Any way to get out of 2to1 OT mess?

[Straffles]

Hi all,

11MO is getting OT on the 2 to 1.

He won't take a CN. He's been on 1 nap a day for 6 weeks or so on 4.5HR AT.

In the last week, I have had to re-settle all his naps with some successful, others not.

The current mess started out with a 1HR 25 nap, no CN. NExt day 1HR 20 with no CN. I couldn't re-settle the naps, so could be UT. He weathered the nights okay. Since then, all re-settled naps, some re-settled twice and up to 3HRS long. I thought possibly the 1HR 20s could have been a need for longer AM AT. But because he got so overtired on short naps, I haven't really been able to experiment with changes in ATs and not sure I want to!

Then, suddenly, waking for the day at 5.15am. Today 5.25am. 11hours after bedtime exactly. So not officially an EW but unable to settle him. I managed to keep him quiet until 6.20am today and started the day from there. Meant nap ended before 1pm. Again, I thought maybe an increase in AT to BT required? But, again, he's got such accumulated OT, I don't want to experiment if I can help it.

Any EBTs I've done before 6pm have been unsuccessful with waking before 6am again. So he's been asleep since 6.05 tonight - a 4HR 50 to BT on a nap less than 2 hrs.

We have NWs, early ones and all over the place too, but I am happy to cope with those if I can re-settle. Sometimes they are screaming ones for an hour or more but that may be because of teething.

Is there any way to get out of the starting for the day before 6/6.30am pattern or should I just accept that our days may begin at 5/5.30?

If they do, how do I manage the day if he won't CN? Today, I tried to APOP a CN in the car, as was advised here that this may work during 2 to 1 even though it hasn't before. He was definitely really tired, glazed and yawning, so I took the opportunity and he actually was calm in the car for about ten mins (normally finds it all very exciting). But no sleep.

So really, I don't think I can get two naps out of him. My last resort another day might be to offer breast...

So, morning starts are getting earlier and unresettlable. So, just thinking how do I organise my day if it is starting early? I think I need to accept what is happening - just not sure how to handle it...

Any suggestions please?

[anna*]

(((hugs)))

I would for sure AP a nap on the boob if you can get one that way.

Have you tried a shorter morning A time? 4.5 hrs seems so long to me, my daughter is nearly 15 months old and that is the same A time. At a 5am wake up, can you rush in before he's fully awake and BF him quickly and bung him back in the cot like a night feed? I know you prob don't want to go back to NFs but after my son (who was a chronic and awful EWer for the longest time and nearly destroyed me) I have a morbid fear of EWs and will do anything to avoid them - I'd rather keep my girl in the habit of sleeping til 7, even if it means doing NFs that she 'should' have grown out of.

Or another alternative would be to cap the morning nap at 30mins, and then give him a 'proper' nap a couple of hours later, so it would go something like

5.30am awake
9.30am catnap 30 mins
10am awake
12pm nap
1.30-2pm awake
6.30pm asleep

With my son I always did the catnap in the morning because like your boy if he had a long nap in the morning he simply would not take a pm nap. We kept the morning catnap/longer pm nap combo until he was 15 months. Another benefit is that even if you don't get a good long pm nap, at least you are that bit closer to bedtime, yk?

Hope something here is helpful, maybe?

[scruffymax]

Much shorter A times!  (yes me again)  Gee Straffles you've been in this particular kind of hell for such a long time now.  I really feel for you and I know it's really stressful and anxiety-inducing.  I really, really think you need to leave Benji with someone and get a break for at least a couple of hours, regularly.  Turn the phone off while you're out.  I know he needs you but I think you'd be surprised at how well he would go.  What is the worst that could happen?  He's already chronically OT and you're OT and pulling your hair out, if he didn't sleep or only short napped it would be no worse than what is already happening.

Back to your more specific question about how to get him out of the OT mess, I would seriously try a much shorter first A time eg 3 hrs or even less, and provided he did sleep that would give time in the day for a second nap.  What is the worst that could happen??  And yes I would APOP if needed.  When they're OT, the only important thing is making sure they sleep, in whatever way you can get it.

I really wish you the best of luck.  I really really hope you try to shorten his A times.  It saddens me that you are still having such a hard time.  I really hope this post doesn't come across sounding bad - I just really want things to improve for you and your family.

[Aishi]

(((Hugs))) hon. Agree with pp. think I've mentioned it before too but fwiw I would def shorten your a times too. B is so OT now I don't think you'll get worse naps. i would also consider short am long pm route- as u know ive been terrified of tryig that as am has always been a long nap for us...but had no choice this am since dd was up by 5.50 and we had to go out at 9.30 so i did a 20min CN and am currently holding my breath as shes 1hr into pm nap...atleast you'll know you've tried if u do give it a go ...

[jessmum46]

Straffles I just thought of another suggestion I saw on the toddler sleep board somewhere.  I'll see if I can dig out the thread later but the gist was, LO got into an OT mess with the 2-1 so mum set strict rules.  Nap was 4h after wakeup.  BT was 4h after wakeup from nap, 4h15 if a super long nap.  This meant LO was sometimes going to bed at 4.30pm but they stuck with it to get her over the OT.  Once they started getting MOTN cot parties, they slowly increased A times again. 

Have also seen as a suggestion to do a one off super duper crazy early BT of 4/4.30pm.  Even if LO sleeps for 12h, it will be the MOTN and hopefully their body clock saying night time will allow for a resettle and a monster long nights sleep. 

Both suggestions a bit more radical though than just reducing A times a bit or trying short am long pm

[Straffles]

Thank you everyone.

