How much should I shorten A time by after OT night?

[mothergoose]

Hi guys,
Really hoping to get some help with sleep issue that has been dragging on for weeks now. Have 23 month old who has got into what seems to be a really bad OT loop which started after illness but I seem to be perpetuating it by not getting his nap/BT right...at minute our days are like this:
WU 5:30
naptime 11:30 - 1pm -never sleeps longer than 1.5hrs usually 1hr 20?!!
BT - 6 but sometimes not asleep until 7:30 (trying early to beat OT but not working as yet!!)

Because he is waking up so early I cannot seem to fix his OT by early bedtime - used to be able to put in so he would be asleep 12hrs from WU but this would leave ridiculous BT! So trying to get him to take a longer nap in hope this will help him last to a more normal bedtime...He just will not sleep longer than 1hr 30. He tends to wake crying at first but then happy...he tends to be very happy and very hard to read in terms of sleep cues. He is a really alert baby and when he wakes he absolutely refuses to go back to sleep...we have had mornings start at 3:45/4 when this was at its worst!

So I'm not sure if first A time is too short or too long? I have everything from 5hr - 6.5hrs A  but still getting this really short nap. What A would be appropriate after night sleep of only 10hrs? Any suggestions very welcome. I have a last day off with him tomorrow to try to get this fixed before he is nursery again weds...no chance of adjusting nap when in daycare so if we start in OT loop tends to stay that way all week.

Thanks!!

[HenaV]

Hi!

This isn't for everyone but it used to work for us when R was OT and all else failed:

Car nap: 9.30 (capped 20m)
Nap: 2h after WU From car nap (uncapped)
BT: 13h day (if nap 2h or longer)
      12-12.5h day if nap 1.5h or under

Hth

Hena

[jessmum46]

Just offering a different perspective (hope that's ok Hena ) There's no way my LO would have taken two naps at that age.....and in fact if we had longer than a 1h30 nap it affected BT and nights!  So I personally wouldn't consider it a short nap for this age, unless your LO is HSN.  What makes you think he is OT if he's generally happy? 

I would probably go for a set nap time and push it later (we were at more like a 1/1.30pm nap at this age, capped at 1.5h with 7pm BT) and hope the morning WUs get later to compensate.

[mothergoose]

Thanks both for your replies....
Yes my little boy will usually refuse two naps so think this rules first option out  I was not sure myself at first Jessmum if he was ot/ut but his nights have been getting shorter and shorter so if he was not OT at the start of this nightmare he definitely seems to be now...
this morning we had WU at 4am after in bed for 6:30 asleep 7:30. He eventually went back to sleep after an hour but then only slept one more hr so up at 6am (9 hours night sleep in total). He seemed very dozy all morning so tried to hold him off but ended up putting him in at 10:30...asleep 11....will see what time he wakes.

Would you still push nap out to 1 and BT to 7 even if wake up at 5:30 Jessmum? I would love to have set nap/BT actually as this is driving me mental at the minute!! Do you agree that the 9/10 hr nights and 1.5hr naps are due to over tiredness or am I getting this wrong. I say he is generally happy but he is like that anyway whether sleep deprived or not he never yawns/rubs eyes and tends to get more and more giggly/hyper the more tired he becomes...makes things very hard to work out!

Thanks for the support

[jessmum46]

It may have started out as UT or something developmental, but I'd agree he's probably getting OT now if nights are that short.  I found set naps great after 12 months and basically ignored A times from then on - so much less stressful!!  Many people do find that setting the nap works better for toddlers, especially as they get older. 

I wouldn't jump to 1pm all at once as I think that will be tough from such an early start.  But pick a time you think he could reasonably manage right now, say 12pm with 6pm BT.  Put down 15 mins early for nap or 30 mins early for BT if struggling, but no earlier.  Then gradually nudge the nap 15 mins later every few days until you get to a place where things seem to have settled ie settles well for nap and BT and getting a good amount of sleep.  There's a sticky on set naps at the top of the board too

[mothergoose]

Yes that sounds like a good idea...think I need to fix this mess first and get semi-reasonable wake time before I can start though as he does tend to be very sensitive to OT so really worried about perpetuating this loop....May need to run things by you for a few days until I am out of this trap if thats ok...its been a very sleep-deprived few weeks and don't trust my brain at present!!
So today was (after BT of 7:30):

WU 4am, BTS 5-6, WU and get up 6am
nap 11am-1:10pm (miracle nap!)
BT - put in at 5:30 - asleep at 6:15pm

I went for an early bedtime on side of caution as he has been so sleep-deprived recently don't think the two-hr nap will have fixed it. Plus he woke up crying from nap. May have been too early though  will see tomorrow.

In your experience do babies grow out of getting so overtired? I really hope they do!

[mothergoose]

Today had wake up at 5:30 so was great...first time he has slept more than 9/10 hrs at night in a long time! So today he has nursery which is set nap at 12:30 and I am planning to aim for BT of 6:15 to hopefully be asleep by 6:30...Do I need to stick quite strictly to 13hr day still do you think even while using set naps/bedtime?

[jessmum46]

I would stick to set times as much as you possibly can.  But for exceptional circumstances ie a super EW or a refused nap, I sometimes deviated and threw in a one-off extra EBT ie an hour earlier than normal.