8 MO not sleeping and so many bad habits. Clueless where to start! HELP!!

[Liv23]

Hi everyone,

Finally reached the point of desperation. My 8 mo little girl is a dream during the day, happy, eating and such a joy, BUT she doesn't sleep well at all and after eight long months of me having broken sleep, I'm finally at desperation point!

This is her general routine

W - usually 7am although can be later if she has a bad night. Bf on waking
E - 8am
A
S 9.30/10 for 30-40 mins bf when she wakes
E 12.30/1
A
S 14.30/15.00 for 60-90 mins
E 17/17.30
Bath 17.30/18.00
Bed 18.30

She then wakes every 30-60 mins throughout the night and I bf her back to sleep. Generally I give up in the night and co-sleep instead but she's recently started waking up moaning/crying in her sleep and only bf will settle her. With all her naps, she bfs to sleep too and sleeps on me for naps. Mainly because I like it, but I know I need to start putting her in her cot.

I've tried pupd once but had to stop as I had such a bad back, but this is fine now.

My big issue is knowing where to start. Naps? Nighttime? Weaning off boob? She also doesn't settle with my OH which means I can't go out in the evening at all, which is tough!

Please help!

Thank you so much in advance! Xx

[FPT23]

Hello

Welcome to BWF! Love newbies ...first off, congratulations on your baby girl -- they are wonderful but quite tricky, that's for sure

I'm more than happy to help and offer some suggestions and see if we can help you some! Xo

For starters, many many HUGS. That sounds so hard and super tiring. There is nothing with wanting some help as you are now exhausted and it can affect a mother in many ways when we are not well rested. As you said, by this age baby should be pretty good at sleeping for longer stretches for the most part. Positive vibes your way and I hope this passes for you quickly and smoothly

Now, based on your EASY-- first thing I would do is def push her A times a bit. At this age she can easily pull around a 3hr + A time. My LO is 9 months and is at about 3.15/3.20 A times. Of course all babies are different but I think 2.5 is a bit low. This could help her be more tired come BT and hopefully stay asleep. I would gradually increase her A times over the course of a week or 2+. Doing this slowly and steadily prevents excessive OT which in return can make a baby extremely fussy and chronically OT (over tired). I always suggest 15 min increase-- I find it's easier to figure out times rather than 5, 7, etc mins ...What you want to do ideally is increase her A time by 15 mins for a few days- once you see she's good and still taking long naps (ASSUMING BF is not a prop right now) I would move on to another A time. For example, based on your EASY she sleeps around 9:30 after waking around 7 or later... so I would try having her asleep by 9:45am for a few days... then in a few more days try her A time before BT or before/after second nap (your choice) by 15 as well. Hopefully that works out for you

IRT your BF prop, it could very well be that. PU/PD is tough and takes a lot of consistency on your end. Hopefully with the EASY tweak it can help some. If not, I personally do not have experience with that method, but have you every tried the gentle removal plan by Pantley? I've had some experience with it and I find it to work super gently and I personally prefer the less tears approach, but it takes awhile and lots of patience. I will go ahead and provide the link so you can look over it and see if it's a match for you:

Gentle Removal Plan

Mom knows best so if you feel BF has become the prop here, then hopefully this link is for you. Another weaning method at the least.

Additionally, I would like to add a few more suggestions. Personally, from my experiences on the forums and reading a lot of mamas situations, when a LO wakes so continuously every 30/60 mins as you stated... I want to suggest perhaps some sort of discomfort possibly? Could she be teething? How are solids working for her? Is her dinner too close to BT or something that can be too gassy for her etc etc. You didn't mention this to be discomfort so naturally, mothers instinct, but maybe something to consider? Teething meds before BT?

I also would like to ask, has she recently discovered a new physical milestone? Around this age (9/10/11 mths) babies begin perfecting their crawl, sitting up or even standing. That can also begin to cause some nightly disruptions. Again, this wasn't mentioned so maybe not but something to keep in mind ....

As far as where to begin with weaning BFing to SLEEP... I would begin with naps first, personally. If you choose to to Pantleys method, it will most likely take a few weeks so it's best to mentally prepare for some longer nights for a bit. So that is why I suggest naps first. I would start with her first nap as that is generally the "easiest" nap of the day. When you are ready to tackle nights, maybe pick some weeks where you know you will be able to rest during the day or you won't have much going on etc. Now, I know you said baby won't settle with OH- typical ! But this can also be to some advantage if you wish to try PUPD again. See, baby knows what she wants.. she can smell you, feel you, and just knows you and all of you- se doesn't want daddy ...but ive seen that the success is higher and won't take as long when DH takes over. It's kind of hard to wean when your what she wants KWIM? Something you can try is wear one of her favorite blankets (or something she has been sleeping with) and wear it inside your shirt/bra/on you, through the day and when dad helps, he can wear it so she can have your scent near? Something to try. You can also try that for BT and/or naps to try and get her in the cot. Lay her down with it so she can smell you as she dozes off.

A few other things before I end this long post ...has she always woke this much or did this just start to happen? When she wakes, is she upset? Crying? Or is she just whining and moving a bit? How often do you wait before you help her, or do you allow her to see if she will self settle.

