11 week old only sleeping a max of 1.5 hrs after midnight help needed please!!!

[annakenrick]

Hello this is my first time using the forum and  I hope someone may be able to help!!

Our 11 week old boy, second child,  is waking up after 45mins or sometimes an 1.5 after nighttime feeds. He goes down at 7 no bother and usuallydrowsy/awake. We are trying to establish a dream feed but most nights he wakes up around 10 anyway. He sleeps ok from 7-10! He then wakes up around 12 and then after we get him down, which can take 15 mins,  he does another 45 mins and then wants another feed around 1am and then it starts all over again with another feed around 4am. On bad nights he wakes up every 45 mins! I know it's when he is sleep transitioning but we are at a loss what to do. We try shh pat , dummies, cuddles but I know we are just using props but don't know what to do!! Is he too young for any sleep techniques?
He takes around 4/5 oz at 10pm/ 1am and recently dropped to 2oz at 4am. I don't know how to get him to just sleep between feeds never mind drop a feed! He's a big boy and measures on 95 percentile for his weight. I try and get him to eat as much at his feeds during the day but sometimes he only will take 2!! He's sucks the bottles down at nights where as at the day feeds I struggle to get it down him!!  Hope someone can help as it is getting very tiring and frustrating!!
He takes his first day time nap in cot the rest are in pram or arms. Should I concentrate on them first? Is he overtired or maybe undertired? I'm at a loss as where to start solving this. I also give us around 5am and take him in with me and I know that needs to stop!
Help!!

[annakenrick]

Things aren't improving does anyone have any tips or advice as going abit mad!! I can post the routine we are in if that helps?

[jessmum46]

Yes please could you post your routine? 

I do wonder though if he is a tricky feeder in the day and that unsettled at night whether there could be something causing him difficulty/discomfort - for example pain from reflux or gas?  Does he latch well onto the bottles?  Has he been checked for tongue tie?

[annakenrick]

Hi

Thanks for your reply.
He definitely is windy and yes we do hear reflux so I think they are both not helping the situation. Apart from baby gaviscon and winding him is there anything else we could be doing to help him?
So routine, it slightly varies due to short naps but here is the general outline. Sometimes he only feeds for 5 mins, has 2 oz then is finished. Today he hasn't eaten more than 3 oz at any feed!
Wakes around 645am
E 7am- last few weeks he only takes 1 or 2 oz so I try and give him abit more about 730am but generally doesn't take it
A until 815am
S 815-9 trying to shh pat to extend naps but generally is not working. I use dummy for 10 seconds to calm him when settling but then take it out. Only time I generally use it.


E 930/10 - generally 3 or 4 oz
A If he's woken at 9 I try and get him to sleep around 1030/11 and generally take him out in pram so he can have a long nap until next feed.
S 11-1

E 1230/ 1pm-3-5oz
A 130-230
S 230-4 hopefully, sometimes on 45 mins!

E 330/4- 4/5oz
A 430-530
S 530-6 in paooose at moment as having to make dinner for 4 year old son, going to try in cot this week

615 upstairs for bath story and wind down
630 bottle- generally 4-5oz
7 sleep - goes down really well. Usually still awake or drowsy!

7 until 10/1030/11 husband gives bottle or dream feed if not woken but only take 4oz

Wakes generally  1.5 hrs -2 hrs later so we give him a cuddle then hand on chest and say shh until asleep
He sleeps for 45 mins and then it's generally between 1-2 am so we feed him, genearlly takes 4oz
Sleeps for 1.5 hrs gernally repeat cuddle, hand on chest and shh for around 15 mins then sleeps for 45 then feeds between 4-5am, only takes 2/3oz recently, then I am generally shattered so take him in bed with me if I can't get him down.

And breathe!! We have stopped using dummy at night to calm him as he can't keep it in for longer then 2 minutes. We try not to rock and just do shh pat
Or hand on chest but I generally do end up giving him a cuddle and let him stay there for 5 minutes so he settles.

