Author Topic: 3 weeks into EASY and still struggling  (Read 1598 times)

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Offline Walkernew

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3 weeks into EASY and still struggling
« on: June 18, 2016, 02:18:24 am »
I'm new to the Baby Whisperer, and I'm a huge believer in what I read in Tracy's book, but struggling with the application.

My baby is 7 mos old, breastfed. I was feeding on demand previously. Since birth, he never really slept that much during the day - not that he wasn't tired, but maybe he didn't know how to go to sleep. At 5 or 6 weeks, we started the eat-play-sleep routine upon friend's recommendation of Babywise. But I didn't really have a schedule, it just followed that pattern all day. At 7 or 8 weeks, we started using a swing during the day to try to get him to nap. He finally napped, and was sleeping a lot during the day. We read not to keep him up more than 1 hr at a time, so all day long we would keep putting him in the swing after each hour of waketime. When we started that, he immediately started sleeping better at night. He would go to bed at 7/7:30, sleep until 2 or 3 or 4, nurse, and then about every 40-60 min from then on, he would wake up and eat, until I got up for good at 7 am. We also would rock him a lot for naps and bedtime, and sing or play music, and stroke his face. It has gotten continuously harder to keep him asleep at night and to enforce naps. I realized all along that I was using some techniques that many people frown on, but I was desperate for some quiet time during the day and a little sleep at night. (I'm pretty tired by nature, need about 11 hours myself. This is our first baby too.)

At 3 mos I went back to work 3 days a week. Two of the days he stays with my mom, and I nurse on my lunch hour. The other day he is with my mother in law who lives next door (20 min away from my job location). They followed the same routine with him. He drank from a bottle of my milk all day, and nursed great when with me. He was born in November, and by the time daylight savings switch came around, I tried gradually adjusting his to-bed and wakeup times, but despite this, he coincidentally started getting up 1 hr earlier, instead of later. Then at 4 mos, he had 2 colds back to back that had him really congested, and it was rough sleeping at night for him. He also started teething really bad at this time. From both of these, he night sleep just got way off track. He no longer slept a good chunk at the beginning, but started waking up all night long. Some nights he woke up every 15 min the whole night! I tried soothing him, but nothing helped, and I was so tired, so I just kept nursing him. (He has always slept in a bassinet next to my side of the bed.) But it was just endless! I even tried nursing laying down, bringing him into our bed with us - but he just cried and kicked around. After a month of that every single night, he started getting up at 4:30 or 5 am and was done for the night, no matter what I did. Then of course he was cranky and over tired all day.

He is a very sweet and smiley baby, but seems to be very sensitive. I think he would have been pretty easy to train early on if I had started out properly, instead of doing everything wrong that you can do!

So several weeks ago, I started seriously looking at sleep training programs. I knew I couldn't do cry it out, because he doesn't cry a lot unless something is really wrong. I get very frustrated by crying too, and I also was worried about traumatizing him. So I was really drawn to Tracy's philosophy. And 3 weeks ago I had 10 days in a row off work, to tackle this program with him.

It seemed like the first 3 or 4 days or so, he was very easy to calm, he never really had any bad spells. He did pretty good with naps, and the first several nights he slept 9 hrs with NO nursing! He woke up a lot but was quickly calmed and settled. Then he started getting more frustrated by the pickup putdowns, and would cry harder the more I worked at it during the night. He seemed to cry so much that I was worried he was hungry, so I decided to nurse once in the middle of the night. One thing I did change in this time frame- I am a frequent food grazer all day, and I really wanted to have him on a 3 hr schedule, and just keep him there, not move to 4 hr. So I was trying to make that work these first few days, which was when he wasn't nursing at night. But after 3 days, I had to come to grips with the fact that it wasn't going to work for naps if I insisted on 3 hr schedule. So I went to 4. He seemed fine during the day for feedings. Then I resumed my work schedule and tried to instruct the grandmas on the new program. They struggled with it of course, but tried to do it just like me. His night got worse and worse.

Now he wakes up every 2 hours or more, all night, and cries and kicks and fights me when I pick him up, and cries harder when I put him down. I know not to hold him if he struggles against me, but he didn't start that til about a week and a half or 2 weeks in.

