Thats it, im giving up on Naps and Easy

[*Jo*]

Hi ladies, thanks for your support, it means alot to be able to come on here and know that im not alone.

Caleb is on Omeprazole for his reflux, and pepti junior for his milk protein intolerance. Im giving him infant gaviscon until he readjusts to his formula again. We went for an hour drive and he wouldnt fall asleep, just as we drove up the driveway he fell asleep!!!! i couldnt believe it but of course i had to wake him up to bring him, gave him some more bottle and just put him to sleep now for probably another 45mins.

The other day i was able to extend one of his naps for 2.5 hours, it was bliss! but then he refused a catnap in the afternoon and was up for 3.5 hours so it felt a bit like a waste

Even if i do have a happy short napper, wont it affect his nightsleep if hes only going to be getting roughly 3 hours sleep during hte day?? I know that after today that he will be way OT now. If its alright for him to have short naps and not have it affect his night sleep then im ok with that, i can handle that but its when it disrupts his night sleep that it really stresses me out because i know it all adds up over time

[*Jo*]

Ok, so ive had a thought....

He always sleeps really well after his bedtime bath where he kicks and splashes like a madman, is it possible that by not playing with him heaps etc that hes got all this stored energy and making it hard for him to fall asleep cos he wants to expell it all??

So i may be grasping at straws but im just wondering cos i do my utmost to make sure hes not overstimulated etc during A times (espcecially with his reflux) but maybe i should just let him go for it and just play with him heaps instead of trying to always keep it quite low key and then about 20mins before bedtime start really quietening down before his actual wind down?

[mokey_cat]

Im so sorry you are having such a hard time!!!  It is a very difficult age and I could have written your post when my LO was the same age!!  Just to give you hope, my Lo took her 1st long nap since she was 10 weeks when she was 4 months and 1 weeks old!!  I honestly think it is a phase that most babies go through and they learn to go past the 45 mins on their own.  Let me tell you, I was SOOOOO sick of extending naps and spending all my days in her room trying to get her to sleep, I used to cry a LOT.  But is does get easier.  DD is now 6 months and apart from a week or so of short naps again, she has been having 1.5 hour naps from about 4.5 months so I am sure your LO will get there too.  I will say that the transition to 4 hour EASY helped.  DD is able to handle very longs A's for her age so I think the increase in A time helped her to sleep better.  If he is happy all of his A time following a short nap, is it possible that he too needs more A time?  Its just an idea  .

But just know that a lot of us have been there and I promise it does get better.  When I got really down about it, I would spend a day doing anything to get her to sleep (let her sleep with me, rock her to sleep, go in the car etc) and I found I enjoyed that a lot more as sometimes it feels like I was never enjoying spending time with her.  But these days of APOP were always lovely  .

Good luck honey, I hope it gets better soon.

Laura
X

[*Jo*]

Thanks Laura, i started bringing him into bed with me as that seemed to work once or twice but has started not working again,  but it was lovely to hold him close to me then

Well tonight for the first time EVER he will not go to sleep after his bath and bottle, i feel like its hitting its peak today, weve never had this issue before, he just WONT stop crying and fall asleep, we are trying everything. Im feeling so hopeless about this whole situation.
Whats worse is that we have visitors and i cant spend any time with them, im constantly trying to put him to bed and telling my visitors to stop making noises (stop laughing and talking etc) and just when i thought i would get some time with them tonight its just not happening

[*Liz*]

Huge (((hugs))) sounds like you and your little man are having such a bad time.

Perhaps a little break from EASY - some APOPing and 'going with the flow' might actually help? I did this for about a month when my lo was 3-4 months and when I came back to it it was actually sooooo much easier. I think at 5 mths be was just more 'ready' for sleep training.

And I second what others have said - it really IS so much easier with a 6 mth old.

Sounds like a bit of an OT loop in a very good natured baby (I have one of them too and they can be so mard to interpret as they are such happy souls). It will end though - it always does.

More ((Hugs)).

