2 1/2 year old... drop nap or keep trying???

[cookie cookie]

I need some advice here please. I'm sure we're not the only parents going through this so I'm hoping some of you can post your experiences and tips for us as DH and I are at our wits end.  :-[Our DD is 2 1/2 and is resisting her naps most days. Some days she will go right to sleep within a half an hour and some days she doesn't sleep at all. DH and I decided that since she was fighting the nap so much that we'd try her with no nap to see how she would get along. Well, it's not going so well. She's melting down by suppertime most nights and some nights she makes it great up to bedtime but then melts down as we start her bedtime routine. She totally loses it and will take a major tantrum until she just goes to sleep. We don't know what to do. Should we try to make her keep her nap? Or skip the nap and give her a really early bedtime?  Here is what her day usually looks like with a nap:

7:00-7:30am awake (this is the only consistent part of her day!)
1pm goes for nap after a few books with Mommy (sometimes goes right to sleep but usually plays a while then sleeps or doesn't go to sleep at all. Most days only falls asleep around 2:30 or 3... then won't wake until 4:30 or 5... this of course pushes bedtime to about 9...later than we want)
7:45-8pm bedtime routine
8-8:30pm bedtime. This becomes 9-9:30pm if she falls asleep late in the day for her nap (which is too late for DH and I).

Without a nap her day looks like this:

7-7:30am awake
5-6pm some days melting down by this time.
7-7:30pm bedtime routine and bedtime... usually ending with a meltdown and not doing our routine which we've had since she's been an infant. She crashes by this time but not in a nice way.

Should we try skipping the nap and making bedtime 6:30ish? Is that too early? I tried all day today to get her to nap and she simply wouldn't go to sleep. Our day ending with a major meltdown at 7pm and she was sound asleep by 7:30pm but not in a nice happy way that it used to be. Please help!!

Oh and when we try to wake her after only napping for an hour... look out... she has a tantrum for sure!!

[Layla]

BIG {{{{{{{{HUGS}}}}}}}}}} to you!!!

I am going through the EXACT same thing with Isabella & we have been for a few months now. I thought she was done with napping but then I got her back on track by allowing her to nap with me in my bed! I am sorry as this is very not BW like & some fear that it would mean the toddler will then ask to sleep with mummy at night but that was the ONLY way to get her to nap again. About a week ago it stopped working so we started doing quiet time on the couch but yesterday & today she was back in my bed again.

It is sooo hard to advise you whats the right thing to do! I know we are in the process of dropping a nap but 3-4 consecutive days of no naps & we have some major tantrums as well over here. Getting by the afternoons when she doesn't nap is a HUGE struggle.... so much so that dinner is around 4pm... bath to follow & she's in bed & OUT of it by 6pm (she wakes around 6am). So you are doing the right thing by putting her to bed early & if you want to you could try 15mins earlier.... if she's waking up earlier though then you know for sure that 12hrs is all she is going to do at night.

I would first try quiet time... set her up in her room with books, etc... & if she wants to nap she will... if not she won't but at least she is having some sort of a break. If you think that she really needs the nap then you could try what I did... do you think she would fall asleep with you? Or you could try a video on the couch & maybe that would let her rest a little & recharge her batteries.

With Isabella I am not going to do something as drastic as stop her from napping altogether but she is definitely forming a pattern of some sort. Last week we had no naps for 3 days & then she crashed for an hour nap.... then it was 4 days no nap & yesterday she did 1hr nap with my DH. Today she was in a terrible terrible mood as early as 7.30am so I suspect she didn't sleep well at night & probably woke up really early. She started crying over a band-aid... wanted it on... then didn't.... then did... then didn't... (you get the idea) so at 11.30am I went to lay down with her & by 12pm she was sleeping! I really think you need to go with the flow until the nap is over and done with. I am trying so hard to be patient & some days are better than others .