This is the schedule I was trying to implement:

6:30 am wakeup and feed
8:30-10 or 10:30 nap
10:30 feed
12:30-2 or 2:30 nap
2:30 feed
4:00 or 5:00 catnap
6:00 feed
6:30 bath
7:00 feed
7:15 bedtime
9:30 dream feed (this is the latest I stay up at night)

He doesn't eat a lot at the 7 pm feed, but I was trying to tank him up a bit. He ate a lot at 9:30, although he was having trouble from 5-6:30 am, so I tried a 10:30 or 11 pm dream feed for a week. It didn't help the early morning at all, but now if I accidentally sleep through my 10:30 alarm, he wakes up now and wants to eat then. He also started waking up at 3 or 4 to eat. I was getting more and more frustrated because I had understood that he would go from the dreamfeed to the first morning feed without nursing - he is 7 mo old afterall, and about 20 lbs! So I kept trying the pu/pd, stayed faithful and determined. But is seemed to be working less and less. Then I started to worry that he cried so much, which Tracy said burns calories, and then they really may get hungry, and should be fed. Also, his worst spells of crying were at random times, not clockwork, which Tracy says is from hunger, not habit. So I thought I was supposed to feed him. So now he wants to eat every hour all night long, and I feel like all my blood sweat and tears have brought me back to square one. So I decided a couple night ago, ok, maybe he isn't going to sleep thru the night yet, but at least I can make him wait at least 4 hrs between night feeds, since he doesn't eat more than that during the day. So I feed him at 6 & 7 pm, then at 10:30 pm, 2 am, and hope he waits til 6:30 am. Even that is too many in my opinion, since he was sleeping 6-8 in one chunk when he was 2 mos old! But despite allowing for these times, he still wakes up at midnight, and 4 am, crying and crying like I haven't fed him in days. I don't feed him between the 10:30 and 2:00 feeds, but I have been giving in at 4 am and usually feeding at 4:30 or 5 after trying to settle him for a long time. Sometimes he sleeps til 6:15, at which point I give up and get up for the day and feed him, but other times he wakes up at 5:15 and 5:30, and 6:00...

I'm sooooooo frustrated!!!! I know my technique isn't perfect, and I have altered things a bit on him, but I'm just trying to have some structure and some expectation for him, but not be too harsh or too high of expectations. I believe in the training Tracy promotes, I just can't seem to get it right. Is it normal to go on this long? Have I messed it up by feeding in the night? (By the way, he does a full feed at 10:30, 2, and the 4:30/5, but not interested by 6:30.) Should I expect him to go from 9:30 or 10:30 pm til 6:30 am since he did it the first 3 nights of training? Also, he doesn't always seem to eat a long time during the day feeds, but I'm not sure if he is just so efficient and fast bc he is 7 mos old, or if he is doing that because he is planning to eat all night long?

I haven't started him on solids yet, prob will in a month or so. He is thriving on my milk, and I have an excellent diet, so I'm not rushing the solids.

I work Mondays, then 2 days I am home with him, then Thurs and Fri I work, home on weekend, so it is a little disruptive, but I try to get him up and put him to bed the same times everyday.

I really am willing to try anything, and I have the willpower to stick to it - I'm just confused about what I'm supposed to be doing and what I'm missing the mark on. Please help!!!!???? Thankyou!

Offline Walkernew

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Re: 3 weeks into EASY and still struggling
« Reply #1 on: June 19, 2016, 19:46:12 pm »
His nights and days seem to be getting worse. Last night with his 7/7:15 bedtime, he woke up at 9, and 9:30, and then 10:15, at which point I just did the dreamfeed. Then woke up screaming and arching his back at midnight, and 1:00. I worked on it til 1:30 and decided to do the 2:00 feed at 1:30 instead. He slept til maybe 2:30 or 3:00 and started all over again. My husband took over for about an hour, which didn't really help because I could still hear him screaming and it still kept me up and stressed me out majorly. He continued to wake up and cry the rest of the night. I've had a horrific time getting him down for naps today too. He now brings his knees up to his chest when I pick him up, and pushes away, so I put him down and he gets louder and louder. It doesn't really seem to peak, it just goes on and on and on, til I feel like nothing is being gained. A couple times today I took him outside for a few minutes since it is warm and breezy and relaxing when he was flipping out over a nap, then came back in to try again. He finally went to sleep after fighting pretty hard. It's all messed up.

I feel like he is eating so often and so much at night that now I can't expect him to go all night without being hungry. So the next few days I'm going to try to feed him on schedule, but also extra times in between to ramp up his intake. I don't have high hopes because he just fusses and doesn't eat if he doesn't want to, but I don't know what else to do. Is this a bad idea? Tracy mentioned increasing calories during the day, but I was confused because in one part she mentions parents reverting back into 3 hr feed, but that was the wrong solution. In another part she says if you breastfeed and need more calories, just "pop them on" anytime you can grab them  -I'm not sure how to reconcile these, but I think he does need more calorie intake during day to get him off what he's getting in the night.

I just got my periods back this week, I'm extra tired from the last 3 weeks of trying to train him, and my husband has been working extra long hours this month with farming - so I am about out of my mind!! PLEASE HELP!!!! I won't give up if it will work eventually, but I am starting to feel like I've done something wrong and it will never be successful and I should give up. I don't know what to do. I know the old way didn't work, I saw a measure of success with Tracy's way, but the regression is so violent and I don't know when I will see progress again, or if I ever will.

