Still BF 13 mo. to sleep w/ 2-3 night wakings. Help!

[missjel]

I am amazed to see so many moms with good solid routines for their babies.

This is the schedule for my baby.  I am a definite winger so it varies a lot.

10 am wake up
11 am breakfast
1 pm daycare
3 pm lunch
5 pm home - asleep in the car usually
7 pm up from her nap
8 pm dinner
9 pm bath
10-11pm sleep

She eats okay for her size.  She drinks whole milk, but only drinks very little (1 oz) at a time.

She doesn't want to miss out on anything at the daycare, so she doesn't nap.  However, she only knows to fall asleep on the breast, or in the car, that might be why.
She doesn't BF during the day if she doesn't want to go to sleep.

Any other time she BF other than going to sleep is when she's bored and happens to notice my boobs. 
I think I'm almost on EASY but she is still feeding to sleep.
At night, she signs for BF when she is sleepy. It seems to take longer and longer to put her to sleep.

I spent last month trying 'gradually' shortening the BF time and pulling out nipple before she falls asleep completely, but doesn't seem to be working. 
Should I continue on?  Is this the only way?

I would like to wean when she is ready, but would I have to stop BF altogether to get her to sleep on her own?
Help~~

[Samuel's mum]

Hi there and Welcome to the boards.
I hope you don't mind me moving your post - but it's more about a sleeping issue than the mechanics of her breastfeeding.

When you say the gentle removal plan isn't working - do you mean she's determined to still fall asleep on the breast or that it hasn't prevented the night wakings? It's very important to get her to fall asleep without the breast actually in her mouth and gradually leave her more and more awake. Until she has a sense she'll be able to use some independent skills to fall asleep without the breast.

Using EASY means a baby/toddler doesn't feed before sleep or have a nursing to sleep association. Ideally you'd persist with the gentle removal and then insert something else between feeding and sleeping. It doesn't matter at this point whether it's another prop such as singing a particular song or patting/stroking. At this age my nursling would feed before bed and then we'd finish by singing a very specific song which he had come to associate with sleep (just so I could break the specific nursing/sleeping link).

She has quite an unusual schedule i.e. very late nights and late wakings. When you say 'usually' - do you mean sometimes she doesn't sleep at all? On those days she might be waking more due to overtiredness.

She obviously has a very strong association with sleep and nursing but that doesn't mean you have to wean if you don't want too. You are not the first person to have this problem. I think because of her very strong association it's likely she's waking after most sleep cycles and using the boob to transition back to sleep. Have you ever attempted to settle her without any breastfeeding e.g. have daddy doing in (if you have one)? It really might be easier if someone else handles the nightweaning and settling her without a feed.
If you feel gradual removal just isn't happening then this might be the next step - staying with her and giving her comfort but using every other method at your disposal other than the boob. It will mean a very tough few nights but it will get better after it gets worse.
Good Luck.

[missjel]

Thank you. I wasn't sure exactly where to post~

She demands my boob when she is sleepy, and she won't fall asleep without the breast in her mouth.  Sometimes when I get her off, she will turn around and fall asleep, but most of the times, she gets frustrated and roots.  So I continue on until she is asleep or hope that she just turns around when I try the second, third, fourth time.....

She has skipped her nap completely two times. When I said 'usually' it meant that she is asleep in the car, so she doesn't feed to sleep then.

I tried having her hold this stuffed bear while I was nursing -so it is sandwiched between me and her - so that she would associate the bear with sleep, and not the breast, but when she is eager to nurse, she pulls it aside and gets closer to me.

Its been tough with her night wakings, because we are co-sleeping.  Her dad doesn't seem to be bothered with whining toddler stepping over him to get to me nor does he wake up....
She sees me right when she wakes up and signs for BF.  In average she wakes up about 3 times a night.  Holding her back to sleep works only with the first N/W.  Rest of the times, she gets agitated with me holding her and demands BF and I give in..

I once tried story telling... but she ended up just getting wide awake so that didn't work. 
But I didn't think about singing a song.  I will try it tomorrow~

Thank you~

[binxyboo]

Hi, welcome to BW.