Many hugs and I hope this advice helps slightly! Hopefully others can jump on with their experience! I BF as well but I never BF to sleep so I can't really relay a personal experience but I hope what I provided will help some. Your doing wonderfully and it's super hard but one day this will all pass mama, hang in there

Xo

[Liv23]

Hello!

Thank you SO much for such a long reply. I cannot tell you how much I appreciate it already!

I'm not surprised you suggested that with her A time, I did always wonder that. I will kick start with hat from tomorrow!

Thank you for the link, I'm desperate to try and cause as little discomfort as possible to my little girl, so this method looks absolutely ideal and I'm actually looking forward to trying it out.

With the frequent wakings, she is usually asleep an hour after she has eaten her dinner. Would it be better to try and push this to a much bigger gap? She can get frustrated and is very gassy overnight, so she may well have issues with her food. I will definitely need to keep more of a close eye on that, thank you. She started crawling a week ago and is constantly moving around but also on her feet constantly trying to walk, so I presume this is having quite an impact on her sleep too from what you've mentioned?

One very strange thing she does is sits up as soon as she's woken. She will generally cry (no tears)/moan very loudly but then sit straight up and looks around. Occasionally I can get away with just turning her around and putting her on her tummy and she will go straight back to sleep. Is this an obvious sign of something I could be missing?

Your advice on my OH is also hugely welcome. Having not had to endure the wake ups himself his entire time, knowing it can be easier with him is a relief and he will love the idea of getting stuck in and hopefully creating more of a bond between the two of them (and maybe allowing me out of the house in the evening!)

So was starting to do really well with her sleep, even lasting up to seven hours straight at one point,, but this ended abruptly at around 4.5months with a sleep regression and has never come back. More often than not, she will wake moaning very loudly and moving quite a bit or she will sit up like mentioned above. As her bed is next to me, I would usually peer in to see what she's doing. If she's sat up, I take her out straight away and she goes straight into BF or if she's still lying down I lay May hand on her to try and soothe (which doesn't work half the time)

Thank you thank you thank you again for reading my post and taking the time to come back to me with such positivity and so much advice

Big hugs back xxx

[FPT23]

Your very welcome happy to help

Good luck on her A time push! Hopefully that helps elongate her nightly stretch !

IRT the gentle removal plan, your welcome. It is a slower MUCH MORE patient route but I find as a mother it is just easier to endure- especially having created that bond from BF. I BF myself so I understand. Having known the BW ways, I was able to never have the breast as a prop-- in the beginning I was all about it...

Which brings me to my next point on your regression and never jumping back. When I said I did all the BFing hacks in the beginning I meant it! I BF to sleeep, for comfort, or just latched him on with those EWs just to get extra shut eye ...BUT, around that time 3/4 months, a baby begins to make associations (I would say more at the 4mth mark). This means, whatever method your baby is using to fall asleep or comfort themselves will be what they will now start to expect. So, that doesn't surprise me how you say it never changed after that. It seemed like the right solution at the time but you created a prop, which is ok though. With time and patience, they can slowly and gently be removed or in other words, find a new way to simply fall asleep independently

With he solids, I would allow for a bigger gap and perhaps watch the types of foods being given to her at nights. Avoid foods that you notice cause her gas or constipation etc. Maybe lighten the amount as well? You mentioned she is gassy so perhaps before BT you may offer some gas relief drops? I didn't see you mention teeth but if teeth are causing sleep disruption I would also consider some relief before BT as well

Yk, when she sits up in her sleep, you should just give her time... allow her to go back to sleep. My thing is, if they aren't crying, they are ok, yk? Babies also moan and sometimes whimper in their sleep. Try giving her a bit to see if she can settle on her own. And yes, new found mobility causes some disruption too at nights. A lot of that can just be developmental and will pass....but...

I think yours is a case of simply weaning yourself as a prop. Allowing her to self settle ibdependently. Don't at all for a second think or feel guilty that you are taking something from her either. Your not weaning BF you are simply showing her a new way to fall asleep. It will take time but she will catch on. It is over all better for her and her health too, to get the rest she really needs to thrive.

I hope the suggestions for wearing an item allowing for your scent to remain on it, can help soothe her in her sleep too or with hubby As moms we take on so much but we need our rest and ME time too. I feel all that is just as important to be a great mother--- happy, rested, and content!

Many hugs xo

[katkniep]

Just following here as well, mine is 8.5 months, also spent a lot of time BFing to sleep (nothing more natural imo) but have been using the gentle removal plan by Pantley (with sucess) and still co-sleeping (but looking to use that bed next to mine soon).

Mine sits up in bed as well and looks around when he wakes at night! Like they are completely awake no?! Does yours start to crawl around as well?

[Ummah]

I am also following this thread with interest as well. My baby is 5.5 months, and I have come to the conclusion that bed sharing and constant bf him to sleep through the night is what is preventing him from sleeping in long stretches. I think me sleeping next to him over stimulates him, he is unable to fall back to sleep without my help and wakes every 1-2 hours every night.

I feel I have to try and break this cycle now as I need to have more rest on a night ready for going back to work. I  want to get him into the crib next to our bed, has anyone got any tips for this transition that worked for them? He currently only sleeps about 1 hour in the crib up until his first wake up, therefater I am just too tired to keep putting him back in.

Vicious cycle!! 

Liv23 hope you get some improvement very soon.