The key to afternoons on those dreadful no-nap days is disctraction, distraction & more distraction! I take her out of the house cause if we are indoors then everything is unpleasant. She cries over everything and anything & is just so miserable (poor girl). So I save the parks for the afternoons, train rides, backyard activities, the beach... whatever I can think of. If there is a meltdown I am really sympathetic to the fact that she hasn't slept & just try to ride it out the best way I can.

So I don't think you should cut it out yet but allow her the chance to nap daily & if she doesn't then continue with the earlier bedtimes.

Lucky with us I didn't have to wake Isabella up at all for the last few months (I never really did wake her up at all to be honest). She cut her 2hr nap to 1.5hrs aaaages ago & then it went down to 1.25hrs & when she does nap these days it really is only as long as 45mins - 1hr (with an occasional 1.25hr nap). I put her down for the night at 7pm & she does about 10.5-11hrs at night.

hth & I am sorry I couldn't be of much more help. This transition is even worse than the 2-1 transition I just went through with dd2. I really hope mine gets used to not sleeping all day soon or I need to come up with more things to do with her in the afternoons.

Layla

[deb]

Actually, perhaps you can use the time change to your advantage, since the clock will say a different time shortly (or is it already different for you up there in Canada?).

Odds are that she'll go back and forth for a while, and the time change will mess with it anyway, so if you can work out that she goes down maybe even earlier than usual - just do the naptime routine maybe half an hour earlier if you can. If it's dark enough where you are, maybe you can treat her "wakeup" like a night waking and see if she'll go back to sleep or at least stay in her room and chill?

We had to stop Josie taking naps at almost 2-1/2 or have 10:30PM fall-asleep times, and Nat gave them up on her own (except for the odd nap now when she's sick or hasn't slept well the night before) before 2 years. Ad then there's Josie's friend who was still napping at FOUR years! (and going to bed late AND/or getting up early!) We started w/Quiet Time at about half past noon and she was done with that about an hour later, and if she'd fallen asleep I'd let her have 90 minutes and resign myself to a late bedtime, and if she stayed awake (she had music on as well, a Music Together CD usually), then she went to bed at an hour that allowed DH and me some "us" time!

Anyway, whatever you end up doing, it's possible the time change may take care of some of your worries for you, and I think you can use it to your advantage in this case.

[cookie cookie]

Thanks Layla for your reply. I feel much better even knowing that someone else is living this with me! We too are having some days where Sydnee will take a nap on her own without even telling us. If all gets quiet and I go check on her I'll find her in bed sleeping or in her chair sleeping. It's only been two weeks since we've cut her naps out but we said if she decides to want to sleep then we won't stop her. I can't really see any pattern yet after two weeks. But like you said I try to keep afternoons to go the park or somewhere that will distract her because getting bored at home seems to set her off when she is overtired. We also have a four month old DS and I just hate disrupting his afternoon nap to take her places to keep her from melting down. I just got DS into a really nice EASY routine and his afternoon nap is his good nap but I know if I keep Sydnee in the house too many days in a row bored then she will lose it. But sometimes the trips backfire on me too. Yesterday I took the kids to the park and Sydnee started to melt down there. She said she wanted to go home that she was tired. My DS also started to melt down at the same time. Oh the joy!! Anyway, after I got them both fastened into their car seats and started the car moving they both passed out immediately. They were both melting down from being tired! I drove around for almost and hour then brought them home. Sydnee was really cranky for a while after she woke up as an hour wasn't enough for her but it was time to feed DS so I had to get home. I think I will go back to telling her she has to nap or have quiet time since she is having so many tantrums but go with the flow like you said and if she doesn't nap then put her to bed early. Her normal bedtime is usually 8pm so if there is no nap I will try 6:30pm and see what happens. Last night she fell asleep at 5pm as I was making supper. DH accidently woke her up when he went to get her to have supper (he didn't know she was sleeping in her chair). She freaked out for about 15 minutes and then crawled into bed with all her clothes on and went to sleep!!! It was 6pm!! I told DH to leave her there as I thought there is no way that I'm waking her up again! Anyway, she woke at 3am because she wet through her diaper. I got up at that point and got her into her jammies and fresh diaper. She went right back to sleep and didn't wake up again until 8am! This no napping business is really getting to us! I did try taking her to sleep with me for a nap but she just won't lay down. Just wants to jump around and be silly. Then I tried laying with her in her bed... she just wouldn't stop talking even after an hour!! I give up! So back to napping solo in her own room by herself. I guess that is all she has ever known anyway. Thanks for your input. It is nice to write it all down sometimes just to get a better look at the situation. Will keep you posted on our progress.