Offline tathi-b

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Re: 3 weeks into EASY and still struggling
« Reply #2 on: June 20, 2016, 10:21:10 am »
Sorry it's taken a while for you to get a response.  It can feel really lonely when nothing seems to work but it's working already, it's just a process!

I was looking at his schedule and I get the impression that his awake times may be a little short.  At 7 months he could be ready to have more awake time in the day and more asleep time at night.  My little girl is 6.5 months and her schedule looks like this -

WU - 5:45/ 6am
Sit with mummy until 7am

E - 7am - milk
E - 8:30 - Breakfast
S - 9:30

A - 11am
E - 11am - milk
E - 12:30 - Food
S - 1:30

A - 3pm
E - 3pm - milk
E - 5pm - Dinner

5:30 - bath
6:15 - Milk
Story
Bed by 6:30/ 6:45

DF - 10:30

Do you think it could be time to extend his awake time during the day

You aren't doing anything wrong, we just need to find a solution that works for you! ;)

When I put my baby on a schedule I found that it worked best to feed her on the schedule, maybe a 4 hour EASY would work for you?  So if she was asleep at food times I would wake her up.  I know it sounds harsh but that was the only way I found to put her on the schedule... Maybe other mums have a different idea on how to start you off?  My assumption is that if he is fed at the same times everyday he knows what to expect.

Another thing to consider is that when they have growth spurts they get extra hungry and often unsettled in the night.  If your baby doesn't have reflux (some drink more to soothe the discomfort) he could just be growing.  I'd suggest carrying on with the schedule and feed him a little more during the day?

I really hope that things start getting easier!

xx



x
« Last Edit: June 20, 2016, 10:26:36 am by tathi-b »

Offline Jodes112

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Re: 3 weeks into EASY and still struggling
« Reply #3 on: June 20, 2016, 13:03:30 pm »
Hello!

I drfinatley agree that he needs More A time during the day and is ready to move to 2 naps one AM and one PM. The fact that he isnt getting enough A time during the day between naps will have a big part in his sleep at night.

At 7 months the average A between naps is 'around' 3-3.5 hours. Here's what you need to be aiming for:

Wu 6.30
Eat 7am

AM Nap 9.30-11am
Eat 11am

PM Nap 2-3.30
Eat 3.30 or on wake up (could possibly do a top up feed before nap seen as you are not yet on solids)

Eat 6.30
Bed 7pm

Or around those times.

You can start increasing his A time a little bit at a time (15 min increments) then hold for a few days and increase again. Or just jump to 3 hrs and see how you go - depends how well he can stay A and deal with possible OT to start with.

WRT the eat aspect, i wouldnt worry about timings as such rather to just fit round naps as best you can. Also, if you think he might be hungry it will cause no harm (and fill him up) to start him on some solid food (obviously thats your decision )

One last thing, is he teething? Sounds uncomfortable and grouchy with some of the things you have said. Have you tried medicating before bed?

Any questions just ask
« Last Edit: June 20, 2016, 13:11:56 pm by Jodes112 »
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Offline Walkernew

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Re: 3 weeks into EASY and still struggling
« Reply #4 on: June 20, 2016, 17:13:55 pm »
Thankyou for replies! Oh, I guess I misunderstood the timeline when I was reading Tracy's book - I didn't realize it was already time to increase his awake times. It's been hard for me to decipher this, because as he has never had great nights (and they have been MUCH worse for the last 5 months!) and his day naps haven't been ideal, then naturally he has been really tired and fussy during the time he is awake.....so then it seems like he can't stay awake too long. But I have been assuming that if he was sleeping more normally at night and then getting good naps, he would be able to tolerate the average waketimes better (cuz right now, about an hour in to waketime and he starts to get REALLY difficult to keep happy and I'm just counting down the minutes til next nap).

Am I thinking right that when I do adjust (I will today!) his times, he will be overtired and fussy for the first few days, and I shouldn't follow his sleepy cues at first, because otherwise I will put him down at 2 hrs-ish?

I actually decided to start solids today, I just didn't want to start too early so I could allow his digestive system a bit more time to mature. But I have been thinking that would probably help, so I'll see how it goes.

YES!! He is teething!! Terribly! It started at 4 mos, not just the drooling, but he started cramming his hands and anything he could grab into his mouth, and chewing chewing chewing. Then he would cry, rub his mouth. His gums look puffy and bumpy and whitish. No teeth have popped up yet, and it's driving us (and him) crazy! We try all the things like cold and chewy things, Hylands teething gel and tablets, clove oil diluted in a carrier oil - it all seems to help a tiny bit for a few minutes. I don't know that it keeps him up at night, but it may?? I'm a huge natural advocate instead of medicine, so I would rather do tylenol as a last resort, especially since it didn't seem like the reason he is waking up - but maybe I'm wrong, I am willing to try it.