Scruffymax - I tried getting Benji to take a nap at 3HRs in the AM but he totally refused.

Benji doesn't have cot parties, he just screams when UT. He will not settle if he is UT with breast or any other APOP as I have tried recently. He is simply wide awake, whether it's early morning or MOTN.

I can see how the AM CN could work and sounds sooo good. But without him taking a UT nap I can't see how to make the times work. I saw Jessmum's other thread about a 30min CN needing a 3/3.5 AT to longer pm and if Benji can't take a UT am nap I can't see how there are enough hours in the day.

[Straffles]

Now DP is telling me I am just trying to get Benji to sleep more than he needs i.e. that's why he's doing shorter naps and shorter nights.

Says, why is everyone else (apart from those on this forum) just putting baby down at 7 whatever. Why does noone else know what we know about OT etc.

I wish he were rght. But he's not, is he?

We just had a 1HR 40 nap ending well before 1pm. Woke happy and chatting. Wide awake, happy and chatting. So that's UT right? After a 5.45am wake up (kept him snoozing on the boob til 6.30).??

[TracyP21]

(((Hugs))) That could also be a restorative nap for him - waking up refreshed, chatty etc.
Straffles, when I cut back ATs to 2hr40 (R was 10 months old) when we were dealing with major OT it took about three days to see positive results come through.  R was so used to being OT he refused earlier naps even though he was basically OT from WU in the morning. He was also too "wired" all the time and it took time to reset his body clock.  When he started to sleep then I was able to push ATs again.
Is he moving much - crawling/walking?  If he is then he could need shorter ATs as he is burning a lot of energy.

Now DP is telling me I am just trying to get Benji to sleep more than he needs i.e. that's why he's doing shorter naps and shorter nights.

Says, why is everyone else (apart from those on this forum) just putting baby down at 7 whatever. Why does noone else know what we know about OT etc.

I think my DH thinks I am mad half the time lol but he has started to see that it makes sense and has started to talk BW lingo as well lol.

You need to get some "Y" time back in your life.  Use any friends/family you have around you and get some time away. 

[anna*]

If you're expecting the nap to be short, it doesn't matter if its UT?

[Straffles]

I just don't think I have the confidence to mess with any of this atm. The thought of just one capped 20min CN in a whole day....there are so many suggestions about the ATs for a short am long pm, we could spend the whole day trying to settle him, yk?

Just spent an hour getting a screaming Benji to sleep. Teeth are in the mix and have been for weeks now, so I daren't mess with anything until that comes right, though no signs of cutting.

you are all so wonderfully helpful. I just must accept the way things are right now, I guess. That's all.

[jessmum46]

(((Hugs))) honey you have to do what feels right for you. If changing things is going to cause you more stress than the status quo then you don't have to change a thing.  But I totally agree with trying to get some time out for you, even if its just an hour for a long bath or a coffee xx

[Straffles]

Katherine, he just woke again screaming and it took 40mins to get him to settle. Could it go on all night? Not sure how to handle tomorrow...

he's in a right state

you're right i need Suzy time....it's hard to take even though i could - just can't let go of the control. Got DP home most of the time helping me, but somehow it's not really helping, just stressing us both out. I feel if I leave him, it will all go wrong...shame DP is working tonight though ugh

[TracyP21]

Agree with Katherine, do what you feel comfortable with to weather this OT storm.  But you absolutely need to have some time out, even for half an hour, a day.  Benji will be picking up on your stress and could well be responding to that as well.  Also if you are not sleeping/eating well that can sometimes affect your milk supply.  Why don't you start off with small "Y" times - a walk around the block, down to the shop for milk etc and then build it up. 
I found sometimes when I went out Reuben was actually calmer with my DH!  Your DP could also be feeling pretty helpless and not sure how to help but this could be a way he could do it - if you let him.
More (((hugs))) and hoping there are no bush fires near you.

[Straffles]

Thank you all so much for your support.

I'm spending a lot of time as the human dummy atm. I just try to keep him calm and quiet so that he is more rested if naps are short or WUs early. This morning he was on me for over an hour just so we could start the day at 6.30 and have a decent chance at a nap. In fact, looking at my records, nights are around 11hours (not really a bad thing in principle!) and WUs between 5.15 and 5.30 but I simply cannot start day before 6.30 or AT to BT would be huge. EBT doesn't appear to make a difference Just waiting for a magical CU.

Thinking of going for set nap and getting some advice there -do yo have any? trying to get my head around it tbh.

Anyway, your support means SO MUCH to me, thank you all.

[anna*]

I think you could try set naps - the only thing is to review it every so often, so that if for example WU moves later or earlier consistently you can adjust things in line. yk? So not just carry on blindly. That said though, you do need to be consistent for it to work so I'd commit to a fully week before assessing what is/isn't working.

Without knowing too much about the background here IIWY I'd do an am nap for 45 mins at 10am, then a pm nap at say 1 or 1.30pm. I know we're sometimes in the position of having too much information here - like you look at someone elses EASY and they always need X amount of A time after a short nap or whatever - but really all you can do is try it out and see what happens. Of course if you KNOW he will go down easily at 9.30am, and you KNOW he will need 3hrs A after a 30 mins nap, you can adjust accordingly but as your thread title says, this is an OT mess so at least for now we have to assume OT and the objective has to be to get more sleep?

(((hugs))) I also agree with the pps. If things are all going t!ts up anyway, take the Y time. Think of it as an exercise in letting go. We can't force these pesky kids to sleep, as much as we would like to we can't control their routines, all we can do is give them the opportunity.