[*Jo*]

Oh my gosh, i think i *MAY* have found out half of the problem. I was just cleaning his DR Browns teats when i saw that two of them are a level 3 teat made for a 6 month old baby, i never ordered these so they must have been a mistake when i ordered level 2 teats! they come in a pack of three and i have two level 3's and one level 2 so i think it was a packaging mistake at their end, anyway, if hes been drinking a level 3 teat that will explain the sudden increase in Major wind issues we have been having and therefore major sleep issues due to wind problems. I noticed he was gulping heaps of air whilst feeding at times and even at his DF which had never happened before

Im hoping this is what it is because then i can solve it! i have removed the level 3 teats and im going to complain to the supplier i ordered them through. Im really really hoping this is what has been causing all these problems and its not just that im going insane for no reason

[*Liz*]

Fingers crossed for a better day hun  .

[saltyqueen]

I would abandon the EASY part and just focus on the sleep. I finally decided that I was going to feed my LO around her sleep schedule. So if that means feeding her 2.5 hours after her last feed, then so be it. The sleep is more important.

I also think that your loved one is still really young, so things could change dramatically at any point. I know how you feel, though. I have been fighting for good naps for weeks & months. It's incredibly frustrating.

[gmbsmom]

I could write your post word for word except my 8 week old doesnt sleep well at night either now. He also has colic     So my textbook baby has quickly turned into a grumpy baby with a grumpy, stressed out mom. All we can do is hang in there and be grateful that we even have our babies as some people are not able. I can only hope that it will get better with time as it cant get any worse...big hugs!

[Mashi]

Hey, it's like my son has some long lost identical (but younger!) twin out there!  And you, you sound like ME!  (Mashi....are you there? Huh?!) LOL

Honestly, truly, if you had the time or inclination you could read through and find my posts from last autumn that is the same as yours.  My posts from Sept, Oct, Nov, Dec.....etc.

And NOW, well, now I have a lovely little boy who sleeps!  You will get one too, and six months down the road YOU will be writing this post for another mom telling her your story, I promise!

One thing that you said really jumped out at me - you asked if maybe you are not playing with him enough to get him asleep for a good nap.  I don't have a definite answer on that one, but over the past months DH and I have talked about all of those hard months when DS wouldn't sleep, and we really do believe that it was undertired and not overtired.  I was so terrified of OT - because we went through OT torture from birth to 3 months - that I never even thought UT was a possibility.  Then randomly I would get these days where he WOULD nap (because I sat there and patted for 90 minutes...) and then I would be OBSESSED with the next day playing out EXACTLY the same to make him sleep. (And more often than not, he wouldn't....)

If you suspect UT is your problem, then I would look at it from a few angles and see what is happening -- is he getting the "right" amount of A time but not enough physical stimulation for his body to be tired, but he is sleepy because he's been awake? Or, is he getting too short of an A time, but he is tired enough to recharge because he's getting to physically or mentally stimulated?  Only you will know that, and maybe you will have to try it a couple of different ways to see.  Are you putting him down because he seems sleepy, but in reality he's bored and needs a change? My LO still yawns out of boredom, and I realise that for so many months I put him in bed at that first bored yawn and then I would cry when he slept only 45 minutes! I was soooo terrified of OT! 

My LO never slept in his stroller either. But for sanity, I kept walking anyway.  I needed the fresh air and to not have to "deal" with him, just push him.  And then one day he went past that 45 minute mark!  Then more often than not he would wake, but I could get him back to sleep!

I also think you may be trying too much by taking the dummy away as well. When DS was about 4 months we went through about 3 nights in a row where I was up to replug something absurd like 30 times in my 8 hours "sleep" (8 hours of sleep, ROTFLMAO!) So I decided that was it for the dummies. DS cried his eyes out, screamed his head off from wake up in the morning until 3 hours after his bedtime. Screamed.  So we caved and gave him his dummy back      It's his best mate, still is.  Not going to have me a 5 year old sucking a dummy, but not willing to take such a comfort item from such a little baby.  Maybe you can let him have it for another while and try breaking the swaddle instead? Start with one arm out, and yes, you will wake in the night when he realises he has his arm out, but it will only take 3 or 4 days for him to get used to it....most likely.  Then we got a lovey for DS that has velcro paws and you hook the dummy in there so he can find his own dummy at night.   As DS gets older, the actual lovey is becoming more important to him and he will happily play with that and not need or want the dummy as much, so it's sort of a self weaning.

