dreamfeeding vs. night-time feeds - baby is not sleeping

[saritakwade]

Hi there - my LO is 23 weeks, and we have been doing the dreamfeed since late December.
She is now primarily bottlefed due to my lack of milk supply. I still pump a few oz a day for daytime bottles.

DF started when she was 3.5 months from a 9pm feed, and then she began sleeping through that, and I began giving her the dreamfeed between 10-11pm. She always has wake-ups, so it seems as though the DF is disrupting her somehow, and so I am wondering how to stop, and what the alternatives may be. She usually goes to bed between 6:30 and 7pm, and wakes up 45 min. later. Sometimes goes back to sleep and wakes up once more and then she sleeps from approx 9pm until anytime between 11:30 and 2pm. She is not hungry at these wake-ups.

The wake-ups are unpredictable, usually anywhere from 1 to 2, to 3 hours after the DF. She resettles fairly quickly. She doesn't even usually burp...however I do find her to be gassy (tummy growling/farts) at the next feed which is usually around 3:30 or 4. Sometimes

So I am wondering whether to feed her at a wake-up rather than DF. However, am I interfering with her night cycles if I feed her at midnight if she wakes up, or 1am?

She just went through a phase of not eating enough during the day, and so I scaled back the amounts of milk that she was getting at DF and 3:30-ish to 4 oz each time and she began eating more during the day. And then she started to eat quite a bit more overall and so I think she's going through a growth spurt. Then she started waking up earlier to be fed 2:30 or 3am, and at 6ish in the morning, when before she was sleeping til 7:30am.

Looking forward to hearing your ideas- I know this crosses over into sleep - so hope I have posted in the right place - it feels like the feeding is determining the sleep issues.

Thank you so much - really hoping to see us both sleep longer at night !
Sarah

[*Kara*]

I didn't DF mine at all... just gave her a full feed right before bedtime then fed when she woke up to eat.  So long as it has been 4 hrs since her last feed, I would assume hunger, otherwise resettle her in another way.

That said, the wake ups so soon after going to bed are making me think she might be OT at bedtime -how does her day look in terms of EAS?

[saritakwade]

Hi! Thanks for writing - last night I didn't dreamfeed her, and she woke & resettled at 11:30, 12:50 and I fed her and then she slept til 7:30 !
A very nice change! I heard her resettle herself a few times around 4am. Tonight she woke up at 10pm but was happy to go back to sleep.

She's 23 weeks now, and here is a current EASY: she can only handle a little A time in the first morning...otherwise very cranky & hard to put down...we are trying to do 2-2.25 h A for the rest of the day (but I think she fell asleep in a carrier for an early catnap on this day)

   6:15 wake-up
E 7am eat
A
S 8:00 - 8:35, light sleep til 9:00

E 10:50
A
S 11:30-12:15, back down 12:20 -1:50

E 3pm
A
S 3:30-3:50

E 5:30
A
S 6:25

wake-ups 6:55pm, 7:45pm, DF 10:30, wake-ups 11:30pm, 2am, 3:30 for feed, 6:20am
I have stopped DF now....

Thanks for your input!

[*Kara*]

Having a quick look, I think she is UT for that first nap (I would shoot for a 2 hr A time to keep it on the lower end for her age).  This is causing a shorter nap that is not at all restorative, meaning she can't do a full A time before her next nap... hence the wakeup mid-nap... also, the PM CN really is only to get them through the bedtime routine, it's not meant to have a full A time after it.  She builds OT throughout the day and then has pre-midnight wake ups after being put to bed (classic OT sign).

I would try to have her day more like this (using your 615am wakeup)

Wake 615am
Nap 1: 815-1015am
Nap 2: 1230-230pm
CN: 445-515pm
BT 7pm

** If she naps less than 90 mins, you need to reduce the next A time back to 1 hr 45 mins to keep OT at bay.  If she naps less than one hour, I would cut down to 1 hr 30-40.

** Yay for the good night!  DFing doesn't work for all babies, maybe she is one of them!

What do you think?

[saritakwade]

hi , thanks so much - i think this is a critical piece. She is chronically OT or UT and it is really hard to hit her windows.

I was giving her 2 hours between naps no matter the length of the nap, and so that must be just adding to her OT.

Last night, she went down around 7pm, woke at 7:40 and then slept til 3am. This was really great...then she had a really hard time getting back to sleep after feeding - up til 5am...then we woke her at 7am. I wonder if I actually jumped the gun by feeding, maybe I should have tried to resettle her because she was super sleepy when she woke up...wasn't actually really hungry crying...so that's something to check for another night.

I'm trying to figure out how much sleep she needs, because so often if she sleeps for 2 hours in the morning, then she has short naps in the afternoon and then we seem to be OT by bedtime. Today my husband put her down at 9:10, she slept for one hour and then he put her back to sleep (this took 10 min) and she slept til 11:10. We tried to put her down for 1:10, and 1:25 and she fought it and wasn't sleepy, blew raspberries in the crib and finally fell asleep on him around 2pm. So I am thinking that perhaps she only needs the one hour in the morning so that she will be sleepy for her afternoon nap. (?)

 We are trying to get her to fall asleep on her own, so I really don't want to be putting her to sleep on my shoulder...yet feel as though I need to do that to fight OT for the end of the day....arggghgh it is so confusing...whenever we seem to hit one part of the day right, we don't get the other parts. But, it's all a work in progress.

Thanks so much for your insight! we'll keep trying!

[saritakwade]

Hey!
I have another quick question.
She usually sleeps til 7am, (she was having some early am wake-ups, but this is the way it usually goes, and this is where we are running into problems at the end of the day - so if I use your suggestion with her 7am wake-up...

7am wake-up

nap 1 - 9-11

nap 2 1:15-3:15

CN ? do I still do a CN? on this schedule, it would be at 5:30...which is too late I think. Sometimes if she has a later afternoon nap, we skip the catnap, and are putting her down to sleep between 6-6:30pm, because otherwise when we give her a catnap later in the day, she has a really hard time going down to bed.

Thanks again for info about the fact that it isn't supposed to be a full window after catnap - didn't know that, guess i need to reread my book again.
Thanks!!!

[*Kara*]

You could try to resettle her if she wakes during the night, but I would be surprised if she only slept a short time and woke again looking to eat.  That said, I wouldn't go to her unless she does start to cry/fuss.

CN ? do I still do a CN? on this schedule, it would be at 5:30...which is too late I think. Sometimes if she has a later afternoon nap, we skip the catnap, and are putting her down to sleep between 6-6:30pm, because otherwise when we give her a catnap later in the day, she has a really hard time going down to bed.

If she goes down okay at 6/630pm without the catnap, I would do that.  Seems that you might be in the start of the 3-2 transition   That cat nap gets too late in the day to serve much purpose!

Here is a link for support from other moms in the same place with the 3-2...
Anyone want to talk about the 3-2 Nap transition? Part 2