So, Jodes112, if I follow that schedule you laid out, is this not nursing all night long, from 6:30 pm until 7 am the next day? Am I still supposed to be doing a dreamfeed since I haven't yet started solids?

I saw in someone else response on one of these boards that the recommendations on breastfeeding have been adjusted a bit since Tracy died. What are the recommendations now? Is it still good to feed every 4 hrs during the day, and then go the whole night with no feeds (like an 8 or 9 hr stretch until solids est)? Also, why do you have the first feed at 7 am if he wakes up at 6:30? If he has gone the whole night, isn't he going to be ready to eat at 6:30? Just wondering....And my baby right now does not ever take the 2 hr nap, he usually does about 1 hr or sometimes 1 hr 20 or 30 min, with a LOT of effort. Last week I started doing wake to sleep to get him past that 40 min wakeup, which has helped a bit, but still working on it. At this point, is the ideal nap 1 1/2 hrs twice a day, or is it ok to still aim for 1 1/2-2 hrs?

I also have a hard time knowing how to adjust his schedule when things get off a little throughout the week. My typical week is like this:

Sunday- 10:00-noon religious services as a family, then home rest of day

Monday- leave house by 7:30 am to dropoff at grandma's, grandma follows my nap/feed routine, I nurse him at 10:30 feed, pickup at 5:30 and go home

Tuesda-y home all day, then religious meeting as a family from 7 pm-8:45, home at about 9:30/10 pm, baby straight to bed (falls asleep on way home too)

Wednesday- home all day if we want, but previous to starting this EASY program, baby and I were doing volunteer community work together from 9 am-12, then home rest of day. I have stayed home during this training period, but I would like to get back to the volunteer work

Thursday- leave house by 7:00 am to dropff at grandma's, grandma follows my nap/feed routine, pickup at 5:45 and go home

Friday- leave house by 7:00 am to dropoff at grandma's, grandma follows my nap/feed routine, I nurse him at 10:30 feed, pickup at 5:00 and go home

Saturday- volunteer community work as a family from 9 am-12, then home rest of day

So each day in my schedule is a little different, but from week to week those days remain pretty consistent. I never know what to do when I'm not home all day, free to implement naps on time. We do our best in the car or when we are at someone's house for a bit, but he doesn't get his normal nap. When we get home, I try to get a good nap in - does it matter if it is at a different time than normal, but is still 1 1/2 hrs? Will this mess him up? Should I just skip the nap?

I also noticed that on the days I leave home later or when I am home all day, he will nurse at 5:45 or 6 am, then sleep til he wakes up happy at 7:15. But work days I have to get him up at 6:30/6:45 at the latest. Should I allow him to sleep later on some days, or just keep to my 6:30 no matter what?

Sorry so many questions! Thank you so  much for input!! :)

Offline Jodes112

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Re: 3 weeks into EASY and still struggling
« Reply #5 on: June 20, 2016, 18:25:07 pm »
Its normal to have lots of questions!

Hope this answers everything - i have starred my response.

I dont have a lot of knowlege on breastfeeding and the schedule around it, sorry. But the boards over on the eat section cover it all you can have a browse theres lots of info there.


Thankyou for replies! Oh, I guess I misunderstood the timeline when I was reading Tracy's book - I didn't realize it was already time to increase his awake times. It's been hard for me to decipher this, because as he has never had great nights (and they have been MUCH worse for the last 5 months!) and his day naps haven't been ideal, then naturally he has been really tired and fussy during the time he is awake.....so then it seems like he can't stay awake too long. But I have been assuming that if he was sleeping more normally at night and then getting good naps, he would be able to tolerate the average waketimes better (cuz right now, about an hour in to waketime and he starts to get REALLY difficult to keep happy and I'm just counting down the minutes til next nap).

Am I thinking right that when I do adjust (I will today!) his times, he will be overtired and fussy for the first few days, and I shouldn't follow his sleepy cues at first, because otherwise I will put him down at 2 hrs-ish?

*** Yes exactly. Dont push too much though just gently over a few days, then a little bit more.

I actually decided to start solids today, I just didn't want to start too early so I could allow his digestive system a bit more time to mature. But I have been thinking that would probably help, so I'll see how it goes.

*** Good luck with this! You can get help and advice on feeding over on the Eat boards.

YES!! He is teething!! Terribly! It started at 4 mos, not just the drooling, but he started cramming his hands and anything he could grab into his mouth, and chewing chewing chewing. Then he would cry, rub his mouth. His gums look puffy and bumpy and whitish. No teeth have popped up yet, and it's driving us (and him) crazy! We try all the things like cold and chewy things, Hylands teething gel and tablets, clove oil diluted in a carrier oil - it all seems to help a tiny bit for a few minutes. I don't know that it keeps him up at night, but it may?? I'm a huge natural advocate instead of medicine, so I would rather do tylenol as a last resort, especially since it didn't seem like the reason he is waking up - but maybe I'm wrong, I am willing to try it.