Thanks Deb for your post. It just came in as I finished typing the post above. I will have to try to make the time change work for us. I never even thought of that. I think the part that bothers me about sending her for a nap is that I never know how long to leave her in her room before bringing her out again if she doesn't sleep. If I put her in and she is not sleeping after an hour should I just give it up for that day? I know quiet time alone won't hurt her but I don't want to neglect her either by leaving her too long all alone.

[deb]

An hour worked out great for us here, partly because that's how long I personally needed to re-charge after a morning with an intense spirited touchy child, and partly because that's howlong the CD's lasted. Itjust kind of became the default here. You might find that  longer or shorter may work better for you.

I'd say if she's not sleeping after an hour, you might want to go ahead and bring her out, bearing in mind that keeping things low-key and/or lost of physical exercise (running outside, a trip to an indoor pool, running around a mall) might help. (Heck, you can do those things even if she DOES nap! I learned not to push it or wait too long as I did NOT want anyone napping past 3:30PM here!!!!

[Layla]

Poor thing... I know what its like to want to protect the other child's afternoon nap. That was part of the reason I decided to let Isabella veg out on the couch with a video on as for the last week (today being an exception) she was more interested in poking my face, singing songs & jumping up & down on my bed rather than letting me read her a book & get her relaxed enough to take a nap (all that partying was waking Jasmine up from that 1 precious nap she takes).

Isabella was definitely out of sorts today as I mentioned earlier we had a meltdown at 7.30am over the bandaid... she fell asleep rather early compared to what she has been doing recently (12pm rather than 1pm) and she also asked for bed at 6pm & after a few books & songs she was fast asleep by 7:05pm. I just hope that doesn't mean a 5am start.... but we'll see tomorrow morning. I know she can do 12hrs on the days she doesn't nap but today she did so I am hoping she will be able to do 11hrs tonight . She doesn't have any of her molars though so maybe she is also teething .

And wow about your DD sleeping from 5pm until 8am.... she must have really needed it!!!

With how long to try for a nap.....if mine is not asleep by say 1pm then I pretty much give up also... otherwise she falls asleep too late, bedtime is even later & she still wakes up at 6am so overall she will be exhausted by the next morning as she gets less than 10.5hrs at night. So thats the rule of thumb here.... and if she does fall asleep as late as 1pm then she still gets to wake before 2pm or right at 2pm which doesn't push bedtime too late

[cookie cookie]

Well, here's what happened. She did 12 hours overnight with one night waking at midnight. She woke at 7:30am. I tried around 12:30-1pm to get her into her room to read books to wind down for a nap but she flat out refused. I waited then until 2pm. She willingly came with me then and we read four books. I left her room at 2:30pm and when I checked on her at 2:45pm she was sound asleep. Now I'm confused whether I should wake her by 4pm or just leave her to wake on her own??? If I wake her I know I'll be faced with another meltdown but if I leave her I know it will mean a 9-9:30pm bedtime. I might just leave her to wake on her own and be firm with tucking her in tonight and leaving her room by 8-8:30 (which is her normal bedtime) and see what happens with that. Worse case scenario is that she'll keep me there until 9-9:30! Anyway, we'll see what happens. I'm just glad she is asleep right now so that she won't be melting down tonight on me! Deb, I agree that if she isn't asleep by 3:30pm I will try to keep her up and tuck her in super early instead. Layla, Sydnee sounds a lot like Isabella... she will sleep 12 hours on days with no nap and about 10-11 if she has one. Sydnee also doesn't have any of her molars yet either so that will be a new problem when that starts! Thanks for your replies and I'll let you know what bedtime brings later tonight.

