutes. PUt him down for a nap after 2.5 hours (needed a boobie APOP). HE slept for 1HR 45MINS.

Just gone to sleep for the night at 7.40pm, so almost 4HRS since WU. He seemed very very tired this last two hours (in that classic baby tired way that Benji NEVER shows!), and the day has been really long, so I don't know what's about to happen. I'm just going to try to relax. Today feels like it has been at least 24 hours long.

Now, all I'm wondering is WHEN or IF I should try to use this short am, long pm again. He dropped off in the car - because of being out on the ocean? Today was our LATEST WU for weeks...any thoughts?

[anna*]

Is try it every day for a week! Maybe some activity and lots of fresh air in the first A? Swimming?

[Straffles]

Thanks Anna.

Just re-reading your earlier suggestions. I ALWAYS treat early wakings as night wakings and do a night feed. We have only had STTN 5 times in Benji's life, so I am used to doing nfs. These days it's two or three...

It's just that he doesn't always settle these days if he's had anaything near 11hours sleep already. He used to

Not sure about trying the short am long pm again. Maybe I'll drive in the car at the same time just to see...

[anna*]

Why the hesitation?

[Straffles]

Don't think I can answer that succinctly Anna. I've been suffering pretty badly with anxiety focused on sleep and naps for some time

[anna*]

(((Hugs)))

[Straffles]

We got another 2 nap day under the guidnace of my brilliant friend. But she's busy and back to work tomorrow.

Again, benji started screaming in the car. Didn't fall asleep though so I brought him home and boobed him to sleep for CN.

Now I don't know which times to use or how you work this out. What if the day starts at 5.30, what do people do to get to a decent bedtime? Last two days I've gone with putting Benj to AM CN when he screams then 2.5hours to pm nap. Nap has been around 1HR 40 then 4hr to bt.

What to do to actually SET that am CN rather than waiting for him to scream and what to do if he won't take it?

[jessmum46]

What have your two nap day EASYs looked like?

The only way to 'set' a nap is to offer it at the same time/A time every day and stick to it for at least a week, perhaps more.  However it may be that Benji doesn't need two naps every day, in which case you have two 'set' routines - a one nap routine for days with a good night/good WU or CN refused, and a two nap routine for tired days.  Would that help you to have that as a plan?  So every day wouldn't be the same but you'd have plan A and plan B depending on circumstances?

[Straffles]

Well he's obviously exhausted and we're trying to get him to catch up so it looks like 2 nap days on the cards atm. But they're not predictable times you see Katherine, because he's been so OT. The first one nap day started from a 7am WU! that's when he started screaming in the car...

Guess I'm just so scared of the 5.30WU since we had 6.15 today after a 7.40BT, so....if 5.30 start to day, can you really do a nap at 8.30?? and still make it to BT no earlier than 6? And what if yo can't get him to settle at CN time (my apop is boob which is fine, but if he's not ready, it won't work, so do I end up boobing and putting down all morning long??)

Well he's obviously exhausted and we're trying to get him to catch up so it looks like 2 nap days on the cards atm. But they're not predictable times you see Katherine, because he's been so OT.

Guess I'm just so scared of the 5.30WU since we had 6.15 today after a 7.40BT, so....if 5.30 start to day, can you really do a nap at 8.30?? and still make it to BT no earlier than 6?

This is the EASy for the last two days:


YESTERDAY
6.05 am – BF in bed and put down til
WU   7.01am
A   3HR 50 (screaming from 3HR 45)
S   30 MINS 10.50 – 11.20 (in car, capped)
A   2HR 30
S   1HR 45 from 1.50 (bf to sleep by 2.00) – 3.45
A   3HR 55 – BT 7.40pm
NWs:    9pm (bf) – 2.30am (bf) – 5.30am (bf)

TODAY
6.16    awake and happy
WU   6.30am
A   3HR 15 (screaming from 2HR 50)
S   30 MINS (9.45 – 10.15 capped)
A   2HR 30 (6 mins to settle)
S   1HR 40 from 12.51 – 2.31
A   4HR 09 – BT 6.39pm   
NWs   7.05 (bf) -

[anna*]

At this age I wouldn't do an 8.30am nap no matter how early he wakes up. It just reinforces that early start to the day. Agree with pp, I think you just set the nap time at about 9.30 (so 3.5hrs from a 6am WU). It doesn't matter if it's an OT nap since you're going to cap it anyway. If he won't take the nap, you put him down at 11 or 11.30 and have a one nap day and yes you'll have to do an EBT in that case.

I need to ask about independent sleep - is he going down independently for his main nap and at bedtime? Do you always settle with a BF when he wakes in the night?

[anna*]

How's it going?