*** See how you get on with this! Could be that if you work on the naps, there may be no need to medicate anyway.

So, Jodes112, if I follow that schedule you laid out, is this not nursing all night long, from 6:30 pm until 7 am the next day? Am I still supposed to be doing a dreamfeed since I haven't yet started solids?

*** I cant actually remember what the feeding schedule should look like for this age... I believe 1 or 2 night feeds are normal though at the age he is. No more than this though is needed. You can have a look on the feeding boards for more info (and i will have a look and come back to you) if you think a dream feed helps though then by all means carry on with that. What you dont want to be doing is causing a prop by feeding to sleep all night. LO needs to learn how to self settle.

I saw in someone else response on one of these boards that the recommendations on breastfeeding have been adjusted a bit since Tracy died. What are the recommendations now? Is it still good to feed every 4 hrs during the day, and then go the whole night with no feeds (like an 8 or 9 hr stretch until solids est)? Also, why do you have the first feed at 7 am if he wakes up at 6:30? If he has gone the whole night, isn't he going to be ready to eat at 6:30? Just wondering...

*** At this age it can be 3hourly or 4 hourly or in between 3/4. Again, have a look on the breats feeding boards for sample feeding routines for his age. You can feed right away on wake up, or you can allow time to wake up then feed. Its totally up to you and your DS. My kids becer seemed to be hungry straight away even though they went all night without eating!

.And my baby right now does not ever take the 2 hr nap, he usually does about 1 hr or sometimes 1 hr 20 or 30 min, with a LOT of effort. Last week I started doing wake to sleep to get him past that 40 min wakeup, which has helped a bit, but still working on it. At this point, is the ideal nap 1 1/2 hrs twice a day, or is it ok to still aim for 1 1/2-2 hrs?

*** 1hr 20 to 1hr 30 is pretty normal and if you got 2 of these per day that would be fine. Obviously once you have extended his A time thats what you will be working to.

I also have a hard time knowing how to adjust his schedule when things get off a little throughout the week. My typical week is like this:

Sunday- 10:00-noon religious services as a family, then home rest of day

Monday- leave house by 7:30 am to dropoff at grandma's, grandma follows my nap/feed routine, I nurse him at 10:30 feed, pickup at 5:30 and go home

Tuesda-y home all day, then religious meeting as a family from 7 pm-8:45, home at about 9:30/10 pm, baby straight to bed (falls asleep on way home too)

Wednesday- home all day if we want, but previous to starting this EASY program, baby and I were doing volunteer community work together from 9 am-12, then home rest of day. I have stayed home during this training period, but I would like to get back to the volunteer work

Thursday- leave house by 7:00 am to dropff at grandma's, grandma follows my nap/feed routine, pickup at 5:45 and go home

Friday- leave house by 7:00 am to dropoff at grandma's, grandma follows my nap/feed routine, I nurse him at 10:30 feed, pickup at 5:00 and go home

Saturday- volunteer community work as a family from 9 am-12, then home rest of day

So each day in my schedule is a little different, but from week to week those days remain pretty consistent. I never know what to do when I'm not home all day, free to implement naps on time. We do our best in the car or when we are at someone's house for a bit, but he doesn't get his normal nap. When we get home, I try to get a good nap in - does it matter if it is at a different time than normal, but is still 1 1/2 hrs? Will this mess him up? Should I just skip the nap?

*** I think on days you are out and about you just have to go with the flow. If its a different time a few days a week i doubt this will matter. It would be better to hve some nap than none i think.

I also noticed that on the days I leave home later or when I am home all day, he will nurse at 5:45 or 6 am, then sleep til he wakes up happy at 7:15. But work days I have to get him up at 6:30/6:45 at the latest. Should I allow him to sleep later on some days, or just keep to my 6:30 no matter what?

*** As long as theres only a 30 min discrepancy i dont think this matters and should be ok.

Sorry so many questions! Thank you so  much for input!! :)
« Last Edit: June 20, 2016, 18:27:09 pm by Jodes112 »
Jody
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Offline Jodes112

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Re: 3 weeks into EASY and still struggling
« Reply #6 on: June 20, 2016, 18:38:11 pm »
Just had a browse over on the breast feeding boards and also the feeding solid food boards and theres lots of great info on there. Theres also sample eating routines that you might find useful.