[cookie cookie]

Okay, here's how it all played out. She fell asleep for her nap at 2:45pm. I decided to do a test and see how long she would sleep and did not wake her. She woke up at 6:15pm!!! I was seriously scared of what the evening would bring me. Luckily DS was sound asleep at 7:30pm so I had the whole evening to be just with DD. Anyway, she woke up in the best mood that I've seen in a while. She was happy and cooperative. She gobbled up supper like it was the best in the world (it was just spaghetti...LOL ). Then I was unsure what time to try bedtime but since I said earlier that I was going to stick to her normal bedtime I aimed for 8:30pm. Well, she had a small tantrum when we had to turn the tv off and start her bedtime routine but it was very mild compared to the meltdowns she was having with no naps. It only lasted about three minutes and wasn't very loud and there were no tears. She then cooperated pretty well with the normal bedtime routine, even peed on the potty which she hasn't done much of since we dropped her nap so I was really happy abou that! We brushed her teeth, read some books, sang a lullaby and I tucked her in. The stalling part came next but it was very minimal. She had me find her two favourite bunnies and her favourite kitty to snuggle with and get her a drink of water and then I left. It was 9:30pm when I walked out and I haven't heard a peep out of her yet. I think she's asleep but it's still to early to check just in case she isn't  but I really think she is as I can't hear anything over her monitor. So, although it was a late bedtime it was a fairly smooth one. And I'm thinking to myself that if she can go to sleep at 9:30pm after sleeping until 6:15pm this afternoon then there should be no reason why she shouldn't be in bed by 8:30pm if she sleeps most naps until 5pm like she usually does if I don't wake her. I always think she needs to wake up by 3:30 or 4pm to preserve bedtime but this proves to me that maybe that isn't necessarily the case. So, I'm going to keep testing all this week and see what happens. She always seems to want to nap around 2:30-3pm until suppertime so I'm going to let her but start her routine early enough to walk out by 8:30pm. Before I didn't stick to her bedtime because I thought she wouldn't be tired enough but maybe 3 or 3 1/2 hours after waking from nap is the right time for her to go to bed. It was tonight! Wish me luck and I'll keep you posted over the next few days. Thanks for listening as it always helps to think clearer!

[Layla]

Lol... that sounds great. It sounds like she's catching up big time!!!

With us.... managed to get her to lay down & she fell asleep at 12:45pm & will hopefully wake up before 2pm as with us it does seem to make a difference how late the nap finishes & if any later than 2pm I have noticed her falling asleep as late as 8pm (well late in my opinion as she wakes at 6am & any less than 10ish hrs at night a few days in a row & she's miss grumpy )

Keep me posted on how you go!

[cookie cookie]

Yes, I agree... any less than 10 hours at night here turns her into a terror too!! I was so thankful for her long nap today. I think she is catching up on all the sleep she's been missing out on lately. I don't know if she will nap every day but I'm going to start to offer it again everyday and leave it up to her. Hopefully she won't resist. Will keep you posted.

