18 month old sleep training ADVICE NEEDED! We have some bad habits...

[kurbsky]

Hi there - - ANY advice really really welcome/needed!
My second chid is now 18 months.  WIth the first, we did controlled crying at about 8 months, it worked really well, he's a great sleeper etc.
THe second one started well, slept through from early on, then he got some recurrent ear infections and that began to break up the nights.  When they were better we had another good sleep phase - he would cry for about 5 seconds then drop off, would wake occasionally in the night then drop off agian himseld.  At some point we did controlled crying - its all a blur and I can't remember when.

This summer about 4 months ago he stopped fallling asleep by himself at night.  The started waking in the night.  We have found ourself at the point where we sit with him till he falls asleep, then at some point in the night (between about 12-2am) he wakes up and he can't seem to settle back to sleep even with us there - he dozes but the sleep is so light that as soon as we leave he wakes up again.  So we just put him in our bed. 

I really need this to change as I am so exhausted and so is everyone else (except the first child who sleeps blissfully through everything!)

He's too strong willed for controlled crying now, I feel like it would deestroy him or us before it worked.

Will pick up/put down work at 18 months?  who has ay advice?  I have never posted antyihtng on a forum before but I am just at my wits end and need to do something which helps him ;earn to sleep properly but doesn't really put him through an amotional trauma of crying for a whole night.

THanks in advance...

k

[jessmum46]

Big hugs, sleep deprivation is not at all fun

First up, we don't agree with CC or CIO here. No judgement at all, I'm sure you did what you thought was best for your family at the time, but Tracy Hogg (author of the BW books) believed it could damage the bond of trust between parent and child and that there is always a gentler way to teach your child to sleep better. I can post a couple of links for you to look at if you're interested, but that aside we'd love to help you

Could you post his daily routine with WU, nap and bedtime?

PUPD is for younger LOs so I suspect the best thing for you will be a type of gradual withdrawal - have a look at this : Walk In/Walk Out vs. The Gradual Withdrawal Method (HOW TO CHOOSE) (probably ignore the WIWO info for now).

Will look forward to seeing his routine when you post and helping you come up with a plan

[kurbsky]

Hello!
Thank you for replying!

So, his routine... this is hard.  He is in nursery 4 days a week so on those days it goes like this: wake up about 6.30 (but sleep is sometimes broken before then and he is ALWAYS in our bed by this time).  Breakfast about 7am.  Get dressed and I take his bro to school then drop him at nursery about 9am.  At nursery he has a sleep after lunch at about 12.30-2 - usually about that long.  THey all sleep in the same room and the workers pat them and sit with all the babies till they go to sleep.  He comes home about 5.30, we all eat together and then it is bath about 6.30/6.45.  Then they get ready for bed in our bedroom and one of us takes him upstairs to his room while his brother has stories in our room and falls asleep in there.  I get his room ready first so he has 2 small lamps on, quite low lighting.  We sit on a chair by his cot and have 1-2 little stories then I put him in his cot and turn one of the lamps off.  At this point I used to be able to just walk out but these days we have to sit by the cot - usually with head ON the bars of the cot, while he stands up, gives a few kisses, points at things, then I lie him down, say night night, he gets up, points at things, I lie him down, he does some kisses...etc - sometimes he cries a bit so I lie him down and stroke his legs through the cot bars and eventually he stops gettingup and falls asleep, I've stopped stroking him byt this point.  Usually takes about 20 mins.  But then he wakes in the night and won't fall back into a deep sleep - we have been up there hours before so recently just bring him down after about 15 mins of trying. 

SOmetimes he is teething, he still has canines coming though, and also the ear infections from some months back certainly didn't help - especially when we didn't know he had them.

When he isn't in nursery he is with us or my mum and has no set sleep time- he will fall asleep in the buggy going to the shops and then stay in there when we get home, or fall asleep in the car while we are out and sleep in there if appropriate for a bit.  It is usually post lunch unless we go out mid morning I guess he sleeps then sometimes too .. he never goes into his cot in the day. His day naps have never been consistent as I went back to university when he was 6 months, then worked, so he always just fitted around the different daycare options. 

Any help or advice will be so gladly received!  thank you

[Haribo2012]

Hi I've just moved this to toddler sleep as LO is over 12 months old

[jessmum46]

Hi, sorry it's taken me a little while to get back to you.

What time do you start trying to put him down for bed at the moment?  I wasn't sure from what you've written.  I'm guessing it's around 7/7.30?

I imagine it would be really helpful for him to have a little more daytime consistency now.  What would be feasible/practical for you?  Is sticking with the nursery set nap time of 12.30 possible? 

Do pain meds help at all when he's teething?

[kurbsky]

Hello,
yes, I suppose we start bedtime about 6.45/7 and then take him up to his room about 20 ish minutes after that.  He has an older brother and they have their bath together.

When he is genuinely teething the meds do help with the pain - he still wakes up but he is less distressed by it.

He just can't get himself off to sleep on his own any more at all, I think that's the problem.  He used to be able to and now if he wakes in the night he cries straight away, and sits or stands up and cries until we get there.  Sometimes he drops off again with a little bit of stroking but often he falls into a really fitful doze and then he doesn't properly sleep again for ages, even in our bed.  Half of me wouldn't mid him being in our bed if it meant he sletp ok but he's still thrashing around and can't settle even with us!

Yes, I imagine a consisten daytime routine would be helpful but because I am reliant on my mum in the week and she is always out and about with him it is hard.  But perhaps we could at least do it properly at the weekends - you mean he should be napping in his cot?

Thank you

[jessmum46]

Could your mum not commit to be in for one nap, at least most days?  Really I think that's not a lot to ask, toddlers do need to sleep  or if that's just never going to happen, could she at least manage to try to get him to sleep at a consistent time instead of randomly dropping off whenever? So if she needs to be out, time the car journey or buggy ride for naptime?  Although personally I would feel sleeping in a cot was more restful, I do understand that's not always practical.  I do think sleeping at the same time each day is helpful at this age though and makes it easier to see if there are other issues at play like a reliance on you for sleeping.

Can you get him to bed earlier on days he doesn't nap so well?

What did you think about the idea of gradual withdrawal? WIWO is also a possibility I guess if he has been an independent sleeper in the past. What are your thoughts?

[kurbsky]

I've just done the personality quiz and he's come out 50% textbook 50% spirited which seems about right! 

Our plan is to move him into the room which is currently our study and make that his bedroom so he isn't sharing with his brother any more and also is on the same level as us (they are at the top of the house at the moment)... That would then make it easier to do WI/WO, which is the one I think might work better, especially seeing as how he used to be able to go to sleep.

How long do you think you should give it though?  If he is getting really worked up should we change tack and do the other one?

Also yes I will see what mum thinks about the nap timings..

THank you very much for your help

[jessmum46]

I think with a toddler you need to expect a lot (A LOT) of resistance and give it at least a week before deciding it's not working.  The key is absolutely to see it through - don't do WIWO for two hours then give in and sit with him, that makes it all pointless and will make it even harder the next time you try. Can you start on a Friday so there might be a chance to catch up over the weekend?

[KookyK]

I've just started WIWO after months of sitting by my LOs cot or gradually retreating and getting to the door (before something eg illness led to me back at his cot!). It's had a v quick and amazing effect on him. I think me being so near previously led my DS to constantly waking to check I was still there. With walk in walk out he knows I'm not there at the point he falls asleep, although he knows he's not abandoned and ill reassure him if he needs me. My DS is 14 months.