I saw your post, and don't have much time right now, but just wanted to post a link to another thread where I shared a little about my experience of night weaning https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=79260.msg677204#msg677204

One thing that really stood out to me is how late you begin and end your days. Usually between 7-8 is the norm. One of my fave books about sleeping, "Healthy Sleep Habits, Happy Child" by Dr. Weissbluth, stresses the importance of sleeping at biologically driven times. I would hazard a guess that this routine is not helping her overall sleep. Sleep that occurs at the wrong times of the day and night is not as restorative to the body as sleep that occurs at the right times. Think of a shift worker, while they may get a good total hours of sleep, because it happens at the wrong biological times, it is not as beneficial to the body. Is there a reason you follow this type of time schedule?

Another thing that helped in creating associations was while I was nursing Riley, I would sing to him. Eventually, he would not need to comfort nurse any more, he would be happy just to have me sing as a way to help him relax and winddown.

That's all I can think of for now,
Michelle.

[Layla]

Missjel - just wanted to note on the schedule as well. Most 13mo's are still taking 2 naps (1 short nap in the morning and a longer nap in the afternoon) so your days would look something like this...

7am - wake for the day
10.30am - morning nap (wake your baby at 45 mins to get a longer afternoon nap)
2pm ish - afternoon nap (usually a longer one 1.5hrs)
7ish - bedtime

Or if you want her on 1 nap it would be something like this:
7am - wake for the day
12-12.30 - 2hr nap
7ish - bedtime'

At the moment, she is awake for 7hrs before she takes the 2hr nap and that is waaay too long for a 13mo. The NW could also be enhance by the fact that she is chronically overtired....

Are you happy with the co-sleeping arrangemement or did you want to wean her off the breast and into the cot as well???

Layla

[missjel]

Thank you Michelle and Layla for constructive replies~

I wanted to follow the type of schedule you suggested...  My husband works long hours, and gets home late... and he would want to play with her, and she kind of stayed awake until he came home, so when he gets home around 9:30, he eats a bit, and plays with her, and that pushed the bed time, so she naturally got up late.

Now we are working on getting her to go to sleep early so that she wakes up early and plays with him before he goes to work rather than after.  IT has worked for two straight days now, so I think there is a good chance that we might stick with her waking up at 8 now.

She used to sleep in her crib and slept through the night when she was 3 months!!  But she got sick and her nose was all stuffed up and I felt bad leaving her in the crib. So I held her half the night to prop up her head (just could have used a pillow but was too scared with SID) and it lasted about a week. And I just kept her on my bed.
Even then, I fed her to sleep, so that wasn't good.  I know now, but it worked so well back then, I didn't think twice about it.  Plus my mother in law encouraged me...

She was on my bed but once she learned to roll over, she fell off the bed so I moved down to the floor with her and my husband slept on the bed.  This was okay except that she was rolling around too much.  Another thing was that she would wake up, doesn't even look for me, but just signs BF with a grunt knowing I'm right next to her.

I always wanted to sleep on the bed, and knowing that I want a second child, I had to teach her to sleep on her crib.  But I didn't have the heart to move her back to her crib all of sudden, so I took out a side of the crib and had it right above my bed.  So that I had easy access to her if I had to BF during the night or before bed too.

I think so far she likes her crib.  For past two days she went to bed at 9:30 and woke up around 8.  One day she took two naps, and the other just one.

Today she woke up at 8, took a nap from 3 to 5, and went to sleep at 12.....I was in the room with her from 9:30 but she wouldn't go to sleep.... I think it was the iced tea she enjoyed with her dad at dinner..... how could he not know??

Thank you~~ I'll keep you posted 

[Layla]

Missjel - good to hear she is making a transition/liking her cot

I have to say though, I still think that 7hrs before a nap is extremely long for her  . Mine at 2+ yrs can only just handle 6hrs and she gets REALLY cranky if she doesn't go down then... Try not to have her awake for any more than 3.5-4hrs if on 2 naps and if you want her taking 1 nap then it would be more like 5hrs of A time....

Great idea to have dad spend time with her in the morning rather than night. Much better for the baby in the long term....

Good luck
Layla