Hmm what else did we do........... thinking.....   but can't remember.  It started getting better for me in early February, so that was when DS would have been 6.5 months.  I lost a lot of friendships in those 6 months, as my friends all have LOs the same age as mine and they have very different ideas (one who randomly forgets to feed her 6 month old, one who believes babies don't need naps, etc etc) and they couldn't deal with me turning down offers to go to the pub for lunch on a weekday with the babies...     By the time out LOs were 7 - 8 months old they were both a total wreck because their wing-it ways had gotten them into horrible messes with their LOs and they were now grumbling about me and my 2 x 1.5hour naps and 12 hour night.      DH and I were talking last night and I told him that in the strangest weirdest way, I am GLAD I went through what I did for all of those napless months because I appreciate the naps now, and also because I feel some sense of accomplishment.  Totally nutso, but, well, I've never claimed to be sane!!!

Can't think of anything else off of the top of my head, but hang in there.  Don't feel the need to stick to EVERYTHING with easy, do the parts you think you can handle, choose one or two things that are most important to you (for me it was attemping to get naps and not leaving LO to cry, for instance, everything else went out the window!) and when those things work, add something else.

Hugs and will come back if I think of anything more.

[charmie]

Been there too hun and I really feel for you.  Why don't you take a break from sleep training for a couple of days?  Get out, meet other mums, go shopping.  He might even get some sleep in his pushchair or car seat.  I'm sure you would feel much much better.  The stimulation thing might also be a good thought.  It's worth a try for sure


xxx
charm

[*Jo*]

Oh mashi what a wonderful and encouraging post you have given me! I read it with such ferver

We had a small breakthrough yesterday. I wasnt going to go to church thinking i really needed to stay at home with him etc but thought "stuff it, i need to get out, if hes not gonna sleep at home then i may as well be out doing something i enjoy!" well, we got to church and i put him in his stroller, went for a walk outside for 10 mins and he fell asleep! then he slept for an hour and a half!!!! he kind of stirred at 45mins but i just pushed the stroller again for another 10 mins and he went back to sleep. I couldnt believe it, he never sleeps at church so i was thrilled.

He seems to be a little better with his wind problem but still very gassy, im hoping this will clear up soon as it is waking him up in the night and when he wakes up he then wants a feed. Also he got out of his swaddle twice last night and he was nearly asleep but the only thing stopping him from falling completely asleep was the fact his arms were out, i will be very glad when we have weaned the swaddle. I have the miracle blanket and i have sewn velcro on it and most times he doesnt get out of it but it seems he had gained the art of defying the impossible now

[romyluisa]

hi ladies
isn't it amazing that it's like someone is watching exactly what is happening to us..   
Calebsmum, you're sooo not alone!!


i'm sitting here, with ds (6wo) - he's currently having his 8.30-9pm feed.... at 8pm. As he decided that his cot was not for him. Again.  He's pretty much been awake since noon.. well no, that's not quite right. i got him up at around 11.30ish am, and we had b'fast.  1.00pm, we started to wind down, as he was acting very tired. 1.40 he was asleep. or so i thought.
luckily, i have my mum staying with us from OS, so i am very lucky to have an extra set of hands.  mind you, she has her's full with our DD (4yo, who's still getting used to "sharing" mummy around).
Anyway,back to today: 1.40pm, DS pretending to be asleep.
DS & i take opportunity to escape, and get out to get needed household supplies.
5 mins after leaving, DS puts his plan into action, setting out to wreck Nana's head.
Starts with the wriggles, grunting, followed by a Houdini impression - and ending, as always, with crying.
Nana (under strict instruction to use Shush-Pat, and only Soother as last resort), moves in.
DS has her caught in his snare now....
Eyes spring open once he's picked up. No going back to sleep now. After about 5mins of crying, he does start to quieten down, and even pretends to be sleepy again on the compfy shoulder he's resting against.
But don't even think about putting him back down in that cot.  it just wont happen, and is like a merry-go-round routine.
By the time myself & DD have returned (3 hours later), Nana & DS have just finished the 3.30pm feed; after being awake (a few dozes on the shoulder) pretty much the whole time.
I take over, and he continues to play his game of "i'm not resting in any bed" - until he starts rooting around for more food at 5.30pm.
I watch my own dinner go cold, as i feed him.  We now have three pairs of hands on-deck, as DH is home.
At 7.00pm, DH has gotten the LO settled as much as possible, and off to bed they go.  (But I know, they'll be back!)
7.30pm, half-time substitution with DH, i'm upstairs doing the Shush-Pat.
With a bit of Soother intervention, we get about 20mins of "sleep" out of him.
8.00pm, i'm sitting here happily reading all the above posts when DH & DS walk into the room.  "He's hungry"
Hopeing to get to about 8.30pm-9pm before the next feed - i'm slightly reluctant; but what can you do, if they're hungry; feed'em.
So, i started writing this post with DS on my lap - pretending to eat.
I've been here for nearly an hour now - typing with one hand, as the other tries to balance the bottle.  He's finally finished, a couple of little burps, and up over my shoulder (he's pretending to sleep now).

