Sudden Night wakings and refusal of CN with 15w old. Sign for 3.5h EASY?

[Nora2kids2]

Hello,
My DD is 15w old now and the last couple of days I have observed a change in the routine, especially regarding CN and Night Wakings.
She used to being put to bed ~6.30-7pm ; no DF;  NF around 3 am. She usually woke btw 6.30-7.30am to start the day.
The last few days, however, she woke to feed around midnight/1am then again around 4am/5am and she woke at 5:30am or 6am to start the day (with the 5:30 wake up she just babbled and went down for a short nap on her own so we finally started the day at 6:30am). Beside this, she refused to Catnap the last two days (or CN happened after 2hr A falling asleep on boob finally)

Our routine was the following yesterday:
NF: midnight+ 4am
EW:6am - took a short nap so real WU was 6:45am
A: 1h40m
S: 1h30m
A: 1h30m
S: 40m (I guess the 1h40m is the appropriate A time for her, so should have kept her awake for another 10 mins to avoid UT nap, but it is kind of difficult to predict if she Will take 5 or 15mins to fall asleep)
A: 2h10m - she refused to catnap after being put into cot at 1h20m A and was crying, fussing until 2h10m A where she fell asleep on boob finally.
S: 50m (I had to wake her to start Evening routine)
A: 50m (bath time including E)
S: 5.5h as she woke at 1:20am, and then 4:50am
WU: 6am

On feeding: she is BF, I try to keep the 3hr feeding routine, but when the next feed would fall into sleeping time I feed her in case the previous one was more than 2h15m ago.

Any idea what I should change so we can go back to one NF and a 7am start for the day plus solve the CN issue?

thanks
Nora

[creations]

Hi
have you read this on the 3-4 hr EASY?
https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=63161.0
If you were doing 3 long naps and a CN before then you likely need to drop to either:
3 long naps, no CN
or
2 long nap plus a CN
(depending on how long the A time is, how long night sleep is and how long each nap is)

The A time is likely a little short now, I'd increase by 10 mins or so to get to 1hr 50 ish, A time at 4 months is 1hr 45 to 2hr but if you've already been on 1hr 40 running up to this issue then I'd increase. A times are only guidance and some need longer a little earlier.
https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=84884.0

The additional night feed might be a growth spurt.  As she is hungry just go ahead and feed her. GS usually last several days.

hope this helps

[Nora2kids2]

Hi Creations!

I have read many things on 3-4 transition on the forum, this is why the  idea occured to me, but your answer is reassuring, thanks a lot.

I thought we are already done with the 3m growth spurt, so I thought the NF was the start of a bad habit but today I offered her BF after a short nap (2h15m after prev feed) and she took a full feed, so may be a growth spurt indeed.

How should I understand the suggested A times in the forum? We have 2 more weeks until celebrating 4m old. Should we reach the 1h45-2h A time by the beginning of 4m or by the end? Sorry for the silly question 

[creations]

It's not a silly question.
The thing with the guidance times is that every baby is different so some will be on the higher end of the A time even before they reach that age. Some will be on the lower end even after the listed age.  The best way to judge is to look at what was working (if anything was) prior to a routine going off track and then adapt and tweak for your own LO.
If for example you were getting good length naps on 1hr 30 and naps go short (UT nap eg 40/45 min) and there is nothing else bothering your LO (pain, teething, illness, developmental leap) then chances are you need an increase by around 15 min.  Often we increase in small steps over a few days.
You will get to know your LO's times for example with mine I had a problem when I reduced the first A time down to the guidance time and it was too short for him. When I realised I needed to listen to him I went back to a long first A time and he napped better again.  His following A times were shorter than the first A time of the day, his last A time was generally the shortest (mine was 2 wks ahead of the guidance ages which I found amazing as he was born 2 wks over so theoretically was a bit ahead of himself).  Some LOs are the opposite to this.
Don't be afraid of being over or under the guidance time so long as it suits your LO - but also don't forget A times are only one aspect of aiming for good sleep.

Some parenting methods use strict times and schedules but BW doesn't.  We use the times as a guide and follow LOs cues and needs to try to get the best routine possible.

I think there is also a 4 month growth spurt as the info on the 3hr EASY to the4hr EASY mentions a GS at the same time as the window of moving to the longer routine.

[Nora2kids2]

Ok , thank you for the explanation!

Yesterday she took 3 good naps (1h20m, 2h, 2h 30m, each after 1h40 /1h45 A time)) and put her down at 6:30pm for the night. She woke at 2am and 5:15am. At 2am NW she fell asleep immediately, but with the 5:15 wake up and feed she was full alert when finishing it. I put her back to the cot telling her that she needs to sleep. Hope she gets the message . ( it is 5:45am and she is babbleing in the cot) . My thumbrule is that we won’t start the day before 6am.
Somehow the whole day should be shifted forward 1 hr... should I just wait and see for a few days if this will sort out naturally, or should I use any techniques?

[creations]

It's tricky to get back to sleep after waking at 5 something.
Yes moving the day on an houris possible. It can cause a bit of OT in young babies but you should be able to manage it and settle back down in a week.
The idea is to move everything in the routine by a set time, usually 15 mins each day although if your LO has OT naps (waking after 10 or 20 mins) you can go slower, say 5-10 mins each day.
So, gently delay everything by that amount of time across the day and then the next day another step (either another 15 min or if your'e going slower another 5 or 10).  When I've done it I've written it all down so that I can remember what I'm doing.
This is common with the clock changes so not at all unusual.
https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=44509.0

[Nora2kids2]

Hi,
Would like to say thank you for the advice. I have increased A time up to 1hr50m ( DD is turning 4 mo next weeek) and she naps in the range of 1h30-2h 3 times a day, or 2 long and a catnap.
BF is every 3.5 or 4 h and there is only  1 NIghtfeed around 2-3 am.

New question: if she eats at around 2-3am she doesn’t seem to be hungry in the morning and eats only 2-4mins and gets hungry by the time she should take her first nap. Then she falls asleep during BF.  (Side note: she is a quick feeder,  full BF takes max 9-13mins).
Any suggestion what should I change?
Thanks!!
Nora

[creations]

Do you do a dream feed?

[Nora2kids2]

No, I tried several times but I was unable to ger her to open her mouth. Was stroking her face,chin, head but she was sooo deeply asleep that no success to put my nipple into her closed mouth. Maybe I was too gentle?? 

[creations]

Not everyone has the DF, I was just wondering as it could have been effecting the NF time.
Not sure, she's obviously going longer stretches but then it's causing her not to be so hungry in the morning at WU.  Rather than feed directly at WU have you waited for when she asks for it?  If she is not asking to eat immediately at WU you could just hold off 30-60min and feed during the A time, this would give her a chance to build an appetite and you can still have more A time after the E to separate it from S.  My DS never ate when he woke, he wouldn't and if encouraged only took a tiny bit so I just waited.
If that doesn't help then perhaps see what happens if you do a smaller feed at the NF?  not to make her cry with hunger but just see if a smaller feed satisfies her enough and then she might eat better at WU?

[Nora2kids2]

Thank you, will try tonight the shorter NF. I keep my fingers crossed