[cookie cookie]

Well, apparently DD has caught up on all her sleep because it was back to no napping again today. She woke up this morning at 7:20am so I planned to have her in her room for quiet book time by 2pm then a nap. Well, she wasn't the least bit sleepy and she let me know it. I actually agreed that she didn't seem sleepy or grumpy then. So I gave up and let her play planning on an early bedtime. Well, we had a really early supper at 4pm so she would be ready to go to bed at the slightest look of crankiness. But instead of getting cranky she just got wound up and wanted to play and jump around. I told her to try to calm down as it was almost bedtime but she was beyond by this point and it was only 6pm. So I then tried to get her to brush her teeth and read books then but she refused. She started to brush her teeth with me but then just goofed around and played silly and wouldn't let me brush. I got frustrated and put the toothbrush away (when she doesn't have a nap we can never get those teeth brushed and it's driving me insane!!) Then she wouldn't come to read books either so I gave up and let her play around while I got DS ready for his bedtime. DS was tucked in and sound asleep by 7pm so then I went back to DD to try again. Now she was still acting up and flying around but happy, just really wound up.... from being overtired I know but I'm not sure why she wouldn't go to bed at 6pm if she was getting tired then. She was normal up until 6pm! Anyway, I gave her a few warnings that we were going to bed. She kept saying no so finally I picked her up and took her to her room. She threw a fit. I told her if she didn't pick a book we wouldn't be reading any. She wouldn't so I got up to leave. She started to cry again so I told her again. Then she would pick a book then say she didn't want that one. She'd tell me to pick and then she'd say she didn't want that one. This went on a few more times until I got up to leave again. She then started to throw a fit again. I kept myself as calm as possible and tried to remember that she was only acting this way because she was overtired. So finally she agreed on a book. We read three and I told her that was the limit before we started. Of course when we finished she wanted another one. I told her to hop into her bed and I'd read a last one there. Well, she still goofed around and tossed and went from one end of the bed to another. I'd start to read the book and she'd say she didn't want it. I'd put it down and she would flip out because she did want it.  Well, somehow I kept calm and we finally made it through that book and then I kissed her and said goodnight. It was 7:45pm and she went to sleep right away. Can anybody figure out what is going on with this child???!!!! I'm praying for a nap tomorrow as it's Halloween and it will likely be a later than normal bedtime. I'm really afraid of what will happen then if she doesn't nap. Does anyone see what I should have done differently today? Thanks!

[Layla]

She probably got 2nd wind around 6pm & was unable to get to sleep for another hour or so.

[nathan_smom]

I dont know if this will help or not...
I was having similar problems with my DS, but he was/is younger, just over 2 years old.
Finally what helped, was a MUCH earlier nap time. His usual was 1-1:30 and I had him upstairs ready for sleep by noon. This lasted for a little over a week, then we gradually moved it back up closer to 1pm.
again, dont know if this will help. I didnt think he could possibly be tired by noon, but obviuosly he was, and by his usual nap time he was so overtired, he couldnt sleep.
Good luck, I know how important a good nap is for your child and for YOU!!

[cookie cookie]

Layla, I think you're right... she got her second wind right around then and I didn't get her to bed before it happened. Thanks Robin for your reply. I did try bumping nap time earlier yesterday but that didn't work out either. She still didn't nap yesterday or today! I am trying my best to wind her down for her nap but she just does not want to sleep. Maybe she really doesn't need to most days??!! Last night after trick or treating she sampled some candy then she let me get her ready for bed with no trouble at all and was sound asleep by 8pm. Tonight DS needed his bottle of milk at 7pm and couldn't wait and she couldn't wait either. She already had her jammies on and so she hopped into bed by herself... didn't even wait for me... and she went to sleep!! That was easy! This certainly is hard to figure out but I can't force her to sleep in the afternoons so I guess I'll just keep offering the nap and let her decide. At least she didn't battle with me the last two nights. She still won't brush her teeth though and it only happens on nights where she didn't nap that day. That is frustrating but I can't force her to let me brush her teeth either! Maybe this is all just a phase and the nap will come back... or maybe she's just growing up to fast!

[Layla]

we also have problems with brushing teeth & putting on nappy & pj's & it all has to do with overtiredness. With teeth... I give her my toothbrush so she can brush my teeth & she will automatically open her mouth & I know its not going to be perfect teeth brushing but I try to brush as much as I can before she decides she's had enough....