9.27pm. i've just taken LO upstairs.  Frantically typing before he wakes up.  Hopefully he won't - and past experience, he'll be asleep now until his dreamfeed at about 11.30pm.
FINGERS CROSSED!!

Like yourself, Calebsmummy, night-times are pretty good.  it's the day that are VERY hard. 
My mum keeps telling me that i'm very patient. I suppose i am. I know that he'll get through this.  As long as we all can too - that's the key isn't it!?
My DS is also a VERY VERY VERY winding baby.  We've got him on Goats milk formula - for his little tum.  I've not interveened with any meds at this stage (DH is very reluctant to go there).  He was VERY small at birth - 4lbs10oz; but only a week early (i was induced because of his weight). 
He's feeding like mad - which DH puts down to trying to catch up to all his same-age counterparts. He takes about 150mls per feed.
At the moment, my biggest concern is the wind, grunting, groaning, burps & farts.  He wriggles & grunts/groans so much in his sleep that he wakes us up (himself, DH & I, all in the same room).

I'm very determined to try & stick to the EASY/Shush-Pat route. Having had our DD keep us pacing the floor for hours when she was little - i'm REALLY NOT wanting to go there again.
I found Mushi's post very good.  I'm definitely going to test out the Under-tired/Over-tired theory.  Perhaps we are guilty of the UT in our house...

Calebsmummy; try & stick with some part of the plan.  It will definitely help you all!  Keep trying to get out & about for your own sanity too.  Even if he's awake, at least being in the "normal world" surrounded by other humans will make you feel better.  Hopefully you'll know that we're all out there too - so don't be embarressed or worried about having a crying baby with you; we all understand!!
And when all else fails - just look in that cot and check out that gorgeous little bundle that you bought into the world. 

Isn't he brilliant!?

**HUGS**

[Abbyssleepymommy]

Hey sounds like maybe you have hit the nail on the head with the UT being his trouble!! Good luck with straightening this one out!
It will take 14 days for the other formula to get completely out of his system. So just keep counting down the days!!! Big HUGS!!!!

[*Jo*]

Oh Romyluisa, what a great post, thank you for sharing I did try the UT/OT thing yesterday and it seemed to work. when it was A time we played like crazy people, he laughed and squealed etc and had lots of fun burning energy, then his second A time i accidentally let him go 2 hours awake (not watching the time properly) and he SLEPT 2 HOURS AND 40 MINUTES!!! with no intervention at all, he just slept. i dont usually let him go longer than 2.5 hours but i was letting him catch up on a little sleep.
Then last night he woke twice and settled himself back to sleep and woke again at 5.30am and i didnt have the patience to try and put him back to sleep with patting etc so just brought him back to bed with me and he slept till 7.15.

One question i do have though is that the last nap of the day seems to be our worst, sometimes he doesnt even have one and we have to bring bedtime forward by an hour or so and the last few nights when this has happened he has woken up at 10pm before i can even get to his 10.30pm DF. He never used to wake before the DF, is this due to OT before going to bed?