Evening Feed Leading to NW/EW?

[JuJuLuv]

Hi Ladies!

I received from advice from Jinx on the EASY board to post here about a particular issue I'm having with my 8mo DS. Here is a little excerpt from my latest post:

Lately, we’ve been having some NW happening again  This might be teeth related (I hope) but wondering if there is something else I can do to try and help the situation.

EVERY night he wakes somewhere between 9-11:30 and is inconsolable until I feed him. Once he is fed, he’s out peacefully. I don’t think he needs to eat so I’ve been doing all I can to get him back to sleep without feeding him. But, after 30-60 mins of screaming, crying, crocodile tears and holding and rocking him and offering water and turning on the lights, offering the paci, etc and NOTHING works, I give him the boob and all is right with the world. He seems to take full feeds though….any possibility it’s a growth spurt? He is 8 months and is right on the cusp of crawling.

I was tapering back the DFs and then felt they were becoming disruptive so I stopped them entirely and figured I’d feed him if after trying to get him back to sleep didn’t work. I still end up doing a feed between 9-11:30 – he just seems to dictate it rather than me. There is the rare occasion he’s slept through but I can count those on one hand. I talked with my therapist about this and she said why don’t you, for a week, instead of waiting it out with all the drama to feed, when he wakes and won’t resettle within a few mins, feed him. Babies need to suckle and perhaps he’s in pain from his teeth, or needs comfort for the developmental stuff going on or a growth spurt and might not be food related at all….at any rate, she thought that was worth a shot. Maybe it would make me less stressed and him more quickly comforted and all of us getting a bit more sleep. BUT, is this AP? Will I regret it later? Or am I not giving my DS enough credit that perhaps it’s just a temporary phase and he won’t depend on it? Am I neurotic or what? Lol.

Could still feeding him this one time between 9-11:30 be lending to the night wakes thought?? In the past week, we’ve had 5 of the 7 nights with wakeful periods and some nights 2x. We’ve had 3 between 4-5am, 1 at 1:00am, 2 at 12:30am and 1 at 3:30am. Only 2 were quick resettles and the others he was awake for 1-2.5 hours which is brutal at these hours. I tend not to feed at these times but have a few times out of pure exhaustion. After the NW, he generally wakes for the AM between 6-7am. As they happen at all different times, could it be a growth spurt??

I’m yet again at a loss of what to do as I felt like we made some good progress with eliminating the NW and EW and now we’re getting a bit more. Any ideas or thoughts?

I would really appreciate any insight anyone has as I tend to overthink these things

Thanks!

[~ Vik ~]

Hi!  It's hard to guess about the nws without seeing your EASY, especially since those early evening (before midnight) nws can mean OT, but if you've been working with Sarah then I will assume that it's not routine related and see if I can help  

I want to preface all of this too by saying that I never actively dropped any night feeds except the dream feed - I know many moms have actively tried to stop feeding at night using various methods, but that wasn't for me.  I feel that STTN is a milestone to be reached just like any other (rolling, sitting, walking) and that babies will do it when they are ready - just MHO.  That doesn't mean that I fed Dylan every time he woke up though...  If he was teething I gave pain meds, made sure room temperature was right, etc.  but ultimately if I had covered those bases and he woke up, then I assumed hunger and fed him.  I actively dropped the dream feed around 9mo, and Dylan dropped the last night feed on his own at just over 1yo.  Other than illness or teething, he has STTN ever since.

So, that first nw.  As you can probably already guess...  If you have given pain meds for teething, ensured that he is comfortable (temperature, no diaper pinching, not tangled in blankets, etc.), and tried to resettle another way and it's not working, then I would (and did!) feed.  Especially if he is taking a full feed - that to me is not an "I need the boob for comfort/as a prop" kind of thing, kwim?  To me, it's not really AP...  AP would be relying on bfing to get him to sleep on a regular basis (naps and nws).  Some may disagree though, and hopefully some other moms will jump on with their perspectives too

Now, could that feed be causing other nws?  Maybe - does he wake up with gas?  Or is his diaper really soaked?  Either of those could cause discomfort and wake him.  Or it could be teeth (meds wearing off), too cold (kicked off blanket), or the like.  Could be hunger.  Does he take a full feed if you feed him again?  If he's awake for a while, what's his demeanor like?  Happy and ready to play or fussy and cranky?  What would happen if you just left him to it?  When I say that Dylan STTN, I really mean that I never had to go to him.  Sometimes I would hear him shift or cough and wake up over the monitor, whine or chat for a bit, then go back off to sleep.  If he started properly crying I would go to him, but otherwise I left him to it.