Questions in my head are
Is this all cause he's overtired/ undertired?
Is a feed at 1/2 am and 4/5am common at this age still?
How long should you hold them before you put them down? Before first jolt?
On a good day he eats 23/24oz between 7 and 1030pm is this average?

Sorry for very long post. I am trying so hard to get him to eat lots and nap well during the day and I feelsnits making absolutely no difference at night. I'm getting so disheartened! We did bw routine with first born and by this point he wa staking a good dream feed and going until 3am if not later! He also slept between feeds .
I just want him to be able to go 2.5 hrs of sleep between feeds for now!!!

Thanks for your time!!
From a frustrated mum!!









1230/1

[annakenrick]

He was diagnosed with a tounge tie at birth but he does latch on properly when he wants it. Sometimes he sucks very noisily, a smacking sounds against the bottle but he does latch on when he is hungry.

Same things last night. He only ate 1oz at 4am and 1oz at 5am so definitely using bottle as a dummy I think. Then he has ate half oz at 7am this morning so don't know what's going on! His last proper bottle was at 2am!!!

I think he has got into a habit of needing bottle to get back to sleep but don't know how to solve this as it's 3 hrs since his last bottle I presume he's hungry then he only eats 1oz!! 

[FPT23]

Hi!! So sorry for ur troubles!

A 1/2 feed 4/5 feed is not uncommon at all. I BF myself and just treated all NWs as hunger so long as I didn't nurse TO sleep. KWIM? Keep in mind those growth spurts. Make sure your supply is up and enough during the day that he is not waking out of hunger at night.

I think at this age they are far too little to even consider some sort of consistency hun. Once it all seems right it will flip around the 4mth regression.

Hang in there and know this will all pass. I would consider figuring out any tummy problems too if needed!

Xo

[jessmum46]

I just noticed in your routine that some of the A times might be a touch long.  1h20-30 is average at 3 months, 1h45-2h at 4 months - for a well-rested LO.  After a disturbed night or short nap the A time can be shorter.  I wonder if just getting him down a touch sooner may help?  But yes I do agree that feeds at 12/1 and 4/5 are very normal for this age.  It honestly does sound like you are doing a great job but I would perhaps think about investigating the reflux side of things more.  Gaviscon helps some LOs but often makes others constipated or isn't sufficient treatment for anything but mild reflux.  There are other options out there and if he is very unsettled I would think that would be worth discussing with your doctor

[annakenrick]

Thanks for the advice ladies. He is getting a feed at 1030pm ish so a feed still at 1 and 4 is still common? He goes longer in the days than the nights currently. I have changed his feeds to 3.5 hrs in the day and he is taking much more but not affecting his Sleep at nights! Frustrating!! He was only takin 2oz a feed now 5!!

Also nap times when he has short naps in morning he has a 2hr / 2.5 h nap over lunch is that too long??

Thanks again I feel very alone and frustrated at the moment!!

[jessmum46]

Yes even with a 10/11pm feed or dreamfeed, two night feeds would be very common at this age how is his sleep between the feeds?  Is he settled otherwise?

I would say a 2-2.5h nap at lunch is fine if he has short naps the rest of the time x

[FPT23]

As Jessmum said, yes it is common especially during this time of various growth spurts.

I would try not to worry much. I know it's very frustrating and hard I just passed that phase myself! again.... ....and sleep is so wonky those first few months. It will settle then get crazy again around the 4mo regression.

Is he bottle fed or breast? Sorry if you addressed this and I missed it

IRT the nap, yes! That's common! My LO did that. One nap is always longer. Naps begin to adjust as their A times slowly increase. The way I tried to see thing is 0-3 months they "work" on their night sleep... day and night confusion seems to settle, NWs do become less than those first every 2 hr wakes (for some)...etc. 3-6 I feel they work on their day time sleep

Many hugs. This all seems very common. Frustrating most certainly... hang in there mom