I cant add the link to here though, sorry. The sample routines are in feeding solid food and then frequently asked questions. Bit take a look some useful stuff which answers your questions about breast feeding times ect.
Jody
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Offline Walkernew

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Re: 3 weeks into EASY and still struggling
« Reply #7 on: June 22, 2016, 17:36:37 pm »
Thanks for replies! About my weekly schedule, I guess I was wondering if you had any specific recommendations on how to adapt when I get back home. For example, last night we had our evening religious services at 7 pm-8:45, and normally his bedtime is 7 pm (although the previous night was 6 pm since it was the first day I did without the catnap and decided to put him to bed early). I was able to get him to sleep through most of the services, then he woke up at the end, and talked to people a bit, and fell asleep again on the way home. At 9:45 I fed him and he went to bed. So today he is more tired than the typical day, and I'm just wondering if I should try to get him to nap more, or what?

I just started implementing only 2 naps and 3 hr waketimes on Monday (today is Wednesday), and since I jumped right into it, that activity times have been a little rough. At about 2 hrs he starts getting super fussy and his head bobs while he plays, like he's falling asleep. But I've persevered til the designated nap time, and I think both days he only did 40 min naps, maybe longer one time after waking and resettling, I forget now.

So last night, I fed him that time at 9:45, he wokeup around 12:45, I resettled him with pickup/putdown, and then I fed him at 6 am when he woke crying. I may have fed him around 3:30 - I can't remember, I'm pretty tired! Either way, that was a much better night! I thought he might go back to sleep after the 6:00 feed, but he didn't, so we got up. He was sooo tired though, and since he had a late night, I thought maybe I should adapt by allowing him to nap a little earlier, and I think it was at about 2 hrs or 2 hr 15 min. He slept 30 min and actually woke up happy, so I got him up, thinking I would do the "real" set of 1 1/2 - 2 hr naps when he was next tired today. He quickly became fussy and tired after waking up, and finally at 10:45 I laid him down, and he went to sleep almost immediately. I tried to do wake to sleep 30 min later, but he woke up anyway. He was awake about 6 min, went back to sleep, and to my surprise he slept 1 hr 40 min. My concern is - I feel like I need to accommodate for days when he may be a bit sleep deprived from a late night before, but I don't want to ruin tonight's sleep (and cause early morning waking) by shortening his first wake time of today.

Also, I'm wondering if he really has learned independent sleep yet - he usually falls asleep pretty easy when I first put him down for nap and bedtime. We do winddown, I say sleepy phrase while cradle holding, kiss and laydown. Sometimes I pat his back for a bit if he is fussing, but I try to stop before he is asleep. I pickup putdown if he starts crying in escalating way. Sometimes I shhh a bit, and I talk quietly saying soothing things (I hope I understood the directions correctly!) Usually he rolls over on his side and closes his eyes with a bit of patting, or I just hold my hand on his back if he isn't fussing. Is this falling asleep on his own? I think when I first started, I was a bit more disciplined about not patting at all, but it seems like it calms him down without having to pickup, but now I wonder if I shouldn't be doing it. Will I always have to "babysit" his falling asleep? It seems like almost as much work as when I started the training 3 weeks ago, with a bit less crying. Have I been doing it wrong?

And what do I do days when both naps are just 40 min or so? Should I do a 3rd nap just to get a higher daily total?

Offline Jodes112

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Re: 3 weeks into EASY and still struggling
« Reply #8 on: June 22, 2016, 20:39:47 pm »
On the day where you are out late, you could do 2 naps am and pm and a later cat nap, so nap 9.30-11, nap 2-3.30, catnap 6.30-7 and the bed when home (or on the way)

You are right in that he could be overtired the next day but you need to find what works for you. I think once you have settled into a better routine, you can work out and work round these things easier.

The thing is trough these transitions (3 naps to 2) things will get tough, and OT will creep up, and some days he may have had that little sleep that you have no option but to do a catnap. What i would say though is rather than shortening the A's, a catnap in the eve is a better option, and really push through with those 3hr A times. Eventually it will settle out and the naps will lengthen.

I think it does sound like you are helping him to sleep a little. But, if you are happy to do this, then you an leave that as it is. Its only if it becomes a problem that you would need to make a change (as in you sre there hours patting him, or if you dont actually want to do it and you do want him to donit himself. Its totally fine to help him with a little patting! He sounds like a really content baby and you are doing an amazing job!
Jody
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Offline Jodes112

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Re: 3 weeks into EASY and still struggling
« Reply #9 on: June 26, 2016, 06:46:41 am »
Just thought id check how you were getting on? x
Jody
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Offline Walkernew

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Re: 3 weeks into EASY and still struggling
« Reply #10 on: July 12, 2016, 12:58:46 pm »
Thankyou for checking on me. Things are not going well. After your June 22 post, when you said I may be helping him a little, I stopped helping him. The whole point of all this was that I wanted to be free of captivity to assisting him to sleep. So I quit patting at night, I let him cry a bit more before I picked him up. And the next several days it improved each night a little. But then we had to be out of town over the 4th of July weekend for several days, and the day before we left, I hurt my back, I'm sure from doing so much pickup putdown. I'm prone to lower back issues, and I aggravated it so much that not only could I no longer do pickup putdown, I couldn't even bend over or lift my baby up at all. So I was dependent on my husband to pickup the baby at night, bring him to me to nurse, and then he had to try to get him down again. I could only expect him to do so much, so it wasn't perfect. After about 5 days, my back was getting better, so I can pickup putdown now, but it does still hurt my back, and it is driving me crazy that I am still doing it so much at this point, it's not improving, and my back is going to get injured again any day.