Here's a link that I found helpful when trying to minimize night wakings:  http://www.kellymom.com/bf/weaning/weaning-night.html

Hope something in here is helpful!

[JuJuLuv]

Hi Vikki!

Thanks so much for taking the time to read and respond to my post. I was concerned that offering food after he went to bed was contributing to the issue. The general consensus from here and other ladies in my life is that the feeds shouldn’t be negatively impacting/disrupting his sleep. He’s waking on his own and if after trying the usual tricks, he won’t settle, it seems reasonable that hunger could play a role and especially when he doesn’t just take a suck or two and nod off. He doesn’t wake at the same time every night/morning and there are times when I can get him back to sleep without offering food so I think I’m doing the right thing.

I really like your thought about STTN being a milestone to be reached. I was talking with DH and we both agree that perhaps we have been having some unrealistic expectations – mostly fueled by being sleep deprived for 8 months and really craving some consistent solid sleep runs.

When he does have EW, his diaper is usually pretty saturated. If he fully wakes and is upset, we typically change him, feed him and then put him back down so that he isn’t super soaked and waking up at 3am because of it. Sometimes it still happens and sometimes he poops which really causes a wake up in the wee hours. He typically doesn’t have gas – he did early on but I’m on a crazy elimination diet and since then, he’s been much better. I’ve been pretty cautious with his solids as well, so far so good. I do believe teeth have been a major contributor and continue to be so. We’ve played around a bit with temperature in his room as well as what he wears to bed. He sleeps in a sleep sack so thankfully that hasn’t caused any binding issues yet – though he is an active sleeper and can get into some pretty interesting positions in the crib.

When he does wake for what used to be the dreamfeed time, he wakes pretty upset and cranky right away – when we try to resettle him (helping him back on his side, popping the paci back in and giving him his lovey) he fights being put on his side and pushes our hands away that are trying to give him the binky and then yells and cries. I pop him on the boob which immediately quiets him, he feeds for a normal amount of time and then is out and tends to be so for a good 4-7 hours before he wakes again. If he wakes around the 3-5am time, I try my best not to feed him but if after 30-40 mins my efforts don’t work, I tend to feed him. When he’s up at this time, he typically tries to put himself back to sleep – lays there pretty quietly while I rub his back but if after 30 or so mins of not being able to get back to sleep, he gets upset and frustrated. Generally if I feed him, he nods off pretty easily though there are times when that hasn’t worked.

In the past 2 nights, I’ve really tried to wait it out a bit before going to him. Before, I would hear him wake or stirring and go in there to try and catch it before he fully woke. After reading your post, I thought about trying a different approach and not go in until he was crying or really complaining. He has woken up around 3-3:30 the past two nights or rather mornings and as he wasn’t crying, I didn’t go in. He actually put himself back to sleep. It took some time but he did it so that’s encouraging.

What you had to say was helpful and if you can think of anything else after reading my responses above, would love to hear it!

Thanks!
Daneen

[~ Vik ~]

Sounds like you have some smart ladies in your life!!   And it really does sound like you and your DH are doing the right things - you're trying to settle in other ways and making sure that needs are met, but you know when hunger is a factor and you feed accordingly.  I definitely would keep waiting a bit before going to him, it sounds like you've already had some success!  Like you mentioned, I always went to Dylan if he was crying, but if he was just shifting/whining/fussing a bit I left him to it and he did often go back to sleep on his own   It's a great feeling when you realize that those independent sleep skills that you're teaching are paying off!