Since we got back home, I've tried to get him back to normal. He's had some good naps during the day, but the nights have tanked. All this time, I have been doing a dreamfeed at 10:00, and he wakes and cries a lot several times throughout the night, but I hold off til at least 2 am to feed, and then I try to make it to 6:15 am to feed. If these 3 times were the only times he woke up and ate, I would be willing to continue that, even though he has gone 8-9 hours without feeds a handful of times and I know he can, and technically he should be going 8 hrs without me nursing him. But he doesn't just wake up at these times, it's always in between each one, and I have to pickup and putdown repeatedly. I thought it was supposed to be getting easier and the pickup times diminishing, but they aren't. Also, my baby seems to get angry when I try to PUPD, like he knows what I'm doing and he doesn't like it.

On top of everything, when I first started this program and switched from on demand feeding to 4 hr feeds, my period started. I don't know if I triggered it by stretching out the nursing, or if it would have come back anyway at that time, but that caused my breastmilk pumping to tank as well. For about a week, I wasn't able to pump even a drop, and then the next 3 days it slowly resumed pumping, and went back to normal. So I used up most of my freezer supply of milk, and was getting really concerned that I wouldn't have enough for work the next few days. It pulled out of it just in time. I've read over and over that this is common from ovulation til the period starts, and you are supposed to pump or feed extra to get your supply going again. I'm in that 10 day time again, and my ability to pump has disappeared and is slowly coming back again. I seem to have enough milk to nurse, my body just won't respond to the pump, which is common during ovulation. So I feel like it's not going to work to nurse extra for half the month, then try to go back to 4 hrs the other half. So I was tempted to go back to on demand feeding and just keep up the rest of the program. But I didn't because my baby actually nurses better when it is stretched out more, even if he acts hungry before that. But I feel frustrated still, wondering if I triggered my period and it's such an uphill battle now every month to cling for dear life onto my pumping supply. It would be worth it if the nights were going great or if he was happy during the day - but no.

Speaking of the day, since I switched to 3 hr waketimes, the naps have improved a little, usually they are 1 hr to 1 hr and 15/30 min, which is good. But he is so tired and fussy during the long waketime. It's miserable a lot of days, he gets tired and clingy at close to 2 hrs, and sometimes he even shows tired cues at 1 hr. But I keep going with it, it's just not fun - it's miserable. I can't get a single thing done, I just spend the day trying to distract him and move him around the house, eagerly anticipating the next nap, which doesn't seem like the way I should feel.

And back to the nights again, he's been growing particularly more fussy and insistently crying at night when he wakes up. I can't figure out if he's hungry, or having a growth spurt, so I try PUPD for awhile, and then I have given in to one more feed at maybe 12:30 or 1:00 am, if he's been crying for awhile, thinking that he must be hungry and I shouldn't not feed him. But then the night night he will wake up crying insistently an additional time, like at 3:30, and after 30 or 40 min of him kicking in bed and crying harder and clinging to me when I pick him up, I decide he must be hungry and I feed him. Then the next night he wakes up an additional time - until he is waking up and being fed like 5 or 6 times! Last night was really bad with crying and kicking, and I thought - this is so stupid! He cries and kicks for so long and we both get no sleep, he becomes so upset, and I ultimately give in because I think he must be hungry, and it is never improving, it's only wasting time and upsetting the baby. So I decided to see what happened if I nursed him as much as he wanted all night, just last night. I fed him like 10 times, and yet as soon as I tried to put him down he just cried with no comforting, just the same as if I hadn't fed him. Finally at 5 am I said that's enough and resolved not to feed him again til 6:30 getup time. But when 6 am rolled around and I had done PUPD like 79 times and no end in sight, my back was hurting terribly, I was near to tears thinking there is no answer! I even took him into my bed twice, but he's never wanted that so it helped nothing.

It's been 6 weeks now, I have tried to be consistent, I haven't taken days off (aside from having to alter a bit when my back was out). I don't understand!! Am I going to be doing PUPD until he's 7? Do I have to feed every 4 hrs 24 hrs a day?? Why does he cry so hard and get so mad and kick? I thought a baby trained with PUPD would recognize the technique and respond to it quickly even if they need a refresher, but he seems to be enraged with it.

I'm just at my wits end. I'm so tired, I'm so fed up with PUPD. I even was tempted to try cry it out instead, which goes against everything I believe in - but I'm just that angry! (I'm not going to though, because I know people who did, and as soon as something messed it up, they had to do it all over again, so that isn't the answer either. Besides, I think he has proven that he knows how to fall asleep on his own.)

And when I read other websites, they say if the baby can fall asleep on their own but wakes to eat and falls asleep after, they may not be ready to night wean, and other reasons why it may be too soon. I'm just confused and sooooo angry and tired and frustrated. I feel like I always fall for thinking something will work if I just try hard enough and stick with it, but then I eventually have to accept that I was lied to. I'm starting to feel like that about sleep. Does this really work for anyone? Tracy said she never saw this now work for someone after 10 days or a BIT longer (not 6 weeks!), unless the parents were doing it wrong. Either I'm doing it completely wrong, or this is just one more conspiracy I have bought into, and I should just give up.

I'm sorry, I just feel crazy. Everything is going wrong :(

Offline Jodes112

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Re: 3 weeks into EASY and still struggling
« Reply #11 on: July 13, 2016, 13:00:26 pm »
Hello again!

Blimey, sounds like you are really at the end of your rope. Im sorry to hear things have not improved!

Could you post your typical day now, in EASY format, so i can see what he's doing in the day?

The night wakes make me thing he is in some kind of discomfort. Is the room too hot/too cold? Are there any noises that could be waking him? Is he teething? Any colds/blocked nose going on? Especially with you saying he is grumpy during the day too....

Did you start solids? If so what has he been having and could this be upsetting his stomach?

Please let me know
X

Edit: with regards to breast feeding & your period, you can pop a post in the breastfeeding board for help and advice on that aspect, and keep this one as helping with sleep x
« Last Edit: July 13, 2016, 13:02:18 pm by Jodes112 »
Jody
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Offline tathi-b

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Re: 3 weeks into EASY and still struggling
« Reply #12 on: July 18, 2016, 17:58:32 pm »
Oh Hun it sounds like you are having a hard time, sending you good vibes and online hugs!  It happens to us all at one point or another unfortunately!  Please try to hang in there, collectively we can find a solution for your baby's sleep troubles. :)

It sounds to me like you two are having multiple issues so maybe if we break it all down into manageable parts we can work it out?

Your baby is 8 months now yes?  I presume that he is now on 3 meals per day and milk before bed and in the morning?  Please correct me if I'm wrong?

My baby is 7.5 months now so pretty close in age to your son.  Pick up/ put down is a method that never worked for us.  It was almost as if by picking her up I was disturbing her more so I have always patted her bottom and that seems to work for her.  Occasionally I have to pick her up but I sit with her on the nursing chair until she is calm, until her breathing has gone back to normal and then I put her back in her cot.  Remember that each baby is different and has his/ her own rhythm, this is what works for me and my baby.

In my experience multiple wakings in the night are more often discomfort of some sort rather than hunger.  Bear in mind that cluster feeding can be soothing; I guess its the baby equivalent of comfort eating.  At his age my first instinct would be teeth.  My daughter cries and moans in her sleep a lot these days and she has 2 teeth coming through.  Have you considered medicating him if that is the case?  Another usual problem we face is gas.  If she has trapped wind there is discomfort and tear in the middle of the night.  Sometimes when I sit with her I massage her tummy and that helps the gas shift.  Alternatively some gripe water or gas drops tend to solve it.

I didn't breastfeed for a series of reasons, but my friends who have all seem to have a decrease in milk supply around 6 months.  Could it be that it's your body going back to pre baby cycle?  8 months is a long time and the body will normally readjust.  Have you spoken to your doctor about your concerns?

Each baby is different and it sounds to me like you and your little one are going through a particularly rough patch.  Do you think there is a chance that he is overtired?  It can sometimes take a couple of weeks to re-jig the schedule and if he is struggling with 3 hour awake times maybe pull back a little so that he doesn't get overtired and grumpy.  Pushing him to stay awake longer than he is able will only make things hard for the 2 of you!  Maybe for a day or two forget the clock and work on his cues and see how that goes?   He could be mid growth and that will make him more tired or he could have a little virus that is just making him grumpy and not sick... there are a million things that affect sleep. 

Once you have done that it could be helpful to share his current schedule with us so we might be able to help you more, but at 8 months I'd be looking one morning nap of around 1.5- 2 hours and one afternoon nap of around 1.5 - 2 hours.  My baby's schedule looks a little like this.

6am wake up
7am bottle
8:30 breakfast

9:30 nap

11am wake up/ bottle
12:30 lunch

2pm nap

3:30 wake up/ bottle or snack
4:30/5pm dinner
5:30 bath
6pm bottle/ bed

10:30 - bottle

We are currently trying to move her to wake up at 7am and in turn go to bed at 7pm but this will likely take several weeks.

Look, don't give up.  Other mums here know a lot more than me and I'm sure there is a solution!

Hugs...

xx